Stick Structures are not evidence

[SWWASAS]

So your premise is that someone who did not know me, knew I would be interested in stick glyphs,   waited until I turned my back,   then crawled to the very stump I had placed my pack on,   assembled the glyph with rocks that were not from the immediate area, then retreated without being seen?    I was using the root ball as a visual reference to try to maintain my line to the stump on the ridge.    I kept the compass bearing reciprocal on the root ball.    Who/whatever placed the glyph had to have crawled to put it there without being seen.    I cannot see a human doing that unless they followed me from home.   If someone was doing that you really have a conspiracy.    

[WSA]

The coincidental probabilities are always, always there. The actual likelihood of them actually occurring  just becomes vanishingly small the more often stories like these are repeated. Too much has to happen, in the correct order, and the motivations have to meet the capabilities. It becomes so unfathomable that you find yourself asking yourself, "Why do I resist what the data is saying to me?"  After all, if you don't like the data, don't blame it. Blame yourself.

[SWWASAS]

Exactly WSA.     It often boils down to probability.    The circumstances of the events leading to the placement of that glyph on the stump make it very unlikely that it was some human.    No cars at trail heads when you park,   no humans seen all day,   no cars at the trail head when you leave pretty well points to no humans in the area.    The placer of the glyph had to have followed me to the stump,  placed it,  then cleared out for the timing to work.   Or they were there when I came and left.     Oh the stump squatch on the ridge above that I was trying to get to 24 hours after photographing it, was not there a week later.   The glyph was gone too.     So the human messing with me must have taken down the stump squatch and removed the glyph too within a week?    But, and this is a big but,   this area was in a square mile where I had found several footprints over several years time,   got stuff thrown at me,  got growled at,   and eventually got zapped with infra-sound.    A very industrious human must have been there constantly over several years to fool me like that.    But all are welcome to cling to disbelief if you choose to.   

[ioyza]

6 minutes ago, WSA said:

"Why do I resist what the data is saying to me?"

 

I think you've come up with the perfect course name for Bigfoot 101, wherein stick structures are within the first couple weeks of lectures.

 

Here, here's ten years' worth of fairly casual pursuit of this subject: https://imgur.com/a/0xNmCuy

 

Yep, weather and boy scouts, every single one. Same with the encounters surrounding them. /shrug

[SWWASAS]

Of course,  boy scouts are officially blamed by the US Park Service for the Ape Canyon attack on the miners.     Its right in their pamphlet on the subject.   I believe everything the government tells me.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by SWWASAS

[norseman]

49 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

So your premise is that someone who did not know me, knew I would be interested in stick glyphs,   waited until I turned my back,   then crawled to the very stump I had placed my pack on,   assembled the glyph with rocks that were not from the immediate area, then retreated without being seen?    I was using the root ball as a visual reference to try to maintain my line to the stump on the ridge.    I kept the compass bearing reciprocal on the root ball.    Who/whatever placed the glyph had to have crawled to put it there without being seen.    I cannot see a human doing that unless they followed me from home.   If someone was doing that you really have a conspiracy.    

 

Somebody could have observed you coming into the area and wanted you to leave. Because of illegal activities. What is more plausible? Did a small Asian person crawl to the stump? Or a 800 lbs ape man? Which would have been more observable?

 

Either way it’s creepy. I believe you.

52 minutes ago, WSA said:

The coincidental probabilities are always, always there. The actual likelihood of them actually occurring  just becomes vanishingly small the more often stories like these are repeated. Too much has to happen, in the correct order, and the motivations have to meet the capabilities. It becomes so unfathomable that you find yourself asking yourself, "Why do I resist what the data is saying to me?"  After all, if you don't like the data, don't blame it. Blame yourself.

 

Im basing it off the experiences I had in the area. I’m not resisting the data, I’m accepting it. He heard Asian talk and had a glyph put on a stump. I was stopped in the middle of nowhere in the GPNF by a illegal Asian mushroom picker 10 miles from his car.

 

Its just an observation. It doesn’t mean that’s what happened.

[SWWASAS]

Well for those that want a government conspiracy that stump is 1/2 mile from the NEON site that was built several years later.   Pesky government agents hit me with infra sound to scare me away?  That truck picture was taken at a couple of years after the glyph finding at the same trail head I parked at when I found the glyph.     Why it was there I do not know since they cut a road straight into the NEON site.   

Edited May 20, 2019 by SWWASAS

[ShadowBorn]

Sww

There is no sign that some thing crawled up to that stump. There is sign that some thing did walk up to it though. You can see this sign by the broken grass coming from the top left of the picture and from the top right picture. What ever it was looks like it walked right up to this stump  from either the top left of the picture and walked away from the top right of the stump. Unless this is your track but from the way you took this picture it looks like you walked up on this stump from the bottom of the picture..  So what I am trying to say is that what ever left this glyph tried to leave as little sign as possible so that it would not be notice. 

 

You give no directional value of from where this creature came from and that would be helpful and understanding to what you heard. The things that I have found I have always looked for the direction of where it came from and the direction of where it went. I then would  take a compass reading of that direction and start to track. I have found tracks doing this and even on hard leaves covered ground.. Once I would find one track I would start to look for a second track and a third and start to get a sense of direction that it was moving .This for me is like a game and it is fun looking for their tracks. The only main issue is not getting lost when you get to involved.

 

Looking at your picture of the glyph my first thing was to look for sign of direction.

