Ketchum DNA report revisited

[bipedalist]

These consultants couldn't be duped, they were dropped into  the process as lab tech kind of people not consultants.

 

Though they may have been added as coauthors I hesitate to call them that based on their collaborative input into conclusions, discussion short of the lab analysis. 

 

Hair morphology is difficult enough for the FBI to use when tested, it is her word and the techs word.  

 

Sykes would have busted this thing wide open long ago if it came down to hair only.   

 

His conslusion, prehistoric polar bear or cave bear or some such thing.....    

 

Her condlusion, glorified lemur with one-stranded DNA and a bunch of other stuff stuck to it?  

Edited October 22, 2017 by bipedalist

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

So far, and I'll say it again, SO FAR deception and fraud do not appear to be a reality. Mis-interpreting the results? Sure I can see that but anything else implies pre-meditated illegal intent and that's what I don't see. If that was the case she would have been deep in litigation and retribution by now. There's no hint of any of that and I truly think her own 'team' would have been the first ones to turn on her once they understood her supposed deception. Does anyone disagree with this?

 

Her team did turn on her. Her publicist Sally Ramy, who worked very closely with her left her, and publically announced that Hersom should take legal action against her. Luckily for Melba, Wally Hersom doesn’t have the knowledge required to properly understand the study, so Melba was never in any risk. He’s also an exceptionally kind person, which Melba was aware of as well.

 

Quote

Mis-interpreting the results? Sure I can see that but anything else implies pre-meditated illegal intent and that's what I don't see.

 

The DNA sequences that she provided serve as good indicator of it for reasons I’ve mentioned on the previous page

[hiflier]

37 minutes ago, Sasfooty said:

It appears that in order to qualify as unbiased, Hiflier is expected to concur & conform with the lynch mob. 

 

Something about that expectation seems a little.....biased.

 

What is supposed to be unbiased is science which translates for the most part as mainstream science. But the March, 2009 memo that Branco brought forth says that science should police itself and make sure that all scientific endeavors fall in line with what the President says science is supposed to pursue. Dr. Ketchum stepped outside that memo with her study and mainstream science more or less made her know it. But in a sense mainstream science ha no choice in the matter with funding being at risk for non compliance to the memo. It sounds pretty bizarre to think that things have come to this but ANY Sasquatch endeavors will have to be privately funded and even if funding is successful mainstream science will more than likely turn their back on it.

 

This isn't to say that Dr. Ketchum's study was on point though. It's just to illustrate the problems one could face getting peer review even if one dots all of the i's and crosses their t's and Dr. Todd Disotell stated in the article Norseman posted. But then Dr. Disotell needs to abide by the Presidential memo as well. So where dos that leave the nest investigations that the Olympic Projected is conducting? Where did that leave Dr. Sykes in his own look-see into U.S. Sasquatch phenomenon? Like when he went to the laboratory in Oregon? Where does it leave anything by Dr. Fahrenbach? The Sasquatch subject has always been met with resistance but the atmosphere in general has moved to a more stifled condition.

[hiflier]

53 minutes ago, OntarioSquatch said:

Her team did turn on her. Her publicist Sally Ramy, who worked very closely with her left her, and publically announced that Hersom should take legal action against her

 

Dr. Ketchum listed nine members of her team. Sally wasn't one of them. Would you be so kind as to clarify your intent with such statements because clarity is of the utmost importance. It's what I'm striving for anyway- clarity.  Wally Hersom is a kind man and didn't need to know the science. He's also smart and wealthy. He could've hired a team of scientists to run through everything had he wanted to. He was patient enough to wait and see if anyone on the scientific team cried foul. No one did and no one has...........YET!

 

And I say that because I don't know everything. There may very well be things going right now that I am not privileged to know. But what I do know is that it's quiet out there on the Ketchum front. And until something happens (if it's going to) Dr. Ketch apparently has done nothing to negate any non-disclosure agreement and generate a 'team'- HER team- of whistle-blowers. This isn't hard. If any fraud or deception had been suspected by any of the lab owners, especially the ones connected to Law Enforcement, then the so-called house of cards that Dr. Ketch has been often accused of creating would have come crashing down a long time ago. 

 

Again, this isn't a hard thing to understand. She has been called every name in the book: liar, cheat, scammer, fraud, hoaxer....you name it but so far absolutely zero has come of it. And believe me there were people who could've built a case against her if here was something there to build a case upon. Misinterpreting results isn't a crime; self publishing isn't a crime. If it was to deceive or defraud there would have been legal action by now. It's not like there was no one who wouldn't have known. Heck, if that was the situation then there is no way at least one of the nine team members who ran those tests would not have seen it after reading her paper- if not back then, then surely today, or last year, or two years ago. Hasn't happened. Let it go.

