Poll: When Would An Announcement Of e-DNA Positive For Sasquatch Be Made?

[gigantor]

5 minutes ago, Twist said:

The BFF is soft as a tissue if that’s considered a personal attack lol.   Could be considered advice 

 

It's trolling and a personal attack. Why not stick to the subject matter?

[Twist]

12 minutes ago, gigantor said:

 

It's trolling and a personal attack. Why not stick to the subject matter?

 

Hey, your sandbox, I’m just playing in it.   We can get back to the topic now.  

[hiflier]

I do admit I have gone past the main topic and projected some reasons why I think there is a government angle. But I have tried to keep it within the context of the topic as it relates to the last question in the Poll. The question in the Poll is "When Would An Announcement Of e-DNA Positive For Sasquatch Be Made?" It is multiple choice and the last option is "Never". My take is that if the tests come back an unknown primate, or even simply unknown, then we will not get to know that and then detailed out why I thought so. It is a discussion so why not discuss the extremes as well?

 

It goes back to why we don't yet officially know if there is a creature out there that throws rocks, runs on two legs, and builds huge nests the same way that Gorillas do. The 21 nests at the site are real. What made them I the unknown at this point. IF it was a Sasquatch or a troop of Sasquatches then the implications are enormous. If it was a Sasquatch then government knows about them. If it wasn't because they don't exist and the nests were made by Humans then the government knows that, too. Especially if it was a military survival training operation. And like I said I have questions ready to go on that aspect. But I could also get myself into some real hot water by asking them.

 

And I think that either point is a valid, logical conclusion.

 

And here's the thing: I am on a Forum. The Forum has rules. I try to abide by them as does most everyone else. But I need to tell you that what I post is an extremely reserved approach even though my posts may seem over the top. If I was to pull out all of the stops on my arguments and assertions I wouldn't last a minute here. I have been fairly ambiguous and have glossed over things in a general way. In reality none of you have any idea just how deeply I have cut, and can cut, into this picture. I can guarantee you that posting my finer, more scathing, critical points, would be the end of me here in pretty short order.

Edited November 25, 2018 by hiflier

[Squatchy McSquatch]

My apologies if the Keanu Reeves pic was considered a personal attack.

 

The new forum software will not allow me to put Hiflier on ignore and I find his endless conspiracy theory mentality to be unbearable at times. This was one of those times.

 

As Gigantor stated let the admins handle it.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Squatchy McSquatch

[hiflier]

Then let me ask you a few questions Squatchy McSquatch. I doubt if you will answer much but I will ask anyway. What if the government suddenly stepped forward because they finally took responsibility for officially issuing the truth about there being no Sasquatches? Would the Bigfoot conferences disappear? Would the Bigfoot book authors and venders disappear? Would the business side of Bigfootery collapse?  Would the researchers stop going into the field? Would advertisers no longer place their adds on anything to do with Bigfoot? Would the government catch hell for not saying something sooner?

 

Have you ever thought of this side of the equation and if so what would be your take on the whole thing?

 

And for the record, I do not engage in conspiracy theories. I reason out things from what is in the public's perception of the Bigfoot subject, what is in the PGF, what is in the thousands of report databases and also the logic that has been stated by PhD's and other scientists that have looked into the subject. So a theory yes, a conspiracy theory? Sorry, my friend, that is how you view it. It is your opinion. You have a right to it. But to look at the whole picture, whether Sasquatch is real or not,  and not see something rotten in Denmark is a mistake.

Edited November 25, 2018 by hiflier

[MIB]

21 hours ago, Arvedis said:

Maybe they are waiting for their testing to be complete and analyzed?  That would make sense and then all of this cross talk could go away.

 

Not correct.    Certainly testing, etc could be going on, but that would not be the biggest picture.    Several credentialed scientists have been involved and there was discussion early on about the possibility of 2-3 papers being submitted to major journals regarding different aspects of what's been found.    SILENCE is a requirement of legitimate journals doing peer review and publication.   It is part of THEIR process.   If you don't play by their rules you don't get reviewed and you don't get published so all that is left is Ketchum's path ... create / buy a defunct journal to "review" your submission.   I don't think Disotell or Meldrum are fool enough to repeat her mistakes.

