The Squatch advantage

[NathanFooter]

17 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

 

 

 Take it from a guy who has spent hundreds of hours with his face smashed into a thermal viewfinder, there is nothing in this video but a low hanging twig with a couple leaves danging fairy close to a very low resolution thermal camera.  I have used the XP 200's ( this very unit ) for several years and can tell you there is nothing odd about this video.

 

 I am sorry to say that according to the track record ( pun ),  sasquatch are just as clear as you and me on a thermal camera.

[hiflier]

36 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

I am sorry to say that according to the track record ( pun ),  sasquatch are just as clear as you and me on a thermal camera.

 

Agreed, and not saying anything that counters that now that I'm a bit more into this subject. I posted this in my last post http://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2015/11/05/can-sound-waves-generate-heat/ but thought it should be bumped to this page. I'm still on the trail of a flesh and blood creature like you say but also am of the opinion that infrasound plays a part in that. I think it's a mechanism that helps get prey, and create apprehension- like maybe when there's a bear in the area- with the result of creating confusion or even fear. Sasquatch may not know those are the effects, they just may know that when the utter low frequencies thing happen that benefit them.

 

Sound creates heat when it hits something whether it be air, objects, clothing, animals, Humans, or whatever. It's isn't a lot of heat by any means but it is heat nonetheless and a sensitive thermal imager should be able to see that heat signature moving through the air although, as I mentioned, the speed of even low frequency sound  say around 10 Hz still moves fairly fast. In fact I just found that it moves just as fast as higher frequencies which move at around 330 m/s https://www.quora.com/Are-the-speeds-of-ultrasonic-infrasonic-and-audible-waves-the-same

 

That says that whatever is on the videos at least negates my hypothesis of being able to have a thermal device "see" infrasound. If I don't continue digging at this stuff then I learn nothing. I post and research almost at the same time as thoughts come into my head. Yep, it may look like I'm contradicting myself at times but that what learning can result in. And I don't mind because I'm learning as I go. So flesh and blood creature, may emit ultrasound, sound results in heat when hitting different molecules, but cannot see ultrasound propagation wave with a thermal imager. That's where I stand right now. Education is a beautiful thing!

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by hiflier

[MIB]

59 minutes ago, hiflier said:

If the propagation of infrasound waves caused the compressed air (bow wave if you will) to cool then the thermal images would appear darker, not lighter, than surrounding ambient air. Let's start with this as an overview: http://wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/2015/11/05/can-sound-waves-generate-heat/

 

Agreed.  

 

The followup questions should include how much temperature change is required for optical effects to become apparent, how much temperature change is required to show a difference on thermal imaging equipment (in other words, threshold of detection), distance from the infrasound source to whatever device (eyes, thermal imager), and how intense the sound source has to be to generate sufficient heat at that distance.   Then we'd need to consider what other effects that much sound energy would also trigger and how we can detect such effects to verify the proposed infrasound is actually what's responsible.  

 

It's a cool idea.   Laboratory testing is required to change speculation to verification.   Do you have the ability to do that testing?  

[hiflier]

I do not but I have reached an understanding of the process of infrasound generating heat when things get in the way of an infrasound wave whether it be air molecules, clothing, Humans, or trees. Anything that interferes with the natural flow of the wave actually. But, as the second link states, beyond temperature effects, sound travels at the same 300m/s whether generated at 10 Hz or 10,000. The only difference is the length of the wave. Sure amplitude plays a part but one is into getting into sound pressure variables at that point (decibel levels). Forensic studies have even been done on the larynx of a deceased elephant.

