Scientific and Academic Corruption

[MIB]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

 

I never said there was one. In fact there have been numerous FS employees who have come forward. Paul Freeman? Etc?

 

But if the government was threatening my family with bodily harm? I would keep quiet.......absolutely. Not saying that's happening...... just saying thats what it would take.

 

 

 

Yeah, I understand that.  I'm just trying to imagine a thing that would keep EVERYONE quiet.   Not everyone has family to threaten.   Some people would respond to such a threat with defiance by doing exactly what they were told not to.   There have been a few people poke their heads up but none have come forward with the sort of proof that I'd expect them to have if they were part of a conspiracy.    

 

I'm just overall not convinced there are very many people in government "in the know", I suspect most are like everyone else, believers or even knowers, but not in possession of "proof" or even particularly convincing evidence.  

 

[SWWASAS]

3 hours ago, MIB said:

 

Oh, I absolutely agree.  

 

However, regarding bigfoot, I do not believe there is a widespread conspiracy among gov't employees of various sorts to keep bigfoot under wraps.    What incentive could be offered, what threat could be made, to keep every single one of upwards of 100,000 potential whistle-blowers quiet?   You'd have to have something that appealed with equal effectiveness to those who think the public has a right to know, preservationists, those who think we need to wipe out the bigfoots, people who are just looking for fame for being the discoverer ... all those possible motives have to be silenced under one umbrella.  

 

I don't see it.   Norseman .. what could be offered to entice you to remain silent if you had absolute proof?   Hiflier .. what about you?   Anyone else in the conversation?    If you had proof, what could be offered or what could be threatened to silence you?

 

It is inconvenient for the conspiracy theorists, but it has to be considered.   How could such a conspiracy exist, what could it offer / threaten, and how could the conspiracy itself remain veiled yet affect so many people so effectively?

 

MIB

 

In a way your argument might actually point to the fact that there is some sort of coverup.      If BF exists and it does,   the fact that segments of the government must know that,  suggests not only a coverup but strong incentives must be in place to keep a lid on it.  Many incentives to protect national security include not only decades in prison but authorize the use of deadly force to protect it.                While the military will publically prosecute low level offenders as they did with Bradley Manning, Wikileaks thing,   they do that as a show trial warning to others.   The truly grievous offenders have secret trials.   When you get into spydom,  problem people are simply are removed.      If it wants to, the government can find incentives.    One cannot confuse the apparent disregard of politicians to security matters to what happens to those underlings who were not elected.     If what I say seems to point to keeping BF under wraps for reasons well beyond timber industry interests,  you are correct in looking at the incentives needed to do that.    Employees of the Forest Service are not going to protect fat cat timber company executives with whom they have an adversarial relationship but there may be other reasons worthy of their silence.   

Edited October 9, 2018 by SWWASAS

[Huntster]

4 hours ago, MIB said:

......what could be offered to entice you to remain silent if you had absolute proof?   Hiflier .. what about you?   Anyone else in the conversation?    If you had proof, what could be offered or what could be threatened to silence you?......

 

1) My career, which was no small thing to me and my family

2) Shame. I’m not going to be the guy who spilled the beans. I want my peers and leaders to respect me.

3) Non-disclosure agreements, which was what they used in areas that they truly wanted to keep quiet. Blow that, and you can be in deep doo doo.

 

I think it’s important to remember that few among those hundreds of thousands of employees actually get personal exposure to the phenomenon, and for example, even the majority of those just get a member of the public submitting a report with nothing to back it up. No need to get that employee to sign a NDA. 

 

And when a few employees approach roach management and ask why they aren’t pursuing reports, they get the same song and dance we get; no money to waste.

 

For those who might have actually seen one and report it to supervision, they’re just belittled like everybody else in the public world, and they end up submitting semi-anonymous BFRO reports like everybody else.

