hiflier Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, MIB said: Lot of things don't add up to match our assumptions. There may be one correction to all of those assumptions which could account for all aspects of that difference: what if there are a lot fewer than we think but we see them more often because they're not as constantly sneaky as we imagine? What if the total population is smaller but they travel farther, faster, and are exposed more often than we imagine? This has been my thinking as well. A large population concept fails in so many ways beyond simply eradicating huge areas of vegetable matter. For a large population to exist in winter there should be ungulates and other types of carcass everywhere. And a deer yard here and there should be a killing field- it isn't. A small population, even if only half on the move, makes more sense.
norseman Posted March 3, 2021 Admin Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, MIB said: That's where we disagree. A sapient species seeking to avoid conflict with humans absolutely would pass up a cow or sheep except in times of great desperation. We ran 40-60 head on national forest year around. Since we never knew exactly how many we had we would have never noticed one missing unless we found the carcass. Right, but bigfoot is not bears or gorillas. Regarding humans, that is true today. I'm doing some reading. That doesn't appear to be true for hunter-gatherer humans, pre-agriculture, which would seem to be the correct case for comparison with bigfoot. .. but you are right, or at least seem to be, in one thing .. something IS off. Lot of things don't add up to match our assumptions. There may be one correction to all of those assumptions which could account for all aspects of that difference: what if there are a lot fewer than we think but we see them more often because they're not as constantly sneaky as we imagine? What if the total population is smaller but they travel farther, faster, and are exposed more often than we imagine? MIB I think that’s the only plausible explanation. But boy oh boy do Bigfooters not want to concede that point. Something that big even with the numbers of the lower 48 Grizzly Bear? That’s 1500 bears spread out in 4-5 states. Gets noticed. Bigfoot may be able to hide easier. But it cannot hide every footprint, scat pile, or carcass. I posted up my buddy Grassmans video in the video section. They found a deer skeleton impaled on a dead snag. Thought that was cool.
Wooly Booger Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 12 hours ago, norseman said: But Bears like Gorillas have elongated intestinal tracts. And Bears don’t come close to hitting a 50% annual diet of meat. Many Humans do not hit that mark either. Leaving out cultural meat eaters like say the Inuit. Most meat is consumed by richer nations. While many third world countries get very little in their diet. No disrespect, but roving families of 800 lbs hunters eating half their diet in meat? I don’t think that’s going to go unnoticed in the woods. And as Magnaesir has pointed out? You would be having lots of conflicts with ranchers. Because something with that much appetite for flesh isn’t going to pass up a juicy cow or sheep. It wouldn’t be like dealing with something like a Bear at all. It would be more like dealing with a Cougar or Wolf. And most importantly? Primates do not hibernate. So this thing is out actively hunting in winter. So we should be cutting Bigfoot tracks as often as Cougar tracks. But we don’t see that. They are rare by comparison. I don’t pretend to have all of the answers, but something is off. That makes sense. I would estimate Sasquatches probably consume upwards of 25% of their diet in meat. They have been observed hunting deer, elk, and even bear if I am not mistaken. They are also known to consume salmon, ground squirrels, and freshwater claims. But the bulk of their diet more than likely consists of plants, especially berries and roots. Sasquatches probably fill a similar ecological niche to grizzly bears.
Wooly Booger Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, hiflier said: This has been my thinking as well. A large population concept fails in so many ways beyond simply eradicating huge areas of vegetable matter. For a large population to exist in winter there should be ungulates and other types of carcass everywhere. And a deer yard here and there should be a killing field- it isn't. A small population, even if only half on the move, makes more sense. The BFRO estimates the total population of Sasquatches numbers no more than 2,000 individuals spread throughout North America. This makes sense, and would certainly explain the lack of conflict with ranchers and why evidence of predation in the woods is as scarce as it is. However, a century ago and earlier the population of the species was perhaps significantly higher, and conflict with ranchers more common. I recall a passage in John Green's Sasquatch the Apes Among Us in which an old lady describing her childhood in rural Montana during the early 1900s mentions how ranchers knew to keep their cattle at lower elevation during the Spring because they would be killed and eaten by the hairy giants who live in the mountains. Edited March 3, 2021 by Wooly Booger
SWWASAS Posted March 3, 2021 BFF Patron Posted March 3, 2021 I am inclined to believe that you are correct about their population. Reasoning being that the larger their population the more often they are likely to be seen. Based on the rate of travel that happened during my first encounter, they have to move at least twice as fast as we do, if not more than that. And this was not open country. The route was difficult for me to negotiate when I backtracked to check the ground for footprints. The one headed for me sounded like a two legged tank crashing through the woods. The two adults were whooping back and forth at each other as they moved. I have wondered if they were sort of competing like it was a race. Certainly there was no attempt to be quiet. Anyway with the capability to travel that fast, their daily radius of foreging or migration has to be quite large.
