Native American understandings

[WSA]

My theory has long been the prehistoric Indians of NA were the evolutionary pressure that put BF on the adaptive path to avoiding H.sapiens as a matter of instinct.  Seeing as we probably exterminated vast numbers of "others" in our history, this was a good adaptive strategy. It permitted them to evolve out of harm's way, but necessarily resulted in their other furtive behaviors.  It is also somewhat evident this adaptation is starting to become less and less useful to them and some of their secretive ways might be changing.

[SWWASAS]

1 hour ago, WSA said:

My theory has long been the prehistoric Indians of NA were the evolutionary pressure that put BF on the adaptive path to avoiding H.sapiens as a matter of instinct.  Seeing as we probably exterminated vast numbers of "others" in our history, this was a good adaptive strategy. It permitted them to evolve out of harm's way, but necessarily resulted in their other furtive behaviors.  It is also somewhat evident this adaptation is starting to become less and less useful to them and some of their secretive ways might be changing.

Given lack of evidence to the otherwise,  it is my guess that BF migrated to NA at the same time humans did.   But as long as there was contact, no matter where contact started,   there most likely was strife.   Certainly there is lack of skeletal evidence that BF pre-existed the Native Americans (I don't like that term) or evolved on this continent.     Since both humans and BF likely came out of NE Asia and crossed the Bearing Land bridge,   they might have been in conflict in Asia for a very long time too.    For all we know they got the idea to migrate from each other.      In this area we do not celebrate Columbus day because he is hated, but we celebrate indigenous peoples day.      There are no indigenous humans in the Americas.     Everyone migrated here, some just came sooner than others.    Columbus was actually one of the later Europeans to "discover" America.    

[JDL]

I've related this on other threads, but I've seen (and cannot to this date relocate) a write up of oral history from an Eastern US tribe in which the great grandfather of the author, a chief who had been born before 1900, stated that bigfoot were much more plentiful before Europeans arrived.  According to him, they were hit even harder by European diseases than the human Native Americans were.  So hard, that for several generations the Native Americans thought that the Bigfoot had been completely wiped out.

 

Given the modern reports of bigfoot scavenging from dumps, dumpsters, and human habitations, I would assume that the contemporary bigfoot population is now relatively resistant to common human diseases, as are contemporary Native Americans.

[SWWASAS]

It could be that the European disease thing is part of the BF reclusive nature.     In reality the NA who live on both coasts had some exposure to European or Asian explorers prior to Columbus.  So that contact meant some antibodies may have been present and indeed NA could have had more resistance than BF living in the interior.     I have good documentation that my great grandfather was half NA.  Family records and that sort of thing.    He served as an Indian Scout for the US Army in Arizona.    But DNA testing does not show that.       Early American settlers talked of a tribe in the NE, where my great grandfather came from,  where the NA had reddish hair and beards.    I wonder if my great grandfather was actually a very early European settler that came well before Columbus and lived in a tribal situation before Columbus.    I have what is described as ancient Irish DNA markers.    That sort of thing really messes up the out of Asia migration theories.   

[wiiawiwb]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:19 AM, SWWASAS said:

 There are no indigenous humans in the Americas.     Everyone migrated here, some just came sooner than others.    Columbus was actually one of the later Europeans to "discover" America.    

 

That is exactly correct.  Some people have this romantic notion that Indians were always here in America. Their lineage and DNA has never known another soil.

 

I'm native American even though there isn't a drop of Indian blood in me. 

 

It reminds me of The Honeymooners.   Ralph: “What do you know about golf?” Ed: “I’ve been working in the sewer for ten years. If that don’t qualify me as an expert on holes, I give up.”

[bipedalist]

Well I wonder if my 1/128th to 1/64th Cherokee blood helped me any  the evening of my signting of multiples. 

 

I would think not, but I would think my intimate familiarity with a patch of woods for 25 or more years and what I did or didn't do in that patch of woods did. 

 

It is possible I have a little Mohican in me too but again, I defer to the DNA and romantics. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by bipedalist

[Rockape]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:15 AM, SWWASAS said:

I have good documentation that my great grandfather was half NA.  Family records and that sort of thing.    He served as an Indian Scout for the US Army in Arizona.    But DNA testing does not show that.       Early American settlers talked of a tribe in the NE, where my great grandfather came from,  where the NA had reddish hair and beards.  

