Some Thoughts On Reliable Eyewitness Testimony

[Guest alex]

Sasquatch is unlike most cryptids, people can be mistaken about a black hump in the water for many things, but when you are dealing with an animal up close that is 8ft and weighing over 600 lbs, there is little margin for error

[Guest charles]

Hi All . Very interesting reading. As I said I am not a researcher nor did I really spend a lot of time wondering about weather there was a bigfoot or not. I think because of that I was open to information on a fair level.

The fellow who I spend all and believe me all my extra money on books for is sharp as a tack he is 94 almost 95.He was a sniper in the war and protected our rights. A good portion of his life time he has spent in the bush as a prospector and trapper.

When he speaks about this subject it is with such clarity and detail that it can't be made up. He has no reason to make up anything there is no gain for him .He only shares his many (many experiences with truly interested people ,he just seems to know who they are.He speaks of bigfoot as I would a big buck. there is no exaggeration ,no story telling tone to his voice. He knows people who have seen Bigfoot and refuse to believe it. The first time i listened to him I never heard him refer to him as anything other than a Bigfoot .He has seen family unites and is not nor has he ever been afraid to share the bush with Bigfoot.

He can't get enough information about him. I am afraid now with all of the books I have bought that I may buy some that are not genuine,or made up stories.

I so believe and from listening to him ,I can completely envision this creature.

I would realy like any book sugestions you guys may have I need to visit amazone soon. Charles

[norseman]

The first thing I fire back with the eye witness testimony argument is HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE CONVICTED EACH YEAR BY THIS VERY TESTIMONY??? ALOT! Especially if you get two or more eye witnesses and their testimony matches the other. If two or more eye witnesses pick you out of a line up, your in trouble in the US justice system.

So why does it work for our criminal court system, but when applied to sasquatch reports all bets are off? Well I suppose it's not the answer that the skeptics are looking for.......that's why.

There are plenty of people that see a moose when they have seen a cow. Or a squatch when they have seen a bear, etc... But then again many people lead urban lives and simply do not get much interaction with nature anymore. But what about the old logger or fisherman or hunter that sees native animals all the time? Then either he is lying, or he saw something outside of his normal experience.

[Branco]

Unfortunately people are sent to prison for less than what is required to validate a bigfoot sighting. Truthfully, if resources allowed, the best time and conditions to interview are immediately after the sighting because the memory fades and fills in the gaps over time. We also tend to have problems expanding the focus of our attention. Here is a video that demonstrates just how fallible we can be when witnessing something:

As for this example, it is misleading, and invalid. The witness is directed beforehand to zero on one thing, and the results are based on the failure to note something else. It is basically the same deception used by stage magicians.

Of the hundreds of BF sighting I have investigated, about 90% of the witnesses were experienced hunters or residents of rural areas where they routinely saw the native wildlife. Only about 2% of the reports received were found to be hoaxes or outright lies. The others, for various reasons were "iffy".

Let me offer an example of a sighting in which a witness had no idea of the extistence of the animals seen, but who is absolutely certain that the animals he saw were as he described. The witness was walking a new dozer road on the side of a plateau. A huge tree had been blown down across the road. As he approached the tree, still about 40 yards from the tree's root ball, he saw an animal suddenly climb the root-ball to his left, and jump down onto the massive tree trunk and start walking nonchalantly down the trunk. The tree fell at an angle, and the animal got closer to the witness as it walked the trunk. When it reached the point that the trunk was only three or four feet from the ground - only about 20 yards from him - it stopped, and turned its head back toward the root ball. In a few seconds another animal, of the same kind, but slightly smaller in size, jumped over the root and followed the same path as the first. The first animal lightly hopped off the tree trunk and walked off into the forest to the right of the witness. The other animal, like the first, paid absolutely no attention attention to the witness who was in plain sight. The second animal hopped off the tree trunk at the same place as the first and disappeared into the forest. The witness had never seen or heard of such animals. He is a VERY experienced hunter and woodsman, but he knew that what he was seeing was something new to him. What he saw was an animal walking on four feet, with the approximate body size of a large bobcat. It's body shape was very similar to that of a bobcat, but its head and neck were different. Its neck was longer, and its face was more like that of a member of the weasel family. Its ears were somewhat rounded (unlike those of a cat), and its tail was rounded and longer than a bobcat's, but shorter than a cougar's. The kicker is that the hair on the creatures's heads was snow white, and the hair on their bodies was coal, shiny black. There is absolutely no doubt but what the witness saw was an animal unknown to him.

[masterbarber]

Yep. One of the more chilling encounters I recall of late. A definite change of underwear would have been in order for me. And, I'm not easily frightened.

Unless someone has a recording of the entire incident's radio traffic (between the Officer and Dispatch), to me it's just a story. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

^And your evidence is?

