Neanderthal locomotion

[ClayRock]

 There was an ancient aliens episode with some British author who tried to make the case for denisovans being the mystery culture that built the Egyptian pyramids or maybe the sphinx too. Point is fringe theorists consider anything that can't be disproven to be fair game to use any way that a fringe theorist wants. I'm not seeing neanderthal as a Sasquatch either even if i had a great reason to make a theory fit, it doesn't work. 

 

[Twist]

11 hours ago, Bearfoot said:

Hey Twist, that is just my opinion. Have always thought they were only from Northern California up through British Columbia. It just makes sense they stay as they say "deep in the woods" and where there are fewer people. I realize this goes against many here on the forum but just can't make myself believe they are any place else. Wouldn't mind a bit if I was proven wrong though! lol! Maybe some day, always hoping!

It’s as good a guess as anyone has.   Im of the opinion they are migratory but would not at all be surprised that some do stay rooted in areas such as the NW while others tend to wander.   If they are close to us on the evolutionary tree then the phrase “it takes all kinds” could certainly be true for BF.   

[MonkeMan]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:43 PM, norseman said:

Bergman’s rule.

 

Bergman's principle and Allen's rule are probably why Neandertals looks they way they did. They already lived in extremely cold environment, I doubt they are the ancestor of Sasquatch

 

On 7/9/2021 at 6:11 PM, norseman said:

The more it sounds like what Meldrum and Krantz are saying about Sasquatch locomotion. ...

 

What are the similarities between the Neandertal and sasquatch locomotion?

[iacozizzle]

I don't think so because the limb index numbers are too far apart.  The chart pic shows neanderthal humerofemoral index in the 60s.  Patty is estimated to have a humerofemoral index of 91.8 in the thread below.

 

Graphic and analysis well done by SweatYeti.  Scroll about halfway down the page for the grapic of Patty.  Looks to me the disparity in limb ratios between neanderthals and what we have on Patty is too large.  

I looked through many web pages trying to find an intermembral index figure for neanderthals and couldn't find one.  What did keep popping up were stats for australopthecus.  Australopthecus and Patty have similar numbers in humerofemoral index, intermembral index and there are also multiple australopthecus skulls with sagittal crests.

[norseman]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:57 PM, MonkeMan said:

 

 

What are the similarities between the Neandertal and sasquatch locomotion?

Did you read the article?
 

Thals toes were longer, so was the calcaneus. Their feet were wider. Their legs were shorter.

 

They were better sprinters, better at walking in mountains, rested by squatting.

 

What did Krantz and Meldrum say about supposed Sasquatch foot anatomy? 

[MonkeMan]

14 hours ago, norseman said:

Did you read the article?

 

They were better sprinters, better at walking in mountains, rested by squatting.

No figured I could just got a synopsis from you so I appreciate that.

 

That could also just be convergent evolution and not necessarily actually evidence that Sasquatch descends from Neandertals 

 

 

[norseman]

30 minutes ago, MonkeMan said:

No figured I could just got a synopsis from you so I appreciate that.

 

That could also just be convergent evolution and not necessarily actually evidence that Sasquatch descends from Neandertals 

 

 

If your beef with the theory is size? I think its misplaced. There is a huge variation in height concerning sapiens.

 

Also,

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2215803-ancient-footprints-show-neanderthals-may-have-been-taller-than-thought/amp/

 

So we don't really know yet just how tall the species got or where.

 

So what other concerns do you have?

[norseman]

http://www.sydhav.no/giants/south_africa_berger.htm

[MonkeMan]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

If your beef with the theory is size? I think its misplaced. There is a huge variation in height concerning sapiens.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2215803-ancient-footprints-show-neanderthals-may-have-been-taller-than-thought/amp/

 

 

 

Well first the actual study indicates that the those footprints in question could have been made by a single individual and the existence of an outlier of height would not contradict the contention that Neanderthals were on average shorter and stockier than Homo sapiens. Just as the existence of Shaq doesn't change the fact that the average height in american is 5'9"/5'10".

 

And my "beef" is far more than just the size, but the fact that Neandertals had clothing, a complex tool culture, and symbolic artifacts, and even language none of which are found in America and neither are they typically reported as coinciding with Sasquatch encounters. There are just far more parsimonious theories that don't require such leaps in logic to elucidate the origins of this species, if it exists.

 

1 hour ago, norseman said:

http://www.sydhav.no/giants/south_africa_berger.htm

 

What exactly is this supposed to prove? Do you have an actual peer-reviewed study? Or at least something that has at least an elementary level of anthropological understanding. I mean heidelbergensis were giants? LOL Really?

[norseman]

14 minutes ago, MonkeMan said:

 

Well first the actual study indicates that the those footprints in question could have been made by a single individual and the existence of an outlier of height would not contradict the contention that Neanderthals were on average shorter and stockier than Homo sapiens. Just as the existence of Shaq doesn't change the fact that the average height in american is 5'9"/5'10".

 

And my "beef" is far more than just the size, but the fact that Neandertals had clothing, a complex tool culture, and symbolic artifacts, and even language none of which are found in America and neither are they typically reported as coinciding with Sasquatch encounters. There are just far more parsimonious theories that don't require such leaps in logic to elucidate the origins of this species, if it exists.

