Sasquatch- How Far Does It REALLY Travel

March 23, 2017

Excellent points SWWASAS. What is interesting too is that the two battlers left in separate directions. So was it a turf a skirmish? If it was then evidently it wasn't a serious one, at least serious enough to distract them from what I assume was the scent of a Human in the area? Of course walking off in different directions could also be a method of confusing a potential tracker into wondering which one to follow. I saw ducks do this on a lake when my dog was swimming toward them. He didn't know which one to pursue and swam around looking at both before swimming back to shore. His indecision was quite evident.

Also the report didn't go on to say that the battlers resumed their tussle somewhere else in the woods. That would be something I would think would have been heard a few minutes later deeper into the trees? Sort of like a BF vendetta to pursue unfinished business. Kinda makes me thing it was a sibling or similar family matter or just older juveniles flexing their muscles in a natural confrontation of sorts. All speculation of course and mostly based on typical animal behavior say for kittens and puppies. Can't say this might not have been any different but who knows really.

Edited March 23, 2017 by hiflier

March 23, 2017

SWWASAS, you said.."Humans must have done something very bad as a species to BF to get that sort of total avoidance behavior."

Many of us, and I think you included, assume this "something" was our attempting to exterminate them. Looks like we failed (so far), although we succeeded with plenty of other hominid species. I believe this adaptive pressure explains most of the BF behavior witnesses report. Our technology gave us the upper hand in so many evolutionary struggles. Now, we modern humans are like somebody born on third base and who assumes they've hit a triple. Who knows how close a struggle it really was (and probably still is)? We could have narrowly edged our extinct competition out, or it could have been a complete slaughter. At the least, we co-opted their food supply and out reproduced them. Dominating the competition at all costs is what we do. Look out you other monkey peoples, we are going to mess you up but good!

March 24, 2017

WSA you very well could be right. If we take archaeological reports from the Mississippi mount builder culture at face value, and hypothesize that the large skeletons found there were first of all BF and secondly were coexisting with humans during that period, one event happened which might explain BF behavior. The Mayan invasion is thought to be the end of the Mound Culture. One Mount culture burial site had large skeleton humanoids laid out with human size bodies in an apparent burial after a massive battle. It appeared that both were fighting on the same side with a common enemy. Mayans killed or captured enemies they encountered during their expansions. Since it is unlikely the small statured Mayans could have captured BF size tribes, what they could not kill outright, probably scattered to the winds avoiding the marauders. The Mound builders were studied by Smithsonian types and suddenly that research came to a screeching halt. The Mound Builders had an advanced new world culture, studied astronomy, predicted astronomical events, had pyramids, and one would think that North American Scientists would be interested in studying that. But it appears to me that something found shut that down. That Mound Culture flies in the face of the Manifest Destiny policy the Smithsonian supported, that Native Americans were nomadic hunter gatherers who had no real ties to real estate. Heaven forbid that the Mound Culture peoples rivaled the Mayans and perhaps the Egyptions much earlier. Throw in a giant people, religious beliefs at the time, especially within the Smithsonian staff, and you have something that the Smithsonian and the US Government did not want to be known. Archaeologists will travel half way around the world to study ancient civilizations in Egypt and ignore something similar in there very own back yard?. Why is that? Does study of the Mound Culture lead to BF? Is that the reason the Government refuses to acknowledge existence of BF? Does a big lie of Manifest Destiny in the 1800s lead to cover up since? Does present day discovery of BF lead backwards to the big lie and cover up in the 1800s? Would the public or scientists demand to know what happened to all the big skeletons? You can be sure they were examined and lab notes created at the time. Are they hidden away in the bowels of the Smithsonian? Or have they been destroyed?

