The Genetic Markers Of A Sasquatch

[MIB]

4 minutes ago, hiflier said:

we haven't needed full genomes for either Denisovans or Neanderthals

 

Are you sure this is correct?    We have both, I think?   And if so, we now know where to look to tell one from the other.    Were we able to tell them apart before having the full workup?   Mito, that is, not nuclear.    How does this relate to where we are with sasquatch with no proven samples?    I think we have to start with the full workup, then figure out what the differences are, rather than assume specific differences, then be lost when we don't find them, which seems to be where we are at now.

 

You are asking good questions, don't get me wrong, I'm just doubtful of the assumptions behind them. 

 

Oh .. side note ... you are correct in questioning the $5000 stumbling block for the e-DNA testing.    With Wally Hersom being a member of the OP, $5000 is not the problem.   Likewise, many of the people involved could have spared $5000 if that's truly the problem and they were confident of the outcome.   It has to be something else.   Perhaps they wanted public buy-in for the purposes of visibility so that gov't would not try to gag them if they got positive results.   I don't know, I'm still pondering that question, and that's only a wild guess.

 

MIB

[hiflier]

1 minute ago, MIB said:

Perhaps they wanted public buy-in for the purposes of visibility so that gov't would not try to gag them if they got positive results.   I don't know, I'm still pondering that question, and that's only a wild guess.

 

I think you nailed the issue of keeping the testing in private hands and out of government's or maybe even academia's which could be assumed in some cases to also be government? I have also considered the quiet landscape of whatever progress has been made to data and so assume there are non-disclosure agreements in place to protect rights for future documentaries and papers on the subject. I did look back at the Indiegogo fundraiser site and saw that the initial goal was $7,500 and that donations by 52 individuals was closed at $4,728. And for some reason I think it was mentioned by someone that Wally Hersom stopped supporting the Olympic Project. Whether that's true or not I don't know. I just went to the Olympic Project's website and got this notice:

 

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.   

[hiflier]

This is interesting: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1758-2229.12725

 

"The eDNA degradation rate was positively correlated with moisture and temperature, but negatively correlated with soil organic carbon content. End‐point stabilization of eDNA was highest at low moisture and temperature, but exhibited no relationship with soil organic carbon. Tilled soils had higher rates of degradation and less stabilization than no‐till soils. Among different habitats we observed that forest soils had the slowest degradation rate, and meadow soils had the greatest stabilization of eDNA. While eDNA was detectable by qPCR in all treatments across all time‐points, it became inconsistently detectable with high‐throughput gene sequencing in less than 1 week. We conclude that eDNA degradation and stabilization dynamics vary with moisture, temperature and habitat characteristics, that small amounts of eDNA may persist in soils indefinitely, and that the ability of persistent eDNA to impact microbial community estimates depends on method sensitivity and experimental objectives."

Edited September 30, 2019 by hiflier

[SWWASAS]

Most of academia is government,  at least government at the state level.   Add to that the factor that much of the grant money available to academia has government sources.     Looking at Oregon and Washington universities,  they would have a vested interest in protecting local industries, of which timber is way up there in importance to the state.       The question would be if that would include cover up.    Money is a powerful force that always must be reckoned with.  

[ShadowBorn]

Hiflier

Now this is total hypothetical and  really think about what I am saying. What if we were to take a Human DnA and remove some of it's genetic markers that make up that Human. We then replace those genetic markers of what we believe these creatures seem to have. Like their hair color , luminescent eye features , their height features  well you get where I am going with this. We then place what we did to this DnA in a simulator where it is created into this creature . We now will have a clear picture to what these creatures might look like in true life form. What I should be asking is do we have this capability to perform this action on a computer. 

[hiflier]

Good for you, ShadowBorn. That's exactly what I'm getting at. We already have DNA data as digital information. If it wasn't for computers we wouldn't have a GenBank and wouldn't be able to do any meta-barcode matching.There are data points in Neanderthal DNA and Denisovan DNS and, yes, Great Ape/Chimpanzee DNA, that can be accessed digitally for say a heavy brow ridge. So, determine the location (Locus) on the DNA helix that carries the gene for the information on cranial development and isolate the brow data. Match that information or the combinations of information to the phenotype (outward physical appearance) and keep substituting information in a genome with information for each of a Sasquatch's physical characteristics.

 

As I said, working backwards from phenotypes (body characteristic) to the information in the genome responsible for producing those physical characteristics. There is a gene that controls hair which will have a bunch of alleles each containing a bunch of base pairs. Those alleles and their base pairs are what is used in the selection process that gets translated by RNA and interpreted into the various phenotype exhibited in the body of a creature whether it be a bird, an earthworm, a horse, or whatever. Except in this case it would be A Human genome with all of it's variables for making a hominid in whatever shape, size, or other possibilities within a Human framework.