[Twist]

2 hours ago, MIB said:

 

Yeah, I understand that.  I'm just trying to imagine a thing that would keep EVERYONE quiet.   Not everyone has family to threaten.   Some people would respond to such a threat with defiance by doing exactly what they were told not to.   There have been a few people poke their heads up but none have come forward with the sort of proof that I'd expect them to have if they were part of a conspiracy.    

 

I'm just overall not convinced there are very many people in government "in the know", I suspect most are like everyone else, believers or even knowers, but not in possession of "proof" or even particularly convincing evidence.  

 

 

^^ This 100%.   You WOULD NOT, imo, keep this secret given the sheer number of ppl required on a federal level to keep it secret.   The secret would have leaked.  

 

 

If BF were as widespread as presumed, based off reports.   You could not keep it off a car or semis hood.  

 

They are smart, so are humans, by a large margin,   We get hit in the road.   They should too.....

 

 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

 

^^ This 100%.   You WOULD NOT, imo, keep this secret given the sheer number of ppl required on a federal level to keep it secret.   The secret would have leaked.  

 

 

If BF were as widespread as presumed, based off reports.   You could not keep it off a car or semis hood.  

 

They are smart, so are humans, by a large margin,   We get hit in the road.   They should too.....

 

 

 

Yes, but I will say this. How many people are in our military? Does the military keep secrets? Yes. How? You are made to swear an oath under penalty of law if you break that oath. But whistleblowers happen, but it would seem they are easily discredited and marginalized.

 

As far as getting hit on the road? We have had reports of things hit on the road. We have had COP dash cams of things on the road. Right? Its like the age old question of why we dont have camera trap photos of Bigfoot.....when we do. Its just that we easily dismiss them like whistleblowers.

[Twist]

There are plenty of cases of whistleblowers in the US military.  For various reasons, murder, rape, extortion, etc.   

[norseman]

2 hours ago, Twist said:

There are plenty of cases of whistleblowers in the US military.  For various reasons, murder, rape, extortion, etc.   

 

Sure....... but you do not think the US military can keep a top secret program secret? Some things are not as valued as others.

[Catmandoo]

5 hours ago, Twist said:

If BF were as widespread as presumed, based off reports.   You could not keep it off a car or semis hood.  

^^ Twist,

How many cougars end up on car or semi hoods?  Mountain beavers?  Animals are adapted to hiding.  Google "Leif Bearickson". The bear  evaded capture within Seattle city limits for 2 weeks. Made the bear dog look bad. We have had cougars in residential neighborhoods. They travel the BNSF railrosd tracks. They are good at it. I think that Seattle is the global center for raccoons. Huge population.

 

Animals do not have to end up as hood ornaments to verify their existence.

 

[hiflier]

There are around 30,000 cougars in the Western U.S. How many are seen or hit by a vehicle? Does anyone really think there are anywhere near that many Sasquatches? I think a high number for the Western U.S might be 2,000 and for a low number around 500. Grizzlies in the U.S? About 1,500. People do see Grizzlies. People rarely fully see a Sasquatch. BTW the Florida Panther's (endangered) numbers are down to only about 100 individuals. If F&W know about cougars, grizzlies, and panthers, enough to count them then what else do they know about? Just how reclusive are Sasquatches. One would have to conclude: VERY.

Edited October 10, 2018 by hiflier

[wiiawiwb]

Area 51 has been kept quiet in spite of thousands (or tens of thousands of employees) over the years by means of non-disclosure agreements that have real teeth. Legal repercussions including jail time and forfeiture of a government pension. Can some people go rogue? Of course they can but as mentioned above they may find themselves horribly ridiculed, marginalized, threatened, and sued and no one wants to suffer any of that.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by wiiawiwb

[Twist]

If reports are an indicator of BF’s territory and activity, they are crossing roads and traversing in human habitat often in a majority of the US.   I see this as an issue, as I’ve stated many times my answer to this is most reports are incorrect and this is a relatively low population species.   

[hiflier]

19 minutes ago, Twist said:

......and this is a relatively low population species.

