Camo - who uses it and which pattern?

[Airdale]

That is certainly your decision to make. There are, however, folks who may be just getting into the outdoors and unfamiliar with hunting, firearms, etc., and my warning was directed primarily at them. Personally, I have always made it a policy to avoid open hunting areas during big game season, which is of limited duration in Montana, and generally not conducive weather wise to sitting motionless for extended periods. There is no getting away from dipsticks with deadly weapons, whether firearms, motor vehicles or any other potentially lethal device. All too often they harm others rather than themselves, or manage to take another with them on the final journey.

[FarArcher]

On 5/9/2018 at 0:24 PM, WSA said:

Patterson and Gimlin may have not appeared to be humans to Patty initially, but I hardly think the horses prevented her from knowing there was a presence there to be concerned about. This is borne out by the fact she was already on the scoot when the camera came out. I am doubting there were any feral horses wandering around the vicinity so as to lull her into thinking a couple of horses at hand was nothing to be wary bout at all.  My assumption has always been Patty had reasons to be seen as she was seen, horses or not. This is not an original thought of course, and hinges on the idea she young near by, and that her exposed route was the quickest and most direct way to get to them and get them out of there.  Once again, dumb luck played much more an important role than the idea the horses somehow allowed them to see her in the open.  

 

Agreed.

 

If one shows itself - especially in the open more or less - it's for purposes of misdirection.

 

If an approach by horseback were all that was required for putting the sneak on BF, then there should be all kinds of sighting - especially by those who tend to spend lots of time in the saddle.

 

But they don't.

 

They don't see squat - because being on horseback is not a factor.

 

As for camo, it works against many animals and humans pretty well.  

 

But it won't work for these things.  They see different.  Any critter that can hunt deer - at night - he can see different, and visual camo won't help as deer in thick stuff has a very effective natural camo - and they still get taken.  At night.  When it's hard enough to see deer being still in any thick stuff during the daylight hours.

 

Camo in blacks and greys seem most effective to me.  Bark, ground detritus, shadows, and brush aren't really all that green.  Best I've seen so far is South African Gray (no longer produced and banned in Africa), which is black and gray, and then there's Kryptek Typhon which is really good - works day and night - if one holds to shadows and low areas close to the ground - rather up in the top of a pine tree.

Edited July 19, 2018 by FarArcher

[Guest Yetie9]

Anyone try the HECS suit?   Supposedly eliminates the electrical discharge produced by humans etc.    I have a hunting bud that swares by it 

[NCBFr]

FA - Good to see you back

[FarArcher]

27 minutes ago, NCBFr said:

FA - Good to see you back

 

Thanks!  

On 5/9/2018 at 0:24 PM, WSA said:

Patterson and Gimlin may have not appeared to be humans to Patty initially, but I hardly think the horses prevented her from knowing there was a presence there to be concerned about. This is borne out by the fact she was already on the scoot when the camera came out. I am doubting there were any feral horses wandering around the vicinity so as to lull her into thinking a couple of horses at hand was nothing to be wary bout at all.  My assumption has always been Patty had reasons to be seen as she was seen, horses or not. This is not an original thought of course, and hinges on the idea she young near by, and that her exposed route was the quickest and most direct way to get to them and get them out of there.  Once again, dumb luck played much more an important role than the idea the horses somehow allowed them to see her in the open.  

 

Agreed.

 

If one shows itself - especially in the open more or less - it's for purposes of misdirection.

 

If an approach by horseback were all that was required for putting the sneak on BF, then there should be all kinds of sighting - especially by those who tend to spend lots of time in the saddle.

 

But they don't.

 

They don't see squat - because being on horseback is not a factor.

[Homer666]

The reason I don't use camo is because I think it's the movement that tends to give the stalker away - also, I am not really the stealthy type.  I do believe the camo'd researcher who is either under a root dug-out or behind a fallen tree and not moving would have better luck.  Also, IIRC, there have been reports of hunters in tree stands seeing these creatures.  Perhaps, the BF were engaging in misdirection - or maybe they are subject to the same Bell curve statistics as we humans: i.e.  Within a certain population, there will be those who are less intelligent than the average (substitute cautious, stealthy, timid for "intelligent" and you will understand my thinking).

 

H

[norseman]

According to the 411 books people who dress in bright colors are much more likely to turn up on a missing poster.... rifle hunters in many states are required by law to wear orange.

 

It also should be said that Apes which includes Humans sees in full trichromatic vision.

[SWWASAS]

I started field work not wearing camo because I did not own any.    I was not wearing any when I was having encounters.    Then I got sneaky, decided I could get closer, and basically started trying to stalk BF wearing full camo looking like some sort of Rambo.    About that point the encounters stopped.  I initially thought it was coincidence or the fact logging operations were moving in.    Perhaps I was right, but I cannot get rid of the nagging hunch that BF did not like being stalked.    They are a predator.    They have to know when a human is acting like a predator and I doubt they like it.    I know I would not like it if someone was stalking me.   Many here suggest doing something else like fishing to seem like less of a threat.   I think there is a lot of merit to that approach.   After all we think that BF eat fish so would understand the activity. 

