Sightings Section

[norseman]

1 minute ago, hiflier said:

WOW! Dyer, Standing, and Biscardi did five year double blind DNA studies too? I didn't know that.

 

Your taste in horse manure just has more sprinkles on it..... 

 

There is nothing in her DNA study.....just as there is nothing in Biscardi’s freezer.

[hiflier]

Fine lump her in with those losers and just forget about the university laves and the credentialed people than ran the tests along with criminologists with 30 years experience running DNA tests. Never mind them they are as bad a dyer and the rest. Her "patsies" as you call them. Professional people of science but to you they are just more horse manure on the pile. None of those 12 labs knew what the samples were or where they came from and yet the results as explained by 9dot speak for themselves. Oh but Ketchum is an evil, evil person who was out to shaft the community so lets just throw the scientific horse out with the horse manure shall we. And 9dot says there was something in that study that was significant. How about you run that down and leave the character bashing behind for a while. It's not scientific.

 

I don't get it Norseman. I talk about the e-DNA from the nests and talk about my misgivings in how that was handled and I don't hear boo out of you but mention Ketchum and your negative campaign goes into full swing. What gives with that? There are two sides to the Ketchum study. The difference is I don't think she set out to deceive anyone but more importantly there are still things in those genomes that need to be addressed. And no matter what you say that won't change.

 

I agree with you on some of the things you say but I am not ready to walk away from a five year until I am danged sure that the things that have been aligned against it are sound. And I'm not talking about opinion either. I'm talking about AGCT, TACG's CTAG's and all the rest of the genetic markers that quite honestly NO ONE has the time to go through. Billions of sequences and the glossing over of that to me is suspect. Even Disotell talked about the language being confusing- and to my knowledge has never studied the DNA sequences themselves. Personally I think your vehemence over Ketchum has interfered with going after the science, not some skeptic's opinion of the science, and you conveniently never mention just how the SGP was set up and conducted. Opponents say contamination, proponents say, everything was done correctly. There is no way 12 professional labs screwed up DNA 101 and botched those samples.

 

There's is more to this than simply manbearpig, my friend. How much more? Oh, about a trillion dollars in lost revenue every year should Sasquatch be proven real. In truth I think that would be even a conservative estimate. Do you think that amount of cabbage is enough to thwart the sasquatch Genome Project? I certainly do. And th e-DNA results on the OP nest finds? Oh my yes, because those nests are just short of bursting the dam wide open. Mark my words on that.   

[norseman]

6 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Fine lump her in with those losers and just forget about the university laves and the credentialed people than ran the tests along with criminologists with 30 years experience running DNA tests. Never mind them they are as bad a dyer and the rest. Her "patsies" as you call them. Professional people of science but to you they are just more horse manure on the pile. None of those 12 labs knew what the samples were or where they came from and yet the results as explained by 9dot speak for themselves. Oh but Ketchum is an evil, evil person who was out to shaft the community so lets just throw the scientific horse out with the horse manure shall we. And 9dot says there was something in that study that was significant. How about you run that down and leave the character bashing behind for a while. It's not scientific.

 

I don't get it Norseman. I talk about the e-DNA from the nests and talk about my misgivings in how that was handled and I don't hear boo out of you but mention Ketchum and your negative campaign goes into full swing. What gives with that? There are two sides to the Ketchum study. The difference is I don't think she set out to deceive anyone but more importantly there are still things in those genomes that need to be addressed. And no matter what you say that won't change.

 

I agree with you on some of the things you say but I am not ready to walk away from a five year until I am danged sure that the things that have been aligned against it are sound. And I'm not talking about opinion either. I'm talking about AGCT, TACG's CTAG's and all the rest of the genetic markers that quite honestly NO ONE has the time to go through. Billions of sequences and the glossing over of that to me is suspect. Even Disotell talked about the language being confusing- and to my knowledge has never studied the DNA sequences themselves. Personally I think your vehemence over Ketchum has interfered with going after the science, not some skeptic's opinion of the science, and you conveniently never mention just how the SGP was set up and conducted. Opponents say contamination, proponents say, everything was done correctly. There is no way 12 professional labs screwed up DNA 101 and botched those samples.

