Camo - who uses it and which pattern?

[FarArcher]

11 hours ago, hiflier said:

Doesn't sound like FarArcher considered himself lucky LOL if I remember some of his past postings correctly. I might look at a sighting differently but then If it happened it would be after I know what I know now. I think Far Archer was taken completely by surprise as a non-initiate because at the time he didn't know- or knew very little and maybe thought the whole thing was a joke until............

 

No I didn't consider myself lucky - and to this day - wish I'd never seen it.

 

Wish they'd never stood outside my tent.  Wish they'd never slapped it multiple times trying to get a reaction.  Wish they've never thrown pebbles at the tent to get a reaction.  And it only got worse when soon enough - as we shined our lights down where we'd shot that deer that almost had it's neck broken by something - there were seven pairs of glowing eyes looking back up at us - and slowly blinked out as they moved just a bit to get behind trees.

 

Which told me there were certainly more than two - the one initially growling at me, and the one I saw as he ran at me. 

 

That realization of at least seven - didn't do a single thing to help me sleep at night.

 

Wasn't one or two 'passing through,' but at least seven sharing the mountain with us.  One's bad enough to be shocked by.  Multiplied by seven - nope - no luck for me.

Edited August 12, 2018 by FarArcher

[hiflier]

You said 'glowing eyes' but since you used flashlights it was more reflection as in eye SHINE? If eye shine was there a color? Were you using halogen or incandescent? And was there a Moon of any kind? Noise when they moved? Odor? How far down the cliff? Steep most of the way or did it bottom out into a lesser grade? Was there water down below. Not talking about that you could see at night but just as a general knowledge of the terrain's features. Was this when you were cutting the road or in a previously cut location. Was it below a high point you were camped on? What time of night? Caves in the area that you know of?

 

Seven in one group is a lot as I don't read of that many at once but it just may be that some areas DO have a population large enough and old enough to support hunting in those numbers. If so the knowledge would be pretty unsettling. Last few questions and I will let it go: Do you think that such a group would not be known about by the people who should know about it? How could this group operate (and there may be more than seven) and people or agencies tasked with land management or development be unaware of its presence? Do you think people ARE unaware of the group's existence? If you think people must be aware of this population of creatures then do you think that they might just know that anyone working or staying for a length of time could be harassed by them?

 

As you can see I would be a good witness interviewer as there are many more questions but these are enough certainly for now.

Edited August 12, 2018 by hiflier

[FarArcher]

14 hours ago, hiflier said:

You said 'glowing eyes' but since you used flashlights it was more reflection as in eye SHINE? If eye shine was there a color? Were you using halogen or incandescent? And was there a Moon of any kind? Noise when they moved? Odor? How far down the cliff? Steep most of the way or did it bottom out into a lesser grade? Was there water down below. Not talking about that you could see at night but just as a general knowledge of the terrain's features. Was this when you were cutting the road or in a previously cut location. Was it below a high point you were camped on? What time of night? Caves in the area that you know of?

 

Seven in one group is a lot as I don't read of that many at once but it just may be that some areas DO have a population large enough and old enough to support hunting in those numbers. If so the knowledge would be pretty unsettling. Last few questions and I will let it go: Do you think that such a group would not be known about by the people who should know about it? How could this group operate (and there may be more than seven) and people or agencies tasked with land management or development be unaware of its presence? Do you think people ARE unaware of the group's existence? If you think people must be aware of this population of creatures then do you think that they might just know that anyone working or staying for a length of time could be harassed by them?

 

As you can see I would be a good witness interviewer as there are many more questions but these are enough certainly for now.

 

My loose use of terminology - thus, my bad.  Reflection.  Red was the color.  I think we had LED flashlights - I did - not sure about the others.  That night, I don't recall any moon.

 

Yes, we heard a whisper of movement, and we were expecting a cat or maybe even a bear to come that night for the deer - so we were sort of listening for signs of it being either dragged or eaten.  Neither one of those noises - no real wind that night - so everything was silent.  Just heard a couple small, barely discernible snaps - probably small twigs being stepped on.

