Poll: When Would An Announcement Of e-DNA Positive For Sasquatch Be Made?

[Arvedis]

If this is important why doesn't the Olympic Project have anything to say on this subject?  Their web site is a bit stale:  http://www.olympicproject.com.  This is the same group that is backing the study?  Then why would jeff meldrum need a crowdstarter campaign to fund the testing? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sasquatch-nests-edna-study#/ Is this the same thing?  is Wally Hersom out of cash?

 

No offense to any member of this forum but either DNA testing is above board with something valid to offer or it is just more smoke in the wind.  I see nothing here except a whole lot of nothing. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Arvedis

[BigTreeWalker]

18 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

If this is important why doesn't the Olympic Project have anything to say on this subject? 

 

This sounds like more of a slam against the Olympic Project than anything else. 

Having experienced the fallout from premature revaluation, I can understand the OP's reluctance to make suppositions ahead of time. For those that have gone to the conferences in the PNW, the Olympic Project has kept everyone posted on the progress of the study of these nest sites.

This poll is simply people's opinions of what the results will be of this study. Honestly I haven't done the poll because it doesn't matter what I think will happen. My thoughts are to wait and see what happens. I'm interested in what they find using the eDNA method regardless of what the eventual results may be. 

[Catmandoo]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:05 AM, norseman said:

The easiest question to ask I guess is that is there any precedent?

 

Has eDNA discovered any new species?

 

Norseman posted this on the 15th ( he knows the answer ). I have not seen an answer to his question. Maybe I missed it.  However,  eDNA procedures compare results to a  DNA library of known results. Is anyone paying attention?  This warm and fuzzy nest activity is display activity.

 

On 11/15/2018 at 1:50 PM, WSA said:

As we were discussing over in a related thread, I don't believe the timing of any release of information matters much at all. It is the content of the release that matters and even a "home run" result will be dismissed for the lack of any prototype specimen for comparison and substantiation. For us enthusiasts, any DNA sample will be welcomed information to have. For the rest of the world, and the scientific community, the menu of the expected responses will be:

 

1. Unknown primate? Response:  Contamination or sequencing error.

2. Primate/Hominoid hybrid? Response: Contamination, sequencing error or hoax

3. Human? Response: Yawn!

 

We know this. Been here, done that. Only unless and until you have a body to point to and the ability to say with certainty, "THIS came from THAT over there" will DNA be of any real value as something tending to prove existence to anyone not already convinced.

 

^^^ Ditto.   I propose a new designation: "EDNA".  "EDNA", large case e,  is 'entertainment DNA'.  Classes required are Contamination 101 ( don't worry about field/ lab supplies, come as you are )  Chain of Custody 101 ---- always give your samples to a media dolly who then hands off to another media dolly.

 

I have seen one image of a human in a 'nest'. Small nest for a sasquatch. Way to contaminate. Display activity. Size/scale can be shown with measuring devices.  Is this the same group that showed us how the Elk laid down in the Skookum  Cast?

[hiflier]

3 hours ago, BigTreeWalker said:

For those that have gone to the conferences in the PNW, the Olympic Project has kept everyone posted on the progress of the study of these nest sites.

 

It is true. Updates are given at the conferences as well as through podcasts. The process goes this way. The results of any testing MUST go through a peer review process first and foremost. Premature announcements, as BigTreeWalker stated,are a no-no as far as the science community is concerned. I have mentioned this before earlier in this thread: A peer review of the test results has to occur. After that the results and any corroborative review(s) go on to being published in a scientific journal. Once that hurdle has been accomplished then and ONLY THEN will results be made public. That is the way things are done.

 

4 hours ago, Arvedis said:

Then why would jeff meldrum need a crowdstarter campaign to fund the testing? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sasquatch-nests-edna-study#/ Is this the same thing?  is Wally Hersom out of cash?

 

I am going to give the benefit of the doubt on this one. Why? In my mind it is complicated- but then it always is  Look, there has been so much dialogue wrapped around one particular point that I am a little surprised no one has brought it up before now. We have discussed numerous times about what disclosure could mean; what the ramifications might be. Speculation? Sure, but I think it still bears mentioning. There may be entities that DO NOT want disclosure. I was almost aghast when I first read or heard that the samples were being SENT to Dr. Todd Disotell !! If it was me wouldn't SEND anything. I would hand deliver those samples. Also, If I wanted to keep people off guard it would go down this way: Wally Herson would pay for everything, the samples would be collected and the e-DNA would be funded. The samples would then be personally delivered to Dr. Disotell. A year to year and a half later I would TELL the public that there was an indiegogo crowd source account to fund the testing. Basically the monies would then be used to reimburse Wally Herson. I would TELL the public that the samples were being 'sent' when in reality there were no samples to send.

