southernyahoo Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I'm sure hair is a fine source of DNA, but that wasn't really my point. I was more concerned with the implications around the origin of the flesh sample if Dr Ketchum's analysis came back simply as modern Homo Sapien, ie a human corpse. I should make clear that I'm not trying to cast aspersions on the individuals concerned in any shape or form, and I am certainly not accusing anyone of obtaining the sample by nefarious means. All through this debate I have cautioned against a moral/emotional argument. I imagine that Derek and the General have received very specific information from Dr Ketchum that makes clear that Bigfoot, though sharing much of our DNA, is crucially different from us in some very important respects. Otherwise, all they would have was a big chunk of meat that a scientist had said came from a human - and I doubt they would be so keen to promote this all over a public forum. However, I totally understand that Derek and the General are not at liberty to discuss these kinds of details. A couple of nudges and a few winks would be gratefully received though Sounds like keen logic to me Strick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Strick.....word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Prag, I'm sorry about my shortness with you as well. In past conversations with you I honestly feel like I'm talking to a wall. I don't mean you any dis-respect, but it's really frustrating. I'm not here to argue and debate. We're here to answer what questions we can without violating our agreement. If you think I haven't had a hard time processing this your wrong. This has kept me up nights. Many nights. When I first started to accept this story-event for what it is it broke my heart. It hit me very hard. My inner emotions are my business and not something I care to discuss on this or any other forum. Your line of questioning borders on antagonistic. Maybe you don't mean to come off like that but IMO you do. You have a way of finding fault in the way so many researchers do things, and quite frankly it gets old. I can tell you are an intelligent person, but going back and forth with you makes me uncomfortable. Not because I'm guilty of anything but because there are no answers you'll accept. You just ask the question in different words. You see something in your head and nothing anyone says will change that. Makes a guy not want to talk to you. You see I'm not the Generals Judge, jury or executioner. I'm a guy that decided to work with him, and I'm his friend. It's not my job to decide if what he did was right or wrong. What's done is done, and all the talk and reflection won't change that. My deep feelings on this are my business and mine alone. I've never met you and I can't call you my bro, so why in Gods name would I bear my soul to you? We've been as open and forthright as possible here on this forum. The Olympic Project is not perfect. We make mistakes like everyone else, but we are trying very hard to put an end to this mystery. All of us LOVE this research. I am very fortunate to work with these people. DR Just now getting my first chance to sit down and read up. You know, there is a reason I ask certain questions Derek. They are not simply the same question simply asked a different way as may appear to you. If I ask something differently, its because there was likely some recognizable element previously omitted. Sometimes its because I am aware of certain elements that I don't share. Sometimes because something may not add up when looking at things objectively. Sometimes because it is even apparent that a particular avenue of inquiry may have been overlooked within. There is often something more substantive for my reasons of probing deeper and in another light Derek. I am also not alone in having these questions & concerns. All those questions I asked over the Skookum Cast, they too were for a reason. It allowed me to narrow down one major crucial omission within the years of analysis that took place. I will share that information as soon as I can make a particular trip to secure what will demonstrate this. Its not a major priority for me so I haven't dropped everything to get it done, but it will get done this Summer. Point is, all those seemingly redundant questions to you during that discussion were for a reason Derek, which enabled me to understand what key factor was missing. Something the proponents never did because objectivity sometimes got lost. While it may not seem as such, my probing questions aren't to scrutinize the OP either nor is there reason for you to bare your sole to me. I will say that some people hope you aren't being misled in this. Unfortunately my probing herein also causes friction with you because you do take things personally when the questions are actually asked objectively on my end. I'm not trying to delve into your soul here either Derek. I suppose there is a little misinterpretation going on as well as someone mentioned. I do understand that this shooting matter weighs heavily on you. Here's a question of objectivity for ya. If none of this larger shooting business existed, what would you think if someone told you that there were multiple large piles of bigfoot scat in the open, along a short stretch of logging road? I suspect your common sense and years of research would see red flags. How many such claims have been made by others? Does it add up based on their elusive nature? Since when do Sasquatch announce their presence like that by leaving such evidence on our roads? In addition, the large piles General described do not seem like they could have come from the 40 lb kids either. So that leaves the adult. Does it make sense that an adult mom BF would be teaching her young that kind of conspicuous behavior? Not very good survival lessons, and not seeming to be normal bf behavior to leave their calling cards in the open like that. Wouldn't you agree that they are more intelligent then to do something like that? The preceding paragraph should give you some idea of how I work through a concept. My wheels are turning Derek, you may just not know what I am thinking or working on. There are some other things that don't seem to fit. My apologies if you don't agree. Maybe some things are accurate and some aren't in the story? Maybe the flesh sample is real but other elements are not accurate? I dunno? I'm also not raising things as any kind of jab at the OP either. There are deeper questions that should normally be asked from an objective standpoint (outside the NDA of course) and much of what you have responded to is appreciated. Finally, I too make mistakes and will admit to such when necessary. Maybe some day we'll even sit down and have a beer... Dave Thanks Driftinmark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted August 13, 2011 Admin Share Posted August 13, 2011 So PT, I take it you don't believe the General's story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HairyGreek Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Here's a question of objectivity for ya. If none of this larger shooting business existed, what would you think if someone told you that there were multiple large piles of bigfoot scat in the open, along a short stretch of logging road? I suspect your common sense and years of research would see red flags. How many such claims have been made by others? Does it add up based on their elusive nature? Since when do Sasquatch announce their presence like that by leaving such evidence on our roads? In addition, the large piles General described do not seem like they could have come from the 40 lb kids either. So that leaves the adult. Does it make sense that an adult mom BF would be teaching her young that kind of conspicuous behavior? Not very good survival lessons, and not seeming to be normal bf behavior to leave their calling cards