BlackRockBigfoot Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 There would have to be a level of intelligence involved... beyond the instincts of an undiscovered ape. The ability to recognize patterns of human behavior and to adapt/plan to actively work to stay hidden. Keeping their scat and most signs of their feeding hidden, planning their travel routes to mostly avoid human detection...and it all has to be species wide. One individual going off the reservation and trying to cross an interstate and getting hit or getting hungry and trying to take a cow in broad daylight...and they are discovered. It doesn't sound like an ape...it sounds like the traditional definition of a hominid...man or one of his ancestors. It sounds like the ability to pass along history and information in order to maintain a species-wide effort to conceal themselves. 1
hiflier Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: ...and it all has to be species wide. This is a very good point worthy of serious consideration........and an upvote But then most of the 30,000 Black Bears in Maine never get seen either. Oh yes, and that goes for the 70,000 or so Moose as well. A sighting needs a Human. And that Human needs to report it. Edited March 3, 2021 by hiflier 1
NorthWind Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 I would say that most of the sightings I am aware of locally where @Madison5716and I work, are never reported. I ask people wherever we go. Many just think I'm crazy, and I can live with that. But many also give me info. A friend's sighting, or Uncle Bob, or sometimes even themselves, have had a sighting. I have even spoken with LEO 's who know. People who live up there just know they exist, and it's no big deal. When I ask if they ever reported it, most just laugh and tell me no. As to what they eat, I think they eat anything they want. Be it tree cambium, sometimes the bark itself (we have seen a fair bit of debarked trees), roots, berries (even the whole plants of the berry bushes, which grow everywhere and you couldn't eradicate them if you tried), fish, worms, grubs, deer, squirrels, birds, etc. Everything. With an arm on them that can throw a stone with great accuracy, they don't need to be too concerned about not getting meat. It's everywhere. Calories schmalories. It's out there if you just go get it.
BlackRockBigfoot Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, NorthWind said: I would say that most of the sightings I am aware of locally where @Madison5716and I work, are never reported. I ask people wherever we go. Many just think I'm crazy, and I can live with that. But many also give me info. A friend's sighting, or Uncle Bob, or sometimes even themselves, have had a sighting. I have even spoken with LEO 's who know. People who live up there just know they exist, and it's no big deal. When I ask if they ever reported it, most just laugh and tell me no. As to what they eat, I think they eat anything they want. Be it tree cambium, sometimes the bark itself (we have seen a fair bit of debarked trees), roots, berries (even the whole plants of the berry bushes, which grow everywhere and you couldn't eradicate them if you tried), fish, worms, grubs, deer, squirrels, birds, etc. Everything. With an arm on them that can throw a stone with great accuracy, they don't need to be too concerned about not getting meat. It's everywhere. Calories schmalories. It's out there if you just go get it. I agree with you. Most sightings go unreported. It might be discussed with family or friends, but people are either afraid of the stigma or just don't care to report their sighting to strangers. It's the same way with belief in these creatures in the mountains around here. It's just taken as a matter of fact that these creatures exist. 1
SWWASAS Posted March 3, 2021 BFF Patron Posted March 3, 2021 The other factor has been touched on but fully explored. Yes they are sentient. Yes they go to great lengths to avoid leaving footprints. I have seen that with every footprint I have found. And yes they have observed humans for thousands of years and pretty much can understand our behavior enough to avoid us. If you put a special forces or Navy Seal in at area and told him to avoid humans, They would know to avoid roads, not leave footprints, avoid human trails, walking a ridge skyline, traveling much in daylight hours, and killing a families livestock etc.. BF has learned all of that stuff too. I noticed some rock stacks in one area near some human trails. When I investigated I discovered a trail system that pretty much paralleled the human trails in the area. The rock stacks seemingly marked their trails especially where they crossed the human trail system. Also the rocks provided enough relief, that they could be seen in very dim light like moon or starlight. The trails were fairly well used, not as much as the human trails, but I did not find so much as a single deer or elk track on other trail system Something without hooves was using the trails. The human trails are very popular and BF simply use their own to avoid humans. Most road and trail sightings are crossing sightings,. I do not recall anyone seeing a BF walking down a human trail. I have on the other hand been nose to nose with a bear using my human trail. 1
