"Patty" Is Real

[hiflier]

10 hours ago, gigantor said:

hiflier, how did you measure Patty's shoulder width?

 

To be clear, when I first started thinking about this I was completely unaware of Dr. Krantz' analysis. I own an original copy of Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us by the late John Green and had seen the same diagram (pg. 445) that was posted on this thread many times but, as things would have it, I never put two and two together on what I was seeing in that diagram in so far as measurements or their relationships to each other.

 

For some reason when looking at the PGF the size of Patty's shoulders became obvious and so I began to wonder about just how wide they were. The only way to really determine that was in the last frames of the PGF. Something you and many others would agree with. It became apparent that her shoulders WERE very wide as a result. I started to wonder how wide compared to her height. It was then I realized that I really didn't need to know her actually physical height but only needed to know the ratio of shoulder width to height. That ratio could then be extrapolated to any arbitrary height.

 

Mr. Bill Munns was kind enough to send me some images of Patty walking away in the last few frames of the PGF. Something we rarely see because everyone seems to always focus on the film section with her looking over her shoulder- frame 352 if you will and adjacent frames. Of course in the last few frames with Patty walking away she appears pretty small on a computer screen but since I was only interested  in a ratio it didn't matter. I originally got large shoulder width numbers because I had misinterpreted Mr. Munns scaling. I found some frames that were fairly clear and took screen shots of them and used a scale that had 1/32 divisions to measure the height and width of Patty to get the ratio I was looking for- 2.32.

 

Using that I went conservative on her height because of slightly bent knees (compliant gait) and forward-leaning head. I divided 72 inches by the 2.32 ratio and got 31 inches for a total shoulder span. I got that same measurement from two different frames of the film so was sure it was correct. So taller measurements in height only will result in wider shoulder spans. I found what the average shoulder span is on a Human male and realized at that point that a person in a suit would have their elbows protruding just outside the Patty 'suits shoulders. I then physically measured myself and saw that my own elbows, which measured 36 inches tip to tip verified that my own elbows at the ends of my 19 inch shoulder span would indeed barely stick out from inside a Patty 'suit'. And that they absolutely WOULD NOT be located where Patty's are in frame 352 or any other frame of the PGF.

 

That settled the issue for me of whether or not the subject in the PGF was a real Sasquatch..............It was.

Edited October 26, 2017 by hiflier

[hiflier]

In retrospect it appears that an averave 6 foot Human male will have a total shouder span of a little over 25% of his height. Patty has a toal shoulder span of 42%!! And that's if she is only 6 foot tall.

 

Questions I now have; Some old, some new:

1 ) Patty is real. What does it mean for this and other BF Forums to know that?
2 ) Patty is real, what does it mean for the skeptics to know that?
3 ) What does it mean for Bob Gimlin to know that?

4 ) What does it mean for the BFRO?
5 ) Patty is probably dead, so are there still others alive today?
6 ) What does it mean for our researchers in the field?
7 )What does it mean for Dr. Jeffery Meldrum?
8 ) What does it mean for those who fight the big fires in various habitats that have had a history of activity?
10 ) What does it mean for all of the government agencies like the Department of the interior, the Forest Service, the BLM, the Park Service?
11 ) What does it say about the government itself with all of it's access to survellance techologies and the agencies that use them?

 

This list of questions is pretty small. The full list goes on and on and at this point probably touches on just about every thread on this Forum all the way back into BFF 1.0.

 

It is therefore extremely important that definite numbers and ratios for Patty be nailed down quickly and that they be tested again and again before they are confirmed until everyone agrees with them. The Sasquatch subject was fun for me to get involved in. It's not fun for me now. It has just become soberingly serious. The short list of questions above illustrates that very well. Now what?

[Teegunn]

Great work Hiflier!  I have also noted the shoulder width thing going on with Patty.  If shoulder pads were being worn, the arms would hang inside the width of the pads.  Also, parts of her arm and shoulder move in conjunction with each other which would not be likely, even impossible, with  shoulder pads on under a suit.

 

There are other key areas for me that lend the "can only be real" conclusion.  Seeing the flexing calf muscles as she walks is a big one.  There are a few others.

 

If this was a dude in a suit, they A) had a dude built unlike almost any other human in that suit and B) that was ONE hell of a suit.  

 

Now I wish there was more evidence that lent itself so conclusively to a real creature than just the PGF.  The PGF is a unicorn from an evidence standpoint - nothing much else out there as good.

[WSA]

I guess we all arrive at our epiphany point by different routes Hiflier. Sounds like this was yours, and I am thrilled you have reached that level of certainty. What does it mean for others and the greater world? Well, as we say down here in the Heart of Dixie: Just don't stand on one leg while holding your breath to find out. Not to take anything away from your analysis, which I find to be very impressive, but I'm convinced there is no magical tipping point out there where all skeptics and agnostics concede the error of their ways and capitulate. If you were able to fortify and make safe your wall of incuriosity up to this point, with the MOUNTAIN of otherwise unexplained evidence to date, I'm doubting very seriously it would be much of a problem to throw one more sandbag on the rampart.     

