45 acp vs 10mm

[Huntster]

Lots of Alaskan guides and outdoorsmen have gone with the Glock 20 as their sidearm.

 

There is currently a significant shift in attitudes regarding handgun defense against bears, including BIG bears.

 

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5R5o1ckGT

 

Here’s an interesting recent case of an Alaskan guide killing a coastal brown bear with his 9mm (why he’s marching clients through the brush with a 9 mm on his side is beyond me).

 

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/8/10/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

 

Apparently, non-hollow point ammo, either hardcast or FMJ, is key in order to gain maximum penetration through heavy bone and solid muscle, but that shouldn’t be a surprising new fact. I’ve always loaded lead nosed FMJ ammo in my outdoors sidearms. Frankly, I’m still of the attitude that my sidearm is for fighting my way back to my rifle, which I never should have left behind to begin with. I prefer my 16” Marlin 336 in 30-30 over my Glock 20..........any day.

[wiiawiwb]

My Glock 40 MOS fits in my hand like a 2 by 4. It is also the most accurate firearm I shoot. Go figure.

[TritonTr196]

I always carry my Kimber ultra carry 1911 45 with the crimson green laser handle grips everyday. It's a pleasure to shoot and deadly accurate for a small size 1911. Fits on my side great and not that heavy like a full size 1911. I have other larger caliber handguns I carry on a rare occasion in certain Bigfoot areas. But I'm not that tall and I don't weigh a lot so carrying my super redhawk would be like me walking around trying to smoke a romeo y julieta magnum. Either one is liable to tip me over when I least expect it. 

[WV FOOTER]

• Glock 20SF shooting 180gr. Hornady HP.  It will do the Trick, Although a Man I know who had a Big Squatch Cross the Road in front of his Peterbilt, said it wouldn't be enough gun. With 14+1 shots, I Beg to Differ. Using Advantage Competition Sights, I Hit Where I Aim. I Have Shot a 45, it will also pack a Wallop, But I prefer the 10mm.  Don't get the impression that I would shoot a Squatch, Unless it wanted to get too friendly.

[Huntster]

21 minutes ago, WV FOOTER said:

• Although a Man I know who had a Big Squatch Cross the Road in front of his Peterbilt, said it wouldn't be enough gun.........

 

I know the feeling. I’ve seen a bear so big that had I not been inside a cabin, it might have got my knees knocking. He was standing on the back side of the meat shack on two legs (and much taller than the shed) pulling deer heads off the roof. When my partner shone his powerful light in its eyes from the window, it didn’t like it. It shook its head back and forth and roared. I was screaming at Paul to turn the d****d light off......but I didn’t like the darkness any better with that monster outside that flimsy cabin.........

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

 

I know the feeling. I’ve seen a bear so big that had I not been inside a cabin, it might have got my knees knocking. He was standing on the back side of the meat shack on two legs (and much taller than the shed) pulling deer heads off the roof. When my partner shone his powerful light in its eyes from the window, it didn’t like it. It shook its head back and forth and roared. I was screaming at Paul to turn the d****d light off......but I didn’t like the darkness any better with that monster outside that flimsy cabin.........

 

I wonder if like canines? Bears are blind to red light?

 

Yah, even our Griz here are not on the same playing field as Alaska brownies. Not that 600 lbs of pissed off aggression will end well either.

 

Hey! Glad your out of the klink bud! Makes our discussions out here enriched!

1 hour ago, WV FOOTER said:

• Glock 20SF shooting 180gr. Hornady HP.  It will do the Trick, Although a Man I know who had a Big Squatch Cross the Road in front of his Peterbilt, said it wouldn't be enough gun. With 14+1 shots, I Beg to Differ. Using Advantage Competition Sights, I Hit Where I Aim. I Have Shot a 45, it will also pack a Wallop, But I prefer the 10mm.  Don't get the impression that I would shoot a Squatch, Unless it wanted to get too friendly.

 

A pistol is only good to fight your way to a rifle!

[Huntster]

Officially, brown bears can weigh up to 1500 lbs. But I swear that particular bear looked like a full ton to me. He made that shed look like a little dog house. I simply can’t imagine being in a tent with monsters like that around. I blew off deer hunting on Kodiak. In addition to being crazy expensive, bear mailings there among deer hunters is quite high. The bears regard gunshots as a dinner bell.