 

There's is more to this than simply manbearpig, my friend. How much more? Oh, about a trillion dollars in lost revenue every year should Sasquatch be proven real. In truth I think that would be even a conservative estimate. Do you think that amount of cabbage is enough to thwart the sasquatch Genome Project? I certainly do. And th e-DNA results on the OP nest finds? Oh my yes, because those nests are just short of bursting the dam wide open. Mark my words on that.   

 

Show me where the Olympic project is purposefully deceiving people!!!???

 

They found nests. They called in experts. DNA samples were collected. The DNA showed nothing novel. End of story.

 

How is that even remotely comparable to the Melba Ketchum goat rodeo?!!! Did they bolster their nesting site find with a sleeping Chewbacca costume rolling around in the dirt? Of course not.

 

How are you so gullible Hiflier that you cannot discern between the Erickson project and the Olympic project? It boggle the mind.

 

 

[hiflier]

You know something, Norseman? You don't read what I say or else don't remember it. The OP nest samples were sat on for a year and a half by Meldrum and so were degraded. Oh, but he's a good guy right? Not his fault or anyone else's right? And that's not a "goat rodeo"? But Ketchum's was a "goat rodeo"? Your dialogue is getting worse on that front. It isn't scientific- it's embarrassing. because of your constant barrage of slamming, damming word choices every chance you get. I think it's disgusting. I can't even talk to you anymore

 

For the record I NEVER said the Olympic Project was deceiving people. I move that the samples were sat on for a reason and it wasn't for lack of $5000. I think the government is playing a bad role in all of this. Everyone's afraid of their F&W because they think their lives will be somehow made miserable if they pursue agencies with simple questions. Sasquatch remains an unknown on purpose and I cannot state that too emphatically. Connect that however you will it's the ONLY thing that's making any sense in all of it. Government has to know about Sasquatch and public knowledge will cost the government dearly and anyone else connected to a livelihood that would be disrupted upon discovery. This isn't paranoia, Norseman, this is coming from an awful lot of study of things government and otherwise. I assume you know that low frequency waves cause fear? Study THAT one and see if our society is or is not a victim of that kind of program. WiFi is everywhere- it would be easy to piggyback frequencies we're not even aware of.

Edited June 5, 2019 by hiflier

[norseman]

14 minutes ago, hiflier said:

You know something, Norseman? You don't read what I say or else don't remember it. The OP nest samples were sat on for a year and a half by Meldrum and so were degraded. Oh, but he's a good guy right? Not his fault or anyone else's right? And that's not a "goat rodeo"? But Ketchum's was a "goat rodeo"? Your dialogue is getting worse on that front. It isn't scientific- it's embarrassing. because of your constant barrage of slamming, damming word choices every chance you get. I think it's disgusting. I can't even talk to you anymore  

 

If you want to make the comparison that Meldrum and Ketchum are in the same league? It’s best you don’t. It’s a ridiculous comparison.

 

 

[hiflier]

10 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

If you want to make the comparison that Meldrum and Ketchum are in the same league? It’s best you don’t. It’s a ridiculous comparison.

 

Please, don't put words in my mouth or jump to conclusions that don't exist. If I was going to compare those two I would have. I don't equate them because they AREN'T in the same league. I'm not stupid ya know. I also don't equate Ketchum as being in the same league as the ones who ran her tests. I know exactly what her position was in the project and never considered her an authority on any of it. The difference between you and me is I can see past her and through her to what's really important. To me she's a non-issue, always has been. For me it's all about the science. Period. And the 12 labs of qualified people who really DID run the sequences. They are ALWAYS and ONLY who I was ever interested in. You don't get 12 high caliber labs who contaminate their samples. If they did they would have been history LONG before Ketchum came on the scene.

Edited June 5, 2019 by hiflier

[norseman]

Just defend THIS... her words.

 

Part human.....part lemur. She has obviously watched the Island of Dr. Moreau, one to many times

 

 

[hiflier]

Norseman, what is it about me that you're not getting? Or refuse to get? Or are not listening to? You keep going back to Ketchum. I keep going back to the qualified people that have nothing in common with her. You keep harping on what SHE said. I could give a rat's behind about what she said and got way past that years ago. You would be wise to do the same and just let it go. What she said and what is? is two different things. Because she said 'Lemur" you hang your arguments on it? Because she said 13,000 year old coupling you hang you're arguments on it? Well I don't. Because even I, a stupid layman, can see those errors. But unlike yourself I didn't stop there. On the other side, past Ketchum, there was a lot of good sound scientific qualifications and technique and Even stupid me could see that. And I'm not about to let her overshadow the entire study.

