Poll: Which is the Best Candidate for Bigfoot?

[MIB]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:34 PM, Huntster said:

 

The potential of an unknown line of sub-Saharan Africans migrating into Asia over 100,000 years ago, as suggested by Sykes after his DNA work on Zana's progeny, is particularly interesting. Her physical description matches Patty from the PG film quite well.

 

I'd disagree.   Though no photos of Zana, photos of Khwit, her son, and a granddaughter exist.   Swiped from a web site ...

 

 

Do these truly look like Patty to you?   Or like her first generation descendant? 

 

MIB

 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, MIB said:

I'd disagree.   Though no photos of Zana, photos of Khwit, her son, and a granddaughter exist.   Swiped from a web site ...

 

 

Do these truly look like Patty to you?   Or like her first generation descendant?.........

 

No, they don't. But, as I write, the description of their mother does:

 

Quote

Abnauayu WILDMAN of West Asia. Etymology: Abkhaz (Northwest Caucasian), “forest man” or “shy boy.” Variant names: Bnahua (Abaza/Northwest Caucasian), Ochokochi (Mingrelian/Caucasian).

Physical description: Covered with reddish- black hair. Dark skin. Thick head-hair that hangs down the back like a mane. Low fore- head. Eyes with a reddish tinge. Flat nose. High cheekbones. Enormous teeth. Muscular arms and legs. Females have large breasts and but- tocks. Fingers long and thick. Splayed feet. Behavior: Skilled runner and swimmer. No speech but makes muttering noises. Sharp sense of hearing. Food includes grapes, hominy, and meat. Sleeps in a hole in the ground. Can ap- parently breed successfully with humans. Washes newborn infants in cold-water springs. Uses improvised weapons of sticks and stones. Habitually plays with stones, grinding and smashing them. Distribution: Caucasus Mountains, Abkhazia Autonomous Republic, Georgia. Significant sighting: A female Abnauayu, nick- named “Zana,” was captured in the mid-nine- teenth century, possibly in Ajaria, Georgia. The nobleman Edgi Genaba took her to his farm near Tkhina in Abkhazia, where she lived until her death in the 1880s or 1890s. At first, she was kept shackled in a strong enclosure; later, as she became tame, Zana was let loose to wander about. She was trained to do simple tasks such as grinding grain and fetching firewood. Zana was survived by two sons and two daughters fa- thered by local human males; these offspring grew up and became relatively normal citizens. Two of Zana’s grandchildren were interviewed by Boris Porshnev in 1964. (One of them, Sha- likula, was said to have been able to pick up a chair, along with a man sitting on it, with his teeth.) Zana’s grave has not been found, but the skeleton of her son Khwit has been exhumed; the skull combines “modern and ancient fea- tures,” according to a 1987 Russian study. Grover Krantz had an opportunity to examine Khwit’s skull, and he says it is a modern Homo sapiens, though with slightly stronger jaws and flaring cheekbones. Possible explanations: (1) Neanderthal (Homo neanderthalensis) sites are known at Sakhazia and Dzhruchula in Georgia. The large teeth and low forehead are characteristic of these West Asian and European hominids. (2) Zana’s ability to breed successfully with modern humans is intriguing, to say the least, and makes it more likely that she rep- resents an anatomically modern human with some archaic retentions, particularly with re- gard to lifestyle and material culture. Sources: Boris F. Porshnev, “Bor’ba za Trogloditov,” Prostor (Alma-Ata), 1968, no. 6, pp. 113–116; Bernard Heuvelmans and Boris F. Porshnev, L’homme de Néanderthal est toujours vivant (Paris: Plon, 1974), pp. 171–177; John Colarusso, “Ethnographic Information on a Wild Man of the Caucasus,” in Marjorie Halpin and Michael M. Ames, eds., Manlike Monsters on Trial (Vancouver, Canada: University of British Columbia Press, 1980), pp. 255–264; Dmitri Bayanov, In the Footsteps of the Russian Snowman (Moscow: Crypto-Logos, 1996), pp. 46–52; Grover S. Krantz, Bigfoot Sasquatch Evidence (Blaine, Wash.: Hancock House, 1999), p. 210.

