Sierra Shooting from A-Z

[Guest General]

At times I get a little stressed by reading on this forum and another stuff that's about me. I always feel the need to at least try to be polite and respond where possible. At times it can be a little much. Ill read something along the lines of "there might not have even been snow on the ground when they claim to have gotten flesh sample" then I freaking bow up. "Are you freaking serious....!!!! really.... after all this people won't stop looking for holes and questioning everything or anything.... wow its never goin to stop "

Anyways it's a little much today. Im not taking offense or anything I got stuff in my personal life that's fueling the flame and this isn't helping. Im goin to do myself a favor and take advice from john and take a step back breath and take a short break from bff. Feel free to contact me Facebook or bff. And no this isn't an exit strategty. I just want to not feel like I need to check in here every few days to through water on the fire.

[Guest KentuckyApeman]

At times I get a little stressed by reading on this forum and another stuff that's about me. I always feel the need to at least try to be polite and respond where possible. At times it can be a little much. Ill read something along the lines of "there might not have even been snow on the ground when they claim to have gotten flesh sample" then I freaking bow up. "Are you freaking serious....!!!! really.... after all this people won't stop looking for holes and questioning everything or anything.... wow its never goin to stop "

Anyways it's a little much today. Im not taking offense or anything I got stuff in my personal life that's fueling the flame and this isn't helping. Im goin to do myself a favor and take advice from john and take a step back breath and take a short break from bff. Feel free to contact me Facebook or bff. And no this isn't an exit strategty. I just want to not feel like I need to check in here every few days to through water on the fire.

Yes, you get stressed. Some of us here are old timers. Welcome to the major leagues.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

Some of us here are old timers. Welcome to the major leagues.

Seems to me that old timers should have more manners and class. Speaking for myself, I don't want to be in the major leagues with people that exhibit such a contemptuous position regarding others.

[Guest]

Yes See-Te-Cah NC I agree 100%, this is painful and frustrating to even read.

[Guest MJ151]

Kentucky, beats me were the bodies are, probably somewhere near where they fell, if you actually think they have been shot. I am curious why you think I think there have been numeration previous BF's shot? My original post had nothing to do with previous shootings. I'm happy to know your relatives would never walk away from a "million" dollar BF body. Not sure how that pertains to the situation at hand and how the General reacted. What one person does is often different from what the next person in the identical situation would do. For example, do you know any deer hunters who have a head mount? Now, do you know any who don't? All I am getting at is not everyone reacts or does the same thing. There could be any number of reason they (previous supposed shooters) didn't bring a body in. Are you asking would I bring a body in if I shot on? Probably, but I can't and won't speak for anyone else or what they would do?

[Guest tpick]

I'm confused. Why would you quote my post, then say that you are not replying to me?

Nothing in your post applies to me.

My curiosity about what he left out of the story when the little one was dying still stands.

And that in no way is "crucifying" him.

If you think that it is, I would love an explanation.

Sorry, my mistake.

[Guest]

lol Myth or no myth it doesn't matter. The point is that they didn't walk away. They examined. I thought marine biologist's prefer this. I don't understand the anger at all to be truthful. Are you trying to say that science does not help anything? or at least should not try to help solve problems when it comes to bigfoot? That's what I get from your answers.

Anger? lol no, I'm not the one with "Furious" in my moniker.

Of course, examination and aquiring of knowledge is the foundation of pure science. I spend most of my days at NASA working alongside astronauts in the same pursuit so there is no anger I can assure you.

My personal hope and prayer is that as we move forward the science will remain pure and un-biased; and that the same mistakes that occurred in the DDT debacle don't repeat themselves in some form or fashion, that is part and parcel to scientific mandate as well. If Sasquatch is indeed the closest relative we as homo-sapiens have and are indeed a sentient species perhaps it's time we begin to think about inacting our own "Prime Directive" for lack of a better term. (Gotta hand it to Roddenberry..the man was ahead of his time)

[Guest]

Yes, you get stressed. Some of us here are old timers. Welcome to the major leagues.

You aren't the Major League so don't pretend to speak for them.

How do I know?