 

It was a very steep pitch to directly below, a semi-level area where they were traversing across the slope - and yes, there was water about forty or fifty yards further along the direction they were traversing to get to the deer.

 

This was an older location.  Yes, it was directly below where we camped.  Since we went to bed rather early - it must have been somewhere within an hour and a half of sundown.  I believe there were caves in the area, and in fact - while I didn't check it out - I felt strongly that there was a cave or large overhang below us and maybe 60-75 yards to the east - and I just had a gut feeling that some lived down there, as one was spotted in that location when it came out and stood still on a huge rock outcrop looking south -

 

Slightly higher than us (we were about 150 feet below the absolute peak) was a large cluster of huge boulders.  Before this ever happened, I told a guy 'every time I look at that cluster of boulders, I get a bad feeling.'  He said that was funny as he did the same thing - and no one ever approached it.

 

I'd say that I never thought of whether or not seven individuals would be a large group or not.  Just a lot more than I wanted to know about.  I didn't even want to know about one!  This area was so rich in deer herds - if one went to sleep on a few game trails - you'd probably get trampled to death by deer.  Just going up on an ATV, a few times I found myself right in the middle of a herd, and could have slapped three or four right on their rumps!  The dumb things would run with me right up the cut!

 

This area provided lots of game, water, isolation, and minimal intrusion.  Yes, the locals are aware not just of this "clan," but there are apparently clans every few miles.  One guy sees them on the road or crossing the road on his way to work - several miles away from this site - on a regular basis.

 

As to your question about the 'people who should know about them' - not sure who those people are?  I mean, everyone thereabouts know these things are everywhere - and everyone pretty much minds their own business.  No law around, no city, and it's difficult country.  I saw one guy who had a "Bigfoot Crossing" by the road in front of his house - and at first I thought it was a joke.  After the fact - maybe not.

 

I mean, you could hide a few infantry divisions within thirty square miles - so these things have no trouble detecting folks approaching along the only road - and avoiding the same.  So it's not like a group of seven, or even seventy would have a problem remaining undetected.

 

On occasion, as one is going back down - they'll throw a good sized rock out in the road in front of you, or just push a tree over to block the road - and you'd have to get down and move the tree to continue back down.  Just letting you know they're not real welcoming.

Edited August 12, 2018 by FarArcher

[hiflier]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I think it is important for myself and other members to hear the story and the level of interaction that can go on in an active area. I also get the impression that these creatures are pretty well entrenched and sounds like they may have been for some time if the locals know them that well for that long.

 

1 hour ago, FarArcher said:

As to your question about the 'people who should know about them' - not sure who those people are?

 

The usual suspects, DOI, Dept. of Agriculture (Forestry Service), BLM, F&W, you know.......the usual. How could they not? But just hearing your experience is certaintly enough. Thanks again. 

[SWWASAS]

2 hours ago, FarArcher said:

 

My loose use of terminology - thus, my bad.  Reflection.  Red was the color.  I think we had LED flashlights - I did - not sure about the others.  That night, I don't recall any moon.

 

Yes, we heard a whisper of movement, and we were expecting a cat or maybe even a bear to come that night for the deer - so we were sort of listening for signs of it being either dragged or eaten.  Neither one of those noises - no real wind that night - so everything was silent.  Just heard a couple small, barely discernible snaps - probably small twigs being stepped on.

 

It was a very steep pitch to directly below, a semi-level area where they were traversing across the slope - and yes, there was water about forty or fifty yards further along the direction they were traversing to get to the deer.