in the open like that. Wouldn't you agree that they are more intelligent then to do something like that? Hi Prag. Not sure if you are talking anymore about the General's story here as a logging road was never mentioned. He even stated that the scat piles were off the road and that the road in question is anything but. It sounds to me like more of a trail. I am not even sure they were in a conventional vehicle when the incident occurred. You have no idea where the site is, so how can you even use the term "conspicuous"? Everyone on here who believes that these animals are flesh and blood has been stating (and some hoping) that these creatures will eventually drop the ball and be caught in plain site. I am sure the majority were hoping it would have been through the view-finder of a camera than a rifles scope, but from what we have heard, that wasn't the case this time. I also was curious how a pick-up truck driving through the woods on a dirt road sneaks up on a Bigfoot. I then realized I had a very clear picture of events built in my head that had nothing to do with actual facts or testimony. I always enjoy your posts, agree or disagree, and all of this is JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I just finished reading the account on the OP web site.... That might come as recommended reading for all and maybe we can all accept that as the only version of this "story" for now, until other information is presented, as I'm very confident will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Cervelo, let's just say there are elements that concern me. HairyGreek, it was an assumption re the road based on just about every road up in the mountains of the west were at one time some form of logging road. A few were for mining of course but even they often turned into or began as logging roads. Edited August 13, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HairyGreek Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 HairyGreek, it was an assumption re the road based on just about every road up in the mountains of the west were at one time some form of logging road. Perhaps you may want to refocus your questions to leave out your assumptions. I hope that doesn't sound rude as I don't mean it that way in the least. Maybe you could ask better questions about said road and vehicle. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cervelo Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 PT, We are on the same page my friend! But the fourm seems to have forgotten or some members haven't seen the extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! If someone puts it in writing it must be true or you and I have to prove it can't be true! Now that's a big pile of something to analyze! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) PT, We are on the same page my friend! But the fourm seems to have forgotten or some members haven't seen the extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! If someone puts it in writing it must be true or you and I have to prove it can't be true! Now that's a big pile of something to analyze! I think you're confusing support for Derek and General as acceptance of their claims. I can't speak for others, but I'm skeptical of any claims concerning the killing of BF. It has nothing to do with Derek and General. It has everything to do with false claims made by others in the past. Having said that, I can't approach this situation with my own bias tainting any assumptions on my part. No offense, but you and PT seem to be ignoring the statement that proof will come in time. This shooting is tied to the Ketchum report which we've been given an estimated deadline of November for release/publication. Until then, you appear to be chasing your tails. Why not wait until then and judge for yourself whether the proof is extraordinary or not? The kind of questions you want answers to seem more appropriate with evidence in hand. The evidence won't be available for months. Derek and General have no control over the timeline. It is what it is. Edited August 13, 2011 by rwridley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiefoot Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 We all have our questions. Some have doubts, some have suspicions. All the general has to back up his wild a$$ed claims is a chunk of Bigfoot. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 We all have our questions. Some have doubts, some have suspicions. All the general has to back up his wild a$$ed claims is a chunk of Bigfoot. Or not. And we've been told that's coming when the Ketchum report is public. I guess I fail to see why patience is an unreasonable request by Derek and General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Prag, another great answer but you're still missing my point. I've done all the sleuthing on this story that I need to do. I can't prove it anymore in either direction. If I've been mislead it's my fault. I don't think the Generals going to come forward at this point with some huge revelation and say aw shucks, I was just funnin ya! If this whole story turned out to be crap guess what, there's still a flesh sample in the study, and like I said, I do know the results of that sample. I do believe the General. When all this is said and done, if I end up with egg on my face, I'll get a towel and wipe it off, regroup and start again. DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HairyGreek Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 And we've been told that's coming when the Ketchum report is public. I guess I fail to see why patience is an unreasonable request by Derek and General. Prag, another great answer but you're still missing my point. I've done all the sleuthing on this story that I need to do. I can't prove it anymore in either direction. If I've been mislead it's my fault. I don't think the Generals going to come forward at this point with some huge revelation and say aw shucks, I was just funnin ya! If this whole story turned out to be crap guess what, there's still a flesh sample in the study, and like I said, I do know the results of that sample. I do believe the General. When all this is said and done, if I end up with egg on my face, I'll get a towel and wipe it off, regroup and start again. DR It is days like this that I wish I could give two folks a +1 in the same 24 hour period. Well said by both of you. Love your post before the one above as well RW, as you speak for me in that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thepattywagon Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Most of my questions about this shooting incident were based on the original third party bastardized version from dubious sources. Since then, and after hearing General's story, I have put any questions as to why he shot the creatures on the back burner. I will accept him at his word, and leave it at that. However, I separate the actual shooting from peripheral aspects that accompanied it, and would be lying if I said that it all made sense to me. It does not, and so I, along with others have been trying to ask questions of General so as to make more sense of things. General has been very open to our questions for the most part, and I appreciate his willingness to share things with us. I just feel it's wrong to assume that because one might question certain details, that it means we don't believe the basic story as it has been told us; that General shot two Sasquatches, and collected some tissue evidence from one of them. Basically, I am just trying to say that as long as we are forced to wait for the big reveal, I don't think it's wrong to discuss the incident and particulars surrounding it. Isn't that what this place is all about, after all? Good post, Derek! Edited August 13, 2011 by Thepattywagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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