 

How would I ever come up with this WAG? Because Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum actually DID collect the samples a year and a half ago. Now why would he sit on them for a year and a half until a measly $5,000 was collected? That makes no sense whatsoever. I think, and it is only what I think, but I think all the posturing was to insure that the samples were safe, the e-DNA testing was safe, and that the results would actually make it to peer review should something unknown have been discovered. Now, whether or not the results will actually make it to a scientific journal is something to consider.

 

Bottom line, something (or someone or a bunch of someone's) constructed those nest structures, Right? And I don't care if someone laid in one of the nests stark naked and even peed onto it. Any Human DNA will be filtered out as I am POSITIVE everyone that came in contact with those structured had their DNA tested. That is the way such things are done. It's done all the time. Dr. Disotell is smart- very smart and if anyone thinks he doesn't know HOW those samples were collected then that 'anyone' is somehow convinced that Dr. Meldrum doesn't know what he is doing. Dr. Meldrum DOES know what he is doing and so does everyone else involved in this Project. The group is not going to repeat the mistakes of the past and that was their dialogue from day one-which was May 2015- over 3 1/2 years ago!

 

Something created those nests and they are going to find out the who or what of all of it. For folks that haven's listened to any podcasts- especially "Monster X" I suggest you do. Because I think for many it seems like the nest discoveries happened fairly recently. I have also read someone say that the tract of private land is small. That may be compared to the large commercial wood companies but this area still goes for miles behind locked gates and is a substantial chunk of forest. The timber cruiser who first discovered the nests stated that in all of his 26 years working for the family that owns the land he has never run across anything like these structures. And the entire thing has been documented from the beginning.

 

And yep. There was an image of a Human in a nest, Cliff Barackman has an image with him on one as well. There are 21 nests though. Does anyone think anyone laid in any nest before samples were taken? Or that someone laid in ALL of them? There is a lot that people simply don't know about the care that has been taken with this find.

Edited November 24, 2018 by hiflier

[MIB]

Think it through: e-DNA testing makes it irrelevant whether a person, known or unknown, had laid in the nests.    Things lying in the nest do not remove other occupants' DNA, they only add their own.  What can be determined with e-DNA is that there is either something new and novel or there is not.    Unless bigfoot is truly human, from a DNA standpoint, the presence of human contamination doesn't matter.   

 

MIB

[gigantor]

16 minutes ago, MIB said:

Unless bigfoot is truly human, from a DNA standpoint, the presence of human contamination doesn't matter.

 

Correct. The only drawback is that e-DNA is not permanent, it is time sensitive.

[hiflier]

MIB and gigantor you are both correct. And DNA survival over time can depend not only on the type of soil but climatic conditions over time as well.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

That is very interesting and ruling out modern human is certainly a great help. Being  time   sensitive should  not be a  major drawback with all the reported sightings if the creature does exists .

The nests of course would have to be currently used  I presume. How much time are we talking about ?  

 

[Arvedis]

5 hours ago, hiflier said:

There may be entities that DO NOT want disclosure. I was almost aghast when I first read or heard that the samples were being SENT to Dr. Todd Disotell !! If it was me wouldn't SEND anything. I would hand deliver those samples. Also, If I wanted to keep people off guard it would go down this way: Wally Herson would pay for everything, the samples would be collected and the e-DNA would be funded. The samples would then be personally delivered to Dr. Disotell. A year to year and a half later I would TELL the public that there was an indiegogo crowd source account to fund the testing. Basically the monies would then be used to reimburse Wally Herson. I would TELL the public that the samples were being 'sent' when in reality there were no samples to send.

 

How would I ever come up with this WAG? Because Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum actually DID collect the samples a year and a half ago. Now why would he sit on them for a year and a half until a measly $5,000 was collected? That makes no sense whatsoever. I think, and it is only what I think, but I think all the posturing was to insure that the samples were safe, the e-DNA testing was safe, and that the results would actually make it to peer review should something unknown have been discovered. Now, whether or not the results will actually make it to a scientific journal is something to consider.

 

It would be really good for Bigfootery if the government meddling angle was quashed.  It's bunk.  Do you realize the quantity of science in the mainstream right now?  Do you realize the vast expanses of impacts that occur on a daily basis from all sectors of science that is published?  It would require hours and hours of manpower to cover.  Gov agencies have bigger fish to fry, much bigger and more important stuff with their budgets.  Bigfoot is not a priority nor on the radar of the U.S. government.  Whatever "they" are doing has nothing at to do with anything even partially or inadvertently to do with Bigfoot. "They" are simply not interested and to bring that crap into the discussion is what makes Bigfootery a joke to everyone outside the Bigfootery bubble.  Lose it.  It's irrelevant.  Focus on facts and facts that are ascertainable only.  

