Guest shelley7950 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 When I first started reading this forum, about a year ago, I was a highly hopeful "semi-believer"....I thought that of all the cryptids, BF was the most likely to be a real animal, and I found the Patterson film very compelling...I was eager to see more evidence and learn more about the state of current research.... Now, many months later, I find that I am almost 100% skeptic...and what caused this change in thinking was NOT the skeptics on the board, but the hard-core believers...while I might be able to entertain the idea of a small population of ape-like animals living in the deep forests of the PNW, I cannot bring myself to believe that there is a huge population in virtually every State of the Union, peeking in windows, strolling through people's back yards, or having a cigarette behind the garage...And it seems to be the "hard cores" that bring the bulk of the "evidence'..in fact,there doesn't seem to be ANY hard scientific evidence for the existence of a relict population of great apes in North America, just the anecdotal evidence of the more fanatic believers, who see BF EVERYWHERE....and therefore relegate it to "nowhere" in my book... So what about others on the forum? Has being a member changed your opinions on BF, and if so, in what direction? Are you a firmer believer, or a more hardened skeptic, since participating? Thanks... 1
dopelyrics Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 That's a great question, Shelley 7950. Like you, I found this forum a year ago or so, and I was on the fence as to the existence of Bigfoot. The PGF brought me here. It remains a fascinating film for me, but I am still not sure what I am looking at. Unfortunately, I still have not made my mind up one way or the other about the existence of Bigfoot. Some of the recent revelations in the other threads regarding the Erickson project, the DNA etc' etc' are making me lean towards the side of "Believer". One thing I do know with absolute certainty is that there are a lot of strong characters and politics in the subject, a lot of flim flam, a lot of he siad/she said, and a difficulty in getting facts. I am not having a go at anyone, I just did not realise that it brought out some realy strong feelings from skeptics and believers alike. But I love the subject and I especially love this forum. Best, Lee 1
Guest Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) It has not affected my belief in bigfoot, or that something similar, is in my area. I am much more jaded about those that claim they have proof or that the animal is paranormal to a certain degree. However, having had some pretty odd experiences myself in the last two years, I don't totally discount the paranormal aspect. I just think it's highly unlikely, that there is some mechanism to explain what is happening to those that make the claims. If you asked me about that two years ago, I would have said "absolutely, no way". I guess I went in the opposite direction than you did. I have been put off and disappointed by the hoaxers, or those that are attention seekers in this field. I think I had expected a lot less of a lunatic fringe that are attracted to this topic. I had a few bad experiences on another forum before joining here and almost just let the whole thing go. I can certainly say I'm less naive and accepting than I was two years ago. I've become much more skeptical of bigfoot witnesses than I am of bigfoot. Edited July 1, 2011 by Jodie
Guest shelley7950 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I agree with both of you---I'm so glad this forum exists and is so open and accepting of all points of view---it gives a fabulous broad spectrum view of all the beliefs and attitudes out there, so even if I read the occasional post that makes my head explode, it's still interesting...one thing this forum never is, is boring Shelley
Guest Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Shelly, excellent explanation, if it helps, not all of us out there believe EVERYTHING is a Bigfoot. In fact many in the community that are believers believe nothing is a Bigfoot too. That being said though, you cannot discount thousands of sightings in the last 200 years, at least in the United States. People are seeing something, and I find it incredulous that 100% of them have been misidentified animals or hoaxes, although a vast majority of them could be. Footprints are hard scientific evidence, well they are in a court of law, and in the case of the Billie Ape before it was proven to exist, but science can be discriminatory at times. There is dermal ridge evidence, but that is overlooked. According to Dr. W. Henner Fahrenbach, hairs that defy classification, of primate origin, that have been found in the United States, but that is overlooked. Audio recordings that experts cannot classify, again overlooked. Some scientists scoff at the potential for the existence of such a creature, yet from what I understand, that is the "in" thing to do. Now that more scientists are becoming involved, it is slowly becoming more accepted to at least explore the possibilities. It seems much of the mainstream media has picked up the mantle of poking fun at the phenomena, yet they quickly report other phenomena, such as UFO's normally with a straight face and more acceptance. Because of social norms, and past histories, real evidence is overlooked, because it is not the popular thing to do, or we are conditioned by media, be it by books, readings, television, pundits, to