 

This was an older location.  Yes, it was directly below where we camped.  Since we went to bed rather early - it must have been somewhere within an hour and a half of sundown.  I believe there were caves in the area, and in fact - while I didn't check it out - I felt strongly that there was a cave or large overhang below us and maybe 60-75 yards to the east - and I just had a gut feeling that some lived down there, as one was spotted in that location when it came out and stood still on a huge rock outcrop looking south -

 

Slightly higher than us (we were about 150 feet below the absolute peak) was a large cluster of huge boulders.  Before this ever happened, I told a guy 'every time I look at that cluster of boulders, I get a bad feeling.'  He said that was funny as he did the same thing - and no one ever approached it.

 

I'd say that I never thought of whether or not seven individuals would be a large group or not.  Just a lot more than I wanted to know about.  I didn't even want to know about one!  This area was so rich in deer herds - if one went to sleep on a few game trails - you'd probably get trampled to death by deer.  Just going up on an ATV, a few times I found myself right in the middle of a herd, and could have slapped three or four right on their rumps!  The dumb things would run with me right up the cut!

 

This area provided lots of game, water, isolation, and minimal intrusion.  Yes, the locals are aware not just of this "clan," but there are apparently clans every few miles.  One guy sees them on the road or crossing the road on his way to work - several miles away from this site - on a regular basis.

 

As to your question about the 'people who should know about them' - not sure who those people are?  I mean, everyone thereabouts know these things are everywhere - and everyone pretty much minds their own business.  No law around, no city, and it's difficult country.  I saw one guy who had a "Bigfoot Crossing" by the road in front of his house - and at first I thought it was a joke.  After the fact - maybe not.

 

I mean, you could hide a few infantry divisions within thirty square miles - so these things have no trouble detecting folks approaching along the only road - and avoiding the same.  So it's not like a group of seven, or even seventy would have a problem remaining undetected.

 

On occasion, as one is going back down - they'll throw a good sized rock out in the road in front of you, or just push a tree over to block the road - and you'd have to get down and move the tree to continue back down.  Just letting you know they're not real welcoming.

Just curious why you would know of a suspected cave location,  suspect BF inhabitants, and never check it out?     Certainly a group of boulders that gave two of you bad feelings would be on my list of places to explore too.     I certainly may not go there solo but If I was convinced of BF occupants I could gather some people to check it out.    All it takes is one inhabited cave and this BF existence issue could be solved.    Not sure it would be a good idea to enter an inhabited cave but certainly the entrance could observed from a distance and cameras placed.   A recently inhabited cave would tell us much more about them than we already know even if the occupants have stepped out.   Do they use cultural artifacts?    Do they process or store food?   Do they make beds?   DNA would be all over the place.  

[hiflier]

7 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

DNA would be all over the place.

 

And if I wasn't properly equipped and the cave was a birthing site or a nursery my brains could be all over the place too  

Edited August 12, 2018 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

You got that right.   Having cornered a BF I know that doing that makes them cranky.    I was golfing last week in Seaside, and my trained eye noticed signs of some animal trail leading off the Tee back back into the underbrush next to the course.   Curious because the game trail was well used, I expected some deer to be bedding down back there.   It was not a deer but a couple of nasty tempered coyotes that growled at my intrusion.   Like humans most critters do not like being messed with in their dens.  

[FarArcher]

53 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Just curious why you would know of a suspected cave location,  suspect BF inhabitants, and never check it out?     Certainly a group of boulders that gave two of you bad feelings would be on my list of places to explore too.     I certainly may not go there solo but If I was convinced of BF occupants I could gather some people to check it out.    All it takes is one inhabited cave and this BF existence issue could be solved.    Not sure it would be a good idea to enter an inhabited cave but certainly the entrance could observed from a distance and cameras placed.   A recently inhabited cave would tell us much more about them than we already know even if the occupants have stepped out.   Do they use cultural artifacts?    Do they process or store food?   Do they make beds?   DNA would be all over the place.  

 

Because I didn't give a rat's fuzzy * * *.  I didn't go near that huge boulder pile, either.

