Neanderthal DNA gets more complicated...

[Guest Cricket]

59 minutes ago, LeafTalker said:

Microencephaly (or microcephaly) is associated with dwarfism, not with unusual height and unusually long arms and legs. The individual in that film clearly did not have dwarfism in his portfolio.

 

He's an interesting figure.

 

Thanks again for finding that video, ioyza! 

 

We need a neurologist or endocrinologist to weigh in on this one!  I watched both the long and short versions of the video several times, and it just looked to me when in profile view that he had about a 50% reduction in normal skull/brain size.  But it's hard to tell about anything because of the sporadic nature of the film and he was often moving around.  Standing, he looked tall and lanky, but sitting next to the woman I'm assuming was his mother, his height wasn't quite as noticeable. 

[JDL]

This is a relatively recent claim, and the location of this person's body is likely known.  It would be easy enough to obtain DNA and analyze it, settling the matter.

 

Given the sensational aspect of the claim, I suspect this has already been done by some opportunistic party.  Since nobody has trumpeted conclusive proof of a hybrid, he probably was not.

[LeafTalker]

8 hours ago, JDL said:

This is a relatively recent claim, and the location of this person's body is likely known.  It would be easy enough to obtain DNA and analyze it, settling the matter.

You would think so, wouldn't you? But as you've pointed out, our national treasure store of information, the Smithsonian, won't even acknowledge it has what it has in its collection, much less exhibit or study any of it.

 

Why would the Chinese be any different?

 

 

[LeafTalker]

10 hours ago, Cricket said:

 

We need a neurologist or endocrinologist to weigh in on this one!  I watched both the long and short versions of the video several times, and it just looked to me when in profile view that he had about a 50% reduction in normal skull/brain size.  But it's hard to tell about anything because of the sporadic nature of the film and he was often moving around.  Standing, he looked tall and lanky, but sitting next to the woman I'm assuming was his mother, his height wasn't quite as noticeable. 

Sorry, Cricket, meant to respond to this, too.... I agree, it was difficult to gauge his real height, at least from what I saw (I didn't watch the full-length piece), because he was sitting down when there was another person in the shot (I guess his mother, also sitting down), and he didn't look that different from her. The length of his limbs was quite extraordinary, though; I didn't feel I needed to see anyone else on screen to tell that was the case.

 

What's also interesting (to me) is that Patrick was only 5 foot 4 inches tall. (His mother, according to what I presume was one of the informants mentioned in the Bigfoot Encounters article, was very small.) So enormous height alone doth not a BF make. But what Patrick DID have in common with the man from China were the long arms (and there may have been other similarities; I forget some of the details now).

 

I also meant to point out earlier that eyewitness reports about facial features, etc., do vary quite a bit. Some have reported that the individual they saw had an "ape-like" nose; others report seeing a "human" nose. Some report seeing cone-shaped heads, where others report seeing rounder heads. So even with the little we actually know, we still know there's a lot of variation in the appearance of people who could be said to be BF.

 

So to attempt to rule out the possibility of mixed parentage based on the absence (or presence) of any single feature is -- well, it doesn't make any sense to do that, in my view.

 

 

[SWWASAS]

I think China still has the one child law.     So if the woman already had a child she might have been inclined to make up a story about where the second one came from,   especially if it required medical attention at times.     Sure wish someone had DNA tested the individual.   At least that would point to his condition.       My worry is that someplace out there,  the successors to our species are quietly spreading out among us.       Just ask Neanderthal how that worked 

 out for them.     

Edited July 19, 2017 by SWWASAS

[Guest Cricket]

2 hours ago, LeafTalker said:

Sorry, Cricket, meant to respond to this, too.... I agree, it was difficult to gauge his real height, at least from what I saw (I didn't watch the full-length piece), because he was sitting down when there was another person in the shot (I guess his mother, also sitting down), and he didn't look that different from her. The length of his limbs was quite extraordinary, though; I didn't feel I needed to see anyone else on screen to tell that was the case.

 

What's also interesting (to me) is that Patrick was only 5 foot 4 inches tall. (His mother, according to what I presume was one of the informants mentioned in the Bigfoot Encounters article, was very small.) So enormous height alone doth not a BF make. But what Patrick DID have in common with the man from China were the long arms (and there may have been other similarities; I forget some of the details now).

 

I also meant to point out earlier that eyewitness reports about facial features, etc., do vary quite a bit. Some have reported that the individual they saw had an "ape-like" nose; others report seeing a "human" nose. Some report seeing cone-shaped heads, where others report seeing rounder heads. So even with the little we actually know, we still know there's a lot of variation in the appearance of people who could be said to be BF.

 

So to attempt to rule out the possibility of mixed parentage based on the absence (or presence) of any single feature is -- well, it doesn't make any sense to do that, in my view.

