A Paranormal Proposition

[Guest HairyGreek]

I'd like to know that, too, because it seems to be the case.

I think I have said this somewhere else. May have been in this thread. the Sierra Sounds guy thinks they are physical but may be extra-dimensional. It would help if some part of that could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are three or four things there to prove though. 4D is a theory as far as I know. Traveling between is another hurdle. Then there is the supernatural feats associated with Sas even if he is PN to prove. Then there is proving Bigfoot himself. Pick any one and start there. Good luck.

[Guest]

Over the years I've heard much talk of the "high-strangeness" (I hate the term paranormal) aspect of some sasquatch reports. Frustration with some recent posts on the subject got me thinking. Unlike the many techniques used by the so-called flesh & blood folks, I can only think of one or two realistic ideas or methods ever suggested to investigate the possibility that sasquatch is anything other than a wholly physical creature.

As a hardcore believer in the Bigfoot/Sasquatch phenomenon, I can't claim to know what sasquatch is, but I'm certain it's not all hoaxes and misidentifications. I can only go where the evidence and personal experience point. That being said, I want to give all theories a fair hearing.

So my question is this, for the PN and F&B bigfooters alike: What sort of field experiments can you suggest to either confirm or refute the high-strangeness aspect of sasquatch? (I'm fully aware of the difficulty of proving a negative, but I want to encourage any and all ideas you might have.)

I am willing and able to perform any reasonable investigation in select local areas that have on-going activity. I have a few ideas of my own but would love to hear what you guys(and gals) can come up with. This seems like a more productive way to approach the PN claims than to have people make dogmatic claims of sasquatch "other-worldliness" with nothing to back up their claims but opinions and personal anecdotes, be they first, second, third hand, and so on. Perhaps some clarity can be achieved by a more methodological approach. Let me know what you think.

In my opinion...There's no reason why Bigfoot cant be a physical entity, with paranormal abilities. So the same methods one would use to find a strictly physical specimen should work just fine. However, if your going on a strictly paranormal Bigfoot hunt, you should probably go to an area that you knew had a history of sightings. Find a quiet spot...off the beaten track. Sit down, clear your head, and try to contact them with your mind. Maybe find a stump, and put some fruit, and a small mirror on it, and leave. Come back a week later, and do it again. I think you'll be surprised at what you'll see.

[Guest]

The paranormal things are inseparable from my religious beliefs, so it is a bit difficult to speak of one without referencing the other in some respect. I will say the following from my perspective:

1) I still maintain that BF are purely animals/physical beings with the same qualities and abilities as all other animal only (of course I could be wrong, and it won't wreck my world if I am).

2) I think what folks ascribing to the PN view are experiencing is something else, but that it is real & not imagined (not in every case, though, as there are plenty of nut cases around).

3) I believe spiritual beings/entities are capable of assuming physical form at will & are capable of leaving behind physical evidence (footprints, hiding dentures in the light fixture, etc.). Even influencing the visual sphere (allowing itself to be seen) is producing physical evidence by absorbing and reflecting light.

I think I got my views across and stayed in the rules this time! I'm trying anyway!

Edited for spelling. Darned OCD!

Edited August 27, 2011 by Surveyor

[Guest]

I think I have said this somewhere else. May have been in this thread. the Sierra Sounds guy thinks they are physical but may be extra-dimensional. It would help if some part of that could be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are three or four things there to prove though. 4D is a theory as far as I know. Traveling between is another hurdle. Then there is the supernatural feats associated with Sas even if he is PN to prove. Then there is proving Bigfoot himself. Pick any one and start there. Good luck.

The dimensions are nothing more than descriptive qualities of measurements. The first two are height and width. The 3rd dimension is depth (3D). The 4th dimension is time (Einstein). A lot of times people seem to confuse the idea of dimensions with parallel worlds or something similar, and that extra-dimensional beings have somehow acquired the ability to travel between their world and ours. I suppose the idea came from some of the great science fiction novels and comics. Einstein and some others actually theorized that time travel might be possible, but I think that he in particular abandoned the idea later in life. Another theory, one that has its basis in religion, is that some beings have the ability to exist outside the boundaries of time, and really all measurement. So, perhaps the 5th dimension is one of no constraints of measurement at all.

Whew, it's a good thing I didn't get off topic or anything.......lol

[Guest HairyGreek]

The dimensions are nothing more than descriptive qualities of measurements. The first two are height and width. The 3rd dimension is depth (3D). The 4th dimension is time (Einstein). A lot of times people seem to confuse the idea of dimensions with parallel worlds or something similar, and that extra-dimensional beings have somehow acquired the ability to travel between their world and ours. I suppose the idea came from some of the great science fiction novels and comics. Einstein and some others actually theorized that time travel might be possible, but I think that he in particular abandoned the idea later in life. Another theory, one that has its basis in religion, is that some beings have the ability to exist outside the boundaries of time, and really all measurement. So, perhaps the 5th dimension is one of no constraints of measurement at all.