 

Many whites lived as members of a tribe, was a common thing since whites first came here. So your Grandfather might have been a bona fide tribal member, considered an Indian, but still white.

 

Interesting story, When the the Lewis And Clark expedition first made contact with the Mandan tribe, they believed it was the first time white men had been in that area, the Mandan confirmed to them they were the first white men hey had met. Lewis and Clark were amazed that several members of the tribe looked white, they had red or blond hair, fair skin, blue or green eyes.

 

It caused quite a stir in the scientific community when the expedition was over and their find announced. Many believed the Mandan were the remnants of one of the "Lost Tribes of Israel", or perhaps the Roanoak colony. It turned out, French trappers had been living with the Mandan for at least 50 years before Lewis and Clark came along. That area was their best fur trapping ground and they had not told anyone back east about it. It was their children Lewis and Clark had seen.

 

 

3 hours ago, bipedalist said:

Well I wonder if my 1/128th to 1/64th Cherokee blood helped me any  the evening of my signting of multiples.

 

Meh, I'm over half Choctaw and it never helped me see one.

On 10/12/2017 at 2:11 PM, wiiawiwb said:

 

I'm native American even though there isn't a drop of Indian blood in me.

 

Anyone born here in Native American, I prefer American Indian.

[wiiawiwb]

Rock...that works!

[Night Walker]

I wish, I wish, I wish. I wish all the people that claim to actually “see” Bigfoots (and other anomalous cryptids) while out, could do a little research-- on altered states. Because some of the stories are extremely convincing and I don’t like to think people deliberately lie about something so profound. Then, maybe a good number of folks could admit, or realize, they're having *involuntary* visionary experiences “most” of the time and misidentifying the “rest” of the time. These people are interacting with nature in such an intimate way, they're perhaps slipping into altered states by natural means. And when this happens, it can appear as real as REAL can be…

 

In today’s world, it is painful to think one is “crazy.” The mind will do anything to tell you, you are not. So, I will be sure to tell you “you are *not* crazy, you saw what you saw.” But it wasn’t exactly what you think, perhaps. And the definition of crazy is a slippery slope when you’re speaking of something that is natural to all humans; the visionary, or altered state. What’s crazy is that you are not taught about it, or have not thought about it, or have not taken the time to learn about it, and at the very least have not even explored the possibility. Because you feel it’s crazy to just “see things.” Well, it’s not.

Our ancestors looked at Bigfoot as walking in "two worlds; sometimes seen, sometimes not seen, but always heard or felt." That should be the first clue in understanding what their stories were about; spirits. But what is a spirit? Is it our own subconscious talking to us? Or is it an autonomous and conscious energy form? Personally, I don’t care. Many of us see spirituals and for many *ancient* indigenous persons, Bigfoot falls into that category flat out…

 

The spirit world was accepted and still is-- as real as the physical is-- to indigenous persons. It was thought that the two worlds were just two sides of the same coin. So, when the ancestors spoke of it, they made no distinction between the two realities. They didn't begin the stories with "ok, I had this vision while in an altered state..." They just told the story as they saw it; it was real to them. Today, it is not acceptable to see the two worlds as one; inner and ordinary. We understand the differences. So when all those extremely well-known, and very intelligent people speak of interacting with what is termed “woo” Bigfoot, they're having visionary experiences but they don't man up and say it out loud, for some reason. Yet, they know what they’re experiencing is “visionary.” Who would believe that a 1000 lb creature which speaks telepathically, transforms into trees and teleports, actually exists in ordinary reality? Not you; not me. And I am pretty sure even “they” don’t believe it. To tell you, sadly, would end their notoriety and small pocket of fame.
Even more sad is their next step; to have conferences based on their experiences or better, based on themselves, and how awesome they are that they can do these things or see these things or hear these things. They speak of "downloads" and "mind speak” and “cloaking” and disappearing Cryptids and “talking orbs." These are all visionary and altered state experiences. They will tell you, they are special ambassadors to the “other worlds.” And that they are very important people. When they are simply experiencing something many do on purpose and on a daily basis.