norseman Posted March 4, 2021 Admin Posted March 4, 2021 6 hours ago, NorthWind said: As to what they eat, I think they eat anything they want. Be it tree cambium, sometimes the bark itself (we have seen a fair bit of debarked trees), roots, berries (even the whole plants of the berry bushes, which grow everywhere and you couldn't eradicate them if you tried), fish, worms, grubs, deer, squirrels, birds, etc. Everything. With an arm on them that can throw a stone with great accuracy, they don't need to be too concerned about not getting meat. It's everywhere. Calories schmalories. It's out there if you just go get it. Except in winter. The great equalizer. Frozen earth plus 6-8 feet of snow at mid elevations in the west. Lakes frozen over. Many things have either gone into hibernation or flown south. And the snow. You can be the greatest Ninja stealth warrior in the world. The snow records your every step, every time you sit or lay down, every time you make a kill and blood splatters upon it. It records everything. The only safety net is nature’s great eraser which is another dump of snow. A Mountain Gorilla eats 40 lbs of vegetation daily living at high elevation. Now imagine a primate twice as big. That’s a lot of tree bark! Moose do it. But their winter areas look like a train wreck. We find thousands of tracks, scat, horn sheds. We see them! Does every Bigfoot from the interior make a bee line for the Pacific coast before the first snows? Ive seen ONE set of snow tracks in my 50 years on this planet. And I’ve spend my fair share of time in the woods in winter. And so has lots of other people in my neck of the woods. Either they are almost absent from the landscape? Or they are holed up somewhere? Without fire they cannot cure meat. So that leaves what? Dried berries and roots? Has anyone ever discovered a LARGE cache of food that didn’t look like it was intended for a human? I flatly reject that these things are actively hunting in winter like a cougar. Because we jump on snowmobiles and can go cut cat tracks. That’s how houndsmen hunt cougar. Then put their dogs on the track. Again I cannot go reliably cut Bigfoot tracks. This is the nut to crack. With modern snow bikes? There is NOWHERE they cannot go. Even a Bigfoot in deep snow is as a biped at a extreme disadvantage. It cannot hide it tracks in snow either. So either it caves up or it leaves. Intelligence can only take you so far. It’s not a SF soldier operating behind enemy lines. Well supplied, in comms with HQ, and focused on a mission, with a defined exit strategy. These things live out there full time. They breed, they give birth, they pack babies, they grow old, they die. They also break bones, get arthritis, catch colds, have sore throats, get into fist fights, fall in love, get bit by mosquitoes, black flies, ticks, chiggers, so forth and so on. No radio, no medic with a modern kit, no lifeline. As I said before? We are missing something. Bigfoot and Bear sign can be rather tough to define sometimes in summer. In winter? Should be pretty easy because Bears are asleep. So where is all the Bigfoot sign? If your finding let’s say 10 GOOD castable tracks in the summer. 10! You should easily be seeing 1000 times that many in winter. Think about how many GOOD deer tracks you see in summer. Compared to how many you see in winter? We are all friends here. I’m just thinking out loud. 🙂 3
ShadowBorn Posted March 4, 2021 Moderator Posted March 4, 2021 ^^ Cannot give no explanation for why we cannot find them in the winter. I can say that I have found tracks in the snow in my area of searching. They were large tracks and also small tracks. The small tracks were the ones that got my attention. Since they were the size of a small child and it was at night and they were bare footed. Now who would let their child run out in the backwoods in the middle of the woods. It had such a long stride that I could not even create the stride even if I tried to run. But this track went on for some length down the trail at the same stride. At the time I never had seen any deer in this area . When at a time there were