Whew, it's a good thing I didn't get off topic or anything.......lol

You are not getting too far off point. I think you and I may have very similar beliefs. Sorry if you felt I was "moderating" you earlier. I felt I had talked about some touchy stuff and then you followed up. I am going to PM you with a theory. It may be along the lines of what you are thinking.

[Guest]

So wait...it's not the claustrophobia? I had no idea...that is wild. Well, could you rig something that reads EMF in some way? Not really interested in an Sas having a panic attack either.

You most certainly could, they use those EMF detectors in paranormal investigations all the time. All you would have to do is put them high enough above their line of vision in a couple of trees on either side of a game trail. Have a camera pointed down higher up in the trees above the EMF detectors. If the Sasquatch are emitting a high range of EMF the detectors will light up and you may catch the movement of the Sas as it walks by. Now it might get mad and pull the trees down, but then again it might leave the area with your evidence intact.

[Guest HairyGreek]

What are your thoughts on how successful this would be since they seem to also have an uncanny ability to sense cameras and other recording devices? Do you think this is acute hearing and not some other form of detection? If so, I am curious if an EMF detector gives off any type of sound that would make a F&B or a PN Bigfoot weary of approach with one of these machines on. You can't seem to get near them at all with anything like that at all. It's funny. The General was probably out in the woods with nothing even resembling a recording device (I'm sure they weren't driving with the radio on while hunting for bear) and he seemed to sneak right up on them. Something to keep in mind. Heck, maybe another good question finally for the General.

[Guest]

Absolutely there is a different perspective, or the 5th dimension, if you want to call it that. We perceive time going in one direction: past, present, future, but if you aren't on that holographic ribbon experiencing it you see everything at once. It's called omnipresence.

I don't know of anything living that experiences time differently. So if you think there is something else out there without a flesh and blood body then it shouldn't be limited in it's perception like we are.

This happens to people all the time, it's called intuition. In some folks it goes a bit beyond that when you just know something but you don't know why you know it.

Surveyor- We only found my grandmother's partial when we went into her bedroom to help her get ready for bed and turned on the overhead light. There is no way she could have pitched it into the fixture since it was one those that hug the ceiling. I am positive that she didn't climb up on a chair and put it in the fixture. Oddly enough, the same thing happened to my daughter's retainer. It just disappeared while we were visiting. We never found it even when we were cleaning out the house after my grandmother died. I don't know what the deal was with dental appliances, it was kind of funny.

[Guest krakatoa]

The dimensions are nothing more than descriptive qualities of measurements. The first two are height and width. The 3rd dimension is depth (3D). The 4th dimension is time (Einstein). A lot of times people seem to confuse the idea of dimensions with parallel worlds or something similar, and that extra-dimensional beings have somehow acquired the ability to travel between their world and ours. I suppose the idea came from some of the great science fiction novels and comics. Einstein and some others actually theorized that time travel might be possible, but I think that he in particular abandoned the idea later in life. Another theory, one that has its basis in religion, is that some beings have the ability to exist outside the boundaries of time, and really all measurement. So, perhaps the 5th dimension is one of no constraints of measurement at all.

Whew, it's a good thing I didn't get off topic or anything.......lol

Actually, I think Einstein believed it was possible to travel forward in time, via traveling away from Earth and back at relatavistic speeds, but not back.

This restriction could be circumvented if the theory of multiverses were true.

The concept of a "multiverse" is an interesting one, wherein if one alternate universe exists, then almost certainly an infinite number of them exists, in which all things imaginable are not only possible, but almost certainly probable.

Mind-bending stuff, wherein different laws of physics can be at play on the denizens of said universes.

However, (so far as I understand it) assuming that said hypothetical denizens could make the breach into our universe, the strictures of physics within this universe would apply.

The LISA satellite project could have disproved this theory, but since NASA decided to get out of the space business and instead focus on politically correct endeavors, the project has been delayed.

Edited August 27, 2011 by krakatoa

[Guest]

What are your thoughts on how successful this would be since they seem to also have an uncanny ability to sense cameras and other recording devices? Do you think this is acute hearing and not some other form of detection? If so, I am curious if an EMF detector gives off any type of sound that would make a F&B or a PN Bigfoot weary of approach with one of these machines on. You can't seem to get near them at all with anything like that at all. It's funny. The General was probably out in the woods with nothing even resembling a recording device (I'm sure they weren't driving with the radio on while hunting for bear) and he seemed to sneak right up on them. Something to keep in mind. Heck, maybe another good question finally for the General.

I think if it is above them, they will miss it. I base that on some reports where they hide up in trees to avoid detection. Their eyes and ears are in the same places as ours so I would think they would be less likely to notice anything above them. Hopefully, the tree cover would hide some of the noise. The trick is getting the camera pointed just right on a branch above where you suspect they travel through where you can get a clear shot.

[Guest]

Even if the thread isn't coming up with much right now, we are thinking it over. It's a tough question. Maybe someone will come up with a creative idea or two yet. The talk stimulates thought, even when it's not completely serious.

Thing is, we do not know the limits or capabilities of spirit things. Some assume they cannot manipulate matter, but what basis do we have for that? Movies? -? What do we really know? Once we admit the idea that they are NOT just normal critters which are unusually elusive, all bets are off. Proof is going to be even more elusive than the creature.

