The other side of the coin

[Grandcherokee]

12 hours ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Perhaps you remember a poster that placed great store in reading numerous reports.

DWA believed the more reports the more it proved bigfoot existence.

He's gone now, banished for his pig-headedness.

Quality of reports is paramount.

I could not agree more! That is a hill.. 'worth dying on'!

[Grandcherokee]

5 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

Let me understand your position.  If a dozen reports, with uncorroborated evidence, come from one narrowly-defined area where the people saw a sasquatch crossing a jeep trail, that information would be useless to you?

There was a case back around 2007, investigated by Thomas Steenburg and Bill Miller. They interviewed a person who claimed that a Sasquatch crossed in front of his truck late Sunday night on a mountain road. Interesting...but anecdotal!

Three days later another report came in..but this sighting happened Saturday night..the 'night before the original siting, on the same mountain road. Exactly the same description of the creature by both witnesses! Neither witness was aware of the other's encounter! Because the first witness did not want anyone to know. So he did not tell anyone about his encounter!

The first sighting was not significant on its own merit.

But the fact that there was a second witness driving the same road who saw the creature the night before makes it singular! This person went home on Saturday night and told his family about his encounter. And so the first reported sighting was corroborated by the second report, which happened earlier that weekend.

I checked out the reports a few days later. The mountain road is a very steep assent going to the top of the mountain. Only four wheel drives with a good low gear would make that trip. So there is little chance that someone in a suit spent his nights waiting for a stray truck to come by.

Upshot! It is all still anecdotal. And it is proof of nothing!

But it makes for a great head scratcher

Beyond that, with no physical evidence to support the claims. It is still just a story. A great story..but just that!

[Grandcherokee]

By the way! I 'never' said that anecdotal evidence was useless!

I said that they were 'next to' useless!:)

You may be able to use them to form patterns!

But your 'patterns' are as only good as your witnesses!...and your skepticism!

Otherwise, it could be the beginning of a 'house of cards' ;).

Edited July 10, 2021 by Grandcherokee

[wiiawiwb]

Forming patterns is useful to me--perhaps not to you. I don't know if you've ever been out in the field or you get out often.  I'm constantly looking to establish patterns that are useful in narrowing down the major questions of....where, when, and why a particular area is producing results, or what area is most likely to produce results in the upcoming weeks or months. 

 

Maybe you choose to use reports as your method of selecting an area. I don't. They have a role initially when selecting a general region but a specific area is chosen by me based on its particular terrain features. A lot of gumshoeing ensues thereafter.

 

In the end, the ultimate proof will almost certainly come from someone spending lots of time in the woods doing his or her homework and hardwork.  A little inspiration meets lots of perspiration.

Edited July 10, 2021 by wiiawiwb

[Huntster]

7 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

.......If a dozen reports, with uncorroborated evidence, come from one narrowly-defined area where the people saw a sasquatch crossing a jeep trail, that information would be useless to you?

 

While this question wasn't addressed to me, it's important to me to address it. I would consider such a string of reports as very strong even if not accompanied by castable footprints, pics, hair samples, etc. The reports outline an excellent area, season, and tine to hang out in to possibly enjoy a sighting.

[BlackRockBigfoot]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

Forming patterns is useful to me--perhaps not to you. I don't know if you've ever been out in the field or you get out often.  I'm constantly looking to establish patterns that are useful in narrowing down the major questions of....where, when, and why a particular area is producing results, or what area is most likely to produce results in the upcoming weeks or months. 

 

Maybe you choose to use reports as your method of selecting an area. I don't. They have a role initially when selecting a general region but a specific area is chosen by me based on its particular terrain features. A lot of gumshoeing ensues thereafter.

 

In the end, the ultimate proof will almost certainly come from someone spending lots of time in the woods doing his or her homework and hardwork.  A little inspiration meets lots of perspiration.

Well said.

[vinchyfoot]

42 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Well said.

Exactly my method, narrow it down and focus on that and what YOU know. I started out six years ago in a given active area learning the water sources and how the connect with the surrounding terrain, cover, etc.