 

A curious thing has come from my looksee though. Heating air can generate infrasound. I may make sense that expelling a volume of warm air from a large lung capacity could result in infrasound. So a combination of 'singing/humming' through large vocal chords with a large volume of warm air would make sense for generating infrasound. But what kind of actual pressure gets deployed is anyone's guess, Suffice it to say for this thread, NathanFooter's post does merit consideration  

[ShadowBorn]

Let's say that heat was generated by them through infrasound , then the thermo's would pick up on this and show this wave of generated wave of heat coming from the creature. We would then not have this stealth mode that they some how seem to show on these thermos. If this was so then this heat wave would have to be generated through out the entire body of the creature. This is not what these thermos are picking up and what I am seeing is more of a bending of light.That what ever source of picture is on one side of the creature is now being projected to the other side of the creature that is being filmed. Sure thermos pick up on heat and coldness but it also is a camera which also picks up on light. But these creatures do not know this so how is it that they are some how in this stealth mode when researchers are using thermos. And if they are using infrasound then why are the people with the thermos not being effected by the infrasound since it would take a lot to produce the effect that is taking place on those films. When I was on the stand and seen and heard why was I not effected by them in their stealth mode if they were using infrasound.

 

I have been effected by them before when I was warned and it was not a good feeling and layed me out for a week in bed.So how are they able to respond and not effect others with in a party that is filming them?.There must be some high frequency to generate  enough heat to effect these thermos. This high energy must effect them as well to be able to generate this frequency. when they do this task it must make them weak afterwards.

Nathan

I have seen them clear on a thermos as well. But I have also seen them in this so called stealth mode with my own two eye's in person with out a doubt in foley swamp and also in another area of lower south east Michigan. And the  last time I seen this really freaked me out and gave me the willies. It took me back a few steps back and made me think of what I am really doing out here wanting to learn about them. I did not want to be on TV or on any news paper article but needed to release what bothered me. They are very unnerving but at the same time can teach you a lot about your self. You just have not been hit yet . But when it does happen you have a friend here.

[NathanFooter]

1 hour ago, ShadowBorn said:

Let's say that heat was generated by them through infrasound , then the thermo's would pick up on this and show this wave of generated wave of heat coming from the creature. We would then not have this stealth mode that they some how seem to show on these thermos. If this was so then this heat wave would have to be generated through out the entire body of the creature. This is not what these thermos are picking up and what I am seeing is more of a bending of light.That what ever source of picture is on one side of the creature is now being projected to the other side of the creature that is being filmed. Sure thermos pick up on heat and coldness but it also is a camera which also picks up on light. But these creatures do not know this so how is it that they are some how in this stealth mode when researchers are using thermos. And if they are using infrasound then why are the people with the thermos not being effected by the infrasound since it would take a lot to produce the effect that is taking place on those films. When I was on the stand and seen and heard why was I not effected by them in their stealth mode if they were using infrasound.

 

I have been effected by them before when I was warned and it was not a good feeling and layed me out for a week in bed.So how are they able to respond and not effect others with in a party that is filming them?.There must be some high frequency to generate  enough heat to effect these thermos. This high energy must effect them as well to be able to generate this frequency. when they do this task it must make them weak afterwards.

Nathan

I have seen them clear on a thermos as well. But I have also seen them in this so called stealth mode with my own two eye's in person with out a doubt in foley swamp and also in another area of lower south east Michigan. And the  last time I seen this really freaked me out and gave me the willies. It took me back a few steps back and made me think of what I am really doing out here wanting to learn about them. I did not want to be on TV or on any news paper article but needed to release what bothered me. They are very unnerving but at the same time can teach you a lot about your self. You just have not been hit yet . But when it does happen you have a friend here.

 

 I appreciate your consideration of perspectives but respectfully, I can't buy into it.     I am not going to question your encounter or even form an opinion.

 

 I have been off the map more than a time or two and I have had more than a couple interactions.   I have never found, heard or experienced anything paranormal during an encounter with a saquatch.

 

 The majority of the claims made by the very people uploading these sasquatch videos ( twig videos ) and bigfoot stick signs ( more twig videos ) can't stand up to the heavy breathing of a toddler.   If there is no substance or measurable consistency behind what is said then the words are worthless.  They can't put anything on the table that has more to offer than a story.