[Guest River]

There was a case being discussed on the old forum about an Indian Reservation cop that got chased by one after responding to a prowler call. He had the presence of mind to hang is mike out the window of his patrol car as he drove away with the creature pacing him screaming. The dispatch recorder got the sound on tape.

Yet the "skeptics" would claim this report too is "not credible".

Same with the White Mountain Apache case documented on the Bigfoot Lives video. In that case the supporting evidence was tracks (which were cast) and hair samples (sent to the state Game and Fish lab, idented as "unknown animal").

That recording was made by a tribal officer. The officer did not see anything. The officer when interviewed on camera said "he heard a sound" as he was driving down a road. He never stated he that he was "paced". Basically the dude recorded a sound.

You are misquoting the LEO witness. Watch this starting at 7:15, and then the second one at the begining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txgRlqsg3oI

The officer did not state at anytime that an animal paced him, or that he even saw the source of the sound.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Colossus
Made more pleseant

[Guest]

Spazmo,

I don't know if bigfoot exists, but there's no question that the bigfoot phenomenon exists and, in my mind, is worthy of investigation.

Pteronarcyd

[masterbarber]

^And your evidence is?

11+ Years experience as an LEO, so I fully understand how Police communications work. What's yours?

[masterbarber]

That recording was made by a tribal officer. The officer did not see anything. The officer when interviewed on camera said "he heard a sound" as he was driving down a road. He never stated he that he was "paced". Basically the dude recorded a sound.

You are misquoting the LEO witness. Watch this starting at 7:15, and then the second one at the begining.

The officer did not state at anytime that an animal paced him, or that he even saw the source of the sound.

Actually, I don't believe Mulder was misquoting the Officer intentionally. I believe he's referencing a newspaper article, which I recall reading also, that stated the Officer responded to a Prowler call and then after he got back into his patrol car, he held his mike out the window as the BF was running after him. I haven't located that newpaper link again but will post it if I can find it.

Addtionally, this Officer has apparently had a BF sighting along with his brother (also Tribal PD) his cousin and his wife. Interesting that his Captain didn't feel the incident(s) warranted further investigation.

SASQUATCH REPORTS STIR UP RESERVATION

Lummi Indian Reserve, Bellingham, Washington

Saturday November 15, 1975

"If you try to twist around, I'll personally come down and do a war dance on your head" declared the 210 pound Lummi Indian police sergeant who says he has

seen a Sasquatch.

Sgt. Ken Cooper of the Lummi Law and Order Department was directing his anger over the telephone at a Times reporter, inquiring about a trip Cooper made to Hollywood last summer to be interviewed about an earlier Sasquatch investigation.

"That doesn't have anything to do with this, "Cooper snapped before slamming the phone in the reporter's ear! Cooper says he saw a giant hair creature - supposedly the legendary half man half ape Sasquatch - on the Lummi Reservation near Bellingham early October 24 then again a few days later.

Cooper said the creature also was seen by his wife, his cousin, Marvin Cooper, and his brother Lee Cooper and by a Lummi police officer. Captain Fred Guardipee, Bureau of Indian Affairs officer who heads the Lummi police organization said: "I have no reason to doubt the words of my officers, but I don't think I have the facts to justify calling in the Bureau of Indian Affairs help for further investigation. At this time, I don't plan any further investigation." Guardipee also said he didn't encourage his officers to threaten the public or press. Since work on Cooper's reported sighting got out, the Lummi police have been besieged by 60 telephone inquiries from newspapers and radio stations from Alberta, Canada to California to Chicago.

Intrigue over the Sasquatch, or Bigfoot as it is called in some areas, has been widespread for years and has been the subject of numerous books and movies - some of which have been good moneymakers.

Wolper Productions, a Hollywood Producer of documentary films has been big on sasquatches. It produced "Monsters, Mysteries or Myth" which was shown nationally on CBS TV. It has just released a new Sasquatch film, "Bigfoot - The Mysterious Monster."

In the production of the latest film, Wolper paid the flight and travel expenses for Cooper and 6 other Indians to visit Hollywood for interviews about a 1967 Sasquatch sighting on the Lummi Reservation.

Cooper had investigated the report of the 1967 sighting. "They didn't even use me in the movie. He said the others wanted to interview me because of my position as a police officer.

Robert Guenette, head of Wolper Productions said only one of the Indian interviews was used in the movies," he said. "I think they were paid for their flight, meals, lodging and whatever actors' scale is - I don't know - maybe $100.00" Cooper said he is not a "Sasquatch buff or expert."

He told the United Press International that he didn't want any publicity but the news leaked out anyway. Cooper said he was called to a home the night of October 23rd. There had been numerous reports of Sasquatch sightings within recent weeks, he said. He investigated, saw no animal but found a plastic storm door torn and it's frame splintered. He also found two boards ripped from a fish smokehouse behind the residence.