believe real evidence is not. How many times have people been killed in disasters because they ignore the warnings of scientists, engineers or people "in the know." The eruption of Krakatoa comes to mind. Columbus, Galileo and Copernicus all took harassment because there ideas were so against what people we taught, or what science had to say. Remember science has been wrong more than right over mankind's history. You must remember the Gigantopithicus Blacki existed millions of years ago, which science accepts, yet all we have in the fossil record are some teeth and a mandible. It tooks centuries to find that and it was done much by accident in 1934. If that accident hadn't happened the discovery wouldn't have been for 60 years later when the mandible was found in China. And are they not still finding extinct species on the planet due to a newly discovered fossil? Are there not new mammals, insects and birds discovered on this planet each year? The absence of evidence does not disprove the existence of something. For example in a crime where there is no evidence of whom committed the crime, SOMEONE still did the crime. Cynicism is a horrible thing sometimes, if this is the case, I've been there myself, doubting everything I have experienced or seen in my years of doing this. I feel some people attribute some supernatural powers to the creatures to explain this, and that's okay. Some people become 100% skeptics as well. But the bottom line is, common sense tells me something is going on here. What it is, I hope to see in my lifetime. I hope that causes you to reflect a little bit, I understand your concerns, but these reports from ALL states have come in since the existence of people on this continent.
Guest squatchrider Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) When I first started reading this forum, about a year ago, I was a highly hopeful "semi-believer"....I thought that of all the cryptids, BF was the most likely to be a real animal, and I found the Patterson film very compelling...I was eager to see more evidence and learn more about the state of current research.... Now, many months later, I find that I am almost 100% skeptic...and what caused this change in thinking was NOT the skeptics on the board, but the hard-core believers...while I might be able to entertain the idea of a small population of ape-like animals living in the deep forests of the PNW, I cannot bring myself to believe that there is a huge population in virtually every State of the Union, peeking in windows, strolling through people's back yards, or having a cigarette behind the garage...And it seems to be the "hard cores" that bring the bulk of the "evidence'..in fact,there doesn't seem to be ANY hard scientific evidence for the existence of a relict population of great apes in North America, just the anecdotal evidence of the more fanatic believers, who see BF EVERYWHERE....and therefore relegate it to "nowhere" in my book... So what about others on the forum? Has being a member changed your opinions on BF, and if so, in what direction? Are you a firmer believer, or a more hardened skeptic, since participating? Thanks... I have sort of traveled the same path as you since joining this forum 6 months ago. I still think that there is something out there however the more I interact with this forum and listen to podcasts of other "bigfoot researchers" the more I become a very skeptical believer. I too find it hard to believe that a creature, as large as the Bigfoot is reported to be, could be around every corner in the woods if we just learn to listen and observe. Not every broken tree branch, depression in the ground, odd sound in the night in the woods is a Bigfoot. Unidentified hair does not equal Bigfoot every time. I honestly think that the speculation and theories, in many cases, have gone off on totally unsubstanciated tangents. Edited July 1, 2011 by squatchrider
Guest Roberty-Bob Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I was on the old forum for many years, and I have to say it turned me from a somewhat believer into a skeptic. Before I joined up there, I hadn't really read any compelling skeptical answers to a lot of what I thought was pretty darned good evidence. Then I saw that so-called dermal ridges could be casting artifacts, the Skookum cast was more than likely an elk lay, and there were several reasonable sounding skeptics (like Saskeptic) that could rationally and calmly refute a lot of what I thought I knew. The last straw for me was the Michigan Recording project (I think that's what it was called) debacle, plus a cliquish nature seemed to evolve turned me off big time. I popped back in to the "new" forum here not too long ago to read what was being said about a local video that got some attention and decided I could add some info to the thread. So far I haven't seen anything new that has changed my stance, but I think the forum's better than it was when I left. I would dearly love to see the big guy to be proven a real, honest-to-gosh primate. I just don't think it's going to happen. At any rate I love the "myth" that is bigfoot, and the PGF still gives me a chill any time I see it.
Guest flskunk Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I am new to the forum, and don't think any thing I've read so far is going to stop me from believing that a great ape or some thing ape like is alive and well in the PNW. But I have to be honest, I will be very upset if the DNA samples Dr. K has been working on does not pan out.
