Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said: I grew up a half mile from the Platte river, God's gift to the westward pioneers. A more natural travel path I couldn't imagine......... But it was also full of hostile Pawnee, Lakota, Omaha, and Arapaho, not to mention a serious lack of convenience stores to replenish basic supplies. And life is even less forgiving above 40,000'.............not to mention 230K miles away (our own moon). Mars? In 2003, it was at its closest to Earth for the past 60,000 years..........a mere 35 million miles away. Think about that for a while. First, 60K years ago, Neanderthals were running around the glaciers that covered the northern hemisphere. Secondly, timed right, the journey would take a full year at best, and that would only be possible every few years. Otherwise, it's a greater guarantee of a death sentence. Sorry, but as a guy who spent a lifetime in a military/engineering environment, and who worked with guys who wore t-shirts that said, "Why Yes, As a Matter of Fact, I'm a Rocket Scientist", I'm pretty sure that space travel and colonization is science fiction. Militarized space? You bet. We're already there. Space mining? I doubt it........at least for a century or two, but maybe. Colonies of well-to-do-aristocrats toasting NASA with Space Champagne or huddled masses of illegal Honduran immigrants seeking good farmland? Please............ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted April 12, 2019 Admin Share Posted April 12, 2019 31 minutes ago, Huntster said: But it was also full of hostile Pawnee, Lakota, Omaha, and Arapaho, not to mention a serious lack of convenience stores to replenish basic supplies. And life is even less forgiving above 40,000'.............not to mention 230K miles away (our own moon). Mars? In 2003, it was at its closest to Earth for the past 60,000 years..........a mere 35 million miles away. Think about that for a while. First, 60K years ago, Neanderthals were running around the glaciers that covered the northern hemisphere. Secondly, timed right, the journey would take a full year at best, and that would only be possible every few years. Otherwise, it's a greater guarantee of a death sentence. Sorry, but as a guy who spent a lifetime in a military/engineering environment, and who worked with guys who wore t-shirts that said, "Why Yes, As a Matter of Fact, I'm a Rocket Scientist", I'm pretty sure that space travel and colonization is science fiction. Militarized space? You bet. We're already there. Space mining? I doubt it........at least for a century or two, but maybe. Colonies of well-to-do-aristocrats toasting NASA with Space Champagne or huddled masses of illegal Honduran immigrants seeking good farmland? Please............ We are already landing payloads on Mars. As far as physics is concerned? A 200 lbs robot is no different than a 200 lbs human. I don’t think that’s the challenge. As far as sustaining a colony of humans on Mars? There will be disasters and death. Absolutely. But at 5 billion strong. Mankind is gonna take a crack at it. And it won’t be 200 years away. Maybe 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, norseman said: We are already landing payloads on Mars......... As we well should. Before the Chinese or Russians get there, we need to be established. .........As far as physics is concerned? A 200 lbs robot is no different than a 200 lbs human......... A 200 lb robot beats a 200 lb human hands down. We're already supplanting our air force with drones, and that's here at home. We don't need to send gangs of people to Mars to feed at incredible costs. Drones and robots are perfect. .........As far as sustaining a colony of humans on Mars? There will be disasters and death. Absolutely. But at 5 billion strong. Mankind is gonna take a crack at it. And it won’t be 200 years away. Maybe 20. Militarily? You bet, and good on 'em. Huddled masses? The fine china crowd? No way, no how............maybe ever, but certainly not for a long, long time..........unless my penal colony suggestion takes root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Space colonization is a mere handful of generations away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) ,Four generations is a century. We'll be lucky (or blessed by God) if we don't nuke the planet and require space colonizatiin in a century, and if we do, you can bet the huddled masses won't be the colonists, and you can bet the fine china crowd won't be all that comfortable on a lifeless rock with ambient temperatures measured in the hundreds of degrees below zero. Edited April 12, 2019 by Huntster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Huntster said: ,Four generations is a century. We'll be lucky (or blessed by God) if we don't nuke the planet and require space colonizatiin in a century, and if we do, you can bet the huddled masses won't be the colonists, and you can bet the fine china crowd won't be all that comfortable on a lifeless rock with ambient temperatures measured in the hundreds of degrees below zero. In other words, the Heinlein quote, above, is prescient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted April 12, 2019 Admin Share Posted April 12, 2019 For the record.... I would be a raving lunatic in two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Incorrigible1 said: In other words, the Heinlein quote, above, is prescient. Maybe, but I doubt it, and it certainly won't be a brave new world for any but a few adventurers or refugees, and it will be a damned cold and bleak existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted April 12, 2019 Admin Share Posted April 12, 2019 I'm optimistic, five years ago, the feat below was considered sci-fi... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, norseman said: For the record.... I would be a raving lunatic in two weeks. I would likely be suicidal as you went nuts. I simply couldn't imagine a more depressing environment. At least at the bottom of the sea you'd see other life now and then (although you wouldn't see the sun). I was talking with a friend about another friend who retired with us and got a job at Point Thompson near Prudhoe Bay. It's only a 6-9 week gig in the winter, but that would be 6-9 weeks of -40 degree temps or colder, and no sun for even a moment the entire time. You'd may as well be on the dark side of the moon. $3500 per week with all expenses paid ain't enough money......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted April 12, 2019 Admin Share Posted April 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, gigantor said: I'm optimistic, five years ago, the feat below was considered sci-fi... That’s nuts! 2 minutes ago, Huntster said: I would likely be suicidal as you went nuts. I simply couldn't imagine a more depressing environment. At least at the bottom of the sea you'd see other life now and then (although you wouldn't see the sun). I was talking with a friend about another friend who retired with us and got a job at Point Thompson near Prudhoe Bay. It's only a 6-9 week gig in the winter, but that would be 6-9 weeks of -40 degree temps or colder, and no sun for even a moment the entire time. You'd may as well be on the dark side of the moon. $3500 per week with all expenses paid ain't enough money......... North Dakota was bad enough....agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, norseman said: .........North Dakota was bad enough.... Yeah, no trees, too. And polar bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catmandoo Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Elon Musk has stated that the first visitors to Mars should expect to die. I am not sure if it is his spacecraft or NASA's. The first group should find Pathfinder...........it has saved 2 sets of Hollywood actors. Traveling to a life less planet with no oxygen or water is a stretch. The nearest 'Class M' planet is far far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Catmandoo said: ..........Traveling to a life less planet with no oxygen or water is a stretch......... Agreed, but there seems to be no shortage of Americans who are dying to be the one who dies doing the impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted April 12, 2019 Admin Share Posted April 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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