Field Tech Talk

[NathanFooter]

  Hey everyone, it has been a while since I have stopped in for discussion as my time was tied up between work and moving back to WA with my wife.  I am however back in the field and conducting my work as before.

 

 I wanted to get back into discussion on field gear and the latest tech available for data collection. 

 

 Something specific I am working on is long term thermal camera projects,  I am currently in preparation for assembling a system that can record thermal video for days on end in the wilderness without the need of human service (more to come on this later).   

 

At this time, I would like to present some information on the latest handheld systems you can get within a fair price range. 

 

SEEK  CompactPRO

  This little unit about the size of a pink brick pencil eraser and is a Android or Apple phone/tablet mounted unit.  , It is a great option for field operations with a 15 Hrtz ( other models are around 8 hrtz ) frame rate and a 320X240 resolution sensor.  For the price of 500$  it is a great entry unit for those trying to record what is going on in the immediate area. 

  Footage example.    

 

Below I have the specs of the unit on display as well as a link to the website for further information.  

 

320 x 240 Thermal Sensor

32° Field of View

> 15 Hz Frame Rate

1,800 ft. Detection Distance

Focusable Lens

-40F° to 626°F Detection

Waterproof Case Included

Photos & Videos

Spot Temperature

High-Low Temperature

Threshold Mode

9 Color Palettes

Auto & Span/Level Control

Adjustable Emissivity

 

Main product site.    https://www.thermal.com/compact-series.html

 

 

[SWWASAS]

The problem I see with an phone or tablet mounted IR camera is that with the screen of the phone on, you are going to be lighted like a Christmas tree from the screen illumination.    Any subject seeing you light up, is going to be gone in short order.   

[NathanFooter]

Just now, SWWASAS said:

The problem I see with an phone or tablet mounted IR camera is that with the screen of the phone on, you are going to be lighted like a Christmas tree from the screen illumination.    Any subject seeing you light up, is going to be gone in short order.   

 

 I was thinking the same thing as far as just scoping around,   you can put the phone in a virtual reality headset or use those UAV display glasses to see what the phones camera is viewing. 

[SWWASAS]

320 X 240 resolution is going to put you into a situation where you may know full well that what you imaged was a BF but skeptics will just claim it is a guy in camo or a suit.    And with that poor resolution you cannot do much to argue what it was.   That is so poor most of us could not stand to watch TV programs presented at that resolution.         Personally I think night photography has so many technical challenges and little chance of providing anything definitive that it is not worth the money needed to produce mediocre results.       Look at how long Finding Bigfoot blundered around the woods at night without significant results.    Night belongs to what can see better in that environment and it is not humans.  

[NathanFooter]

   Sasquatch proportions extend beyond human range both in sheer size and limb ratio based on the majority of report information.

 

   It is not a very good argument  for someone to say ,, dude in a suit ,, when it comes to thermal video.   

 

   Thermal dynamics offer information that a standard camera cannot.  With a thermal you can distinguish what is and is not part of a potential subject and compare everything from the temperature gradient to the proportions by limb ratio.

 

   It is about so much more than proof for the public, it is also about getting information on what it is you are encountering to reduce false positives . 

   This tool can help draw a clear line between what your imagination thinks is out there and what actually is in the dark (most of the time a rodent).

[gigantor]

Welcome back NathanFooter and congrats on finding somebody to put up with you! 

 

It seems to me a lot of people are waiting for a new wizbang thingy that will take care of the mystery once and for all. It doesn't work that way...   we need to use every tool at our disposal and anything that moves the ball forward will help.

[SWWASAS]

Have to agree with Gigantor on the whiz bang gadget thing.      As someone in another thread pointed out, throwing money at the problem getting gadgets is not going to provide quick and easy solutions.    What will is time in the field,   since the biggest factor with a BF encounter is getting to where they are.    There are necessary costs associated with that,    going back and forth.   And the Forest Service has an active program to close and limit human access by closing and blocking roads.   The first thing on my wish list would be helicopter insertion into remote areas where humans normally do not go.   There are a number of interesting areas that are very hard to get to.    That would be very expensive and could only be done legally if the helicopter does not land.  Landing aircraft in National Forests is prohibited without prior permission.    So one would have to rappel into landing zones.      The really interesting areas are designated wilderness areas and even low overflight is prohibited.      So even if I was rated to fly one, which I am not,   it would take a helicopter piloted by someone else to get me there and back.  We are talking big bucks for those kind of operations.  

[TritonTr196]

4 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

What will is time in the field,   since the biggest factor with a BF encounter is getting to where they are.    There are necessary costs associated with that,    going back and forth.   And the Forest Service has an active program to close and limit human access by closing and blocking roads.

 

In my closest research area only a few miles from my home, it's a state forest and they close all the roads except two from middle of Nov till middle of March. They are only blocked for motorized vehicles. You can still hike or ride a peddle bike or horse ride. They do this here as I assume most everywhere, is those months are the wet seasons here and they don't want the roads rutted out when they are soaked from vehicles digging them out. It sucks having to hike miles back in during those months when rest of the year it takes no time to drive in... It's a more rugged state forest and there is no paved roads, only gravel main road and a few off roads. Rest are hard dirt or creek rock type roads.

A entirely enclosed holder would only work for using a cell phone to do this due to the light. A device like this attached to a cell phone would if kept on, get extremely hot. And unlike a trail cam it would be prone to moisture. 

 

What I'm interested in hearing is what you come up with for power to keep it going for days at a time.

[gigantor]

Power is easy if you have space, just wire in parallel the required amount of batteries...  I think Nathan will find the limiting factor to be the storage capacity.

 

[TritonTr196]

Not sure why I didn't get an edit button but that last post was suppose to be two quotes. Where it starts with "an entirely enclosed holder....." was meant for Nathan's post.