All of that is my personal conjecture, based on history, and what is known. Did BF for long periods in time live in harmony with the Native American people? Did that change with the Mayan invasion, and the soon to fallow European migration of firearm toting white people? Did the human BF equation change from trade and cooperation to one of constant conflict with the European settlers? After all, the Native American culture was under the same pressures at the same time. Armed European origin settlers were hell bent on destroying the Native Americans too. Native Americans in most cases fought back. Was the BF solution just to fade back into the woods and disappear, upon seeing the Native American solution was not working? And then there was the introduction of disease with little or no immunity within the Native American peoples. BF had to have watched as whole Native American tribes died off and perhaps made the connection of white men and disease. If you were a sentient being and watched all of this happen over several hundred years, perhaps you would avoid contact with human beings at all cost too? Is their present recluse behavior simply a manifestation of their tribal oral history? I don't blame them if it is.

March 24, 2017

Not only all of that SWWASAS, but the whole idea of north American mega fauna and the Clovis Culture being wiped out by a meteor that had broken apart before impact has been all but stalled by science as well. Digs at sites in Florida have revealed not only the antiquity of the Clovis Culture in the southeastern U.S. preceding the Bering land bridge migration hypothesis but also showed residue of that impact. And that residue has been found at a number of sites across the Southern and Southwestern U.S. as well as elsewhere. If there was a Mayan invasion then the impact halted it- and everything else. If the invasion was after the fact then there weren't many Humans OR Bf's left to fight them off.

What the heck! I really get sick and tired of the whole hidden history thing. Yuch1 mentioned finding a whistleblower to settle the BF question but it would seem that there is a lot more to reveal than just BF history and existence, eh? Can't help but think the longer this is allowed to go on the more difficult or impossible it will be to pry out the truth. You have a lot of excellent questions and thoughts about this. It makes me wonder how many scientists and anthropologists have thee same questions but know better than to pursue them. I also wonder if any would ever get on a bandwagon to get at the bottom of things.

Edited March 24, 2017 by hiflier

March 24, 2017

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

Not only all of that SWWASAS, but the whole idea of north American mega fauna and the Clovis Culture being wiped out by a meteor that had broken apart before impact has been all but stalled by science as well. Digs at sites in Florida have revealed not only the antiquity of the Clovis Culture in the southeastern U.S. preceding the Bering land bridge migration hypothesis but also showed residue of that impact. And that residue has been found at a number of sites across the Southern and Southwestern U.S. as well as elsewhere.

If so, that would have only been in the last maybe 50,000 years ago. Would there have been enough time for the world to right itself during that brief amount of time, compared to that big one that supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs millions of years ago? Personally, I couldn't even entertain the idea that a meteor wiped out the clovis or cumberland people. The Cumberlands, were the southeastern version of the clovis people from out in western states. And most likely it seems, were here before the clovis people showed up. Also, since the discovery and naming of the clovis point, there have been many other points found since then that is considered older than the clovis. I have real examples of both clovis and cumberland fully fluted type of points found by myself along the ancient rivers in the states. The clovis is not a large spear point at all no more than a few inches long with flutes, the cumberland is a much longer and larger spear point and fluted also. Those people only followed the big rivers and hunted only the mastadons and mammoths, and other large animals of the time period. They didn't grow anything at all and moved in groups following the big animals on their routes probably supplementing their diet with nuts and berries along their routes when season.. These Paleo people, were much more equipped to dispatch a Bigfoot than the historic Indian tribes we have today.

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

If there was a Mayan invasion then the impact halted it- and everything else. If the invasion was after the fact then there weren't many Humans OR Bf's left to fight them off.

No impact halted the Mayan invasion. If an invasion is what you want to call it. Influence and trade is what I call it. This would have only happened really no more than about 1,500 years ago. No meteor has hit the earth in that time that did any damage.

When the Mayans came north into what is now the United States, it would have been during what is called the Mississippian Culture in the North American prehistoric Indian history, which ran from about 500 CE to 1500 CE. This is when certain aspects of several different prehistoric Indian groups looked like they started imitating Mayan style culture. The Mississippian Culture is the time period when a few of these regional places started making huge ceremonial centers with huge earthen mounds built for ceremonies. These were not burial mounds but mounds that ceremonial buildings set on. This is a time period which they actually learned a lot during a short period, so were most likely influenced by the Mayans or even the Olmecs back as far as 3,000 years ago, who were the predecessors of the Mayans. These cultures can be found at Moundville Archeological Park in Alabama, and the Ocmulgee National Monument in Georgia and of course the Cahokia Mounds State Park in Illinois.