 

You want to hold Ketchum up as a reason for trashing the whole thing? Well, bud, that's up to you but I have never allowed her to be "the study". And that's the most important thing you can understand about me on the issue. I just do not let Ketchum get in the way of anything no matter what she did or said. She's a non-starter when it comes to what's important to me in all of this. But she's important to you and the best thing is to treat her as if the was the cleaning lady and not someone who was in those 12 labs that the genomes came out of unless she was there wiping up coffee spills.. I can't put it any simpler than that. Hell, I have a white coat too but it doesn't make me a scientist. There were high level labs involved and that's where my focus is and always has been. I just won't have it any other way. You have serious issues with her and I don't blame you. But in my mind's eye Ketchum is the jello, the study itself is where the real meat is and I will not allow her to take that away.    

[norseman]

Your not going to let Melba Ketchum sway you from the “real meat” of Melba Ketchum’s report? So basically Hiflier is going to save Melba Ketchum from herself?

 

🧐

 

 

[hiflier]

The report isn't hers. She didn't know enough about a Human genome to write it. I doubt that outside of horses she would know the difference between the lemur's and an anteater's DNA. She was a horse lady and to this day anything she said about the Sasquatch genomes was fed to her by someone experienced with that kind of sequencing. She was the mouthpiece not the source. I think you give her way too much credit in the field of genomics. Horses DNA to establish thoroughbred lineage? Sure. Human nuDNA interpretation? Not a chance. Someone else gave her the answers to the test because she was the public face on the project. And whoever did didn't want their name out there because they were experienced enough to know that their association with Sasquatch would be bad news. Hell, I even had a PUBLISHER tell me he didn't want his name associated with my book. That's how bad it is out there.

 

Ketchum took it in the face for everyone and worse because she really didn't know what she was talking about. Instead she tried to repeat what other people told her and failed miserably. Have you ever known anyone personally or professionally who did that? I have. Some were good people too, and knew their stuff but when asked to speak publicly they screwed up every time and looked ignorant. And it wasn't even about something as monumental as a Sasquatch genome. Nope the smart ones said nothing and let Ketchum suffer the consequences they knew were coming. Because it was Bigfoot. Don't need any other reason than that. The piranhas came out of the woodwork and ate her alive. Meantime, the pros at the 12 labs get to just go on with their lives and professions while Ketchum goes down in flames. I slowly became surprised by none of it. They eat their own out there. Sometimes here too.

Edited June 5, 2019 by hiflier

[norseman]

The mental gymnastics you put yourself through is amazing.....

 

So Melba Ketchum is horrible with genetics.....on that we can both agree.

 

But her report she put out is not hers..... so whose is it?

 

And her report’s data describes a bona fide unclassified hominid according to you. And yet Ketchum reports that her data describes a half human and a half lemur, which is biologically an impossibility. To which you say, never mind what Ketchum says.....she doesn’t know what she is talking about. Not to mention Matilda the Chewbacca mask is an obvious hoax that Ketchum claimed to be real.

 

I say never mind what the report says.... in its entirety! If you wanna believe that some hyper intelligent shadowy scientists behind Melba Ketchum wrote the report and Melba mucked it all up for them? That’s your prerogative. But I say yer cheese has slid off yer cracker. There is no “real meat”.....it’s ALL jello.

 

 

[hiflier]

24 minutes ago, norseman said:

But her report she put out is not hers..... so whose is it?

 

 My best answer would be two people, Prychitko ans Zhang. She couldn't hold  candle to Zhang. And Prytchitko according to his resume was the one who did the evolutionary genetic pathway research.

 

28 minutes ago, norseman said:

And her report’s data describes a bona fide unclassified hominid according to you.

 

Didn't say that. The study has elements in the nuDNA that need clarifying and IMO it's not a closed case yet.

 

30 minutes ago, norseman said:

And yet Ketchum reports that her data describes a half human and a half lemur, which is biologically an impossibility

 

Where do you read "half" of anything? I've not seen anything that says "half". It the sequence shows the relaxed gene that may indicate a tapetum lucidum then it would be the same as a lemur's relaxed tapetum lucidum gene. I tried to contact her but by the time I did she was long past responding to anything.