 

If you are a proponent of scientific acceptance of bigfoot, this silence is exactly what you should hope for.  

 

MIB

[hiflier]

Spot on MIB. That is the NECESSARY route for this to take. Test, get peer review of the results, and publish papers in an approved scientific journal. Then the entire media will cover any press conferences that issue the announcements. It is the proper order that will maintain credibility should the test results ever even enter the second phase: Getting accepted by the scientists would be involved in the peer review. How good a chance do you think there is for that to happen as long as in their estimation the testing is done properly?

 

Personally I think the chances would be pretty good as long as the results DIDN'T say "Unknown Primate"  

Edited November 25, 2018 by hiflier

[ShadowBorn]

45 minutes ago, hiflier said:

What if the government suddenly stepped forward because they finally took responsibility for officially issuing the truth about there being no Sasquatches? Would the Bigfoot conferences disappear? Would the Bigfoot book authors and venders disappear? Would the business side of Bigfootery collapse?  Would the researchers stop going into the field? Would advertisers no longer place their adds on anything to do with Bigfoot? Would the government catch hell for not saying something sooner?

In my opinion nothing is going to stop Hiflier . Researchers will keep researching and sightings will keep happening. This is how it will be and the Gov. will have no say so on what they say. Since no one will be willing to accept their results. At some point in time a body will show up on a slab and they will have to accept what is out there.  If this does go right then the DNR will do the right thing and write the permits so that the proper scientist can investigate. There are already laws in place for just this type of find so when a new species is found. Endangered species act. If they have found some thing then there should be proof as far as paper work.  This is what people should be looking for under the FOIA. See what permits have been pulled out in that specific area. Fact finding before speculating so that we can get to the truth. Again just my opinion.

[MIB]

30 minutes ago, hiflier said:

How good a chance do you think there is for that to happen as long as in their estimation the testing is done properly?

 

I think peer review silences a lot of critics within the scientific establishment because it is precisely THEIR process.   They understand what goes into it, what is required, etc.   It has no bearing on the views of the general public because they don't understand the requirements nor what meeting those requirements means.

 

30 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Personally I think the chances would be pretty good as long as the results DIDN'T say "Unknown Primate"  

 

I think that is exactly what it's going to say .. maybe hedged a bit differently, but it's going to amount to a statement to the effect that they have peer reviewed evidence for the existence of an unknown primate.   (Unless they've gone farther and are able to say what it is, how closely it relates to us, etc.)    I think when that happens, academic resistance ends and funding for research via academic channels begins.

 

Not knowing, since I'm not an insider, but my guess would be that one paper will discuss the DNA and will come from Disotell.   I think there could be another which discusses the nests, structures, construction methods, and such .. probably via an anthropologist or primate biologist though I'm not sure who it would be .. I guess it could be a general wildlife biologist qualified to state they are not from any known NA animal.   I'm not exactly sure where Meldrum comes into the picture other than name recognition to draw attention.    His specialty is feet and locomotion.

 

MIB

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by MIB

[hiflier]

Two pretty positive posts as far as the topic goes. Thanks guys. And his thread benefits from assessments like those. ShadowBorn, people may not believe a statement from the government that Sasquatch does not exist but even if the public accepted the statement it still wouldn't address what made the nests. And yes, MIB, I can certainly see two papers at least regarding this investigation. As you say, one on the e-DNA data results and one on the biological/zoological aspects of the nest building and maybe the builders depending on the e-DNA results.

 

But if it is determined that there is no evidence for a novel primate sequence then it would come down to the word of the br=ear experts because no doubt there is a strong possibility that bear DNA will be found. But if the bear experts are absolutely positive that the nests were not made by bears then the only choice left is Human. Which will present a different set of questions as in which Humans- hunters, or military- with hunters being the easiest to deal with.

Edited November 25, 2018 by hiflier

[MIB]

^^^^ Yes.  