 

 

 

Variation is something one really needs to quantify to assess.  We just can't trust eyeballing it.  Who knows whether the guy in the video was within the range of variation for humans, what his intermembral index would be, and how that would compare to the range for all modern humans, for all hominins, etc., etc.  A video such as this is intriguing but hard to evaluate.  The definitive evidence would of course be DNA.  It looked in the long video that they were exhuming something, but it cut away and didn't show exactly what they were doing.  Maybe someone will come along on this forum who understands Chinese and can fill in any additional info.

[norseman]

 

[southernyahoo]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 0:29 PM, norseman said:

We encourage debate here at the BFF, so long as people remain civil and do not make it personal. I think I'm well within those lines.

 

I find the Bigfoot hybrid preposterous. Looking at Patty as a hybrid and then imaging a human mating with something much more archaic than Patty to create Patty? Yah....I'd say that hypothesis is problematic.

 

Even more problematic is that the hybrid hypothesis guts what little evidence we do have about Bigfoot. Meldrum postulates Bigfoot has a much more ape like foot and leaves a "mid tarsal break". Well.....um if Bigfoot is basically human? We have a problem. Night Vision? 8 ft tall and 800 lbs? Infrasound? I won't even go further because it gets weird.

 

People are frustrated with DNA results.....I get that. But you cannot give a species a ton of non human physical attributes and still call it human. It doesn't work that way in nature.

 

You still ignore all the traits that are the same as human. It's those that make it hominin for me, because they are hominin exclusive. You can't cherry pick the evidence and claim to have a valid opinion. Humans have flexible feet, we don't know how good their vision is at night, we've never put one on a scale or measured ones height. Unknown ape DNA would have turned up by now, it can't be 800 lbs and 8ft tall and Non-human but never leave the proof. It can however be human and fool you with it's cover.( books and covers.) We don't have Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA , X chromosome DNA, or Y chromosome DNA, but most europeans have Nuclear trace from them. That doesn't mean we were not compatible, it more likely means the maternal AND paternal lineages washed out from natural selection. Neanderthals and hybrid offspring could have had problems socially within our clans and bore progressively fewer children. You know you would choose Bo Derek over that lady you posted above.  

[norseman]

Baloney.

 

Non human traits and physical attributes or for that matter non genus Homo traits or physical attributes put it way way outside our compatibility range....

 

And Id take that lady any day over Patty.....any day. And yet we are seperate species? Neanderthal vs Human.

 

And yet you want me to believe Patty and I are the same species? LOL.

[southernyahoo]

You are making my point, but you can't see that a Male Neanderthal or Sasquatch might feel the same as you do towards modern human females. Chimps are known for this too, so remove those blinders. 

[norseman]

Sure. A captive male chimp that only has contact with female humans shows a sexual interest....big deal. It happens with all sorts of animals.

 

In the wild where males and females of the same species have reproductive access to each other? This rarely happens. And hybridized off spring? Even more rare....

 

 

[bipedalist]

Not so much about DNA but the recent ingenuity of Neanderthal in using adhesives hundreds of thousands of years ago that required cooking is interesting. 

 

So rather than being dumb glue-sniffers they were actively creating the earlier version of gorilla glue called neanderglue.

 

I like this quote:  The lesson from this find: Don't get stuck on looks.

 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/experiments-show-how-neanderthals-made-first-glue-180964718/

Edited September 3, 2017 by bipedalist

[southernyahoo]

On the contrary Norseman,  this link explains that human intrusion into their habitat , and human female vulnerability are more predominant factors. The truth is that great ape males including other hominins WILL TRY IT, and if there is enough compatibility, there will be offspring.

 

 https://books.google.com/books?id=afADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT29&lpg=PT29&dq=chimp+rapes+woman&source=bl&ots=gEQKDDoWoT&sig=idmoCpG60wly2VI__mQXTPIs0RI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR46OTyovWAhUo6oMKHeDLDWwQ6AEIXzAI#v=onepage&q=chimp rapes woman&f=false

[SWWASAS]

One would think likewise that a robust Neanderthal would easily overpower a human woman out alone gathering food.   At that point in time both human males and females were much smaller than present humans.  

[norseman]

4 hours ago, southernyahoo said:

On the contrary Norseman,  this link explains that human intrusion into their habitat , and human female vulnerability are more predominant factors. The truth is that great ape males including other hominins WILL TRY IT, and if there is enough compatibility, there will be offspring.

 

 https://books.google.com/books?id=afADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT29&lpg=PT29&dq=chimp+rapes+woman&source=bl&ots=gEQKDDoWoT&sig=idmoCpG60wly2VI__mQXTPIs0RI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR46OTyovWAhUo6oMKHeDLDWwQ6AEIXzAI#v=onepage&q=chimp rapes woman&f=false

 

A few will try it, absolutely.

 

Non african humans are what 4-8% Neanderthal?

 

Most of them will leave it alone and stick with their own kind.