For thousands of years people did this and much better than they do. They’re called Medicine People. For Medicine People, it’s just another day at the office. No need for conferences and youtube videos with “messages for humanity.” Any Medicine Person worth their salt knew, these experiences are personal, private and any messages were always for the individual not the world. And those messages came from the individual’s subconscious mixing with nature. To be plain, these people are speaking with themselves, or the higher consciousness of themselves. The wrong is, they're giving this information, meant for them alone, to you. We all know great and deep things; accessing those things is the trick. But again, it’s a knowledge you have and is meant for you alone—by traditional understanding. But, I should say this: Medicine People feel that “the spirits need us” as much as we need them. Translated, this means the human mind is key to producing the possibility of spirits (or Bigfoot) projecting into our reality. Is it partly physical? Personally, I don’t care what it is, or is not. I just know, I must be in an altered state to interact with the spiritual—as all my ancestors, and yours, did.

So, tell me you've seen one. Tell me they're real. Tell me you absolutely believe what you saw was physical. And I will tell you it is just a belief; belief is a choice. Belief in Bigfoot is one of the most difficult choices you can make to defend on either side of the spectrum. Show me your photos. I will say the same: Your blurry photos are just blurry photos you choose to believe are physical manifestations. Nature can manifest things that look exactly like common life forms, including humans, in foliage, rocks, in water. Nature repeats patterns in stunning fashion; stunning, stunning spectacular fashion.

And yet for some us, Bigfoot or things related, are beautiful visionary experiences even if not "scientific things." For some us, we are “aware” it is visionary and still we value it. We are not crazy; we are humans having a universal human experience. We learn about “ourselves” from the experience, if we’re paying attention. Bigfoot, Dogman all the way to the gods and spirits and therianthropes and anthromorphs—visionary creatures in our experiences always come with a lesson; a metaphoric lesson. They ask us to look inside ourselves. Bigfoot is a mythical creature based on “real” visionary experiences; a universal symbol of our ancient selves and our desire to reconnect with nature once again. Because to disconnect from nature is unnatural. On some level, everyone knows this. On some level, everyone wants to reconnect. On some level, everyone wants to know the beast within; our primal selves. For me, the experiences I have are real "for me." They bring me joy; they make me a better person.

Being visionary in nature does not mean you're crazy. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Hell, all people are visionary; you dream don't you? And some people dream while awake. There is something called lucid dreaming and there is another thing called lucid visionary states. You are conscious, awake, walking out in nature and you see the extraordinary—you are consciously walking an alert dream in ordinary reality. It is well worth the training to achieve this state. But it is my “belief” that many of you are quite gifted already. It is my belief that you have achieved what “we” take an entire lifetime to achieve, with no effort what-so-ever. If only you knew what a gift that is. We are all vulnerable to the visionary state (the altered state); every single one of us…
 

Alyssa Adisi Waya Alexandria (Cherokee, Aniyunwiya by blood, and Yurok Pulikla by family ties.)
Full article - https://www.spotsofthefawn.com/spotsofthefawnblog/2017/10/17/bigfoot-real-and-unreal

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 3, 2017 by Night Walker

[MIB]

1 hour ago, Night Walker said:

Thoughts?

 

It seems consistent with SOME Native American beliefs.  I have no problem with that.   However, it's not the whole answer.  As much as folks .. maybe like you, or maybe not .. might wish, what I saw was real.  Process this: delusions and illusions do not leave castable footprints nor produce recordable vocalizations.   While there is no proof they are "bigfoot" since we lack proof of bigfoot, **something** made them and it is not any known animal.    Something "unknown" **is** out there.   That is fact.  You, or others, may deny, but will be wrong if you do.

 

MIB

[bipedalist]

Listen, I am a descendant of a Cherokee beloved woman, I do not think it gives me any more insight into nocturnal sighting of multiples than the next bloke. 

 

If it did, I certainly feel favored.  It was my hard work in doing the footwork, the recordings and being in the right place at the right time asking the right questions that made it work for me. 

 

Having said that I feel I have experienced alot more than my friend MIB in the pursuit.  