[SWWASAS]

I took the picture of the stump from the trail that ran past it.     The short ends of the sticks point in the direction that I left and returned to the stump so the bent grass you are seeing beyond the stump is likely what I did myself leaving the stump and returning to it from the clear cut area.    Other than the slash piles,   all the cover was on the other side of the trail.      The tree ball I mentioned was directly behind me and the camera across the trail from the stump.       I think it likely that the placer of the glyph approached along the tree that blew down to form the root ball.   Human or BF,   that would have provided cover to within a few feet of the stump.     The Asian voice I heard was to the right  of the stump as you see it in the picture.    The fairly well used human trail ran left and right relative to the stump in the picture.  I was standing in the trail.       In this area, I have never found a footprint on a human trail as if the BF was using the trail.    All finds where where a BF stepped across the human trail and left prints on both trail margins.   I do not know if it is a conscious decision to avoid using human trails for fear of encountering a human,  avoiding the muddy spots that gather in the depressions of the trail,    or if the BF simply wants to travel in a different direction than humans do.   Crossings are usually associated with a faint game trail that crosses the human trail.   But significantly deer and elk do not seem to use the faint trails that the BF footprint finds were located on.   I am guessing that the residual smell of BF feet scare the hell out of deer and elk.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by SWWASAS

[SWWASAS]

For those into conspiracy I have been a member of this forum for a long time.   I did not divulge locations of events for several years on the forum, until the research area was logged and went inactive.      Before that happened I submitted a BFRO report on the chest beating thing in reaction to me urinating.    I thought that ape like behavior significant and wanted it in a data base.     In that BFRO report I published the exact location of the event event and my research area for the first time.  .   Following that,   within months I found spray painting on trees at the exact location.      The road leading into my research area, normally open during summer months was gated shut and never opened again.     Beyond the most active area,   two 4 foot ditches were cut across the road and large boulders moved into the road.    You could no longer drive into or past my research area.     The most active area was posted with blue signs designating it as a Special Management area.      Clear cutting jumped over this area and did not touch it.   Another road was cut in to provide access to exactly the same old road beyond the active area.      Then the NEON site was built at the intersection of the old road and the new road.     But one thing seemed to lead to another.   And there is no earthly reason for that new road being built when the old road went to exactly the same place.        The old road is wider, smoother, and not a rough as the new one.    The only difference is that the old road ran past this Special Management Area.     I have requested the reason for the Special Management Area at this location from the state and never gotten a response.   It is State forest not National Forest.  Coincidence?   Probably.    What do you think?   

[ioyza]

Relevant Michael Merchant ramble: 

 

 

edit: (apologies for all the 'woo', forgot he got into that in this vid, feel free to remove or ignore if inappropriate)

Edited May 20, 2019 by ioyza

[norseman]

4 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

For those into conspiracy I have been a member of this forum for a long time.   I did not divulge locations of events for several years on the forum, until the research area was logged and went inactive.      Before that happened I submitted a BFRO report on the chest beating thing in reaction to me urinating.    I thought that ape like behavior significant and wanted it in a data base.     In that BFRO report I published the exact location of the event event and my research area for the first time.  .   Following that,   within months I found spray painting on trees at the exact location.      The road leading into my research area, normally open during summer months was gated shut and never opened again.     Beyond the most active area,   two 4 foot ditches were cut across the road and large boulders moved into the road.    You could no longer drive into or past my research area.     The most active area was posted with blue signs designating it as a Special Management area.      Clear cutting jumped over this area and did not touch it.   Another road was cut in to provide access to exactly the same old road beyond the active area.      Then the NEON site was built at the intersection of the old road and the new road.     But one thing seemed to lead to another.   And there is no earthly reason for that new road being built when the old road went to exactly the same place.        The old road is wider, smoother, and not a rough as the new one.    The only difference is that the old road ran past this Special Management Area.     I have requested the reason for the Special Management Area at this location from the state and never gotten a response.   It is State forest not National Forest.  Coincidence?   Probably.    What do you think?   

 

Weird.

[Twist]

Honestly, I believe you may read to much into things. You may be so deep in BF belief that you attribute any and all signs to BF or BF conspiracy.   I may be 100% wrong. I’m open to many possibilities.   That’s my opinion.  

[Incorrigible1]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

Honestly, I believe you may read to much into things. You may be so deep in BF belief that you attribute any and all signs to BF or BF conspiracy.   I may be 100% wrong. I’m open to many possibilities.   That’s my opinion.  

And random, haphazard wood or brush natural assemblages attributed to an unknown, giant woods ape.

[WSA]

I see we are still blaming the data.  Thus it ever was, I reckon. 

 

Look... "haphazard and natural" ain't what this thread is addressing, nor should it be, in my opinion.  If you really, REALLY can't tell which is, and which isn't, you should probably just admit that and we'll excuse you...see you in another conversation. BUT, if you have that ability to discern, you are left with only two possibilities...unless you have others we've not heard, and in which case, sure, I'm all ears. Barring that, argue for one or the other, I'd just propose,  but don't kill the data for saying what the data says.

 

One thing I did not really appreciate until I watched the video up-thread is, yes, these things are almost exclusively constructed of dead and de-barked wood. Fairly significant consistency, I must admit. What are the chances that people are constructing these anyway, but how improbable is it that they all, somehow, are in agreement on the type of materials to use? So how is BF, if BF be making these things? Pretty **** good question.