 

 

What exactly is this supposed to prove? Do you have an actual peer-reviewed study? Or at least something that has at least an elementary level of anthropological understanding. I mean heidelbergensis were giants? LOL Really?

Your proving my point. Averages in different countries across the globe vary greatly! The fossil record is ridiculously incomplete.

 

Homo Heidelbergensis was taller than Neanderthals. Turkana boy was taller even than average sapien children of the same age. So Erectus was also taller. Giants? Maybe if a group split off? Its certainly not outside the realm of possibility. 

 

And all of these different Homo species we have the same problem. Tool use. Fire use. Culture. Etc.

 

But if Sasquatch is just an ape? Why don't we have one in a zoo? They also don't have a divergent big toe.. or live in trees. They are terrestrial and bipedal. A hallmark of humanity.

 

You bring up other possible theories?

Lets have them.

[norseman]

Also? If your looking for “peer reviewed” material on Sasquatch?

You might as well quit the forum now and subscribe to Science magazine!

 

I fully admit I’m looking for parallels and attempting to apply it to a mythical creature. Without a body on a slab, this is about as good as it gets…. 

[MonkeMan]

    

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Your proving my point.

 

Not really no.

 

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The fossil record is ridiculously incomplete.

 

Yes and while an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, an absence of evidence is still an absence of evidence.

 

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So Erectus was also taller.

 

That's not what that means. More than likely Homo erectus matured faster than Homo spaiens do. Which would coincide witht heir smaller brains and less complex tool culture.

 

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And all of these different Homo species we have the same problem. Tool use. Fire use. Culture. Etc

 

So then it's probably not Homo

 

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But if Sasquatch is just an ape? Why don't we have one in a zoo?

 

LOL I'm not really sure how being an "ape" would mean it must be in a zoo

 

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They also don't have a divergent big toe.. or live in trees.

 

So? 

 

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You bring up other possible theories?

 

Probably Australopithecus or Paranthropus. It probably evolved larger size and strength as a solution to increased predation rates vs Homo habilis which had evolved a larger brain size. But I don't really need alternatives to refute your hypothesis.

 

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looking for “peer reviewed” material on Sasquatch?

 

That's not what I said. You posted a link suggesting that Heidelbergensis was a Giant. Do you have actual data backing this up?

[norseman]

1 minute ago, MonkeMan said:

    

 

Not really no.

 

 

Yes and while an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, an absence of evidence is still an absence of evidence.

 

 

That's not what that means. More than likely Homo erectus matured faster than Homo spaiens do. Which would coincide witht heir smaller brains and less complex tool culture.

 

 

So then it's probably not Homo

 

 

LOL I'm not really sure how being an "ape" would mean it must be in a zoo

 

 

So? 

 

 

Probably Australopithecus or Paranthropus. It probably evolved larger size and strength as a solution to increased predation rates vs Homo habilis which had evolved a larger brain size. But I don't really need alternatives to refute your hypothesis.

 

 

That's not what I said. You posted a link suggesting that Heidelbergensis was a Giant. Do you have actual data backing this up?

You can fly to Africa and view the femur yourself?

Im not suggesting Heidelbergensis was a giant. Im suggesting the earlier species could produce giants just like Sapiens can.

 

So your theory is that a African species who is ALSO not 8 feet tall who has never been even found outside of Africa walked to north America? It also is no smarter than a gorilla. We have those in zoos. Its also a herbivore based on its dental morphology. How is a plant eating ape going to sustain itself in Siberia or North America in winter on plant life?

 

Sasquatch in order to remain hidden from modern science is going to be smarter than a gorilla. (Or a comparable species like paranthropus) Otherwise we would simply find them dead in the forest. Case closed. Also Gorilla level intelligence doesn't attempt to hide oneself from humans either. 
 

I will add the caveat again that we will not know until we produce a body.

 

But your theory has way more holes in it than mine does?

 

Which archaic Hominid was best suited for a journey to north America? Paranthropus would be at the very bottom of the list.

[MonkeMan]

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You can fly to Africa and view the femur yourself?

 

So no data?

 

2 hours ago, norseman said:

im suggesting the earlier species could produce giants just like Sapiens can.

 

By "giants" you mean tall individuals?

 

2 hours ago, norseman said:

So your theory is that a African species who is ALSO not 8 feet tall.....It also is no smarter than a gorilla. 

 

I didn't say Sasquatch is Australopithecus. I said Sasquatch likely descended from it. Morphologically speaking it is the path of least resistance for any extinct hominid to become what we know as Sasquatch.

 

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But your theory has way more holes in it than mine does?

 

LOL no. The only possible hole is that there is no conclusive evidence that Australopithecus made it to america but your theory doesn't really have that luxury either. 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, MonkeMan said:

 

So no data?

 

 

By "giants" you mean tall individuals?

 

 

I didn't say Sasquatch is Australopithecus. I said Sasquatch likely descended from it. Morphologically speaking it is the path of least resistance for any extinct hominid to become what we know as Sasquatch.

 

 

LOL no. The only possible hole is that there is no conclusive evidence that Australopithecus made it to america but your theory doesn't really have that luxury either. 

At least in my theory?

 

My candidates made it out of Africa….

 

Morphologically speaking? Your beating up my theory that Neanderthals are too short to evolve into a Sasquatch. So you pick a species that is alittle over 4 feet tall and just over 100 lbs!🤣🤣🤣