Because you wouldn't have a comment like that if you were.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Harry

[Guest]

I was PM'd by a member of this forum asking me why we are not standing up more for Justin. My answer is we are, and we have since the beginning. I'm probably not supposed to share a PM message, but I won't name who sent it. If that's a board violation, I'm sorry.

As I explained before, it took some real consideration on my part to decide if we were going to get involved with Justin. We are serious organization doing serious research. I knew from the get go that some would be very angry with us for even being involved. It was a very tough choice. The people in the Olympic Project are like family. I knew this could look very unfavorably on all of us, not to mention I felt terrible for the Bigfoots involved. I am avid hunter. As a mater of fact, I'd rather Deer hunt than look for Bigfoot, but I am also a very ethical hunter, and I use almost all of the Deer myself and my family harvest. I've taught clients and my children the right ethics of hunting. Rule # 1 in Hunting is identify your target before your finger even touches the trigger, as well as many other rules. That was my first concern when I started to communicate with Justin. And then as it unfolded, I had many other concerns obviously. Then it really sunk in, if indeed he was telling me the truth, there was nothing in the world I could do to change it. Being a Bigfoot researcher, what do I do now? I decided that some good could come from this. We have always wanted protection for this species long before I ever met Justin. If this flesh sample could help with species verification then it could certainly help move in that direction. Once I processed this the choice was a lot easier.

I can tell you in all certainty that Justin feels terrible about this, and is totally willing to give back and do what he can to help ensure that this doesn't happen again. He may very well become protections loudest voice and biggest supporter, IF PEOPLE GIVE HIM A CHANCE. You have to understand he found himself in an unreal situation to say the least. Bad choices were made and he admits that. He's not the greatest public speaker and neither am I, but I know where his hearts at. I've gotten to know him very well and I can assure you he's not some maniacal killer. In his mind he was in the company of monsters.

I'm in no way trying to say that all this is OK, because it's not. It's very sad and it shouldn't have happened. Most of us on this forum have a deep respect for these creatures and he knows this. It took a lot of courage for him to tell this account here, and for that I applaud him, loudly, and we will stand behind him 100%.

DR

[Guest Daskiii]

Thanx for answering the questions General. Although I have difficulties understanding the choices you made on the day of the shootings I have a lot of respect for the way you shared your story with us. Hope you don't take all the posts here too personal! Wish you all the best.

[TimB]

...I can tell you in all certainty that Justin feels terrible about this, and is totally willing to give back and do what he can to help ensure that this doesn't happen again. He may very well become protections loudest voice and biggest supporter, IF PEOPLE GIVE HIM A CHANCE. You have to understand he found himself in an unreal situation to say the least. Bad choices were made and he admits that. He's not the greatest public speaker and neither am I, but I know where his hearts at. I've gotten to know him very well and I can assure you he's not some maniacal killer. In his mind he was in the company of monsters...

DR

I'm really glad you posted this, Derek. This was the missing component to understanding the whole picture. Without it, all we had was Justin saying he shot them even though someone was telling him not to. Now we know he does feel bad. it helps a lot. Thank you!

Tim B.

[Guest vilnoori]

I'm a hunter too and I can certainly say it was a mistake to fire without identifying the target. However I can see how a mistake could be made because our perception of what is human does not include something huge covered in black fur, or small furry creatures coming at you. It was panic and no doubt ignorance of what a bigfoot or relict hominoid is, and probably many younger hunters out there in the field would make the same mistake. I am still also concerned that once the DNA studies go through with a verdict of human species (divergent, but still) General may still be prosecuted. Though all he has to say is it was in self defence to get out of it, I suppose, if his partner backs him up. Same situation as if you are in the Amazon and by chance meet up with poisonous-arrow bearing first-contact people groups. It is a very dangerous situation and many people in that situation have shot first and asked questions later. The fact that General realized what he had there, and contacted the right people, and that he is even here discussing it all is the real miracle. I do hope that in the end some good will come out of the whole ordeal and we will get a decent positive identification with sasquatches finally acknowledged as what they are.

