WSA Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 Hunster….I just think you might want to reconsider the idea of a BF population being "trapped" or "hemmed in" by encroaching development. Not even some of the more canny predators like coyotes and cats are inhibited much by those boundaries. Sighting reports of BF all over the continent support a much more nuanced survival strategy, perfectly concordant with the area we are looking at. What the evidence shows is BF are very well adapted to exploit greenways, utility right of ways, creek and river fringes and even pedestrian/bike paths going back and forth at night. If you zoom in on your Google map, thousands of such connections to the wilder areas are in plain view. They apparently cover lots of ground in search of food sources, many of which are human provided. The idea that they are ever bottled up in what is likely only their daylight base of operations for night foraging is not something I'm considering to be likely. It is not lost on them, I'm sure, that when the sun goes down and the A/C units start to hum, they pretty much have the place to themselves. On occasion they are wrong, and somebody walking a dog or sitting on the deck with a cigarette has a sighting, but they are not sticking around to let anyone have a second look , that much is clear. 2
JKH Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 ^Exactly. Here's another fairly recent one, by a biologist, from the smaller preserve areas just north of Tampa. They're thriving all over. https://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=42978
Huntster Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 4 hours ago, WSA said: Hunster….I just think you might want to reconsider the idea of a BF population being "trapped" or "hemmed in" by encroaching development. Not even some of the more canny predators like coyotes and cats are inhibited much by those boundaries. Sighting reports of BF all over the continent support a much more nuanced survival strategy, perfectly concordant with the area we are looking at.......... I'm afraid I have to balance current reports with historic aboriginal accounts, other mammilian densities and histories of abundance/scarcities, and human population explosions. Yes, coyotes populations can even increase alongside human population explosions, cougars can survive alongside such human population explosions, and feral hogs can literally take over rural areas as humans proliferate, but grizzly bears cannot do any of that. Aboriginal accounts universally indicate sasquatches inhabiting the most rugged terrain and only occasionally raiding human villages. Accepting all current reports and thus theorizing that there are 50,000 or more sasquatches running around the continent is to make the failure of discovery that much more fantastic and unlikely. As I posted above, the population density of black bears in Florida is a third of what it was in 1500. Cougars are critically endangered there. The human population of Florida in 1900 was 528,000. Today, 120 years later, it is over 21 million, an increase of 4000%. It is not unreasonable to expect fewer sasquatches, and it is very reasonable to see that there are over 40 times as many people today to see the few sasquatches remaining. This fits the Glickman theory of sighting densities (pages 2-7): http://www.photekimaging.com/Support/rptcol2.pdf 1
WSA Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 Hunster...while historic accounts are of interest, but the modern sighting database is much more comprehensive. Besides, every bit of evidence indicates Sasquatch are supremely adaptive and intelligent. That they wouldn't be able to figure out new strategies for changing conditions is not a point I am willing to seriously consider. They do, and they have. that is what the sighting data tells us.
Huntster Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 1 hour ago, WSA said: Hunster...while historic accounts are of interest, but the modern sighting database is much more comprehensive. Besides, every bit of evidence indicates Sasquatch are supremely adaptive and intelligent. That they wouldn't be able to figure out new strategies for changing conditions is not a point I am willing to seriously consider. They do, and they have. that is what the sighting data tells us. Let me try this another way: biology......... https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/3/what-is-the-minimum-human-population-necessary-for-a-sustainable-colony ...........This is known as the Minimum Viable Population, and many computer models and studies based on various circumstances and species have been run. For Humans, including the desire to ward of genetic defects due to inbreeding the median MVPreported is 4,169 individuals.......... https://www.britannica.com/science/minimum-viable-population#ref1215147 .........They created the “50/500” rule, which suggested that a minimum population size of 50 was necessary to combat inbreeding and a minimum of 500 individuals was needed to reduce genetic drift. Management agencies tended to use the 50/500 rule under the assumption that it was applicable to species generally......... If it was true that sasquatches "are supremely adaptive and intelligent" and they are "able to figure out new strategies for changing conditions", they would (as I posited earlier) be fleeing Disney World as if their fannies were on fire, and they wouldn't go back. Their ultimate threat and enemies (Homo sapiens) are overrunning the place faster than at any time in near or distant history, and bringing with them dangers that never existed in history before, like locomotives, trucks, and automobiles. How many sasquatches do you think might inhabit Florida? Do you think there is movements or migrations into the Okefenokee region in Georgia from mid or southern Florida.......for example, when young male or female sasquatches mature?