 

Keep in mind - I never thought these things existed - and the very last thing in my mind was running into something that didn't exist.  Besides - these were some sort of caveman, and I didn't know diddly squat about cavemen - except to note they're butt ugly.  I couldn't have been any more surprised if a flock of pterodactyls showed up.

 

I never pick a fight I'm not certain to win, or at least do enough initial damage to have my opponent to break off.  I was in special operations - and we were always outnumbered - and while there were times we tackled superior numbers - we'd usually have the element of surprise.  Not here.  Not with these things.

 

We were on another task - sorely unprepared for these guys.

 

I've done a lot of mountain climbing - and in the O Company, Arctic Rangers, we did a lot of rescue of everything from plane crashes to lost or injured hunters.  No way to rappel down without ropes and at least one snap link.  

 

And I wouldn't have gone down there if I'd had them.  With bad men - even cavemen - I've found distance is my friend.  More time to react.  You go stick your head in a cave - you may not get it back.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by FarArcher

[hiflier]

 

22 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Like humans most critters do not like being messed with in their dens.

 

Pretty much sums it up SWWASAS. Being growled at by a couple of 40 lb. coyotes is bad enough. Being stretched to the breaking point between two 400 lb. Sasquatches? More than bad enough. The real trick would be to get off a fast, clear, photo before.....uh.....well all I can say is I think I would have a pretty good excuse for my blurry blobsquatch image  

[ShadowBorn]

Fararcher

So did they steal you game ?

[FarArcher]

2 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

Fararcher

So did they steal you game ?

 

 

No, they didn't steal anything - in fact - they more accurately 'recovered' a deer they'd hit on the neck and almost killed - but he got into the clear and came toward us.

 

That deer could walk a few steps and fall down, struggle to get up, take a few steps and fall down.  His knees were bloody from the falls, his walk was wobbly, and he came toward us - I suppose the least threat.

 

One guy said he didn't want to see it suffer any more - took his rife, went down to the runoff, and shot it.

 

Said it's neck was so far out of whack - he couldn't understand how it could walk at all.

 

We left it there - and it was a 'recovery' of the deer they just missed killing that day - and that night - they came to get it.

 

 

3 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

Just curious why you would know of a suspected cave location,  suspect BF inhabitants, and never check it out?     Certainly a group of boulders that gave two of you bad feelings would be on my list of places to explore too.     I certainly may not go there solo but If I was convinced of BF occupants I could gather some people to check it out.    All it takes is one inhabited cave and this BF existence issue could be solved.    Not sure it would be a good idea to enter an inhabited cave but certainly the entrance could observed from a distance and cameras placed.   A recently inhabited cave would tell us much more about them than we already know even if the occupants have stepped out.   Do they use cultural artifacts?    Do they process or store food?   Do they make beds?   DNA would be all over the place.  

 

Because I didn't give a rat's fuzzy * * *.  I didn't go near that huge boulder pile, either.

 

Keep in mind - I never thought these things existed - and the very last thing in my mind was running into something that didn't exist.  Besides - these were some sort of caveman, and probably pretty clever and as mean as they want to be.  I couldn't have been any more surprised if a flock of pterodactyls showed up.

 

I never pick a fight I'm not certain to win, or at least do enough initial damage to have my opponent to break off.  I was in special operations - and we were always outnumbered - and while there were times we tackled superior numbers - we'd usually have the element of surprise.  Not here.  Not with these things.

 

And the mass of this guy - I'm not convinced a .308 is nearly enough to stop one - if he needed stopping right now.  And if I had to shoot one - I'd want to be sure it had enough grunt to knock him flat on his big *  *  *.

 

We were on another task - sorely unprepared for these guys, and to tell the truth - that was my first caveman!  At the time, I was hoping it was my last.

 

I've done a lot of mountain climbing - and in the O Company, Arctic Rangers, we did a lot of rescue of everything from plane crashes to lost or injured hunters.  No way to rappel down without ropes and at least one snap link.  

