How Far Up The Ladder Does Knowledge Of Sasquatch Go?

[Twist]

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

 

I agree, and again posit that the very reason that they don't give a whit about basic human rights is why they would continue to turn a blind eye towards a rare hominid.

 

In fact, that is the very reason why all governments are doing so.

 

 

 

I'm pretty confident that they are. They don't appear to be any of the previously known hominids with the possible exception of gigantopithicus, of which we only have a couple mandibles and some teeth to compare to.

 

 

 

Obviously, if they exist, they've been around longer than any and all governments throughout human history. More importantly, modern science has only been around for a century and a half, especially primatology. The lowland gorilla, despite legends for quite literally thousands of years, was only "discovered" in the early 1850's, and the mountain gorilla wasn't discovered until 1912. 

 

 

 

What about them? There are reports of Soviet troops killing them.

 

 

 

No. Conspiracy requires cooperative effort. I'm saying that all government, at least up to this point, is better off with sasquatches remaining unknown and in the forest where they belong. More, if government ever changes its mind, they'll produce a sasquatch faster than you can say lickity-split, and God help the sasquatches, because like the rest of us, they'll then need His help.

 

So BF is not a new species, and current or past versions of Russia or China have very little regard for humanity, to me this means that industry or having to protect them in any way is out as far as a reason to not expose them.  Unlike our government they are not going to create piles upon piles of work to recognize and protect.   I’d say this favors them not knowing about them but of course that’s just my American view on two countries I believe would gladly expose BF if there was something to be gained monetarily from them, ie zoo’s or tourism etc.  

[RedHawk454]

38 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

A recent discovery just published about the human land bridge Bering Sea crossing has just complicated your question.      The scientific dogma assumed that humans crossed that land bridge during the last ice age.    But a recent study of the area showed that the bridge was not suitable for human habitation until about 12500 years ago when it finally cleared of enough ice to traverse the area.    The problem with that is that humans had been in the Americas at least since  14,000 years ago and much evidence exists that they were in South America much before that.      They had to made the migration before the Bering land would allow it.    The only way that could have happened is using boats to move along the edge of the polar ice shield.     Well similarly that would require the same migration by BF to not be possible.    Especially by a giant ape from warm climated Asia.    We have no indication BF ever built or used boats.   They just do not seem to be capable of such complicated construction.    They have ancestors someplace who died and left bones and fossils.    That means that they arrived later than humans to North America to hit the 12,500 year window or they got here some other way.  

 

We have many reports of BF activity concurrent with UFO sightings.   Even reports of them being beamed down from a hovering UFO to the surface.   All of that hard to believe but it certainly fits my ET theory.    Could they be from some planet with a dying red sun?  Does that explain their ability to see in dim lighting?   Sent here to primitive earth to survive as a species?    After all humans and governments are happy to ignore UFO's.    Why not a ET ape man?  Is that why they have such a strong human avoidance protocol?   

 

Is my theory likely?   No.  Most likely BF is from here and somehow missing in the fossil record.    Is my theory possible?   Yes.   Should some government admit UFOs exist,  then my theory should be examined along with what is the real story of human origin.   

 

From what Ive read, although the Bering bridge was pretty desolate and cold, humans did manage to survive the long travel

 

The Sasquatch eyes are much bigger and go back deeper into the skull.  From what ive read.  Most animals can see much better than humans at night too

 

what about the human language though? from Athabaskan to navajo?

 

 

 

What is interesting is that most of the human experience is unknown and unrecorded.  Written language at the most goes back maybe 8000 years ago.  How humans spread across the globe gets pretty murky.

[Catmandoo]

45 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said:

How humans spread across the globe gets pretty murky.

 

Boats. For North and South Americas, the 'kelp highway' had food every day. Faster progress than land travel going either north or south. Don't forget the "Kuroshio" or a.k.a. "Black Current" that brings us floating debris from the Orient to the west coast. Contemporary debris from the Fukushima  tsunami disaster, derelict vessels, trash can reach the west coast in a relatively short time depending on sail area. Historically,  derelict vessels from China and Japan ( build type of the 'Junk' ) have drifted across the Pacific and landed on the west coast of North and South America. In the case of derelict vessels, the European way was to 'go to the long boats' and abandon ship.  Oriental style was to stay with the vessel and await their fates.

 

Regarding the ice that blocked north--south travel in the interior, I believe there is a current species that went over the barrier long before humans: raven.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Catmandoo
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[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

........that’s just my American view on two countries I believe would gladly expose BF if there was something to be gained monetarily from them, ie zoo’s or tourism etc.  

 

Again, this is a vastly different world than that of, for example, 1856 when the gorilla was "discovered" (and, coincidentally, when Charkes Darwin started publishing books which scientifically began changing men into monkeys). 

 

Today we live in a world that is warming, and it's all the fault of western societies, primarily American. The rich guys. The solution?: Tax them punitively for using fuels, and give the money to poorer countries.