 

Since individuals are different from each other there is some latitude in which alleles and base pair combinations get selected. I think it can be done because we have enough DNA data to know what will result in what. It's how we can project a Denisovan from a finger bone. The digital DNA information is there. We just need to know who, if anyone, is actually doing this kind of research.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by hiflier

[bipedalist]

I think this article delineates the complexities involved in this search for Sasquatch dna.  The hominin-E and hominin-X unknown archaic hominin contributions to modern human dna discussion is fascinating nevertheless:

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/fade/fe398d7343dc483a9b858a5627667f4f470e.pdf

HOMININADMIXTURES.pdf

Edited October 1, 2019 by bipedalist

[bipedalist]

On 9/29/2019 at 7:17 PM, MIB said:

 

Are you sure this is correct?    We have both, I think?   And if so, we now know where to look to tell one from the other.    Were we able to tell them apart before having the full workup?   Mito, that is, not nuclear.    How does this relate to where we are with sasquatch with no proven samples?    I think we have to start with the full workup, then figure out what the differences are, rather than assume specific differences, then be lost when we don't find them, which seems to be where we are at now.

 

You are asking good questions, don't get me wrong, I'm just doubtful of the assumptions behind them. 

 

Oh .. side note ... you are correct in questioning the $5000 stumbling block for the e-DNA testing.    With Wally Hersom being a member of the OP, $5000 is not the problem.   Likewise, many of the people involved could have spared $5000 if that's truly the problem and they were confident of the outcome.   It has to be something else.   Perhaps they wanted public buy-in for the purposes of visibility so that gov't would not try to gag them if they got positive results.   I don't know, I'm still pondering that question, and that's only a wild guess.

 

MIB

 

The references in the admixture article I posted up made reference to the whole genome Neanderthal effort so I would think that was an important development precipitating the further analysis, modeling and comparisons. 

On 9/29/2019 at 7:42 PM, hiflier said:

 

I think you nailed the issue of keeping the testing in private hands and out of government's or maybe even academia's which could be assumed in some cases to also be government? I have also considered the quiet landscape of whatever progress has been made to data and so assume there are non-disclosure agreements in place to protect rights for future documentaries and papers on the subject. I did look back at the Indiegogo fundraiser site and saw that the initial goal was $7,500 and that donations by 52 individuals was closed at $4,728. And for some reason I think it was mentioned by someone that Wally Hersom stopped supporting the Olympic Project. Whether that's true or not I don't know. I just went to the Olympic Project's website and got this notice:

 

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.   

 

 

Flat out weird message, but then again, I got a similar message at the BFF on Sunday about non-accessible website. 

[SWWASAS]

Maybe you are triggering Forum members to go to the websites like you are and the bunch of us are swamping their servers.    Sort of an unintentional denial of service attack?  

[ShadowBorn]

20 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

Maybe you are triggering Forum members to go to the websites like you are and the bunch of us are swamping their servers.    Sort of an unintentional denial of service attack?

It has to do with the amount of bandwidth that the web site is limited to. There web site has exceeded their limit. It would have been best if they have chosen unlimited bandwidth so that they would not have this problem. So yes to your answer it is an unintentional denial of service by what they have ordered off their website. 

[hiflier]

Interesting. Thanks.

[MIB]

On 9/30/2019 at 4:04 PM, ShadowBorn said:

What I should be asking is do we have this capability to perform this action on a computer. 

 

No, we don't, not fully and reliably.   There are something like 3 billion base pairs in play.   Many DNA segments can be in play in determining a single physical trait while some influence multiple traits but are not absolutely deterministic for any of them.    It's like playing cards with only a fuzzy view of the rule book.   This is why type specimens are important.   While we can't say, in an absolute and deterministic way, that "this combination, and only this combination, causes that", we can say "when trait X is present, this segment matches that segment" understanding that we may not be looking at all the other things that also have to be in place at the same time.

 

MIB

[hiflier]

Thanks, MIB, What you say make good sense. On the subject of the bear DNA and all of the bear scat found around the nests in the Olympic Project's nesting sight what does anyone think of this?:

 

[bipedalist]

I think he thinks its "just right".  (except for maybe that one limb slapping him in the face).

 

Hard to think refined blueberry twig snaps could occur with the bruins nest building but they are certainly dexterous and can tear up some trees for sure. 

[SWWASAS]

Anyone recognize the tree that the bear used?   He seems to be eating the leaves after making the nest.    At one point he rubbed the leaves on his chest.    I looks to me that it is some sort of medicinal process.    Lice or flea treatment?    

Edited October 2, 2019 by SWWASAS