 

  Funny how the people who put in the time collecting/charting data end up getting thermal video, casting clear tracks, photographing finger prints, locating ground nests and recording clean vocalizations that match no known wildlife. 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 I appreciate your consideration of perspectives but respectfully, I can't buy into it.     I am not going to question your encounter or even form an opinion.

 

 I have been off the map more than a time or two and I have had more than a couple interactions.   I have never found, heard or experienced anything paranormal during an encounter with a saquatch.

 

 The majority of the claims made by the very people uploading these sasquatch videos ( twig videos ) and bigfoot stick signs ( more twig videos ) can't stand up to the heavy breathing of a toddler.   If there is no substance or measurable consistency behind what is said then the words are worthless.  They can't put anything on the table that has more to offer than a story.

 

  Funny how the people who put in the time collecting/charting data end up getting thermal video, casting clear tracks, photographing finger prints, locating ground nests and recording clean vocalizations that match no known wildlife. 

 

Good points Nathan, but even those things are not enough for science. You need the foot, not the track cast. You need the finger, not the photo. You need the vocal cords....not the recording. Thats substance. Everything else is written off by science with the cool stories or hoaxes. 

 

 

 

 

[hiflier]

Norseman, you nailed it right there.

 

Hi ShadowBorn. There is a misunderstanding going on. There would be no more heat generated by a Sasquatch if it emitted infrasound that what its own body heat would be. Infrasound itself is not heat. But when an infrasound wave is interrupted the object that absorbs the infrasound will show a rise it ITS temperature. It's like when sunlight hits an object painted black. The object will absorb the sunlight's energy and warm up. The same thing happens when infrasound is absorbed by objects.

 

That said, an elephant will expel its own body heat as it 'sings". A volcano by the same token expel its heat into cooler air and therefore will have not only its own natural heat signature but an infrasound one as well. An object absorbing that infrasound say, 1,000 miles away will, according to infrasound studies, experience a slight increase in its ambient heat. Anything, whether it be a volcano or a mammal will not be generating any added heat beyond its natural heat. The Sun has a level of heat. In space there is no sun heat, it's all just protons, Heat will be generated though when those protons strike a surface, like an atmosphere or some other object. Infrasound acts the same way.

 

So with a thermal one will not see a higher ball of heat emitted from an animal. Any infrasound emission will only be at body temperature, cool down almost immediately in air and then slightly heat an object the sound strikes. A microwave oven for example is a higher energy version of infrasound. Sound isn't heat, it only creates heat on an object in its path. The reverse is also true, though: heating something will create infrasound. Hope I haven't confused things. I very much doubt there is any cloaking going on with Sasquatch. I WOULD be very interested to find out whether or not infrasound signatures can be seen with thermals because of their waves hitting air molecules though!

 

One thing is certain though infrasound waves WILL cause increases in atmospheric temperatures https://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/10/1431/2010/nhess-10-1431-2010.pdf I just don't know if the increase is enough to be detected as a difference by a thermal imaging device. Maybe, but only if the device is super sensitive to such changes?

Edited May 30, 2018 by hiflier

[NathanFooter]

12 hours ago, norseman said:

 

Good points Nathan, but even those things are not enough for science. You need the foot, not the track cast. You need the finger, not the photo. You need the vocal cords....not the recording. Thats substance. Everything else is written off by science with the cool stories or hoaxes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 I understand the demand science has stated but I am not heading that direction, I will leave that aspect out of my hands.       

 

 The direction I am pushing for is clear video in collaboration with clean DNA sources, this will at least get the ball rolling as DNA is a form of raw data born of substance.   

 

 After a novel sequence has been collected through some form of methodology the results can then be replicated.   At that point, the ball is in the court of the academics. 

 

 I do admit that I am working backwards here, one could argue that morality does not normally follow the path of simplicity. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by NathanFooter
typo removal

[norseman]

27 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 I understand the demand science has stated but I am not heading that direction, I will leave that aspect out of my hands.       