[norseman]

A much more scary proposition to your experience is that by being sneaky and being camo’d up?

 

Is that you were no longer being stalked yourself! Because they didnt know you were there.

 

When your loud and wearing bright colors your a target. And a candidate for your own 411 case file.

 

Just food for thought.

[SWWASAS]

3 minutes ago, norseman said:

A much more scary proposition to your experience is that by being sneaky and being camo’d up?

 

Is that you were no longer being stalked yourself! Because they didnt know you were there.

 

When your loud and wearing bright colors your a target. And a candidate for your own 411 case file.

 

Just food for thought.

You have a good point.  That may be a factor in a couple of instances.    My first encounter, for a while (months) after it happened, I thought for sure they were following me.   I was wearing bright colors.   I had moved along a trail to the North,   got into some nasty area with poison oak, and decided since I was wearing shorts, to not continue that direction.   I came out,  went past my starting point,  and went South.    Decided I had just been there a few days before, and decided to head East on another trail.    At that point I heard them whooping to each other.  From the direction of my furthest North point of travel.    They were hooping back and forth about every 15 seconds from slightly different directions and I assumed that it was some owl species that I had not heard before.    Then I noticed the whoops were heading my direction.  I figured I would soon see them flying down the creek, like I had seen an Eagle other time.   I thought that really strange that owls would be not only whooping at each other but doing it during the day.   It was not until I heard the footsteps and breaking of brush that I realized it was not an owl and that one of the two, on my side of the creek was headed right towards me.   Anyway it saw or smelled me before I saw it, and went to ground with a huge thud,  followed by 4 rapid knocks.     I waited for a couple of minutes for something to happen.   Then went into the underbrush in the direction of the thud,  with my camera ready and got my juvenile picture.            I assumed for a long time that they were following me, since they were coming from the direction I had been before.     I felt like I might have been prey.      On reflection, and with further experience in close contact,  that did not make sense.   When they stalk, they are silent, as I learned later trying to get one to break cover and had one flank me and get behind me.    If they had been after me, I was close enough to have been grabbed within a few footsteps the first time.   Now I consider myself lucky because of the juvenile, that they did not do just that and have me go missing.   They did not know I was there before the encounter.    The wind was blowing from me right to them.    I suspect I was smelled before I was seen.  

 

The break cover situation, I  thought I was the stalker, wearing camo, but  I was the one that was stalked.   I had heard thuds of one moving and started moving through some heavy woods towards it trying to get it to break cover so I could get some video.   There was a lot of big blow down logs and underbrush and it was slow going moving towards the movement.   I had to climb over or crawl under a lot of stuff as I moved.     When I did make progress,  I would hear thumps when it moved tree to tree away from me.    Unknown to me, while I was closing on the first,   another had circled around behind me as I was doing this.  I heard nothing from this one, it was totally silent.       When I pushed the one in front of me against a ridge line and it probably knew it had to beak cover,   it growled and within a couple of seconds,   the one behind me broke off a small tree with a huge snap. That scared me a lot more than the growl.     I realized I was between the two and I told the one that growled, I got it and was backing out.   They let me back away from both of them.    I headed for a clear cut area nearby because I wanted to know if I was being followed.    It was obvious to me they had been in control of the situation from the beginning.       I suspect it was the same ones that I had encountered the first time since that was only about a half mile away. .   I hate to think what would have happened if I had cornered the one that growled and not backed off.   Perhaps because I did nothing to the juvenile they gave me a pass.     One had to have been female.    Maybe that made some difference.     I don't know.  

 

[norseman]

I can honestly say that I have never heard whoops or tree knocks while in the woods. Maybe Im doing something wrong.

 

As far as camo its not magic. It simply screws with trichromatic vision. Your scent, noise, where you walk, all play a factor in being found out. Or not.

[wiiawiwb]

On 7/18/2018 at 8:11 PM, FarArcher said:

As for camo, it works against many animals and humans pretty well.  

 

But it won't work for these things.  They see different.  Any critter that can hunt deer - at night - he can see different, and visual camo won't help as deer in thick stuff has a very effective natural camo - and they still get taken.  At night.  When it's hard enough to see deer being still in any thick stuff during the daylight hours.

 

 

 

Many predators around the globe stalk deer, or its equivalent, at night. Are you saying that a person in very effective camo, such as a ghillie suit (or ASAT I would assert), would be detected without hesitation?

 

I'm assuming that's speculation on your part. I find it hard to believe that camo which works with humans and animals alike but, magically, is ineffective with a sasquatch.

 

Not buying into that theory.