 

 

Wiring batteries like lithium or alkaline in packs to charge something full time would be a fire hazard. Solar panels would be the only feasible power source for continuous operation. And then it would require several good panels to work. And panels are easily seen. A setup which would cost more than this cell phone thermal thing and the phone itself.

 

As a side note, for those of you that use thermals of any kind, always wear the included neck strap or make one yourself. This past week a team member of ours and several others was at a hot spot and when looking over a small creek bridge his flir fell out of his pocket into the creek... Even made a video of it of him wading in trying to find it in some nasty stale creek water... 

[gigantor]

2 hours ago, TritonTr196 said:

Wiring batteries like lithium or alkaline in packs to charge something full time would be a fire hazard.

 

Not so my friend. It is done every day in all kinds of devices. There are two ways to wire batteries together.

 

1) In series. This increases the output voltage and it is used to increase the output voltage/current. You don't want to do that if you want to extend the capacity of the system and it will definitely damage your device, probably a fire hazard as you say if the device does not have a circuit breaker/fuse. It gives you more voltage but it doesn't last longer.

 

2) In Parallel. This does not increase the output, it increases capacity. i.e. how long the system can provide a given output over time. This is what Nathan should do. We use this technique for our sound recorders and it works very well.

 

There is also a technique that uses smaller batteries wired in two series and then each series is wired in parallel, it's supposed to get you the most capacity. I have not tested this method in a home made pack, but UPS battery backup systems in our server rooms use it.

 

Here is a good primer on wiring batteries.

[Redbone]

I want to add here: If wiring batteries in parallel to increase capacity, make sure they are the same type of batteries and starting out at the same voltage level. If you tie an old battery to a new one, The new one can charge the old one. That is no real problem if it's a rechargeable battery but it could be a big problem with alkaline or other non-rechargeable batteries.

 

I sometime use 'slightly used' alkaline batteries in my recorders for short term use, but these are in series where a slight difference in voltage doesn't matter so much. Still, I also measure the voltage beforehand and pick the one that match by both brand and voltage.

 

I agree with Gigantor that the limiting factor in a long term setup (for audio or thermal) will be storage space.

We can gain a lot of time in audio by selecting lower resolution (bits per second) settings. I have not set up a long term audio recorder yet, because size matters in my setup. It will go 65 hours battery life and 66 hours memory space. It's always a guess as to which limit I will hit first, but it's been good enough to go 3 full nights in all attempts I've made.

 

If using an external battery, be aware that mice like to chew on wires. You are better off if it's all in one container, with wires enclosed. I've had a mouse (or some other rodent) chew the foam wind screen off of my microphone. I have a friend who has had some expensive Giant Squid microphones damaged because he just hung them out in a tree,

 

Looking at the original post here, it seems that the Seek Thermal device needs to plug into the phone to power it, making it difficult to hook in a battery setup to keep the phone charged. It might be possible to rig up an adapter (splitter) harness that lets you do both at the same time. A usb phone charger puts out 5 volts so you could do this setup with a 6 or 12V battery (or anything in between). It would be helpful to know how much current the phone + thermal device would pull. Once you know that you can calculate battery life for different battery setups.

[SWWASAS]

Wiring batteries in parallel is not a good idea unless you have no choice.   As Redbone commented, one battery will start charging the other.   Lead acid batteries usually start failing when one cell goes bad,     When that happens the healthier battery will start trying to charge the failing battery.    If I wanted a large capacity 12 volt lead acid battery pack I would use two large 6 volt batteries wired in series.      Lithium battery packs should have a ballancing charger where the charger ballances the voltage of different segments of the pack.  Unballanced cells can result in fire or explosion when one cell runs away.     Radio Control hobbiest' s  have smart chargers that attempt to ballance packs.     D cells in parallel work fairly well to increase a lower voltage supply capacity.    But in most cases two batteries of the appropropriate voltage in series are probably a more reliable solution to increasing a battery pack capacity.      One will fail prior to the other when the voltage starts dropping and the battery pack with loose voltage until the circuit can no longer operate.    Low temperatures affects some types of batteries worse than others.      Some types exhibit a gradual voltage loss where as others hold voltage fairly well then it quickly plummets as they discharge.   .     Many of the mysterious battery failures in BF recording gear is simply low temperature battery failure.       Temperatures drop over night,  the digital gear shuts down at a critical voltage,  and in the morning when it is warmer,   when you check,    it seems to power up normally and BF is blamed.    I have found brand new batteries right out of the package that are significantly under nominal voltage.   Any battery in critical gear should be tested with a voltmeter when you install it.    Most batteries, even well known brands, are made in China where quality control is lacking.       

[wiiawiwb]

I've always thought that old-fashioned wilderness gumshoeing is what will get you a chance to see a sasquatch. I still believe that hard work is the key, but now I'm more excited about employing technology as a tool.

 

I've had several incidents these past few years, including two with eyeshine, and those might have yielded confirming results if I had a thermal.  I'm getting a Pulsar thermal in the next four of five months whenever I can latch onto a good discount/sale. 

 

I'm convinced that it is an incredible tool for us to have.

[TritonTr196]

6 hours ago, Redbone said:

We can gain a lot of time in audio by selecting lower resolution (bits per second) settings. I have not set up a long term audio recorder yet, because size matters in my setup. It will go 65 hours battery life and 66 hours memory space. It's always a guess as to which limit I will hit first, but it's been good enough to go 3 full nights in all attempts I've made.

 

Think you said in another thread you used the px333. If so you should be getting lot more than 65 hours of battery life just using alkaline batteries. I get four solid nights out of one set of alkaline. With lithium five nights. I use the highest settings also. I don't want any blocking or compression or low quality recording of the sounds it receives.