 

I suggest that in such a world, a tropical nation like, for example, Cuba, might very well love to prove that a relic human species lives among those nasty Americans (or Canadians, or Russians, or Chinese) who stole the land from the poor beasts, and who must give it back.

[Huntster]

29 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

Boats........

 

Yup. Paddling across the Bering Strait now is pretty easy, all things considered. The Inuit have been doing it forever. Ir island hop through the Aleutians to the Kuriles. And really, in winter, all you have to do is go out on the pack ice, build your ice shelter, and ride the ice (if you can kill and eat seals and bears). The currants will take you all around the Arctic.

 

Indigenous peoples and animals don't need a land bridge. That's for pointy headed fart smellers to make themselves famous.

[Catmandoo]

 

^^^^^ An Alaskan comes through................Map looks contemporary. Skin boats still work well today, better than aluminum skiffs.

However, when the Bering Strait did not exist, the sea level was much lower then due to the crust flexing from the weight of the ice sheet. In Alaska, the Mesa site is interesting. Located north of the Brooks Mountains and has not been glaciated in more than 2 million years.  In Russia, El'gygutgyn Lake has never been glaciated. It freezes over.  It has been cored and dated. Those people love mud, ash, pollen, beetle parts, etc. I think points were found close to the lake. There have been glacier free areas above the arctic circle. Cold as hell but travel was possible east---west.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Catmandoo
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[MIB]

3 hours ago, RedHawk454 said:

From what Ive read, although the Bering bridge was pretty desolate and cold, humans did manage to survive the long travel

 

I think that view is being challenged ... very recent developments make that look less likely.     Stay tuned for updates .. pro and con .. of course. 

 

MIB

[hiflier]

The topic is drifting a bit (pun intended  ) but it is interesting stuff.

 

I think the whole idea of specifically the U.S. government/Park Service being aware of a bipedal hominid other than Human might be unsettling for some folks. People mention 411's, LEO's, forestry personnel filling out 'unofficial' documents, unknown databases and past restrictions on conducting expeditions, although I think the restrictions were/are mainly about people making a profit conducting Sasquatch expeditions on public lands?

 

It just came to mind to look at the question of Sasquatch knowledge from another perspective. Who thinks that the U.S. government/Park Service knows NOTHING about such a creature as a Sasquatch? If someone does think that, but is a knower, then why would you think officials don't know about the creature?

 

Let's say that 15 years ago government didn't know a darned thing about Bigfoot. Would "Finding Bigfoot" or any of the other programs/documentaries in the last 15 years have the possibility of influencing even one person in an official capacity to be interested enough to look into things? Government doesn't pay attention to their own Rangers? Or the reports from LEO's? What about timber cruisers in general? They are usually the first ones to go into an area that hasn't been touched for decades. If the general policy among even timber cruisers is to remain silent then why did the one that informed Cliff Barackman speak up? Was it only because of the long friendship he and Barackman had?

[RedHawk454]

The problem with finding Bigfoot and killing Bigfoot is that those shows are way more about the personalities within the group than actual Bigfoot.

 

 

its trash.  

 

I watched Todd standings Bigfoot documentary on Netflix a year ago.  I forgot what it’s called.  All those Bigfoot photos he had are fake.  At the end he had that black skin looking Sasquatch and you could see the pink skin within the ears.

 

Its a guy..  the eyes gave it away

 

it was entertaining

 

but

 

its all fake.  All of it.

 

profit agents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by RedHawk454

[jsydor]

Great thread. Entertaining and informative. 

 

8 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

I had a Top Secret SIOP ESI clearance and do not go around blabbing what I know.     30 years at Ft Lebanworth doing hard time is a good reason not to divulge secrets so scratch the military from your list.     The Smithsonian is right in the middle of any cover up.     We have numerous newspaper accounts in the 1800s of Smithsonian scientists crating up large skeletons and shipping them off for study.    Now they deny doing it or having what was sent there.    

 

As a TS clearance holder also, agree with this statement, minus the Smithsonian part. If .gov and .mil (not always friendly) have the ability to track a human in say Tora Bora then they have the ability to track a biped on the Olympic Peninsula. Thus, they also have the tech to collect and document the data. The question then becomes what is the motivation for .gov or .mil? Is it control?  Could it be "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past?” Or is it more like “Great is truth, but still greater, from a practical point of view, is silence about truth.”  In any case "A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” Sorry to make a quick turn here but I am not clear how silence on this topic is a benefit to anyone other than .mil. And is there any higher rung on the ladder in this, or really any country today?

[hiflier]

38 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said:

The problem with finding Bigfoot and killing Bigfoot is that those shows are way more about the personalities within the group than actual Bigfoot.

 

 

its trash.

 Yes indeed RedHawk454 but the question was really about "Finding Bigfoot"s presence in the public arena and knowing that even people in official capacities at whatever level are people too and ONE of the tens of thousands of government employees/Park Service personnel might have been interested eough to look deeper into the subject? A lot of Sasquatch folks were exposed to the subject at a very young age way before the TV shows came along. Who knows, maybe some of them went into the forestry service BECAUSE of their interest in the subject. There's a guy very close to the top of the ranks that has a personal encounter so one could surmise that there are insiders who are in the know. And even if that wasn't the case, I find it nearly impossible to think that in 50-60 years at the national level in the U.S. Department of Agriculture no one is aware of the creature.