For example, how could I prove you are physical, not otherwise? This should be easier than proving they are spirits, interdimensional, etc. or proving a negative.

If I had you locked in a cage down at the precinct, that would do. Failing that,

Pain? Normally, I would poke you in the eye with a sharp stick and hear you screech, but with a bf, not gonna try it.

Heat: I find you emit heat, but could spirits also emit heat? Maybe. But they are real, in that case, anyway.

Images? Would you show up on film if NOT physical? Maybe. Does not prove much, because easy to be fooled. No use to that.

Tracks? Could be physical. Could be other. Meh.

You seem to have language. Conclusive of intelligence and vocal structures. Maybe hominid? Maybe spirit. Meh again.

Hair? Makes physical more likely. But not definite. UNless you get a hair follicle bit.

DNA? Yes, physical but maybe also able to ....I don't know, evaporate at will.

If I can't prove you are purely physical, I don't know about proving any other option.

Maybe somebody could think of a way to do that without locking one up, but I can't think of anything really conclusive, meself.

Maybe we should just face the fact. We are gonna have to catch one.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Kings Canyon

[Guest]

A point I often make is to consider that we arose about a billion years after life ought to have been possible in the universe. Imagine that for a second.

A civilization just a few thousand years more advanced than we are would be pretty well beyond our understanding. Now a billion..

Everything we take to be spirit or paranormal may simply be technology that is a billion or so years old -- so advanced, we can only call it magic.

[Guest]

Even if the thread isn't coming up with much right now, we are thinking it over. It's a tough question. Maybe someone will come up with a creative idea or two yet. The talk stimulates thought, even when it's not completely serious.

Thing is, we do not know the limits or capabilities of spirit things. Some assume they cannot manipulate matter, but what basis do we have for that? Movies? -? What do we really know? Once we admit the idea that they are NOT just normal critters which are unusually elusive, all bets are off. Proof is going to be even more elusive than the creature.

For example, how could I prove you are physical, not otherwise? This should be easier than proving they are spirits, interdimensional, etc. or proving a negative.

If I had you locked in a cage down at the precinct, that would do. Failing that,

Pain? Normally, I would poke you in the eye with a sharp stick and hear you screech, but with a bf, not gonna try it.

Heat: I find you emit heat, but could spirits also emit heat? Maybe. But they are real, in that case, anyway.

Images? Would you show up on film if NOT physical? Maybe. Does not prove much, because easy to be fooled. No use to that.

Tracks? Could be physical. Could be other. Meh.

You seem to have language. Conclusive of intelligence and vocal structures. Maybe hominid? Maybe spirit. Meh again.

Hair? Makes physical more likely. But not definite. UNless you get a hair follicle bit.

DNA? Yes, physical but maybe also able to ....I don't know, evaporate at will.

If I can't prove you are purely physical, I don't know about proving any other option.

Maybe somebody could think of a way to do that without locking one up, but I can't think of anything really conclusive, meself.

Maybe we should just face the fact. We are gonna have to catch one.

It's just like I mentioned above with the "Smith & Wesson Test" to prove a flesh & blood creature. If I shoot you between the eyes with a .44 magnum and you fall over dead and remain that way permanently, you aren't paranormal. Houdini had some folks fooled into thinking he was "magic", but I assure you he is rather decomposed right now. You can prove something is purely physical, but that is about as far as it goes. It is easy to fool people into thinking something or someone is paranormal, and you cannot prove that it isn't to the satisfaction of everyone. The best bet is to attempt to prove BF is purely physical, which, if it is real, you actually stand a chance of doing.

[Guest]

No doubt King, but if what is attributed as paranormal is in fact created by a normal phenomena that is mis-idenified, then that aspect must be considered also. I'm leaving the physical proof to the folks that claim they already have it. The next step, once the existence of something unknown out there is established or confirmed, is to figure out what exactly they can do and how they do it. Knowing that they are flesh and blood definitely gives you a different starting point to work from in trying to figure that out.

[Guest HairyGreek]

A point I often make is to consider that we arose about a billion years after life ought to have been possible in the universe. Imagine that for a second.

A civilization just a few thousand years more advanced than we are would be pretty well beyond our understanding. Now a billion..

Everything we take to be spirit or paranormal may simply be technology that is a billion or so years old -- so advanced, we can only call it magic.

My fist question is, what is time before anyone was around to measure it? What does it really mean and how is anyone so sure what seems like happened over millions of years did not happen in a single instant with all the elements compressed and assembled to resemble what could look like billions of years? What does time mean without sentience involved really? Sorry, getting philosophical.

If Bigfoot is connected to a million year old technology, you would think they would understand the importance of a bath considered the smelly and unkempt appearance most describe. If this is a guise to keep others at a distance, why not just morph into a skunk? So as to not raise suspicion and still keep others away.

That's a nice Thor-like theory you have there, but it doesn't work for me. Doesn't mean you may not be right, it just doesn't seem to fit into anything Bigfoot related anyhow.

This thread is putting me in the "kill" camp.

Edited August 27, 2011 by HairyGreek