My Perspective and questions for you all

[ShadowBorn]

Swwasas

That print above seem to look like two prints in one. I can see that there is a smaller print right of the larger print nd then where you are measuring this print you can see the heel of the larger print at the end of the tape measure but above the tape measure and pass the tape measure.  This print looks very odd to me and I can see how you are measuring it but you should have also measured the toe part to the heel part of the second part of that track.  I have always found that once I have a heel of a track I have always started to search for the second part of the second foot of that track. Once I have found the right and left heel and was then able to find it's stride and was now able to track it's next step and so on. It would take me hours but I would get a direction of the creatures movement or direction. Most prints that I have found in my area were mostly flat footed and wide with that mid tarsal break that looked odd. I am flat footed and I cannot do what these creatures do with their feet on the forest floor when they walk. I am not sure but this must help them in their stealth mode when they become sneaky.

 

Is that print on the right of the larger foot your own or is that of a juvenile ?  That does kind a of have a mid tarsal break but that could be because of the flat foot. But there is that bend in the middle of that foot which shows like a bulge.

[Cotter]

21 hours ago, James33 said:

 

Cool - thanks for the link.  However it talks about animals being able to hear the sound of the camera and see the infrared when it snaps a photo.  This noise and light causes the animal to flee as it startles them. It doesn't see the camera and avoid it because it knows what it is. Which is why we get trail cam pics of bears, deer, etc. Of course if the animal comes back to the same area where the camera is over and over eventually, it seems to me, it would permanently leave the area or habituate to it once it realizes it poses no threat.  

 

Here you go:  neophobia documented in Alpha Coyotes.  Again, demonstrating an animal's ability to avoid camera traps.

 

https://fishgame.com/2018/02/alpha-coyotes-proven-avoid-game-cameras/

 

 

[Huntster]

^^^ Powerful article.^^^

 

It is well known among experienced hunters and trappers that bears and wolves do likewise. I hadn’t associated that activity to alpha animals, though. It makes perfect sense.

 

Can such predators count? In other words, if two men penetrate an area, build a good blind for one to stay, then the other leaves, does the predator know that one remains?

[SWWASAS]

18 hours ago, ShadowBorn said:

Swwasas

That print above seem to look like two prints in one. I can see that there is a smaller print right of the larger print nd then where you are measuring this print you can see the heel of the larger print at the end of the tape measure but above the tape measure and pass the tape measure.  This print looks very odd to me and I can see how you are measuring it but you should have also measured the toe part to the heel part of the second part of that track.  I have always found that once I have a heel of a track I have always started to search for the second part of the second foot of that track. Once I have found the right and left heel and was then able to find it's stride and was now able to track it's next step and so on. It would take me hours but I would get a direction of the creatures movement or direction. Most prints that I have found in my area were mostly flat footed and wide with that mid tarsal break that looked odd. I am flat footed and I cannot do what these creatures do with their feet on the forest floor when they walk. I am not sure but this must help them in their stealth mode when they become sneaky.

 

Is that print on the right of the larger foot your own or is that of a juvenile ?  That does kind a of have a mid tarsal break but that could be because of the flat foot. But there is that bend in the middle of that foot which shows like a bulge.

The tape is in the picture for size reference not in the position where I measured the print.     That mud was on the lake shore and was the result of what was described by the nearby camp host as a cloud burst at 2 AM.   .      An overprint on that soft mud as you suggest would show either the heel or the toes in the center of the footprint depending on which was put down first.     Since the toes are on one end and the heel impression on the other end are sharp you would expect either a heel or toe impression to be in the middle.   I believe it to be only a single footprint.   I don't see what you reference as my footprint which was not in the picture.    I was in deep mud when I took the picture.      The truely remarkable thing about it  was this was in the center of about a 20 by 20 patch of mud on the lake shore.     Behind where I was when I took the picture was the lake about 20 feet away.   It looked like the print makers had walked out of the lake and were heading for the wood line.     There were no footprints, either the central large one or the smaller 8 inch prints,  anywhere in the 20 X 20 patch of mud.   The only way that could have happened is if the maker of both prints, carefully walked on patches of vegetation to get to this point where they finally left a print.      I have seen this aversion to leaving prints several times.    Either they hate muddy feet, or they have some sort of avoidance protocol and go to great pains to avoid leaving footprints.    For me to get to this point to take the picture, I basically did the same thing and walked on patches of vegetation as much as I could to avoid getting my boots so muddy.  