Edited January 5, 2012 by vilnoori

[Guest Jodie]

I think I got to all the questions. But one post I thought needed its own response as I have never heard any of this before and it blows my mind.....

OK so somewhere in here or on another forum someone was saying on aprox Nov 10th let's say......... there was not approximately 2-3 ft of snow on the ground at just over 7000 ft near gold lake...... really really? Lets launch a full on investigation of this one. If we can prove there's not a couple of ft of snow on the ground by Nov 16th the day i claim to have sent the sample to Dr k then obviously the whole story's a lie. I can agree with that. Go searching. I would do it myself if I knew how. Spin your wheels run in a circle have at it

As for the general consensus. If somebody wants to say I made a bad choice and my morals were running on empty that day that is fine. No argument here. I didn't come here to defende myself. Just to set some things straight. I appeciate some of your kind words but I'm not even saying I made the right desision that day by any stretch of the imagination. Good day all

You need to get ready for this kind of thing, don't be surprised by the detailed questions people are going to ask you once the book comes out.

The reason I was asking about the mail and the weather is because it would affect how much and what condition the remains would be in. Depending on how wet or dry the sample was, would dictate how you package it. I had to go through hoops trying to find someone to mail my bone fragment because it was human remains. Only an anthropology department or a funeral home have a license to ship human remains, ashes are OK.

There are some special requirements for animal tissue and body fluids also, so I was wondering if the flesh was like jerky? Did FedEx or UPS give your wife a hard time about it? Just out of curiosity what did she write on the shipping slip when she declared the contents?

edited to say- No hurry , you can answer when you get back.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jodie

[Guest]

I was PM'd by a member of this forum asking me why we are not standing up more for Justin. My answer is we are, and we have since the beginning. I'm probably not supposed to share a PM message, but I won't name who sent it. If that's a board violation, I'm sorry.

As I explained before, it took some real consideration on my part to decide if we were going to get involved with Justin. We are serious organization doing serious research. I knew from the get go that some would be very angry with us for even being involved. It was a very tough choice. The people in the Olympic Project are like family. I knew this could look very unfavorably on all of us, not to mention I felt terrible for the Bigfoots involved. I am avid hunter. As a mater of fact, I'd rather Deer hunt than look for Bigfoot, but I am also a very ethical hunter, and I use almost all of the Deer myself and my family harvest. I've taught clients and my children the right ethics of hunting. Rule # 1 in Hunting is identify your target before your finger even touches the trigger, as well as many other rules. That was my first concern when I started to communicate with Justin. And then as it unfolded, I had many other concerns obviously. Then it really sunk in, if indeed he was telling me the truth, there was nothing in the world I could do to change it. Being a Bigfoot researcher, what do I do now? I decided that some good could come from this. We have always wanted protection for this species long before I ever met Justin. If this flesh sample could help with species verification then it could certainly help move in that direction. Once I processed this the choice was a lot easier.

I can tell you in all certainty that Justin feels terrible about this, and is totally willing to give back and do what he can to help ensure that this doesn't happen again. He may very well become protections loudest voice and biggest supporter, IF PEOPLE GIVE HIM A CHANCE. You have to understand he found himself in an unreal situation to say the least. Bad choices were made and he admits that. He's not the greatest public speaker and neither am I, but I know where his hearts at. I've gotten to know him very well and I can assure you he's not some maniacal killer. In his mind he was in the company of monsters.

I'm in no way trying to say that all this is OK, because it's not. It's very sad and it shouldn't have happened. Most of us on this forum have a deep respect for these creatures and he knows this. It took a lot of courage for him to tell this account here, and for that I applaud him, loudly, and we will stand behind him 100%.

DR

Thanks for that post DR.

Justin has said that he doesnt feel his choices were good and that he wishes to do something to rectify or heal this situation. For those who have witch hunted the people you call the witch hunters in this thread, can you at least now see that the ethical questions raised were raised because reflection on what has occured may lead to greater lessons and diminish the possibility of future events of this kind?