[norseman]

That show about admiralty island brownies showed a bear 6.5 feet at the shoulder.....

 

I had a 18 hand mule once....Big Sam. He weighed 1800 lbs. 18 hands = 6 ft at the shoulder. 

 

 

 

[Huntster]

I’ve seen photos of gigantic bears killed prior to WWII even here in the Susitna Valley. And there are still lots of thousand pounders running around. Shooting something like that with a handgun would be emergency use only..........and Katie, bar the door!........

[norseman]

I would just hope that a coastal brownie had ate enough Salmon the day I met him to skip the “turf” portion of “surf and turf”.

 

[wiiawiwb]

9 hours ago, norseman said:

That show about admiralty island brownies showed a bear 6.5 feet at the shoulder.....

 

I had a 18 hand mule once....Big Sam. He weighed 1800 lbs. 18 hands = 6 ft at the shoulder. 

 

 

 

 

"Fear Island" aka Kootznoowoo aka Admiralty Island aka остров страха.  Great show. The bear was nicknamed Grandfather.

 

They followed it to Tsaagwaa Mtn and got permission from the Tlingit tribe to go on ancestral land where no Tlingit had been in 400 years and no outsider had ever been. Twice, the bear broke trip lines set at 6'. On a tree near a day bed they found horizontal claw marks at 10' meaning the bear that made those marks was at least another 3' tall. That makes that bear the largest ever recorded.

 

I'd watch the two-hour show if anyone gets a chance. Absolutely riveting.

 

The Tlingit tracker, Alvin Johnson, who led the group through Danger Point and up Tsaagway Mtn is my new hero. They'd send him out alone to "clear the area" before they proceeded.  "I'm on it..." he would say.  He was absolutely fearless.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weL7nYRcTg4

 

 

Spoiler

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Edited September 16, 2018 by wiiawiwb

[SWWASAS]

Two grizzly got a guide in the Tetons.     Sounds like they were bow hunting.      Why would you have your side arm in your pack in bear country?  Do bow hunting rules require that?   

 

 

 

"The body of a Wyoming field guide who was mauled by a bear while hunting elk has been found. Per USA Today, 37-year-old Mark Uptain and his client, Corey Chubon, shot an elk Thursday in Teton Wilderness but were initially unable to find the animal.

When they returned to the site of the kill Friday, the news site Buckrail reports the men were charged by two large bears. Chubon was able to flee and retrieve a handgun from his pack, but Uptain was pounced upon by one of the animals.

As Chubon attempted to shoot the bear, the animal turned on him and dragged him to the ground. He sustained injuries to his leg, chest, and arm but was able to get away and call for help.

A helicopter was sent to evacuate the hunters, but search personnel were not able to find Uptain on Friday evening and efforts were suspended. Meanwhile, Chubon was transported to a hospital for treatment.

The Florida bow hunter was released on Saturday as news broke that Uptain's body had been found. The remains of the father of five were discovered intact, per the Jackson Hole News & Guide.

Authorities have begun efforts to trap the bears, which a Wyoming Game and Fish Department spokesperson has said were likely grizzlies."

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, SWWASAS said:

Two grizzly got a guide in the Tetons.     Sounds like they were bow hunting.      Why would you have your side arm in your pack in bear country?  Do bow hunting rules require that?........

 

Archery hunt only might prohibit the possession of firearms, but I doubt it. If it does, this event will likely prompt a review. It’s more likely that the guys didn’t want to openly carry in order to avoid legal difficulties with aggressive fish and feathers officers.

 

Too bad, if so. Fish and feathers officers aren’t likely to kill you. They can certainly be a pain in the ass if they want to. But there is no way in Hell I’m going to let a bleeding ungulate lay overnight, then go looking for it the next day without artillery. I’m bringing the Big Guns on that scavenger hunt, because I’m expecting Mr. Trouble with his amazing nose to be there waiting for me with an attitude.

[SWWASAS]

Just saw they hunted down the sow and her cub that killed the guy.   I would think that a guide would have a weapon to protect the client.   If the law does not allow that,  things are plain nuts with the law.   

[norseman]

As Huntster pointed out. Its no longer a bow hunt if your going in a day later. In griz country chances are there is something on it. And the meat is probably wrecked anyhow. Better be loaded for bear.

 

As far as legalities? Its much better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

Lastly? Its the northern Rockies and no joke. This kinda stuff happens......unfortunately.