 

Zana is said to have been 6'6" tall.

 

Sykes was impressed with his dna study results on samples taken from Zana's granddaughter and great granddaughter. He also sampled numerous random local villagers to see if he got any similar or unusual markers from them, which he did not. 

 

And while Khwit's portrait looks unremarkable, perhaps a photo of his skull next to another local village's skull might lend a hint.........

 

Relic Hominid Inquiry book review of The Nature of the Beast:

 

.......Sykes’ verdict on Zana, an alleged almasty captured in the 1850s on the southern slopes of the Caucasus Mountains, is a nod to the labor of the Russian hominologists during four decades of the Snowman Commission at Moscow’s Darwin Museum. The mainstream media has completely misinterpreted what Sykes’ book has to say about this, and talk of Zana being an “escaped African slave” demeans what appear to be the genetic realities behind the case. You must read Sykes’ Chapter 29, to fully appreciate what he has discovered. “Part-human, part-ape with dark skin (Zana means ‘black’ in Abkhaz) she was covered with long, reddish-brown hair which formed a mane down her back. She was large, about 6’6” tall, and extremely muscular with exaggerated, hairless buttocks and large breasts. Her face was wide with high cheekbones and a broad nose,” notes Sykes (page 296). Zana was no slave from Africa, but an individual with genetics that tell us much more about the population from which she sprang. As Bryan Sykes hints, “Zana’s ancestors could have left Africa before the Laran exodus of 100,000 year ago” and “they might well be still there [in the Caucasus Mountains] to this day, living as they have for millennia somewhere in the wild valleys that radiate from the eternal snows of Elbrus,”..........

Edited May 25, 2020 by Huntster

[hiflier]

I need to say this, risky as it may be: I can easily see Kwit's head, and particularly his facial features, on Patty though not as full. An even better match might be to add some length between his nose and upper lip, but the resemblance otherwise is kind of remarkable. An ability to rotate Kwit in 3D would be helpful for comparison. His ears are also very low in relation to his eyes. They're certainly way lower than mine. Tops of mine are nearly even with the top arches of my eyebrows.So are the granddaughter's. How tall was Kwit?

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

......... How tall was Kwit?

 

Dunno, but there was a lot of reference to his incredible strength, viciousness, and willingness to fight. 

 

That entire chapter of Sykes book clearly shows that he was impressed. His thought of an unknown line of Africans leaving the Dark Continent over 100,000 years ago, migrating east, and sparsely populating wild areas where the competition with us was lower makes all the sense in the world. That would have given small populations of them at least two or three Beringia openings to migrate to the New World in small numbers.

[guyzonthropus]

I'm still going with the Montane Lemur hybrid......lol

Theres little reason to presume we have anything near a complete catalog of our ancestry or those linked to it. The fossil record has just too many holes, and represents just a fraction of the species that have gone before(along with) us to rationally state "these are all that ever were"

New species are being found in the fossil beds and will continue to be. 

I'm inclined to go with a proto-human that arrived on this continent long before humans ever did, perhaps evolving the grander size along with the megafauna that existed here until but a few thousand years ago. Who is to say that with that certain primate mental edge they managed to survive the shifts and incursions that wiped out most of the rest or not?  While evolution often does proceed at a very gradual rates there are times where it progresses surprisingly fast, as well as bottle neck situations. And in most species, it's an ongoing process regardless of the rate.

Edited May 30, 2020 by guyzonthropus

[Airdale]

 