 

34 minutes ago, norseman said:

she doesn’t know what she is talking about. Not to mention Matilda the Chewbacca mask is an obvious hoax that Ketchum claimed to be real

 

Why do you let what she SAYS be more important than the known science of DNA?  For myself, I stopped listening to her and stopped considering her an authority on the subject. I saw everyone else's credentials and haven't really given her a thought since. There are elements in the genome that need addressing and that's what I've been trying to pay attention to. Mainly because I trust how the labs handled the samples. Not talking Smeja here. Talking about the other 130+samples. So 130 samples/3 genomes. The OP had 5 samples with normal animals plus Human. So the DNA stuff is getting better, no?

 

43 minutes ago, norseman said:

But I say yer cheese has slid off yer cracker

 

Yeah, you always say that  Go ahead, ask me if I care. Understand Norseman that these are my opinions based on everything I could get my hands to read on along with videos and podcasts. There is something in the nuDNA and it isn't manbearpig. Because, as you say, it would be impossible. And I say it as well. If it's impossible then it must be something else IDK, maybe 9dot knows how to dig deeper or has assets that can. All I know is I can only take things so far and really need someone to take the ball and run with it. I just don't know enough to follow the data and understand it. Talking specifically about the specific critical sequences. I want to know about the impossibility of the 13,000 year old European. Solutrean? Cro-Magnon? Clovis? Other? One might wonder if even if a small sequence of Neanderthal though they were long gone by then? Ya got three species of Denisovans now the bush called Homo is getting pretty incredible. It's a lot easier to say "possible" than it used to be that's for sure.

[hiflier]

Speaking of Pritchenko, (Dr. Tom Pritchenko PhD) Read his resume in the SGP very carefully. You'll begin to understand why I think he was a big influence on Ketchum. I bolded/underlined what I think are the important aspects of that resume:

 

"Dr. Tom Prychitko received both his master’s and doctorate degrees from Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. Tom is a molecular biologist with a background that also includes evolutionary biology, microbiology and biochemistry. He has worked extensively in academia and has been involved with a number of biological research programs throughout his career from which he has published several manuscripts. Tom has long had an interest in cryptozoology and has been intrigued by the possibility that creatures long described in myth and legend may in reality actually exist. No stranger to Sasquatch research, he conducted DNA testing on samples from the Carter Farm and elsewhere several years ago, resulting in haplotype data included in the SGP. A firm believer that science has no boundaries, Tom believes that we have only scratched the surface on what we can possibly learn and discover. Tom is currently laboratory director at Helix Biological Laboratory, a biological testing firm he established in 2009. He also is an adjunct instructor for the Department of Biological Sciences at Wayne State University."

 

Now go look this guy up. the website Helix is there but says nothing about cryptozoology or the SGP study. He is still the director of Helix though from what I can tell and is still affiliated with Wayne University. Also, the Carter Farm, which was Mary Green who wrote "50 Years With Bigfoot" had this video from 2002 which was 12 years before the SGP. I think Tom had a lot to do with Ketchum's mindset and was a big influence on the interpretation of the results. The Carter Farm was in Tennessee and the Erickson Project was Kentucky so I think they must have known each other? The Matilda thing is a sad aspect of the whole affair but Melba bought into it because of these strong players in the Bigfoot field in which Erickson was a major financial contributor as well. I think everyone played her for her naivete. If Erickson had the nerve to pawn off a Chewbacca mask then he had the nerve to dupe Ketchum even though it looked like she was part of the Project.

The only reason I brought Mary Green's video here is because Dr. Pritchenko had a history on the Carter Farm. I'm sure the late Ms. Green had no  involvement with the SGP or Erickson/Matilda. 

 

[norseman]

So as if it couldn’t get any stranger..... Melba Ketchum’s team is somehow tied into the Carter farm and the Fox clan of Bigfeets habituation site?

 

This lady? That feds Bigfeets from her porch?

 

 

 

 

[9-dot]

Norse and hiflier - if you keep up at this you guys are both going to have heart attacks (hiflier your 1st, Norse your 3rd?).  I'm sitting back with my popcorn and a cold one - and I'm wishing you both the very best!
BTW I thoroughly enjoyed reading Mary Green's/Janice Carter's book.

Regarding molecular genetics assets I have none save for having fairly close acquaintances that were involved with the SGP.  I have some ideas regarding Sasquatch DNA that relate to future collection and testing (needs my attention).  I consider any and  all additional data as important.