They also still buried in mounds at this point and time. But some mounds aren't to be confused with other mounds that are much older. As a NPS Archeologist years ago I helped excavate much older mounds than the Mississippi period. These were pure burial mounds and used for nothing else, and some of them would be used for over a thousand years. Later Indians coming through 800 years later would have no clue who first built it, but would know people were buried in it and would just bury theirs on top of the ones already there, therefore making the mound much large and higher over the generations of use. I know where lots of burial mounds are right now just miles from my house, Some are in the water and can be seen when the water is drawn down and some in the fields on farms in the area. And some in peoples front yards. Never, ever once found any large skeletons in any mound we ever excavated. Thousands of them were dozed down for fill dirt back when they started building the highways across North America early part of last century. They didn't even bother looking at the bones or what was in the mounds, so wonder how many giant bones is laying under Route 66 going through Illinois and other highways of the south and midwest. One story I have about digging in one, we found a skeleton with what looked like an old revolutionary war soldiers uniform on. Complete with the military buttons still on it. This was a very out of the place mound and only about 10ft tall. On the very bank of the most dangerous part of the TN river. The rest of the burials in it, were almost 2,000 years old, dated by the pottery shards in it. So this person was buried in it only couple hundred years ago. Still kinda trip out about that one.

March 24, 2017

Yes, I was mistaken in saying the Mayans were that early. The impact wasn't like the K/T boundary 65.000,000 ago. It was only somewhere around 14-15 thousand years ago. New studies have shown too that the land bridge wasn't viable then because it couldn't support life- it was barren even if ice free. The populating of North America is now thought to have been by boat.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/genealogy/the-death-of-the-bering-strait-theory/

And no, agreed, the Clovis Culture was not the oldest but the quest for the discovery of their demise along with North American mega fauna has found strong evidence to support a North American fragmented impact as the cause of the extinctions. The chief signature of that impact is the residue of platinum in a layer at the dig sites and elsewhere suggesting the culprit came from space.

http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/spring-2017/article/discovery-of-widespread-platinum-may-help-solve-clovis-people-mystery

Your experiences in archeology are interesting to read, too. That revolutionary burial? Yeah, that would be a strange one to find in the middle of everything else that was Native American and so much older . Thanks for straightening out the Mayan/Olmec thing too. I've had a fascination with the Olmecs for some time and even spent some time with the Cascajal Block and the Tuxtla Statuette. It's cool stuff. Also pretty taken with Caral in Peru but there's so much in my own back yard that has more recently caught my attention in the last few years.

March 25, 2017

42 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Your experiences in archeology are interesting to read, too. That revolutionary burial? Yeah, that would be a strange one to find in the middle of everything else that was Native American and so much older . Thanks for straightening out the Mayan/Olmec thing too. I've had a fascination with the Olmecs for some time and even spent some time with the Cascajal Block and the Tuxtla Statuette. It's cool stuff. Also pretty taken with Caral in Peru but there's so much in my own back yard that has more recently caught my attention in the last few years

It was mostly likely a Cherokee individual or one from the Chickamauga tribe that had obtained a uniform at some point around the French and Indians wars or shortly after. Might have even fought for the french and it was a battle trophy. No telling, couldn't tell much by the uniform as it was in tatters and only pieces left. The buttons still had thread and cloth uniform pieces on them and gilt on the buttons. General uniform buttons with no designation so most like it was a state militia frock type coat. No telling why he wanted to be buried there knowing full well it was ancient even to the local tribes at that time and local tribes hadn't used mound type burials for hundreds of years. They had already been burying in graveyards by this time in the southern and northern states. The huge tree growing on top of it had to be least 200 years old itself. Had to have it cut down to work around the roots all through the mound.