 

[SWWASAS]

The closer BF are to human the more likely camo to work.  Part of what camo does is break up our human outline.    The brain uses shape recognition for us to identify friend from foe and camo breaks up the human shape with irregular patterns.   The military face paint is part of that.   The color question is pertinent because what works in the PNW forest is not going to work in the desert someplace.   During military escape and evasion training I found out movement and lighting is a very big factor.    We were trying to reach an objective without the instructors capturing us.   Two of them spotted me,  I ran on the other side of a low pine tree, out of their sight,  then dove right under it.   Wearing nothing fancy, just fatigues,  i went face down in the dirt,  in the shadow,  with my arms over my head.     The two searching instructors walked right past me and did not see me.   They searched for a while, said that was a good disappearing act,  and tried to talk me into showing myself.   I didn't and they finally caught someone else that blundered into them.  I don't think they knew how close they were to me and probably assumed the guy they caught was me.   I could have reached out and grabbed one of their feet.     It was a bright sunny day, and with lack of movement on my part,  neither of their eyes allowed them to look into the dark shadow and see anything.      I think BF uses similar freeze in place techniques and likely most of the time humans assume they are a brown stump.     If BF have as light sensitive eyes as many of us guess,    their eyes will be sensitive to sunlight, so use of shadow would be even more effective with them as it is with humans.    Step into the shadows if you think one is approaching.  

Edited August 4, 2018 by SWWASAS

[SWWASAS]

Norseman;    Whoops I have only heard once, so they are very rare.    I doubt they would have whooped if they knew I was there.    Knocks have been less than 5 times.   Only one of those times I knew it was BF because it was the one that blundered into me whooping.   I cannot rule out humans in the rest of them.          So again knocking is rare.      I don't knock, howl or make any noise at all to try to get responses.    I am guessing that you are on horseback most of the time you are moving in the woods?     Perhaps that is the difference?    A woman friend who rides says her horse pretty much ignores bears  and reacts mildly to cougar sightings,  but something else in BF country freaks it out.  She often rides over near Mt  Adams at a horse camp there.   She thinks it is BF.   If you put a horse into the equation, that has to make a difference in potential BF contacts.     I know I hear riders well before they see me.   The thudding sound of the hooves tips me that something is coming.   If they are with someone, they are usually talking.    If not to each other then to the horse.     I usually hide just to see how well I can do it.   Freaky I know, but I sort of try to use BF tactics just to see how effective I can be.   There probably have been times that I have been observed by them doing it.      I wonder what they think?     Maybe that is part of what makes me strange enough that I am a curiosity to them.    Or on the other side of the coin,  if I get anywhere near as good as they are,  avoiding humans,   perhaps they might think that dangerous to them.  I am very sure they do not like to be stalked.  

Edited August 4, 2018 by SWWASAS

[Incorrigible1]

5 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

The closer BF are to human the more likely camo to work.  Part of what camo does is break up our human outline.    The brain uses shape recognition for us to identify friend from foe and camo breaks up the human shape with irregular patterns.   The military face paint is part of that.   The color question is pertinent because what works in the PNW forest is not going to work in the desert someplace.   During military escape and evasion training I found out movement and lighting is a very big factor.    We were trying to reach an objective without the instructors capturing us.   Two of them spotted me,  I ran on the other side of a low pine tree, out of their sight,  then dove right under it.   Wearing nothing fancy, just fatigues,  i went face down in the dirt,  in the shadow,  with my arms over my head.     The two searching instructors walked right past me and did not see me.   They searched for a while, said that was a good disappearing act,  and tried to talk me into showing myself.   I didn't and they finally caught someone else that blundered into them.  I don't think they knew how close they were to me and probably assumed the guy they caught was me.   I could have reached out and grabbed one of their feet.     It was a bright sunny day, and with lack of movement on my part,  neither of their eyes allowed them to look into the dark shadow and see anything.      I think BF uses similar freeze in place techniques and likely most of the time humans assume they are a brown stump.     If BF have as light sensitive eyes as many of us guess,    their eyes will be sensitive to sunlight, so use of shadow would be even more effective with them as it is with humans.    Step into the shadows if you think one is approaching.  

Your recounting reminds me of one of my own. In my late twenties,  I'm on a Goldwing, at a kegger in a park just outside the eastern Nebraska city of my residence, trying to impress the local lasses with my charm and wit to no avail.

 

Heeding nature's call, I walked to some trees, some 35 yards away. As I'm  watering the trees,  several cars of the local jurisdiction arrived,  red lights flashing.  I'm of age, but since not in the immediate vicinity of said kegs, decided to quickly depart the scene. 

 

I, too, am chased by two of the gendarme, and similarly dove into the dense undergrowth, burying my face from their prying flashlights.

 

It worked! I could hear them discussing where I might have gone,  and their next course of action.  I stayed still for another quarter  hour,  or so.

 

I returned home,  and didn't discover until the morning a clue of just what that undergrowth was. Duh, the prominent undergrowth of the  Platte river,  poison ivy. My hastily conceived escape plan backfired in spectacular results!

 

My live-in gf took me to the hospital emergency room.  It was a Sunday,  and my arms,  hands,  and face were swelling to twice their normal size.

 

An old, wisened ER nurse brought in a basin of chlorine solution and  a stiff scrub brush.  She proceeded to vigorously soak and scrub off the raised blisters on my affected areas!

 

Yes, it was miserable.  I took cortisone steroids that week,  and  missed four days of work.

 

I believe one's susceptibility to poison ivy / oak increases with each  time affected.  These days, I'm affected if I merely am downwind of the accursed foilage.