Edited October 26, 2017 by WSA

[norseman]

3 minutes ago, WSA said:

I guess we all arrive at our epiphany point by different routes Hiflier. Sounds like this was yours, and I am thrilled you have reached that level of certainty. What does it mean for others and the greater world? Well, as we say down here in the Heart of Dixie: Just don't stand on one leg while holding your breath to find out. Not to take anything away from your analysis, which I find to be very impressive, but I'm convinced there is no magical tipping point out there where all skeptics and agnostics concede the error of their ways and capitulate. If you were able to fortify and make safe your wall of incuriosity up to this point, with the MOUNTAIN of otherwise unexplained evidence to date, I'm doubting very seriously it would be much of a problem to throw one more sandbag on the rampart.     

 

Plussed. No magical tipping point.

 

And this evidence is older than dirt.

 

Its awesome that Hiflier is convinced this is a real creature. Yahoo!

 

Now we need proof that no one can take issue with or pick apart. Thats physical evidence..... the only path I think to end our mystery.

 

 

 

 

[sheri]

Good work Hiflier. Even if it was done before, it was good you did it yourself !

[hiflier]

Thank you, Teegun, WSA, Norseman, and sheri and the rest of you. You know it's one thing to just say hey, Patty is real. It's another to explain as clearly as possible why one thinks so. I apologize if it appeared to be tedious in that regard but thought a step by step was the best avenue to take. People can toss out a lot of things regarding conviction of Sasquatch existence, and we've seen a lot of that, so I thought walking everyone through the process I used would be OK to do.

 

I mean if my arm, stuck through the shoulder hole in a Patty suit, was going to be far short of moving and looking natural on the outside with an elbow bending in the wrong place by a half a foot? Then at least Bob Hieronimus' arm would do the same as our shoulders were only a half inch different. All I need to do now is find someone who can overlay the image of a 6 foot or so Human skeleton on top of even the diagram done by John Green or flat onto an image of Patty's full back view which appears later in the PGF. Sometimes a visual of exactly where the skeleton's elbows would actually end up would best illustrate the issue. Certainly would be better to see the discrepancy rather than just imagine it.

 

I would also like to know why and how this approach had fallen by the wayside for all of these years. Am I missing something? I can be pretty cynical- and I'm trying not to be for the time being anyway. But I do think it a fair question to ask.  

Edited October 27, 2017 by hiflier

[Teegunn]

Even if something like this has been done before, it is always good for others to see it illustrated this well again.  These are very important details that it is good to go over again, and quite possibly learn or figure or figure out something new that wasn't discovered before.  Also lets others look at and consider these things as some may not have known this specific research had been done in the past.  Threads like these are why I like reading this site.  

[Mendoza]

I've got something along similar lines (but, in my opinion, significantly stronger) to share as soon as I finish getting it written up.  I had actually hoped to time it to coincide with the anniversary of the PGF, but real life and something like writer's block keep slowing me down.  Stay tuned.

[hiflier]

9 hours ago, Mendoza said:

I've got something along similar lines (but, in my opinion, significantly stronger) to share as soon as I finish getting it written up.  I had actually hoped to time it to coincide with the anniversary of the PGF, but real life and something like writer's block keep slowing me down.  Stay tuned.

 

I will and look forward to what you have been working on  

[SweatyYeti]

On 10/28/2017 at 0:26 AM, Mendoza said:

I've got something along similar lines (but, in my opinion, significantly stronger) to share as soon as I finish getting it written up.  I had actually hoped to time it to coincide with the anniversary of the PGF, but real life and something like writer's block keep slowing me down.  Stay tuned.

 

 

Looking forward to seeing your analysis, also, Mendoza.  

21 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

I will and look forward to what you have been working on  

 

 

Good observations, regarding Patty's shoulder width, hiflier.   

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by SweatyYeti

[Patterson-Gimlin]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:26 PM, norseman said:

 

Plussed. No magical tipping point.

 

And this evidence is older than dirt.

 

Its awesome that Hiflier is convinced this is a real creature. Yahoo!

 

Now we need proof that no one can take issue with or pick apart. Thats physical evidence..... the only path I think to end our mystery.

 

 

 

 

You are well informed and you get it. No declaration by anyone is meaningful. Just an opinion. Even physical evidence that may or may not be manipulated simply will not do. I have read ,researched and spent countless hours outdoors. Spoken to eyewitnesses that includes friends and others. As we both know the only evidence that can't be picked apart is a specimen that can be examined, tested and retested. . Then and only then can the creature become reality and documented. Of course the chances of that occurring at this point is highly unlikely.

[MIB]

8 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

Of course the chances of that occurring at this point is highly unlikely.

 

That, too, is just an opinion.      

 

MIB

[Trogluddite]

Congratulations Hiflier.  That's a novel approach and I don't see much that can be argued against it. (Checks calendar, puts the over/under on 2.5 days before someone tries to debunk the idea.)  

 

Edited to add: My wife measured my shoulders.  I'm 71.5 +/- 1/4" inches tall, with a 20" shoulder width.  That is, my height is 3.575 times greater than my shoulder width. Makes me quite the piker compared to Patty. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Trogluddite

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

For a theory to be accepted by others, the support for it needs to be sufficiently noncontroversial. You might have a theory that’s correct, and properly supported, but that won’t neccesarily lead to others having the understanding of it as you. If this were not the case, many phenomena such as this one would not be a mystery.