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by Arvedis

[hiflier]

Then public knowledge of Sasquatch's existence should have been a reality decades ago. But that isn't the case is it. Why not? If Bigfoot was all that elusive then there would be no reports of it being seen. But there are reports. And there is trace physical evidence. There are enough facts to say they exist. The general fear of ridicule in the scientific community makes no sense.  It is simply over the top in many respects.

 

What made the nests? It must not be all that important to government? Or to science? Or to biologists? Or to zoologists? It should be VERY important. So. A new discovery of a North American primate that IMO must not really BE a new discovery then? That  outside of Bigfooters no one thinks it is important enough to pay  any attention to? It makes no sense- scientifically or other wise. Gorillas in Africa are important but a Sasquatch in our own back yard somehow isn't?  I'm not buying it. 

Edited November 24, 2018 by hiflier

[MIB]

11 hours ago, Arvedis said:

It would be really good for Bigfootery if the government meddling angle was quashed.  It's bunk.

 

Incorrect.   Nice try, but wrong. 

 

MIB

[Arvedis]

13 minutes ago, MIB said:

 

Incorrect.   Nice try, but wrong. 

 

MIB

 

So which area of the U.S. gov is watching for BF evidence to upset the applecart?  Fish and Game?  water resources?  parks and recreation who barely have enough staff to keep their parks open to the public but Paulides seems to feel should have SWAT teams at the ready to comb millions of square miles for every missing hiker, uhhh...it's not the EPA.  I'm sure I'm missing somebody.  Oh, is it some science division or would that be the secretive folks in area 51 or some comparable division that handles x-files?

[Twist]

While I don’t doubt the government knows the truth about BF, I agree with Arvedis that claiming conspiracies and such just makes the general public roll their proverbial eyes and lump us in with other topics of woo.  

 

If all the reports and trace evidence were legit then the government can’t really keep a lid on it.   Go out and prove it exists, then you force the governments hand into acknowledgement.  

[hiflier]

Something to think carefully about here: Three bear experts said they were not bear nests. The Olympic Project people, especially Derek Randles researched everything known to make a nest. Everything. The ONLY match for those kinds of nests was a Gorilla. But there are no Gorillas in the Olympic Peninsula. Put it all together and it leaves two options and two options only: Bigfoot made the nests of Humans made the nests. The only reason I can think of for Humans to make those nests- 21 one by last count- that deep in and that remote on private forest land would be for a SERE military exercise. The Olympic Project has plans to go into the next ravine and scout the next finger ridge for similar structures. There is really nothing to do but to do what a member said previous: Wait on everything regarding this subject.

 

Arvedis, with all due respect I have heard enough sarcasm from you to last a week. Mind giving it a rest?

 

1 minute ago, Twist said:

Go out and prove it exists, then you force the governments hand into acknowledgement.

 

And that is the goal is it not? "....force the governments hand into" ........PUBLIC...... "acknowledgement." There, fixed it for ya  

 

J/K.  Even these nests may not prove existence; but they also didn't happen as a freak of natural process either. Something/someone made them-on purpose. It will be extremely interesting to have an answer to that no matter who or what it turns out to be. The land owners at the very least should know, the timber cruiser should know, and the scientists and researchers should know. And then......us.

[Arvedis]

30 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Arvedis, with all due respect I have heard enough sarcasm from you to last a week. Mind giving it a rest?

 

 

And that is the goal is it not? "....force the governments hand into" ........PUBLIC...... "acknowledgement." There, fixed it for ya  

 

J/K.  Even these nests may not prove existence; but they also didn't happen as a freak of natural process either. Something/someone made them-on purpose. It will be extremely interesting to have an answer to that no matter who or what it turns out to be. The land owners at the very least should know, the timber cruiser should know, and the scientists and researchers should know. And then......us.

 

 

I know written word is hard to distinguish sarcasm and I go back and forth on here with it.  

 

I'm not being sarcastic.... the nests are interesting and it would be useful for anyone interested to see/hear the results of this eDNA study.  I'm just curious why the Olympic Project says nothing about this.  Is there a link somewhere?  Maybe they have no webmaster or whatever to update their site.  But I do not accept the reason is because of a shadowy government presence is warning them not to.  That's what I am inferring from this thread. If I am off base on that assumption, apologies.

 

Maybe they are waiting for their testing to be complete and analyzed?  That would make sense and then all of this cross talk could go away.