Incorrigible1 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 You must remember the Gigantopithicus Blacki existed millions of years ago, which science accepts, yet all we have in the fossil record are some teeth and a mandible. It tooks centuries to find that and it was done much by accident in 1934. If that accident hadn't happened the discovery wouldn't have been for 60 years later when the mandible was found in China. Don't mean to threadjack, but Gigantopithecus only went extinct relative recently. 250,000 years ago or perhaps as recently as only 100,000 years ago. Otherwise, a stellar posting, Squatchdetective. The forum has expanded much of my interest in the subject, but I am continually amazed at the "facts" posted about the creature's supposed habits and characteristics. Still, I very much enjoy the BFF!
Guest Lesmore Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 How Has This Forum Affected Your Belief In Bf? A lot of the stuff I've read here has caused me to shake my wooly head in wonderment. The fantasy that some indulge in , is incredible and largely unsubstantiated, IMHO. But on the other hand....and there is always ...another hand...some of the stuff I read has been very credible. Thoughtful, logical....based on actual knowledge, not just engaged in bouts of make believe. These views and comments are actually credible and give me some thought about the possible existence of BF. I wish we could cut down on the fantasy stuff that goes on here. All it does besides giving one a chuckle, is further undermine what little credibility the BF issue has among the greater chunk of population.
Guest bsruther Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 I'm a non-believer and I'd have to say I believe even less since I've joined the forum. The fantasy Bigfoot crowd is a huge negative for me. The "everything is Bigfoot" crowd doesn't help matters either. I guess the only things that keep me hanging on to their possibility, are the handfull of credible people that have been in this game for many, many years and a few believable reports. I just don't see how someone could follow a subject like this for so long without something actually being out there. A failure of Ketchum's DNA study would probably be the last straw for me. I'm not holding out any hope for what Erickson has. Whether I end up believing or not, the subject of Bigfoot is fun and I hope it never goes away. The wife and I have a blast, sitting out on the patio, drinking beer and talking about Bigfoot. Sometimes serious talk, but mostly amusement. One thing that she'd really like to know is, if BF is proven to exist, will she be able to put a feeder up to attract Bigfoots and will they sell Bigfoot feed at Tractor Supply? She has lots of questions about BF, but this is the only one I can think of, since it was from last night. She sometimes scolds the Bigfoots, when we are riding through the woods on the golf cart too.
Guest shelley7950 Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Thanks squatchdetective for the well thought out reply....obviously there is a tiny part of me (that refuses to die) that thinks "well....maybe"....otherwise I would have left the forum long ago and moved on to raising orchids or collecting stamps Lesmore--as far as the "fantasy" element---sometimes it makes me squirm, but it's an honest representation of how some people believe, and as such should be recorded...as I said before, one of the things I like about this forum is that it accepts everyone's viewpoint without (much) prejudice and as such is a pretty interesting document on the range of thoughts and beliefs about BF... As far as the sheer number of BF reports---I recently watched a television program about BF that noted that before the Patterson film, reports of BF were rare and pretty much restricted to the PNW...AFTER the film was released, suddenly EVERYONE was seeing BF everywhere, in every state across the country...so yes, I think we can be somewhat skeptical of post-Patty sightings in, say, Lincoln Nebraska or Branson Mississippi...and no, the producers didn't cite any study or evidence for these findings...so I suppose that's open to questioning too...
Guest Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 Frequenting this forum hasn't affected my belief in bigfoot in the slightest. It has shaken my belief in my fellow man though..........just sayin'.
WV FOOTER Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 This forum hasn't affected my belief in Bigfoot, mainly because I know a witness who has seen a big male, so I know Bigfoot is real and out there. What puzzles me is why people spend time on something they have no belief in. To each their own. Bigfoot is real believe it.
Guest TooRisky Posted July 1, 2011 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Frequenting this forum hasnigfoot in the slightest. It has shaken my belief in my fellow man though..........just sayin'. Ditto and I am concerned with the path into the crypto/mystic side of things... And away from the common sense main stream thinking... Has it affected my belief, not in the least, but it has made me wonder about some people... Just sayin' Edited July 1, 2011 by TooRisky
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