March 25, 2017

That kind of detail in your description of the burial hints at an air of reverence. One can only imagine what led the individual to the conflict. Being a Native American burial area the uniform also may have been a trophy of sorts? This reminds me of the group of women who organized the intensive search using whatever writings and records they could find to locate Confederate soldier's gravesites- some only marked or found by the natural landmarks written in diaries and other papers, like letters etc.

I'm way off topic now here so I'll stop.

Edited March 25, 2017 by hiflier

March 25, 2017

There are no Clovis finds above the Younger Dryus event layer. The ice age was over, the climate warming, Clovis people were spreading out and thriving, and the Younger Dryus event plunged the climate into a mini ice age in a matter of a few years. The Clovis people disappeared or morphed into the NA in the SW. The Younger Dryus is dated at 12900 to 11700 years ago. Science of course fought that cause as an impact just like they fought the dinosaur killer event. In both cases they said, where is the crater? Oil exploration found the Yucatan crater, More recently a large crater has been found in Northern Canada. That is the likely crater of the Younger Dryus. This is classic main stream science at work. Gene Shoemaker claimed the meter crater in Arizona was an impact crater. Main stream science claimed it was volcanic and blamed the dinosaur extinction on the same thing. Shoemaker was ridiculed by science for both well into the 20th century. Then the comet hit Jupiter with the world watching in 1994. Giant Jupiter had huge scaring impacts that were visible in the gas giant's atmosphere for weeks. It was the equivalent of a wake up slap on the face for science. Yes meteors and comets still hit the planets and can do extinction level events. And yes main stream science was proven wrong once again. But while science may have its faults it does fix its errors, where as the accepted history of North America is simply a fabrication, that never seems to correct itself because of new discoveries. I do not recall celebration of Viking, Irish, or Minoan discovery day on our calendars. .

.

March 25, 2017

1 hour ago, SWWASAS said:

Clovis people were spreading out and thriving, and the Younger Dryus event plunged the climate into a mini ice age in a matter of a few years. The Clovis people disappeared or morphed into the NA in the SW. The Younger Dryus is dated at 12900 to 11700 years ago.

That impact event was also a bit more widespread as studies have strongly suggested the comet or meteor had issued fragments that hit in a number of places. One could certainly thing there was death in and closer to those smaller impacts as well not to mention the dust and fires that choked out life in a more immediate localized cataclysms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis

"The current impact hypothesis states that the air burst(s) or impact(s) of a swarm of carbonaceous chondrites or comet fragments set areas of the North American continent on fire, causing the extinction of most of the megafauna in North America and the demise of the North American Clovis culture after the last glacial period.^[9] The Younger Dryas ice age lasted for about 1,200 years before the climate warmed again. This swarm is hypothesized to have exploded above or possibly on the Laurentide Ice Sheet in the region of the Great Lakes, though no impact crater has been yet identified and no physical model by which a such a swarm could form or explode in the air has been proposed. Nevertheless, the proponents suggest that it would be physically possible for such an air burst to have been similar to, but orders of magnitude larger, than the Tunguska event of 1908. The hypothesis proposed that animal and human life in North America not directly killed by the blast or the resulting coast-to-coast wildfires would have likely starved on the burned surface of the continent.

"The evidence claimed for an impact event includes a charred carbon-rich layers of soil that have been found at some 50 Clovis sites across the continent. The proponents report that layers contain unusual materials (nanodiamonds, metallic microspherules, carbon spherules, magnetic spherules, iridium, platinum, charcoal, soot, and fullerenes enriched in helium-3) that they interpret as evidence of an impact event, at the very bottom of black mats of organic material that they say marks the beginning of the Younger Dryas, and is claimed that it cannot be explained by volcanic, anthropogenic, and other natural processes."