He said he returned to the residence again about 2:30 a.m. October 24th with his wife and cousin and turned the patrol-car spotlight on a huge hair creature standing in the brush.

Cooper said he had his shotgun aimed at the creature and his cousin had a pistol. He said he decided to leave because the only way he could take it would be to kill it. He said huge tracks found on the (Lummi) reservation indicated three creatures of different sizes have been roaming the area. Cooper said he has a tape recording of the creatures hollering.

A call to Cooper's home yesterday was answered by Rene Dahinden, Canadian Sasquatch author and investigator, who once threatened to sue Wolper Productions over the use of the late Roger Patterson's film showing a huge, hairy creature walking along a creek bed in Northern California. There has been much debate on whether the Patterson film was real or rigged. Various full-time Sasquatch experts over the years have been at odds trying to discredit each other's claims and making charges and counter charges over "evidence."

Of the Cooper sighting, Dahinden said, "This looks like a good one." Captain Guardipee said: "I've checked the incidents and I have not seen why I should call in any investigators."

- ---

Story graciously provided Bigfoot Encounters by The Bay Area Group, Warren Thompson and Peter Byrne.

© The Seattle Times Story by Don Hannula - Saturday November 15, 1975

efc.

Edited October 27, 2010 by masterbarber

[Guest River]

Actually, I don't believe Mulder was misquoting the Officer intentionally. I believe he's referencing a newspaper article, which I recall reading also, that stated the Officer responded to a Prowler call and then after he got back into his patrol car, he held his mike out the window as the BF was running after him. I haven't located that newpaper link again but will post it if I can find it.

Addtionally, this Officer has apparently had a BF sighting along with his brother (also Tribal PD) his cousin and his wife. Interesting that his Captain didn't feel the incident(s) warranted further investigation.

efc.

Yeah I've seen that other report by the same person. (two different versions of it, they were obviously from the same account but varying stories, mulder previously linked it) I guess that article you remember was either false, or his testimony on camera was. Take our pick Couldn't have happened both ways. I'll stick with the one where I can actually see the officer speak on camera recounting his story about the origin of the sound that was recorded. I didnt see the officer mention seeing anything. He only stated he "heard a sound" as he was driving down the road and then he recorded that sound.

[Guest River]

Another thing I'd like to add: (but i cannot edit posts to add this) Eyewitness testimony is just that. Even if we had this officer on camera saying "yes I saw a bigfoot chasing me, and recorded this sound". Would it be any more reliable than the GA bigfoot hoax? How so? One of the people involved was a police officer, and the other had been a corrections officer. I dont think neccesarily being a cop make your testimony any more believable.

Cops are people too.

[Guest]

That recording was made by a tribal officer. The officer did not see anything. The officer when interviewed on camera said "he heard a sound" as he was driving down a road. He never stated he that he was "paced". Basically the dude recorded a sound.

You are misquoting the LEO witness. Watch this starting at 7:15, and then the second one at the begining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txgRlqsg3oI

The officer did not state at anytime that an animal paced him, or that he even saw the source of the sound.

Ok, I made a error then, based on the reporting that I had at that time about the incident. That still does not change the substance of what the officer recorded.

[masterbarber]

...or the author was putting his spin on the article. I prefer to get my info straight from the horse, for sure. That way you always know who to pin the tale on.

[Guest]

11+ Years experience as an LEO, so I fully understand how Police communications work. What's yours?

So because the clip doesn't have the WHOLE transmission, then none of the transmission is real?

Actually, I don't believe Mulder was misquoting the Officer intentionally. I believe he's referencing a newspaper article, which I recall reading also, that stated the Officer responded to a Prowler call and then after he got back into his patrol car, he held his mike out the window as the BF was running after him. I haven't located that newpaper link again but will post it if I can find it.

Addtionally, this Officer has apparently had a BF sighting along with his brother (also Tribal PD) his cousin and his wife. Interesting that his Captain didn't feel the incident(s) warranted further investigation.

efc.

Yeah I've seen that other report by the same person. (two different versions of it, they were obviously from the same account but varying stories, mulder previously linked it) I guess that article you remember was either false, or his testimony on camera was. Take our pick Couldn't have happened both ways. I'll stick with the one where I can actually see the officer speak on camera recounting his story about the origin of the sound that was recorded. I didnt see the officer mention seeing anything. He only stated he "heard a sound" as he was driving down the road and then he recorded that sound.

I will stipulate that the interview is the "best evidence" of the details of the incident, but it doesn't change the basic nature OF the incident. He was responding to a prowler call during a "flap" of BF activity and recorded a creature screaming at him as he drove in his car.