Almas, Almasty, Kaptars

[Henry Stevens]

From the limits of Eastern Europe through Mongolia there are wild man creatures somewhat more human than the Yeti, bigfoot, Russian Snowman types.  In the western part of this range they are not much larger than 7 ft. and have black hair.  In Mongolia, in the East, they are smaller and slighter in build, having the hair color of camels.  The hair is apparently much shorter in the East also.  Between these two points the creatures seem to be intermediary in characteristics.  What are these things?

 

Dr. Bryan Sykes tested the skull of Khwit, the son of Zana, and concluded first that she was a Sub-Saharan African based on her mtDNA type  Dr. Sykes was the man on mtDNA in humans and wrote The Seven Daughters of Eve to explain the seven mtDNA types in humans.  Zana clearly had one type which was correlated with Africa.  The first thought was she was a slave or descended from slaves which escaped captivity and lived in the mountains.  But after taking a second look at Khwit's skull, Dr. Sykes changed is position, opening up the possibility of Zana being a descendant of an early Out of Africa migration over 100,000 years ago.

 

He was talking about the evidence found in what was then Palestine by Dr. Dorothy Garrod in 1939 at Skhul and nearby caves.  Most famous of these finds was Skhul 5.  It looked at first like a human-Neanderthal hybrid.  It had a deeply depressed nasal root giving it what was called an Australoid appearance.  Skhul 4 was also Neanderthal looking but in a completely different way.  It had a Neanderthal-ish profile from a little distance with brow ridges, long, low head and projecting mid-face.  But people kept looking at these skulls and little by little the idea of any Neanderthal inheritance was discarded.  They just did not have and extreme or diagnostic Neanderthal features.  They were early Homo sapiens but they were dated at 110,000-120,000 years ago, a warm period.  About 90,000 years a cold snap returned and so did Neanderthals.  One was found in the nearby cave of Tabun and dated at 90,000 years ago.  

 

So what happened to the sapiens people?  Sykes is obviously saying Zana was one.  Did the Neanderthals drive the early Homo sapiens "up into the hills" where they lost most of their culture, grew hair and became Almas?

 

On the other hand, in Mongolia, an alleged Almas skull was found and posted by Gigantor in a sticky on these creatures.  But it looks nothing like Khwit.  Khwit's skull is large, broad, huge, round eye sockets, moderate brow ridges, extensive scaring in the temporal region from muscular activity, moderately projecting nasal area and projecting nasal aperture, not as much as Neanderthals but in the European condition.  It looks similar to Skhul 5 minus the depressed nasal root.  The skull from Mongolia (lacking jaw and teeth) is much more delicate looking.  In fact it looks completely modern with its rounded profile and vertical forehead.  The only areas which look even a little funny are the proportionately large, round eye sockets, the wide nasal aperture and the complete lack of build up on the sides of the nose as in Khwit.

 

So are West and East two completely different creatures?  One is obviously Homo sapiens gone wild.  So what is the other?  It does look sapiens but does it have completely different origin?  Is it descended from Homo erectus?

 

What is going on here?

[Arvedis]

On 3/7/2021 at 1:09 PM, Henry Stevens said:

Khwit's skull is large, broad, huge, round eye sockets, moderate brow ridges, extensive scaring in the temporal region from muscular activity, moderately projecting nasal area and projecting nasal aperture, not as much as Neanderthals but in the European condition.

 

So are West and East two completely different creatures?

 

What is going on here?

 

Personally, I think BF and all of it's derivatives share common ancestry but are so varied and mutated, we may never get a clear answer on all of the lineages.

 

Zana has been hotly debated with multiple threads, no need to be rehashed here. 

 

I am now curious about the large skull Igor Burtsev apparently has in his possession which fits the skull description of Khwit.  Looks like Burstev originally discovered the skull. Maybe that was his big scientific moment?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Arvedis

[Henry Stevens]

As far as I know he did discover it.  He looked and looked in the cemetery for both skulls.  He found a smaller skull which may be Zana's but nobody seems to want to put a seal of approval on it.  It has a dished out mid face and does manage to look African.

 

I am still interested the differences between the East and West here.  

 

This is Gigantor's sticky regarding Almas.  Scroll down to the skull.  Notice the forehead is vertical which would certainly indicate Homo sapiens.  But the orbits are huge.  The most interesting point is the nasal opening.  You see it both from the front and side.  In proportion to the rest of the skull this opening is large.  But notice the side view.  The nasal bones to not protrude in any way.  There is no build-up of bone around the nose or at the gutter.  If this nose were to be reconstructed the angle of the nasal bones would be used where they meet the bottom level of the opening.  In this case, this person's nose is simian, absolutely flat.  The nostrils would have faced forward like a chimp, not a hooded nose as found in everyone else.

 

.  

 

Compare this to an alleged half-Almas, Khwit.

 

Kivit and his skull.(Son of Zana the Almas) : Project_BigFoot (reddit.com)

 

Notice the projecting nasal bones and the build up along the sides of the nasal opening.  It looks completely human in his nose.  The forehead is more retreating, the skull is much more rugged and thicker looking.

 

So the two are nothing alike.  Yet they are both on an West - East continium.

 

What is going on here?  Are they two species?  Explain how they could be one.

[Arvedis]

6 hours ago, Henry Stevens said:

Compare this to an alleged half-Almas, Khwit.

 

Kivit and his skull.(Son of Zana the Almas) : Project_BigFoot (reddit.com)

 

I did not read the reddit thread but Khwit was never assigned hybrid DNA.  Sykes has him as fully human and so he's not a good representative of an eastern version of the creature.  

 

The alleged almas skull has never been tested for DNA because it was destroyed and lost. There are no reliable almas samples to determine unique differences except from the visual and physical record such as foot and hand casts.  Let's forget about the monk finger and yak scalp or whatever. There's zero Yeti DNA or any significant eastern evidence to work with.

 

On 4/9/2020 at 12:40 AM, gigantor said:

[The skull was studied by Wenzcislav Plawinskiy in Poland. Afterward sent back to Rinchen through the Soviet Union. It was underway some five years, and finally reached Mongolia fully destroyed into small pieces. In fact, it was altogether lost. – I. Burtsev]

Michael Trachtengerts [RIP]
January 2007

 

 

 

 

On 4/9/2020 at 7:38 PM, Huntster said:

No DNA tests?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Arvedis

[Henry Stevens]

What about a bone discussion?  Two skulls allegedly belonging to a bigfoot relative, human or otherwise, being part of a broad geographic distribution of this creature yet totally dissimilar.  That is not worthy of discussion?