[norseman]

On 11/3/2017 at 3:50 PM, Night Walker said:

I wish, I wish, I wish. I wish all the people that claim to actually “see” Bigfoots (and other anomalous cryptids) while out, could do a little research-- on altered states. Because some of the stories are extremely convincing and I don’t like to think people deliberately lie about something so profound. Then, maybe a good number of folks could admit, or realize, they're having *involuntary* visionary experiences “most” of the time and misidentifying the “rest” of the time. These people are interacting with nature in such an intimate way, they're perhaps slipping into altered states by natural means. And when this happens, it can appear as real as REAL can be…

 

In today’s world, it is painful to think one is “crazy.” The mind will do anything to tell you, you are not. So, I will be sure to tell you “you are *not* crazy, you saw what you saw.” But it wasn’t exactly what you think, perhaps. And the definition of crazy is a slippery slope when you’re speaking of something that is natural to all humans; the visionary, or altered state. What’s crazy is that you are not taught about it, or have not thought about it, or have not taken the time to learn about it, and at the very least have not even explored the possibility. Because you feel it’s crazy to just “see things.” Well, it’s not.

Our ancestors looked at Bigfoot as walking in "two worlds; sometimes seen, sometimes not seen, but always heard or felt." That should be the first clue in understanding what their stories were about; spirits. But what is a spirit? Is it our own subconscious talking to us? Or is it an autonomous and conscious energy form? Personally, I don’t care. Many of us see spirituals and for many *ancient* indigenous persons, Bigfoot falls into that category flat out…

 

The spirit world was accepted and still is-- as real as the physical is-- to indigenous persons. It was thought that the two worlds were just two sides of the same coin. So, when the ancestors spoke of it, they made no distinction between the two realities. They didn't begin the stories with "ok, I had this vision while in an altered state..." They just told the story as they saw it; it was real to them. Today, it is not acceptable to see the two worlds as one; inner and ordinary. We understand the differences. So when all those extremely well-known, and very intelligent people speak of interacting with what is termed “woo” Bigfoot, they're having visionary experiences but they don't man up and say it out loud, for some reason. Yet, they know what they’re experiencing is “visionary.” Who would believe that a 1000 lb creature which speaks telepathically, transforms into trees and teleports, actually exists in ordinary reality? Not you; not me. And I am pretty sure even “they” don’t believe it. To tell you, sadly, would end their notoriety and small pocket of fame.
Even more sad is their next step; to have conferences based on their experiences or better, based on themselves, and how awesome they are that they can do these things or see these things or hear these things. They speak of "downloads" and "mind speak” and “cloaking” and disappearing Cryptids and “talking orbs." These are all visionary and altered state experiences. They will tell you, they are special ambassadors to the “other worlds.” And that they are very important people. When they are simply experiencing something many do on purpose and on a daily basis.

For thousands of years people did this and much better than they do. They’re called Medicine People. For Medicine People, it’s just another day at the office. No need for conferences and youtube videos with “messages for humanity.” Any Medicine Person worth their salt knew, these experiences are personal, private and any messages were always for the individual not the world. And those messages came from the individual’s subconscious mixing with nature. To be plain, these people are speaking with themselves, or the higher consciousness of themselves. The wrong is, they're giving this information, meant for them alone, to you. We all know great and deep things; accessing those things is the trick. But again, it’s a knowledge you have and is meant for you alone—by traditional understanding. But, I should say this: Medicine People feel that “the spirits need us” as much as we need them. Translated, this means the human mind is key to producing the possibility of spirits (or Bigfoot) projecting into our reality. Is it partly physical? Personally, I don’t care what it is, or is not. I just know, I must be in an altered state to interact with the spiritual—as all my ancestors, and yours, did.

So, tell me you've seen one. Tell me they're real. Tell me you absolutely believe what you saw was physical. And I will tell you it is just a belief; belief is a choice. Belief in Bigfoot is one of the most difficult choices you can make to defend on either side of the spectrum. Show me your photos. I will say the same: Your blurry photos are just blurry photos you choose to believe are physical manifestations. Nature can manifest things that look exactly like common life forms, including humans, in foliage, rocks, in water. Nature repeats patterns in stunning fashion; stunning, stunning spectacular fashion.