    

53 minutes ago, OntarioSquatch said:

The DNA sequences that she provided serve as good indicator of it for reasons I’ve mentioned on the previous page

 

And the DNA sequences from the samples she sent to the labs supported her findings after a double blind study. The labs didn't know what the samples came from or who they came from. And that double blind study included the labs themselves as well as the administrators of those labs. Both were in the dark as to the source of the samples. Let it go. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by hiflier

[bipedalist]

Get a clue hiflier, Ramey ran the PR for most of Melba's campaign until trusted confidantes saw through the charade, including her.  I know our own BF blogger was on-board until the curtain was pulled back to see what this study was really worth.  She then got a Michigan habituator to come on board and that is when huge retrenchment and defensiveness ensued in her camp making it ten times worse.  There were misrepresentation of personnel, people hiding behind pseudonyms and fake emails, on and on trying to support her when the made up websites for the journal showed up.  She was on life support then, stick a fork in it now. 

[hiflier]

I honestly think I'm talking to myself here. Page 11 had such a disconnect with anything I was saying regarding confidentiality agreements, lack of lawsuits, lack of professional reprisals, and no evidence that any SGP team member thought there was anything wrong with the study then or now. No evidence whatsoever that anyone associated with the project either financially or professionally saw or reported any improprieties technically or scientifically. No one, except for one PR person who is NOT a scientist, geneticist or even a lab tech and did not financially invest into the study. All of that- with no legal or criminal indications of any kind and no action taken at any time against Dr. Ketchum- at all.

 

So. What? I'm just making this up? "Get a clue hiflier" is the response to this entire line of thinking? After asking that personal jabs not be issued I get a jab anyway? That paragraph above has merit whether anyone likes it or not. No one can refute it but rather that agree or find some alternate reason that explains what I said in that paragraph? I'm told to stick a fork in it. Seriously, if there is a darned good reason or reasons that provide another avenue of thinking for discussing why Dr. Ketchum has been virtually untouched legally for her accused misconduct then I would honestly like to hear it. And I mean that. I would like to hear it. For the sake of emphasis I will repeat the paragraph:

 

"Page 11 had such a disconnect with anything I was saying regarding confidentiality agreements, lack of lawsuits, lack of professional reprisals, and no evidence that any SGP team member thought there was anything wrong with the study then or now. No evidence whatsoever that anyone associated with the project either financially or professionally saw or reported any improprieties technically or scientifically. No one, except for one PR person who is NOT a scientist, geneticist or even a lab tech and did not financially invest into the study. All of that- with no legal or criminal indications of any kind and no action taken at any time against Dr. Ketchum- at all."

 

None of you can address these things. If you could you would instead of side stepping every point I've brought up. I'm about to rest this case because I have see no direct or relevant rebuttals for at least two pages. When none of her colleagues from the study broke the non-disclosure/confidentiality agreement because they found something fraudulent or deceptive- because they didn't find or see anything fraudulent or deceptive even after the fact and after the paper went public. Nothing. No attacks, no mutinies, no cries of foul or foul play.

 

So yes, I'm nearly done here and not because I've somehow vindicated Dr. Melba Ketchum of any wrong doing. It's more because I see no one who is willing to step up and actually look at that bolded paragraph and understand what it really is saying. Melba Ketchum doesn't need vindication from wrong doing- that's what it's saying. There is nothing in that paragraph that indicts her. No action taken against her means no action taken against her.  And not one of you is willing enough to even say why that would be after all the things she has been publicly accused of doing. No action taken against her by ANYONE. Just how could that be possible after all the supposed fraud and deceit and stealing other people's money through this scam she is alleged to have hatched and run? No reprisals for all the bad evil things. 

 

Lots to think about now folks, so get to it. And NOW, I'm done here.

[bipedalist]

You know as well as I one of the few times legal actions have taken place in BFing go back to the days of the PGF, if you don't, or know of a lot more of them let us know

because lack of legal action is no defense by itself. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by bipedalist

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Scientists/geneticists have already given their opinion of the paper, and it’s become apparent that one would have a difficult time proving that Ketchum didn’t misinterpret the data. Hiflier openly admits this, yet expects that Wally Hersom would have somehow seen through the study, and have taken legal action against Ketchum if she had committed fraud.

 

The extent of the labs’ job was to do paid DNA testing, and provide Ketchum with the results. They’re not in any way responsible for how people interpret the data. They’re not going to sue anyone over interpretations that they as an organization aren’t in any way responsible for.

[ShadowBorn]

If NDA's were signed by those involved in this project then how can any action be taken by law by anyone.  These NDA's would be giving total power to Dr. Melba  on what action she could take on those who signed them. So in a way she protected her self from any action. Now I am not a lawyer but I am assuming that this could be a reason.