 

 The direction I am pushing for is clear video in collaboration with clean DNA sources, this will at least get the ball rolling as DNA is a form of raw data born of substance.   

 

 After a novel sequence has been collected through some form of methodology the results can then be replicated.   At that point, the ball is in the court of the academics. 

 

 I do admit that I am working backwards here, one could argue that morality does not normally follow the path of simplicity. 

 

How much more clear video do we need? The PGF is clear video. So is Todd Standings eye blink video. Which one is the hoax? Both? Neither? Science doesnt deal in Sasquatch videos.....either. 

 

DNA is a whole nother animal. The right pile of scat or the right hair could change everything. Good luck in that endeavor....seriously. This is where I would concentrate my efforts other than bullets, if I was so inclined. If there was a free DNA lab for scat, I would be sending in samples for sure.

 

Not going to preach a bunch but as far as morality? That comes after the animal is proven to science. Not before. Prolonging this search could bring about its own destruction. And maybe our own. We need all of the wild forest, wild salmon, wilderness advocates we can get.

 

 

 

 

[ShadowBorn]

Nathan

I am not going to argue this either but I have been wondering why if you had a sighting in Michigan you went west for more sightings.  If what Midnight Owl says is true about some of us Humans being marked by these creatures then us marked Humans should have no problem going anywhere and having a sighting in any place where there is forest. Finding prints , tree markers and all that is just sign of them being in an area like you would be hunting deer and elk or bear. The tracking is the tricky part and they will out track you before you can track them.  But then again I have no experience and data means nothing to me. If the data was right then there would be a creature lying dead on a table right now being studied and we would know what they are. So far nothing and I am pretty sure that the military already has one. So all we can do now is try to prove our theories and see how close we are to these theories of what they may be. I have taken the unnatural road and most are not so fond of this road and wish not to speak of it. But I believe that we should keep an open mind to it. I still believe that they are flesh and blood cause if they were not there would be no evidence of them that they have left behind. I too have collected a bunch evidence but they mean nothing in this field unless you have a body that proves they are real. With out a body everything that has been said about these creatures are just stories and nothing else. A myth that has been spoken for years and I have to learn to accept this even though I have actually interacted with them. These thermals do not lie and they pick up what we cannot see. If there is some thing on these thermals it is flesh and blood and it is giving off a signature it might look like it is invisible but it has a signature to the thermal. That needs to be investigated and find out why it is happening.When Dave Mann was with us in northern Michigan with his thermal we have always thought that it had some thing to do with it's hair.  Like polar bears and how they look for them with thermals in the artic. 

 

Hiflier

I am trying to understand on what you are try to convey. That the infrasound can generate heat in higher frequency  But I do not know how this would effect the creatures ability to make it self invisible in the viewers eye of the thermal. That when the viewer would go back and replay what he/she was video taping would find the anomaly of the invisible creature which is known as stealth mode. The thermal is meant to pick up heat and cold of any object in it's view finder. If anything the creature is more likely to be able to control it's body temperature. This would make it invisible to the thermal. The infra sound surely would have to have effected the view of the thermal in some way? No! I finally brought a flir so I am ready to use it and will see for my self what is going on for the first time valuable tool. So I look forward to using it . I will tested it out. 

[NathanFooter]

6 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

How much more clear video do we need? The PGF is clear video. So is Todd Standings eye blink video. Which one is the hoax? Both? Neither? Science doesnt deal in Sasquatch videos.....either. 

 

DNA is a whole nother animal. The right pile of scat or the right hair could change everything. Good luck in that endeavor....seriously. This is where I would concentrate my efforts other than bullets, if I was so inclined. If there was a free DNA lab for scat, I would be sending in samples for sure.

 

Not going to preach a bunch but as far as morality? That comes after the animal is proven to science. Not before. Prolonging this search could bring about its own destruction. And maybe our own. We need all of the wild forest, wild salmon, wilderness advocates we can get.