And yet for some us, Bigfoot or things related, are beautiful visionary experiences even if not "scientific things." For some us, we are “aware” it is visionary and still we value it. We are not crazy; we are humans having a universal human experience. We learn about “ourselves” from the experience, if we’re paying attention. Bigfoot, Dogman all the way to the gods and spirits and therianthropes and anthromorphs—visionary creatures in our experiences always come with a lesson; a metaphoric lesson. They ask us to look inside ourselves. Bigfoot is a mythical creature based on “real” visionary experiences; a universal symbol of our ancient selves and our desire to reconnect with nature once again. Because to disconnect from nature is unnatural. On some level, everyone knows this. On some level, everyone wants to reconnect. On some level, everyone wants to know the beast within; our primal selves. For me, the experiences I have are real "for me." They bring me joy; they make me a better person.

Being visionary in nature does not mean you're crazy. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Hell, all people are visionary; you dream don't you? And some people dream while awake. There is something called lucid dreaming and there is another thing called lucid visionary states. You are conscious, awake, walking out in nature and you see the extraordinary—you are consciously walking an alert dream in ordinary reality. It is well worth the training to achieve this state. But it is my “belief” that many of you are quite gifted already. It is my belief that you have achieved what “we” take an entire lifetime to achieve, with no effort what-so-ever. If only you knew what a gift that is. We are all vulnerable to the visionary state (the altered state); every single one of us…
 

Alyssa Adisi Waya Alexandria (Cherokee, Aniyunwiya by blood, and Yurok Pulikla by family ties.)
Full article - https://www.spotsofthefawn.com/spotsofthefawnblog/2017/10/17/bigfoot-real-and-unreal

 

Thoughts?

 

I think its a load of crap sold to people by skeptics.

 

Do people misidentify animals? Sure.

 

Do they lie or hoax others? Absolutely.

 

Do people walk around in the woods hallicinating cryptic animals into existence? Heck no. Not without the help of magic shrooms!

 

Humans....despite the opinion of the skeptical inquirer are excellent at observation. Hunters must discern age, sex and species of an animal in mere seconds. And then judge range, wind, obstacles and inclination and put a bullet in the vitals.....

 

So I do not find your post credible..... sorry.

[SWWASAS]

I have yet to have it explained to me how an encounter that is the result of altered states, imagination, or hallucination can at the same time leave large footprints.     While altered states, imagination, and hallucination is always at play in the human mind, when an event leaves physical traces like footprints,  or broken off trees intended to frighten off the human,   only a ardent skeptic can conclude it is not a physical event.     We have many many sighting reports which followup investigation reveals footprints where the BF was seen walking.     Those who think BF a product of a imaginative mind have to also conclude that the human involved is capable of telekinesis for that imagination to create physical footprints at the same time.    If such people exist,  I would like an introduction and a trip to a casino roulette table to cash in.      

Edited November 6, 2017 by SWWASAS

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

The usual explanation by “skeptics” is that alleged sasquatch footprints/tracks are either hoaxed or created by mundane animals. Based on my own research, those two explanations don’t always work well, as the circumstances of some of the finds, and the qualities of some of the tracks greatly reduce the likelihood of a hoax. Ironically, such notable details are biasedly overlooked by many so-called “skeptics” in favor of their personally under-questioned theory that the phenomenon is “entirely social”.

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by OntarioSquatch

[PBeaton]

 

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:11 PM, wiiawiwb said:

 

That is exactly correct.  Some people have this romantic notion that Indians were always here in America. Their lineage and DNA has never known another soil.

 

I'm native American even though there isn't a drop of Indian blood in me. 

 

It reminds me of The Honeymooners.   Ralph: “What do you know about golf?” Ed: “I’ve been working in the sewer for ten years. If that don’t qualify me as an expert on holes, I give up.”

wiiawiwb,

 

In this romantic notion, who are the first recognized peoples of north America ? 

 

" I'm Native American even though there isn't a drop of Indian blood in me." What nationality are your parents ? I ask, because I am Native American, my Mother as a child was put in the Residential Schools, as was her sister an brother. If you think bein' Native is some BS, you are mistaken !  So do tell, how are you Native ?

 

So...I'll ask...how do you figure you are Native wiiawb...without a drop of Native blood in you ? 

 

Pat...

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:58 PM, norseman said:

I dont agree with some modern Indian practices like gill netting or shooting 10 deer when you only need 2.

norseman,

 

I myself have been grateful for those who net salmon out here, an I guarantee if someone nails 10 deer, it gets shared, startin' with the elders or those in need. Those who are successful , share, I reckon you would do the same norseman, it is the ol' school way.

 

Pat...