 

My personal "however", which only counts for me, is this: I've heard from some number of people who have been to the site, seen video of the site, seen video of the approach to the site.    It would be very reasonable to deliberately exclude human hunters.   You simply cannot move through that brush without noise that would scare game.    It would be most effectively hunted from above via tree stands.   An experienced hunter would not make nests and leave a bunch of human scent around if you were hunting there from a tree stand.   From what I'm told, somewhat backed up by what I could see in video / images, it's not precisely a military layout either.   It looks to me like a pecking-order layout oriented to salmon in the stream, the most probably food source.    I don't know about this one specifically but most spawning areas are closed to fishing during spawning and spawning fish are not that desirable a food source for humans: I think it points "elsewhere" ... everything, taken on the whole, points towards bigfoot.  

 

That's just MY assessment, though.  

[hiflier]

An interesting evaluation and assessment there. The folks involved have done everything to eliminate other possible known candidates and known nest builders. It still oddly enough comes down to the nests being nearly identical to what Gorillas in Africa build.

 

Ok then, going on the assumption that Sasquatch exists (I kind have to say it that way?) would the structuring of the nests be indicative of something more ape? One could easily think so from just looking at the style of construction. And also because the nests are technically NOT woven. There have been reports Sasquatch weaving mats (Ostman) but if that is true then these nests are showing something more primitive. Humans really do not make such elaborate structures if elaborate is the right word. And even if they did it would be rare indeed or even unthinkable to have 2 in the same general area? Or even as reported which is that the nets are in groups of 3-5.

 

I hope people can understand why I have been in such deep thought over this discovery. And it is all being carefully documented- as it should be- right from the beginning. I wonder what the DNR people have been thinking since they saw them. I don't think they HAD to go out there but something seems to have been compelling enough for them to go? Maybe it was the photos and videos that you yourself saw? Or as a request from a credible land owner? I would buy the book on this in a heartbeat as I am sure there will be one. 

[MIB]

17 hours ago, hiflier said:

would the structuring of the nests be indicative of something more ape?

 

No, not necessarily.   

 

17 hours ago, hiflier said:

One could easily think so from just looking at the style of construction. And also because the nests are technically NOT woven.

 

Superficially, perhaps, but I think .. reflecting more deliberately .. that we'd have to consider why humans "weave" and whether sasquatch shares that need.   It comes down to biological need.    Are they warm enough and dry enough without it?   Bergmann's rule, covered with hair, etc.   Just because WE might benefit from the additional warmth, wind resistance, etc from weaving does not mean they have the same need.

 

Essentially we have an algebra problem of one equation and two unknowns ... not uniquely solvable, at least for now.    

 

My view: we need to be cautious about jumping to premature conclusions.  I observe that people, having invested ego in a conclusion, have trouble backing away even when new data pretty clearly shows that they were wrong.   I prefer to avoid that trap.

 

If I had to guess, though ... we're looking at something that, because of better biological adaptation, lives in a more ape-like rather than stone age human-like, way, though it may match us for strategic thinking when such is required.    The black and white / only this or only that thinking is befuddled when encountering something that is not merely ape but not fully human (considering both biology and genetics, and if you wish, tool use).   They truly represent a shade of gray we struggle to get our heads around. 

 

MIB

 

[hiflier]

4 hours ago, MIB said:

Essentially we have an algebra problem of one equation and two unknowns ... not uniquely solvable, at least for now.

 

Good way to put it. And I CAN be wrong in my assessments but we are kind of in the dark still. I do think though that if the creature does exist there is no way a government wouldn't know. If a person skips paying $500 in taxes the result will be that the governments tax people will go after them. Think what a government might do to protect $1,000,000,000,000 (trillion) in revenue. What would such a government do to not have that flow of money halted? Or even a portion of it? I think that there are people in the government that would want to do the right thing. I just don't know who they are. I also think that this whole thing with the nests is being carefully watched. Depending on the outcome of the test results there may be a few scientists that have been waiting for such a thing. Scientists who have an interest and have wanted an opportunity in which they might be able to eventually do the investigations they have been wanting to do. A novel primate result could have the potential of making the stigma disappear over night.

[wiiawiwb]

For conspiracy believers, maybe there could a silent, wealthy donor who wishes the matter stays below radar quietly makes an offer to buy the results with a non-disclosure covenant.  Paying off silence is nearly as old as the oldest profession.