 

[ShadowBorn]

1 hour ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Forming patterns is useful to me--perhaps not to you. I don't know if you've ever been out in the field or you get out often.  I'm constantly looking to establish patterns that are useful in narrowing down the major questions of....where, when, and why a particular area is producing results, or what area is most likely to produce results in the upcoming weeks or months. 

Finding patterns in the movements of deer. Do this with bucks and does. By tacking their scrapes and tree rubs and marking them down on a map with my GPS. This way i can set up with my tree stand or ground blind. There was some one who I talked to before with did this with tree formations. Just cannot remember if there was a pattern to them.

 

But there is one pattern to these creatures that does seem to stand out. That's their issue with curiosity.   

[Grandcherokee]

5 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

Forming patterns is useful to me--perhaps not to you. I don't know if you've ever been out in the field or you get out often.  I'm constantly looking to establish patterns that are useful in narrowing down the major questions of....where, when, and why a particular area is producing results, or what area is most likely to produce results in the upcoming weeks or months. 

 

Maybe you choose to use reports as your method of selecting an area. I don't. They have a role initially when selecting a general region but a specific area is chosen by me based on its particular terrain features. A lot of gumshoeing ensues thereafter.

 

In the end, the ultimate proof will almost certainly come from someone spending lots of time in the woods doing his or her homework and hardwork.  A little inspiration meets lots of perspiration.

I said nothing about patterns being of no use to me!

How often I get out in the field is only of importance to me.

 It is immaterial to me, how often you or anyone else get out in the field! Whether it is once a month, or five times a day. It does not tell me if you are any good at what you do! Only what a person does when they get there can do that!  For to know such thing would prove nothing to me! No more than saying,  that there are thousands of reports out there! So what? Someone goes out into the field 8 times a month. So what?

This conversation has gone a long way from discussing the fact that anecdotal evidence is weaker form of evidence. And it does not seem to be in any hurry to go back there! But that is fair enough! On to the next topic!

[MIB]

On 7/9/2021 at 6:27 PM, Grandcherokee said:

Anecdotal reports are next to useless, without corroborating evidence!

 

I wouldn't state that as a universal truth ... I don't find this to be true.   Quite the opposite: as a researcher, I start with what amounts to an anecdote (report) and do the research to find the evidence.  Expecting that to be provided for me is putting the cart in front of the horse.  

 

MIB 

[Grandcherokee]

I am sorry! I should have qualified my statement! Anecdotal reports are rather useless as to providing proof of the existence of Sasquatch on their own!

That such reports could be used for a possible 'jump off' spot to gather possible 'evidence remnants' is a given!

I do not think that it is' putting the cart before the horse'. to get evidence along with the report. I think that such would be a great stroke of luck! A good work ethic is a wonderful thing, but if evidence drops into my lap..I'll take it!;)

[wiiawiwb]

"The harder I work, the luckier I get."  Samuel Goldwyn

[Huntster]

15 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

"The harder I work, the luckier I get."  Samuel Goldwyn

 

While generally true, it is certainly not universal........

[wiiawiwb]

Very few things are universally true but keeping your nose to the grindstone will likely pay off in the end. 

 

I think it was Woody Allen who said that 80% of success is just showing up. I agree and almost every business owner I talk to lately wishes more employees lived by that credo. 

 

 

[Huntster]

Agreed, but I can't help thinking about Lyle Laverty and his one lingering doubt about the PG film. He's said it publicly more than once: he and his timber cruising crew worked in the Six Rivers National Forest daily for years and never had a sighting, yet a pair of cowboys from Yakima make a couple of short trips into the forest and emerge, not only with a great sighting, but with the film footage of a few lifetimes.

 

"Luck" (and its antonyms) most definitely exist. Been there, done that, repeatedly. Indeed, after one of my escapades, an Alaska State Trooper actually said to a reporter (who published the statement) that "Mr. Huntster is a very lucky man", but privately told me that I was both very unlucky for the experience to occur to me, yet incredibly lucky to have survived in a way that I made a full recovery.........and I've had numerous experiences in life like that.

 

Of all the sasquatch sighting types, seeing one while driving is among the most common. That's almost pure luck. Sure, driving around at night/dawn/dusk might increase your astronomical odds, but it's still almost pure luck.