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

Can such predators count? In other words, if two men penetrate an area, build a good blind for one to stay, then the other leaves, does the predator know that one remains?

 

Hunster, that is a great question. In my book I described a 'trap' that could possibly be set up in an attempt to secure a Sasquatch voucher specimen. There has been some iterations in the past that Sasquatch could count. The 'trap' described was a ploy to confound that possibility although I did write that I did not think that Sasquatch could in fact count. I expressed it instead as more of a strategic capacity involving positioning. In other words, three hogs in a clearing would necessitate a different attack strategy than if there were only two, or six. It wouldn't involve counting them as much as considering the spatial positioning needed for a successful outcome.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by hiflier

[Huntster]

I know that raptors (eagles) cannot count. I don’t know about other birds known for their intelligence like corvids, though.

[hiflier]

Thank you for posting the photo, SWWASAS. It is unquestionably a large print and certainly deep enough in the toe region to have shown claw impressions should it have been laid down by a bear; the only other possible candidate is a hoaxer? People hoax but it would appear that this isn't a case of hoaxing. The reason I say that is the depth of the heel section. One would think a hoaxer's print would be more even and not look like the photo where the entire print maker's weight was in the heel.

 

15 minutes ago, Huntster said:

I know that raptors (eagles) cannot count.

 

IDK. I think that when playing hide and seek with their offspring they might. You know, "thousand one.......thousand two......ready or not, here I come."

 

Oh. Wait a minute. That means they must be able to talk, too. Never mind  

Edited November 15, 2018 by hiflier

[Twist]

3 hours ago, Cotter said:

Here you go:  neophobia documented in Alpha Coyotes.  Again, demonstrating an animal's ability to avoid camera traps.

 

https://fishgame.com/2018/02/alpha-coyotes-proven-avoid-game-cameras/

 

 

 

This is a great article.  I have previously dismissed the idea that a BF purposefully avoids game cams. This suggests my thoughts should be reconsidered.  This is proof of an animal doing exactly that.   While I think the fact that alphas avoid and beta's are captured on game cam speaks for animal knowledge, it speaks volumes for animal instinct.   At least IMO.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Twist

[ShadowBorn]

Quote

Is that print on the right of the larger foot your own or is that of a juvenile ?

Sww

There is no mention of the other print being yours in my paragraph all I did was ask if it was yours.  Since the other print to the right looks like a juvenile and this is what I meant in my paragraph and that the larger print looks like that the younger must have stepped into the larger print making it look larger then it is. I  Just that I am not denying what you found nor am I denying that it is from a Bigfoot either. Just that the larger track looks odd since I can see the toes in the mud half way on the tape measure  and where the tape measure starts I can also see more toes. This is just my observation and that is all and you can freely refute it . Most tracks I find are hard to find and when I do find them I have to use my hands and fingers to feel the heel and the toes and well as the center of the foot which is usually like a bump and flat footed.

 

Hunster

Crows are very smart birds and I use them to find out where other hunters are located. They will usually crow over a human where they are sitting in a tree stand as they fly over them. The same goes with blue jays which are great alarm system in the forest. These creature I think that they do count since I had that feeling on my second encounter with Thermo ( David Mann) . Thermo and Jim both went to a creek while I stayed behind to go to sleep when one came into camp. The one that came into camp knew I was in my tent and came into our camp site with a rock in hand to take the salmon sitting next to the tree stump next to my tent. So I am sure that these creature know how to keep track of people with in a camp site. 

 

Now I assume that predators must keep track of numbers in order for them to know who they will attack for a meal. They just do not just jump into  fight for a meal to get hurt. They must be very calculating on who they will attack and that is usually that weakest. Maybe they do not see numbers like we do but see it differently.

[ShadowBorn]

4 hours ago, Cotter said:

Here you go:  neophobia documented in Alpha Coyotes.  Again, demonstrating an animal's ability to avoid camera traps.