 

I wholly agree, Twist. The question remains then was always so or has there a decline in numbers that continues to shrink? It is why I mentioned the economic stakes involved in silently allowing this creature to go extinct before public discovery can be made or even allowed to be made. For myself, I think the monetary advantages of allowing the Sasquatch to go extinct are very great indeed. Way back when I started a thread called "Is Sasquatch A Secret?". I still do very much think that there is a policy of secrecy even though some info does get out from 'retired' individuals. Same pattern as the UFO thing: 'Retired' whistleblowers.

[MIB]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

Area 51 has been kept quiet in spite of thousands (or tens of thousands of employees) over the years by means of non-disclosure agreements that have real teeth. Legal repercussions including jail time and forfeiture of a government pension. Can some people go rogue? Of course they can but as mentioned above they may find themselves horribly ridiculed, marginalized, threatened, and sued and no one wants to suffer any of that.

 

While true, I'm not sure it's relevant.   The reason .. people were selected for Area 51, backgrounds checked, and they understood in advance that they'd be seeing things that had to be kept secret.   There is no such process for incoming USFS or BLM or NWS or NPS employees.    There are also a large number of civilians working our forests on gov't contract who have no pension to lose.    Ridicule only goes so far.   At a certain point, for a person with a spine, ridicule gets their dander up and makes it more likely they'll "show you" if they have the ability.   

[norseman]

2 hours ago, MIB said:

 

While true, I'm not sure it's relevant.   The reason .. people were selected for Area 51, backgrounds checked, and they understood in advance that they'd be seeing things that had to be kept secret.   There is no such process for incoming USFS or BLM or NWS or NPS employees.    There are also a large number of civilians working our forests on gov't contract who have no pension to lose.    Ridicule only goes so far.   At a certain point, for a person with a spine, ridicule gets their dander up and makes it more likely they'll "show you" if they have the ability.   

 

What we are looking for is someone with “weight” from government to come out and make a official announcement.

 

Civilian contractors and FS employees that change the TP rolls at campgrounds aint it. We already have testimony and reports of theirs.

 

https://www.fs.fed.us/about-agency/newsroom/leadership-biographies

 

FS leadership? Are they talking about it? No? Why? If you know they are out there MIB? Are we to believe the USFS leadership is blind to the issue? A multi billion dollar branch of the federal governement with 30,000 employees tasked with managing our forest lands?

 

I think that while I try to stay shy of conspiracy theories? If Bigfoot exists? As much shade as is thrown on the subject by government? I think at some level something must be going on.....

 

 

 

 

[MindSquatch]

10 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

Area 51 has been kept quiet in spite of thousands (or tens of thousands of employees) over the years by means of non-disclosure agreements that have real teeth. Legal repercussions including jail time and forfeiture of a government pension. Can some people go rogue? Of course they can but as mentioned above they may find themselves horribly ridiculed, marginalized, threatened, and sued and no one wants to suffer any of that.

 

 

Nobody (employee) is going to see or know the full picture or knowledge of something happening at area 51,52,53 or (54 dreamland) because it's compartmentalized. This is how's it done and will be be for the foreseeable future, even Lockheed does it's this way. If a Russian Spy wanted to find out what was happening on a secret project at Lockheed, he or she could possibly draw a picture if they could find a person who works in each compartment and become friends with them in different ways and somehow gets them to talk a little about what they're working on, and then draw a picture of it or close to it. The guys in nice black suits would be on this in a heartbeat and visiting you at your worksite or home. Only the top people who have a need to know are going to know the full picture, and they aren't  going to say a word, they will take it to their grave. 

I can't see Bigfoot being compartmentalized for research, but who knows. But those few who are aware of a captured or dead body of a Bigfoot aren't going to say a word, not even to their own family members. We the public will never be told the truth about Bigfoot existence, and rightly so. There are so many variables why they can't, and I can totally understand why, you just can't. Even though I go out hiking looking for rocks or just enjoy being out in nature, the Bigfoot thing to me is just an added something to keep aware of while out there.

Edited October 10, 2018 by MindSquatch