[Twist]

I fail to see how “no one pursuing legal action against her” in any way validates her findings.  The general consensus seems to be that her theories are wrong and most qualified people I’ve read have backed that up.   10 lawsuits against her ain’t changing that as far as I can see.

[hiflier]

OK, I'm going to respond to this. It's not about her theories. Lots of people have theories. And a few of those are based on fact, but most are opinion. So, nope. This is about addressing the labeling of Dr. Ketchum as a fraud, a cheat, a liar, a scammer, a hoaxer, a rip off artist, a thief, a deceiver, and anything else along the lines of why people say they hate and despise her. THAT's what this is about.

 

So you are correct, 10 lawsuits won't change what she had theorized whether it is accepted or not. But there aren't ten lawsuits; there's not even ONE lawsuit. It says that, non-disclosures aside, no one has come against her or her theories with ANY accusations of wrong-doing. Mainstream science? Yes. BF proponents and members her? Yes. But the issues spread quickly from wrong theories the data didn't support to INTENTIONAL FRAUD, DECEPTION, THEFT, LYING, HOAXING, AND ALL OTHER KINDS OF NAME CALLING, CHARACTER ASSASINATION, TRUE HATE AND LOATHING.

 

Hey, I have theories too like anyone else but that a far cry from this: "INTENTIONAL FRAUD, DECEPTION, THEFT, LYING, HOAXING, AND ALL OTHER KINDS OF NAME CALLING, CHARACTER ASSASINATION, TRUE HATE AND LOATHING."  Big difference. However if there is an agenda to really trash me in many other ways because of my theories even though I committed no illegalities, i.e., no lawsuits, no litigation, no reparations? Well, you get the idea. Until Dr. Ketchum either ends up in court, or some other legally accused wrong then all that's there is that she was convinced the data said Sasquatch and did everything to move on that. Period. Everything is just trash talk and it's just been trash talk for at least the last five years. There is nothing in the way of legal action that says she did anything wrong. Zilch. And it's certainly been long enough for anything to materialize from all of the smart, educated, and wealty people and supporters in and around her the entire time of the SGP study.

 

But people don't care about any of that. They'll just keep on trashing her anyway and make sure the situation remains volatile in the face of everything I've just said. It's an long running agenda to destroy Dr. Ketchum that goes far beyond and outside misinterpreting the data of a five year study. The consistent and sheer imbalance of it all has had me more than curious for some time.   
 

Edited October 23, 2017 by hiflier

[Sasfooty]

An NDA would probably not be binding in case of fraud or deception as to material facts.

 

 

 

 

[Martin]

Wasn't the website set up by Ketchum's friend then Ketchum tried to promote her "paper" as being accepted for publication by a 3rd party journal?

 

The entire fiasco was born with deception and to this day it's still just a post on a webpage and not even a "published" paper.

[hiflier]

9 minutes ago, Martin said:

Wasn't the website set up by Ketchum's friend then Ketchum tried to promote her "paper" as being accepted for publication by a 3rd party journal?

 

The entire fiasco was born with deception and to this day it's still just a post on a webpage and not even a "published" paper.

 

My son set up MY website and somehow I didn't think it would be an issue since I didn't know how to. The original journal requested a list of changes to make in order for them to publish the paper. Dr. Ketchum met the criteria and they were ready to publish but then were advised by their legal counsel to not do so. And even though many disagreed with Dr. Ketchum's decision to purchase the journal, rename it, then and publish the study with peer review, she was not breaking new ground in doing so.

 

The decision to do so was not without precedent and she followed guidelines that, before her, had already been set for others before her in order to do so. She went by the book so to speak for following the proper protocols setting up the journal. Didn't matter though, she got slammed for it anyway. And because she did it, even in the right way, people have used the move as the reason the paper failed. i.e. Dr. Todd Disotell:

 

(my bold)

 

"This is a look without basis for motive, or supposition, but rather a dry look at why the Ketchum Study has failed.

 

Make no mistake, it has failed, as it missed the mark in being published in an established scientific journal with peer review with some degree of scientific acceptance."

 

Amazing to me really. So the entire manuscript with all of the science, supplementary raw data, and somewhere around 1800 pages of billions of pieces of sequence just from ONE of the three genomes...........failed because it missed the mark in an ESTABLISHED journal. So, just toss out a five year effort. See how easy it is to trash something outside the norm? One sentence and it's over. Thank you, Dr. Disotell. And at the time of his writing he said he had only read the summary and conclusions parts of the paper.

 

I advise everyone who has not read everything on the Sasquatch Genome Project's website to please do so. It will make the going here for all so much easier. I want to leave this thread. I need to leave this thread. You don't need me on this thread. All you need to do is read for yourselves.

 

[norseman]

Ok..... I cant take it.

 

The ONLY person that trashed Melba Ketchum?

 

Was MELBA KETCHUM!!!