 

https://fishgame.com/2018/02/alpha-coyotes-proven-avoid-game-cameras/

what make this different from Bigfoot? alphas coyotes that sit back and watch humans setting camera traps and avoiding them completely. Bigfoot does this very well where they will watch us and know what we are doing at all times in their environment and avoid it. Except that we call it mind reading and this is just the start of the deception when you are trying to get proof of them. I have seen deer do this where they will watch where hunters enter trails to their stands. They will be on midway of ridges along trails with the wind to their nose watching and sniffing for hunters. They will lay low and not move and just blend in. I have seen this on public hunting land where the deer are so use to the hunting pressure. These creatures probably do the same to us and sit back and laugh while we do our dumb things in trying to capture a picture of them. Sure we might get lucky every so often and catch one or two  but most of us just blow those pictures off as a hoax. But I will stop and just say that this is just my opinion. Opinions are just opinions and maybe mean less words that means nothing except to the person who wrote them. 

[Catmandoo]

https://fishgame.com/2018/02/alpha-coyotes-proven-avoid-game-cameras/  is an entertainment site that has paraphrased a very old research paper.  

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0110832#s2 is a good read. Slightly dated, but much better.  The Reconyx model HC600 used in the tests is a screamer in the ultrasonic region.

 

Coyote can smell our foot paths. Regardless of whether or not we are putting a trail cam in place, setting Coyote traps or hunting them with firearms, they know we are there/have been there. Some avoid us. All avoid a certain forum member who seems to shoot everything.

Coyotes can find and dig up buried traps. I have wondered if they can 'smell' the steel or just smell human even if scent blockers are used. And there is the question of disturbing the ground balance when a trap is buried. Concerning 'smelling' the steel traps, I wonder if they detect the  fe⁺⁺ isotope?    Fish in salt water inhabit steel hulled shipwrecks because they love the fe⁺⁺ that is released.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Catmandoo

[Doug]

Regarding crows, I have heard that Sasquatch habituators say that Saquatches leave gifts. I friend of mine's daughter and grandson feed the crows around their place and the crows leave gifts for them in the place where the food was. They have all kinds of stuff like cloth, flowers, pieces of shiny metal, a little dog figurine and so on.

[hiflier]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

Regarding crows, I have heard that Sasquatch habituators say that Saquatches leave gifts. I friend of mine's daughter and grandson feed the crows around their place and the crows leave gifts for them in the place where the food was. They have all kinds of stuff like cloth, flowers, pieces of shiny metal, a little dog figurine and so on.

 

Highly interesting, Doug. Could answer a few things. Not everything perhaps but I like that what you say is closer to something we KNOW to exist  Patty was real. Today it is GAME ON to discover a live Sasquatch that photographs well.

[SWWASAS]

19 hours ago, hiflier said:

Thank you for posting the photo, SWWASAS. It is unquestionably a large print and certainly deep enough in the toe region to have shown claw impressions should it have been laid down by a bear; the only other possible candidate is a hoaxer? People hoax but it would appear that this isn't a case of hoaxing. The reason I say that is the depth of the heel section. One would think a hoaxer's print would be more even and not look like the photo where the entire print maker's weight was in the heel.

 

 

IDK. I think that when playing hide and seek with their offspring they might. You know, "thousand one.......thousand two......ready or not, here I come."

 

Oh. Wait a minute. That means they must be able to talk, too. Never mind  

And how would you suggest a bear got into a 20 by 20 patch of mud without leaving any other prints.      Not one?    Not likely bear unless it could fly.       Hoaxer always possible but when I could not get to the print to photograph and measure it without leaving my own prints,  I cannot understand how a hoaxer could have pulled it off unless the hoaxer was the 8 inch print.       I suppose because it was a mud flat a squeegee could have been used to smooth out the hoaxers prints.   But why would a hoaxer erase all prints but one close to the hoaxed one?       As far as weight distribution,  one cannot expect a biped that leaves prints trying to avoid stepping in mud to have normal weight distribution in that print,     I certainly don't.      Looking at the full size picture,     I see no claw marks.        The toe region is disturbed  with hints of toe nails but the  toes are not as well defined as the smaller 8 inch print.     I am guessing that was because mud from previous footsteps was clumped in the toe region whereas the 8 inch foot was clean when it stepped into this patch of mud.          This is discussion is precisely why Meldrum has never gotten anywhere with his cast collection.       There are alternative explanations for any print, including hoax.       He thought it authentic and wanted the cast.   

Edited November 16, 2018 by SWWASAS

[norseman]

Or roll....