Patterson-Gimlin Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 Being from Florida I have spent lots of time in the swamps and especially in the Okefenokee. Lots of aligators ,snakes ,etc and of course water. Appears to be lots of wildlife. The difference in now and my youth is its frequented by lots of humans.
Explorer Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 10:41 AM, Huntster said: Below is an SSR map readout of every report within 50 miles of the center of the Green Swamp. They range in date from 1955 to last year. The 1955 report is the one that is nearly in today's downtown Tampa. Hunter, thanks for putting together the SSR Database map with the 50 mile radius. It does give credence to the claim that BFs have been reported in the Green Swamp area. Using the same SSR database, I created the table below of only Class A reports by county The 4 counties that surround the Green Swamp (Pasco, Sumter, Lake and Polk) do show above average sightings for the Florida counties. So the Green Swamp area might be one of those key Florida areas with a signal instead of random noise. Attached is a Florida county map to help folks see where the 4 mentioned above fit. The green corridor idea is a possibility. There might be something to it if you consider all the conserved lands in Florida (see attached map). Granted, this is nothing compared to PNW or Canada, but still people are reporting BF sightings in Florida and there is no apparent difference in quality of report between those in FL and PNW. 1
Huntster Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) Very well done, Explorer! Edited May 9, 2019 by Huntster
Explorer Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 I found the following report on a BF sighting in the Green Swamp area from a research group called the Pangea Institute. Apparently, this group was doing field research there in 2006 when they had a sighting (see link below). The group was led by Scott Marlow - who apparently had his first sighting in that area back in 1985. I have no idea of their current status. This report is not in the BFRO or SSR list. There is an interesting drawing of the creature they saw. https://cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/newgreenswamp/comment-page-1/
Huntster Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Explorer said: .........The green corridor idea is a possibility. There might be something to it if you consider all the conserved lands in Florida (see attached map).......... I believe very much in the green corridor theory, and if there are sasquatches south of the Green Swamp, they surely use it in north/south movements. That said, I still maintain that any sasquatch population in a peninsula like Florida, and especially when other large mammilian predators like black bears (especially) and cougars are under threat and are dropping in numbers, are in serious trouble. I doubt they will survive there long.
JustCurious Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 I think it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that individual sighting reports = individual Bigfoot/Sasquatch. That isn't necessarily true. Years ago, I was looking at BFRO reports and noticed that within about a months time there were 3 reported sightings in 3 different states that all converged to a small geographic area. I think those 3 reports represented one Sasquatch on the move. For that reason, I think it's a good idea to look at chronology of the sighting reports too. 50 reports could mean just 5 or 10 Sasquatch. So both could be correct, there are a lot of sightings around green spaces, but very few Sasquatch. 1
NatFoot Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 @JustCurious But that goes against what @Huntster just laid out. They can't be both right unless there's something "weird" going on here.
ShadowBorn Posted May 9, 2019 Moderator Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Huntster said: black bears (especially) and cougars are under threat and are dropping in numbers, are in serious trouble But under threat from what ? Like humans moving in or like a larger predator then them? A predator that is even more evasive then humans that has even a greater appetite then a cougar/panther or a black bear? If this was so then what would this tell us about this species that we know as Bigfoot/ swamp ape. That these creatures are the apex of North America and are up there with the Kodiak brown bears. Except that these things live not a step away from our back yards.
Huntster Posted May 9, 2019 Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, NatFoot said: @JustCurious But that goes against what @Huntster just laid out. They can't be both right unless there's something "weird" going on here. Not at all. It fits perfectly with my position, as discussed by Glickman's theory. In short, in a wilderness area with 100 reports and few people in the area, there will be more sasquatches than an area filled with people and 100 reports. There are just a few sasquatches, but lots of people for them to bump in to. Also, that area with lots of people was likely quite rural just a generation ago. For example, Miami became an incorporated city in 1896 with just 300 residents.
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