As part of my volunteer work for the Montana Military Museum over the last decade, I spend a lot of time looking at and restoring historical photographs, some dating back to the 1880's. In April I began experimenting with a colorization program called DeOldify licensed by MyHeritage. It can bring the subject of an old photo to life, in a manner of speaking. I've used it on a number of the museum's photos of Montana infantry units taken from the 1890's through the 1930's. We know the actual colors of uniforms, pennants and flags, etc., shown in the photos and the program does a remarkable job of rendering them accurately. I was primarily interested in the photo of Khwit as it is the best preserved as well as generationally closest to Zana. My goal was to adjust exposure to try and give more depth to the face, allowing a possibly more accurate assessment of the underlying bone structure (I also found it interesting that the hair was rendered in the auburn shade fitting the "long, reddish-brown hair" described in "The Nature of the Beast"  quoted above). Based on the neutral background I suspect the photo was exposed with artificial light, i.e. flash powder in that era, which would explain the high contrast exhibited. Khwit's nose appears wide considering the otherwise long, narrow face, and while the original photo suggests a high forehead, reflection of light to the camera lens is similar from the bridge of the nose and the forehead above the brow which indicates a similar sloping plane to both surfaces. As hiflier pointed out, the ears definitely seem low and it's easy to see that if that thick hair was allowed to grow out it could cover them entirely which fits with the many sasquatch witness descriptions that ears were not seen. If I saw that photo with no knowledge of the provenance it would appear to be or a fairly well proportioned, rangy human male. If his body was proportioned with the skull pictured above however, he must have been extraordinarilly tall and powerfully built. 

 

The heading over the photos doesn't provide the identity of the "leading genetecist" who suggests Zana may have been a yeti, but all of the purported yeti tracks I'm aware of show an ape like foot rather than human like. While I understand the genetic basis for the current primate designations (and ignoring the persistent suspicion that some scientists delight in obfuscation), the lexicon of Ivan Sanderson's day dividing the branches as Hominid or Pongid strikes me as much more descriptive from the standpoint of physical characteristics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hiflier]

Nice work, Airdale, and good observations. Thanks.

[starchunk]

On 5/30/2020 at 3:20 PM, guyzonthropus said:

I'm still going with the Montane Lemur hybrid......lol

Theres little reason to presume we have anything near a complete catalog of our ancestry or those linked to it. The fossil record has just too many holes, and represents just a fraction of the species that have gone before(along with) us to rationally state "these are all that ever were"

New species are being found in the fossil beds and will continue to be. 

I'm inclined to go with a proto-human that arrived on this continent long before humans ever did, perhaps evolving the grander size along with the megafauna that existed here until but a few thousand years ago. Who is to say that with that certain primate mental edge they managed to survive the shifts and incursions that wiped out most of the rest or not?  While evolution often does proceed at a very gradual rates there are times where it progresses surprisingly fast, as well as bottle neck situations. And in most species, it's an ongoing process regardless of the rate.

 

I seriously hope you're joking.

[jayjeti]

Dr. Sykes report on Zana is skewed by those reporting on his findings, rendering their spin on his data.  Dr. Sykes has stated he believes Zana was an Almasty and he relayed descriptions of her as passed down by villagers to bolster that point, like hair covered, 6'6". could out run a horse and swim raging rivers after an ice thaw.  The West African DNA he found, according to him, was similar to what existed 100,000 years ago and was not thought to have existed into modern times.  Moreover, Sykes can only look at mtDNA passed down to grandchildren and only looked at so much.  

[guyzonthropus]

Starchunk.....about the lemur, yes....the rest, not so much...

[OldMort]

Have to go with "forest people."

 

Bob Gimlin sez that's what they are. He saw one.

 

Gimlin is "salt of the earth."

 

[norseman]

53 minutes ago, OldMort said:

Have to go with "forest people."

 

Bob Gimlin sez that's what they are. He saw one.

 

Gimlin is "salt of the earth."

 

Having met him and having talked about Mules, Horses, training, packing? And he had a bum wing at 80 years old (when I met him) because of training a mule? 
 

I would absolutely concur Bob is salt of the earth. They have long since broken the mold.

 

But of course that doesn’t necessarily mean he is telling the truth about Bigfoot or anything else. John Wayne wasn’t perfect either.

 

Thats why we need a body. And that’s my only critique of Bob. If the events at Bluff creek were true? Bob was in a rare position to end the mystery forever.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

I thought forest people were feral humans. There are some near where I live. 

Otherwise I would think they would be hominids.

Anyway since there was no none of the above I voted for gigantopethicus.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

21 minutes ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

I thought forest people were feral humans. There are some near where I live. 

Otherwise I would think they would be hominids.

Anyway since there was no none of the above I voted for gigantopethicus.

Actual feral humans?

[Patterson-Gimlin]

By definition no. Lifestyle yes.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Patterson-Gimlin