 

Is awareness greater on the lower rungs of the ladder at say, Ranger Headquarters in the Six Rivers National Forest, but no one above that rank has any knowledge? Has anyone in any official capacity around Mount Saint Helens never heard or read the story about Fred Beck in Ape Canyon? I mean we have known about this stuff forever it seems and I for one am no one special. John Green's database has been on the web for almost 20 years and no one can tell me that government doesn't keep an eye on the web.

 

Imagine a conversation like this going on in the official halls somewhere:

 

"Hey you know? I ran across this database with a bunch of Bigfoot reports today. There could be something to this stuff. Maybe we should look into it."

"No, we don't look into it. Got that?" 

 

Probably wouldn't happen like that but you get the idea. So a few people might know but most are told that it's just hands off. If people follow orders, which they more than likely do, then the subject will be hands off. Period.

[hiflier]

So. Who is going to be the lucky person to shoot off an email to the Washington State Department of Natural Resources to see what they really thought of the Olympic Project's nesting site? Maybe they have a good idea about "what" made them? Especially since the bear experts said it wasn't bears. Would the 'bear experts' BE the same two people from the WADNR that went there? Isn't anyone curious about this? Where the heck is all the follow up? Or will the whole thing just die like everything else. Somehow I don't think that should be allowed to happen in this case.

[MIB]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

It just came to mind to look at the question of Sasquatch knowledge from another perspective. Who thinks that the U.S. government/Park Service knows NOTHING about such a creature as a Sasquatch? If someone does think that, but is a knower, then why would you think officials don't know about the creature?

 

Semantics.   What does, for instance, "US Forest Service knows NOTHING" mean?   

 

It seems .. I could be wrong here .. but it seems like you're thinking about them as the Borg, that whatever any one person in any agency knows, the whole agency knows instantly, that there's no natural compartmentalization.    That's what I've tried to say here and in other threads and you seem unwilling to consider it.    That fact is if you study organizations, information flows up and down but at each step there's a filtering process.   What info is worth my boss's time to share with him?   And what info is worth my time to share with my subordinates?   It's very seldom about hiding, it's only about not wasting time exchanging information that is not valuable to part of the audience.   

 

What does that all mean?   It means that I'm pretty confident at least some people in some ranger districts within the USFS know about bigfoot.   That does not mean every employee within that ranger district does.   It doesn't mean the knowledge is shared upward to the forest supervisor's office nor if it is, that it is shared back downwards into the other ranger districts within the forest.   Likewise, if the info does get to the forest supervisor's attention, it does not mean it gets to the regional supervisor nor if it does, whether the regional supervisor shares it down into other forests in the region.  

 

Are you getting this?

 

So, so far as how to answer your question ... I'm pretty certain some people within the US Gov't know about bigfoot but I do not think the US Gov't as a whole shares in that knowledge.   They're not the Borg, not a hive mind, and not all parts are exactly identical.

 

I hope you are not dead set on a binary answer.   Both binary options, yes and no, taken in absolute, are wrong in this case.

 

MIB

 

PS: coming back to add ... looks like you addressed all my points while I was typing them up.   Convergence.   Yes.   Granularity of answer.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by MIB

[RedHawk454]

The biggest government agency outside of the military is the USDA if I recall.  And the USDA oversees the forest service.  As far as what agency knows what and how high it trickles up I’ll say there’s prolly a lot of lateral and diagonal communication between personnel and a lot of diagonal and lateral communication between the agencies.  But what goes on behind the closed doors of the DoD and such is anyone’s guess.  And it’s all probably on a need to know basis.  

 

Then there’s the State level.  There’s prolly a lot of top-down communication between the feds and the state of California on the issue.  Especially with missing 411 cases.  

 

 

 

 

And Russia has eleven time zones due to its immense size.  I doubt their government rly knows what’s going on in the Russian Far East.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by RedHawk454

[hiflier]

34 minutes ago, MIB said:

PS: coming back to add ... looks like you addressed all my points while I was typing them up.   Convergence.   Yes.   Granularity of answer.  

 

Indeed, MIB, I never thought any knowledge was GENERALLY known. Even way back I had always said SOMEONE knows so who is that person.

 

37 minutes ago, MIB said:

What does that all mean?   It means that I'm pretty confident at least some people in some ranger districts within the USFS know about bigfoot.   That does not mean every employee within that ranger district does.

 

QFT

 

38 minutes ago, MIB said:

Are you getting this?

 

So, so far as how to answer your question ... I'm pretty certain some people within the US Gov't know about bigfoot but I do not think the US Gov't as a whole shares in that knowledge.

 

Yes, I certainly am and appreciate your sticking to the point.