Edited March 25, 2017 by hiflier

March 25, 2017

Seems like I read someplace recently that they might have found the crater using satellite radar in Northern Canada. Area covered with ice and water most of the year. Part of extinction at the Clovis sites was that a formerly lush area had turned arid. Ice ages, no mater what the cause tie up tremendous amounts of water in the Northern latitudes and produce large spread arid areas with little rainfall South of that. There is evidence of horrific dust storms. Apparently the Clovis survivors headed South. The spear and arrow points of Navajo show some influence of Clovis. More interesting is that the Clovis points, themselves reflect Solutrean influence, and Solutrean points have been found in several locations on the Eastern seaboard. That culture existed 17,000 to 21,000 years ago in France. Did they beat the migration from Asia? Native Americans but just one migration of many.

Edited March 25, 2017 by SWWASAS

March 25, 2017

1 hour ago, SWWASAS said:

More interesting is that the Clovis points, themselves reflect Solutrean influence, and Solutrean points have been found in several locations on the Eastern seaboard. That culture existed 17,000 to 21,000 years ago in France. Did they beat the migration from Asia? Native Americans but just one migration of many.

There surely is an interesting connection there. Marine travel may have been more of an activity than one thought. Ocean currents do seem to favor that kind of migration even if it was initially accidental. One could imaging groups with a rich experience eating fish along seacoasts would be well equipped to handle such voyages although fresh water other than rain would be against such excursions. Just another fascinating subject to invest some time into :smoke:

Edited March 25, 2017 by hiflier

March 25, 2017

3 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

Seems like I read someplace recently that they might have found the crater using satellite radar in Northern Canada. Area covered with ice and water most of the year. Part of extinction at the Clovis sites was that a formerly lush area had turned arid. Ice ages, no mater what the cause tie up tremendous amounts of water in the Northern latitudes and produce large spread arid areas with little rainfall South of that. There is evidence of horrific dust storms. Apparently the Clovis survivors headed South. The spear and arrow points of Navajo show some influence of Clovis. More interesting is that the Clovis points, themselves reflect Solutrean influence, and Solutrean points have been found in several locations on the Eastern seaboard. That culture existed 17,000 to 21,000 years ago in France. Did they beat the migration from Asia? Native Americans but just one migration of many.

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Edited March 25, 2017 by MikeZimmer

April 19, 2017

To get back to the original question. The lack of trail camera evidence points to low population densities combined with small home ranges and short distance daily movment. If you move frequently for large distances over a large area then the probability of getting your photo taken by a trail camera goes way up. This seems to be contrary to what most people believe/speculate about bigfoot and is definitely not the norm for a large mammal in general. So that would indicate a stable, plentiful food supply in the home range.

April 19, 2017

^^^^ That is likely partially true. I think it overlooks a couple things. One may just be specific to my location, the other to trail cams in general.

1) The concept of home range does not apply here, it's not a tiny little space. The area where I have the most activity in late summer is under 7 - 10 feet of snow right now, maybe more. There are no deer, no bear, no elk. Nothing really for a bigfoot to eat, not on an appropriate scale. There are likely a few coyotes and bobcats, cougar, and wolves passing through and there may be enough small mammals like rabbits for snacks to tide them over. They're not living there but the snow has settled enough now to be dense enough to support their weight. Not a bigfoot. Probably not a person quite yet, not without snow shoes, but as spring progresses, the snow pack will settle, get denser, ice up, and eventually we'll be able to walk on top of it. If I'm correct calculating that bigfoot has about 4x the weight per square inch of foot, it may never support a bigfoot's weight, they have to step clear through to the ground. Anyway, home range varies seasonally and likely is 30 or more miles across. That's how far you have to go to reach valley bottom where the food critters spend the winter.

2) Regarding trail cameras, I've been pondering what I've observed so far. I don't think most of those cameras out there have any benefit to the search for bigfoot. The bigfoot tracks I've found are not precisely where I'd aim the cameras intending to get pictures of normal game animals like deer, bear, cougar, and elk. This suggests to me that the more skilled the camera operator is regarding hunting normal critters, the less likely that person is to get a bigfoot on camera on accident, such a person has a better chance of getting a bigfoot picture but only if that's specifically what they're trying to do. How many of the millions of trail cams out there are actually targeting bigfoot?

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