I have said in my posts that it may not matter so much about proving or not proving his story but that the ethical issues are looked into and something is healed by this. Mostly I weighed in on the thread because I saw there were people (not all) who seemed to not think there was a problem with killing an adult hominid and child and seemed to think there was nothing to reflect upon with concern to ethics. I believe that in such a situations as Justin's the only thing that can be done is learn lessons. You can only learn a lesson in this case by feeling the full ramifications and suffering involved in this situation. You can only feel the suffering by compassion and empathy, in which case you will feel very saddened by Justins story.

Across the world there are people who have learnt lessons the hard way, from having done something they spend their lives regretting. For this reason many people seek some type of way of seeing so that this never happens again. To do so they need to look at what has occured, they need to feel the suffering of that in compassion both for that which they have hurt and for themselves. At that point a person can see that their victim was no monster and nor are they - that in fact there are no monsters only fellow beings. From that point they never see a monster again in their sights. The lesson involves healing the way we see things.

I have been concerned more at the posts where people say its not important to look at the ethics of this. This tells me that such people dont see a lesson to be learnt . That concerns me greatly. If you dont learn from the suffering of anothers actions it is likely you then will do something similar down the line (especially if you believe that some people/beings are "monsters that need killing") and there will be more suffering for victim and perpetrator (who are really the same thing).

Discussing the sadness of an event and the lessons to be learnt is not a witch hunt but a means to healing. The next step is as ptangier said, find a way to save life now as a means of healing the life taken before.

PS

Further to this there should be some hunting methodoly lessons in this.Those of us who have served in the armed forces know that you dont have your finger on the trigger unless you are at action, instead you have the weapon at ready. Ready has you loaded, aimed, a (bullet in the chamber), saftey off, but the finger on the outside of the trigger housing,not on the trigger. This is a discipline designed so momentary fear, a jolt or other factors dont lead to the finger squeezing in and shot let off. These are just lessons that maybe should be taught when giving out gun licences or hunting permits - another learning experience from Justin's story.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Encounter

[Guest]

General is a big boy and personally I think he has handled himself quite well here on the forum. Part of being said Big Boy is understanding that harsh actions and mistakes MERIT harsh criticism. This is how we all learn from those events and learn to move forward as well, making the best of a situation. I hold no grudge against Justin, I have not spent one night on bended knee begging for the fleas of a thousand camels to infest his tent or any other such permutations of ill will. Having witnessed Sasquatch myself I see no reason that his story of killing two of them is outside the bounds of reason. Someone was going to do it eventually; and if his story fails to pan out for some reason or another; at some point another person is going to have to make the same decision. It is also not outside the realm of possibility that they may be or will be a visitor to this forum prior to that days arrival.

In ancient Rome, the Forum members would expound for months on a single point of Roman Law, cutting it to the quick, getting down to the nitty gritty and exhausting all possible avenues, motivating factors and points of contention; many times exhausting themselves, destroying careers and entering harms way in the process. We are a pale shade of grey in comparison so I sincerely hope none have taken things too personally, a little personally is fine, but believe me I am not under the delusion that any words of mine are going to reduce someone else's psyche to a quivering, sniveling mass of jello; nor will anyone else's for that matter.

Typically within the forum we engage information and accounts given with the intent of rooting out the hoaxer, exposing the lie. That premise has held true 99.9% of the time. For the time being the jury for some may still be out with regard to the actuality of Justin and Drivers incident, the alleged DNA results etc. Either way, regardless of the outcome of this particular case, for anyone who scours these forums in future that it is a clinic in consequences and backlash, and that even when under ideal circumstances the moment presents itself for collecting a specimen that dedicated caution is wise, proper reasoning is required and clear intent to properly follow through with regard to procurement of the specimen is paramount.

I admit, Justin did not have the benefit of this forum at the moment of alleged truth. Maybe the next person, if that is to happen just might. So, pro or con, defender or accuser you have all played a part in laying that foundation. If Justin is truly contrite about not coming home with a specimen in total than I would surmise he has no problem with this process or the outcome. Justin must understand that as forum members, witnesses and believers we have been burned 100% of the time up until this very hour. If my zeal has offended anyone's sensibilities you have my humblest apologies on a personal level. Theoretically, ethically and practically? Well we will work that out as the need arises from time to time.

Respectfully

Tau