 

 

 

 

 

 Todd has not put out anything to suggest a person or puppet is incapable of what we see in the videos, I talked with him years ago to get him to try an use the MIT blood- flow software on his portraits.  He said he would run it on his videos and publish that information and he never did so.   

 

 

 This would be an easy point of conversion if I could sit here and tell you that they are simply animals.   I would greatly enjoy taking off the chain but my 2009 experience has left me here. 

 

 I would dare say it is like saying I found a new race of people living in deep in the forest of Canada, now it becomes a harder to say we should drop one to prove they exist.

 

 I feel that they do not fall as closely to the other known apes as we would like to think, we can't go much farther here as we would have to get into what defines the the title of human.

12 minutes ago, ShadowBorn said:

Nathan

I am not going to argue this either but I have been wondering why if you had a sighting in Michigan you went west for more sightings. 

 

  I grew very tired of mapping areas out where reports where popping up only to have the area completely logged out after a year of investment.   This happened three times in my time in Michigan.

 

  These creatures seem to really like older growth evergreen swamp forest along river corridors in the state of MI, winter access has also been a problem.

 

  The state of Washington offers so much more area and more terrain based movement predictability.

[norseman]

11 minutes ago, NathanFooter said:

 

 Todd has not put out anything to suggest a person or puppet is incapable of what we see in the videos, I talked with him years ago to get him to try an use the MIT blood- flow software on his portraits.  He said he would run it on his videos and publish that information and he never did so.   

 

 

 This would be an easy point of conversion if I could sit here and tell you that they are simply animals.   I would greatly enjoy taking off the chain but my 2009 experience has left me here. 

 

 I would dare say it is like saying I found a new race of people living in deep in the forest of Canada, now it becomes a harder to say we should drop one to prove they exist.

 

 I feel that they do not fall as closely to the other known apes as we would like to think, we can't go much farther here as we would have to get into what defines the the title of human.

 

I dont disagree that they may very well be a distant cousin of humans. Maybe they would be classified as a species in the genus Homo? We simply do not know without a body.

 

But It changes nothing. Obviously they are not human enough for you to barter to marry the chiefs daughter because you have brought mirrors, beads and jelly donuts. You could then just swab yer brides mouth....

 

So where does that leave us?

 

Ill say no more because I do not want to be percieved as beating up one of my favorite researchers Nathan!

 

Stay safe out there bud!

Edited May 30, 2018 by norseman

[ioyza]

2 hours ago, NathanFooter said:

Todd has not put out anything to suggest a person or puppet is incapable of what we see in the videos, I talked with him years ago to get him to try an use the MIT blood- flow software on his portraits.  He said he would run it on his videos and publish that information and he never did so.

 

I actually tried that for a little while when those came out - it was a lot more complicated than I bargained for and I couldn't get anything useful. Definitely not just a matter of "run this video through our software and see blood flow!"

[hiflier]

3 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

That the infrasound can generate heat in higher frequency  But I do not know how this would effect the creatures ability to make it self invisible in the viewers eye of the thermal. That when the viewer would go back and replay what he/she was video taping would find the anomaly of the invisible creature which is known as stealth mode

 

What I've been finding in the research is that air molecules can heat up slightly when hit with an infrasound wave. IF Sasquatch generates infrasound then it was my hypothesis that what is seen on these videos IS the heat signature from when the infrasound wave was moving through the air. I was thinking that that's what the thermal imagers were capturing. Not a cloaked creature but rather the evidence of heat generated by its infrasound wave passing through the air and striking the molecules.

 

I'm not saying that that's definitely what the thermals are picking up until I do more research into things. I just don't know if the thermal imagers that the researchers in the videos are using are sensitive enough to 'see' the infrasound alter the air temperature is it moves through it. It they AR that sensitive then I vote for the imagers detecting the infrasound wave as it's moving through the air and since it is detected as a heat difference it gets picked up. So no, not cloaking Sasquatches- only heated air from the bow wave of an infrasound wave moving through it. Just need more research to support the idea. The article has gotten me closer to the phenomenon.