 

Let's just say a group of them was spotted near this locale - that was rough and vertical - another was spotted solo - and it's good cave/overhang country.  As was the really steep backside of that whole mountain.

 

I didn't know diddly squat about cave men.  Didn't want to then - and there.  

[Explorer]

23 hours ago, FarArcher said:

 

No I didn't consider myself lucky - and to this day - wish I'd never seen it.

 

Wish they'd never stood outside my tent.  Wish they'd never slapped it multiple times trying to get a reaction.  Wish they've never thrown pebbles at the tent to get a reaction.  And it only got worse when soon enough - as we shined our lights down where we'd shot that deer that almost had it's neck broken by something - there were seven pairs of glowing eyes looking back up at us - and slowly blinked out as they moved just a bit to get behind trees.

 

 

Far Archer,

 

It is not clear to me if you actually got out of your tent to check on who was slapping the tent and throwing pebbles at the tent?  Did you get out of the tent right away and that is when you shined your lights into the creatures? Or did that happen later in the evening?

 

Just wondering if you actually exited the tent and confronted the creatures right after the moment of the slap or pebble throw.

 

Most people that  report BFs walking or making noises close to their tents stay inside their tents and don't get out.  Since a tent is such a fortress of safety! 

 

A more general question to speculate on: what do you think would happen to you if you exited the tent right after the moment of a tent slap and shined the light at the creature standing feets away?

I don't think they wanted to kill you, otherwise you would not be here.  Not sure if they would hurt you either.

Scare the hell out of you, yes.

 

 

[FarArcher]

1 hour ago, Explorer said:

 

Far Archer,

 

It is not clear to me if you actually got out of your tent to check on who was slapping the tent and throwing pebbles at the tent?  Did you get out of the tent right away and that is when you shined your lights into the creatures? Or did that happen later in the evening?

 Nope, didn't get out.  It was cold, I was zipped up in my sleeping bag, a 1911 in my hand across my chest - and there was no way I was going out there.  We were still sitting around the fire when we heard a little noise, walked to the edge of the dropoff, shined out lights down, and saw the seven pairs of eyeshine.

1 hour ago, Explorer said:

 

Just wondering if you actually exited the tent and confronted the creatures right after the moment of the slap or pebble throw.

No way.  Once I was in and cocooned - I was in until the sun came up.

1 hour ago, Explorer said:

 

Most people that  report BFs walking or making noises close to their tents stay inside their tents and don't get out.  Since a tent is such a fortress of safety! 

 

A more general question to speculate on: what do you think would happen to you if you exited the tent right after the moment of a tent slap and shined the light at the creature standing feets away?

No idea.  I sure wasn't going to find out.  First - I was shocked that cavemen actually exist.  Second - now they have to come to my tent?  Stand there?  Slap the tent?  From above throw pebbles?  Naw - I wasn't about to go outside.  

1 hour ago, Explorer said:

I don't think they wanted to kill you, otherwise you would not be here.  Not sure if they would hurt you either.

Scare the hell out of you, yes.

 

 

 

Never said they wanted to kill me - 

 

Anyone that says, "If I"d have been there in that situation - I'd have (fill in the blank.)"  You're FOS.

 

I still don't know if there's such a thing as Bigfoot.  I know there's some butt-ugly cave men - but I've never seen a Bigfoot.

 

Don't care if I ever find out.

 

 

[wiiawiwb]

FarArcher...I have a question for you regarding your use of the word "cavemen" when you refer to them. Did they have the same appearance that is a common them in many sasquatch reports....no neck, sagital crest, etc? Also, was their face more human or apelike in appearance?

 

http://www.sybillairwin.com/witness-sketches.html

 

https://sasquatchchronicles.com/this-is-what-patty-would-look-like-up-close/

[Caenus]

I would have found it hard to camp next to a kill that was left out. I would assume that it would have attracted something hungry. I definitely would have put a game cam on it. My understanding is it was too difficult to get to?