allot of deer in this area. I be walking through the forest and be jumping deer every so often through out the forest. When I started finding these tree structures is when the deer population went down. It then decreased after I started to have my encounters in that area. I also started finding dead decomposing turkey kills that seem to be eaten as well as possoms. I would find these bones near large blown downed trees. The bones were not spread out but piled together. The other things that I would find would be these nuts. I think they are called hickory nuts. The shells would also be piled up in certain areas of the woods . Not like a deer or any other animal would or could carry all these nuts to that spot. But from where these nuts came from were not even in the area of where they were cracked and eaten. I felt like what ever was eating this stuff was a single animal. But then the news started to report of horses being attacked by animals. The horses belonged to the sheriff department. They reported as being coyote attack. But from what i was experiencing and from what encountered I felt differently. I was hunting and it was evening so I walked back to my truck. As I got to my truck I found a paper on my truck. The paper said that this farm on the corner of where i hunt was missing a horse. Well as I was walking back from my hunting spot I heard some thing large following me back parallel to me. The strange thing was that what ever it was , was making these horse sounds. So when I saw that paper on my windshield of my truck I called the number on the paper. I told them of what i heard and they seemed that they did not want to find if it was there horse. The other incident was that of a missing dog. I seen this dog earlier in the day with it's trainer. The dog had one of those beeping neck collar where the trainer can press the transmitter. Well we were out there bigfooting and we could hear the beeping of this dog collar the whole time we were out there. It started getting late so we walked back to the trail. so that we could walk back to our cars. When we seen the trainer and he asked us if we seen his dog. I told him that I had heard him beeping way back in the back woods.The people that were with me had left and i stayed behind to help this guy find his dog. We waked out in to those woods on the trail . The trainer kept pressing on the transmitter so that he could hear the beeper. we kept hearing the beeper but it kept fading away. But we kept following it until we were deep into the woods. He said that his dog was faithful and that the dog would always return. It was his bird dog so it was trained to fetched. He kept pressing the transmitter and beeper kept going off. Then all of sudden the beeper stopped and it no longer beeped. This was now 2:00 am and it was foggy and the dog was not barking nor beeping. We spent four hours looking for this dog. Not sure what happen to that dog but i am assuming that it was food to what ever was out there. I some times wonder why i have not been food for them. I sure felt like it one or two times when i was hunting in that area. There could have been many times where maybe the police would have fund my truck parked there but not me. In fact that has been my biggest fear of finding a decomposed human body out there. There has many times that i have smelt that dead smell out there where i just did not want to check it out. These things are freaky. 2
norseman Posted March 4, 2021 Admin Posted March 4, 2021 4 hours ago, NorthWind said: Or just avoid the snowline. Which is possible out on the coast. There is no “snow line” where I live.
SWWASAS Posted March 5, 2021 BFF Patron Posted March 5, 2021 5 hours ago, norseman said: Which is possible out on the coast. There is no “snow line” where I live. If they are in your area in any numbers in the summer that suggests they migrate out in the winter if are not seeing winter tracks. .The snow line here in Western WA is about 8 miles east of were I live. I live at 300ft and much of the winter the snow level is about 2500. There are several high ridges that connect the Western Cascades and the interior mountains like Adams. When you examine those East West ridges, there are defined and well used trails on them None of them are on a USGS Map. They are not old logging roads either. I have wondered if rather than trudge through all the tangle and down wood of the Columbia, Lewis River, and Toutle Drainage, if they get high on the ridges and migrate out of the interior in the fall. Right at the snow line is bearable in the Western Cascades in the winter and in the winter there are few humans in the woods, especially at or above the snow line. 1
Recommended Posts