A Paranormal Proposition

[Guest]

OK reading through all the responses, there doesn't seem to be many respondents coming up with a way to try and get Proof of Paranormal ("High-Strangeness") that the OP has suggested. I think this is basically because there is some confusion as to where to start on the scale of "Flesh-and-Blood-Everything-Normal" to "Multi-Dimensional-Hairy-Super-Being".

The Flesh and Blood Guys just seem to want to discredit anything where as the Paranormal Guys want to take everything. Though there are a few who have hinted to the fact that maybe its somewhere in between. Granted using the EMF detector from observation in other Paranormal fields would mean actually being in close contact with BF but how would you differentiate between BF and any other paranormal phenomenon? The same follows with thermal, is it a deer, a Bear or Old Joe in his Gilly suit setting out for his Hide?

I would suggest that instead of trying to use the tools of each others camp as a way to categorically prove that either is correct, but approach it in such a way as to test whether aspects of either have some validity. Since it is very hard to approach this from the Paranormal, because of its Ephemeral nature, we do not have the tools to point to and say "Here is my evidence" we can only approach it from the Flesh and Blood side and try to set parameters which, using our logical understanding of possibilities, might attempt to prove or disprove certain Paranormal claims.

With all that being said, how do we approach this?

From MY Standpoint the first thing I would try and determine is the question of BF's purported Telepathic ability. This seems to run the Gambit of Full Mind to Mind Communication, through to BF's ability to avoid any area an active investigation is currently in, only to have "civilians" out on a picnic run into one. For this I would approach it as an "Experiment" using 3 Groups. Within the "Peak Season" for a given area, though at differing times to avoid contamination, have a "test" Group with Camera's but no Foreknowledge that they are in a BF sighting area. The next group have a Group sent in to Document a species known to inhabit the area like Deer or whatever again without the BF area foreknowledge. The last group a standard BF Search/Investigation.

As to Equipment I would propose a multiple function Camera which records more than one type of image at the same time, my preference would be a HD Image(Broad spectrum)combined with FLIR that can be overlayed onto the HD Image directly to try and pinpoint irregularities. Ideally new 3D camera technology could be used in this way.

I am fully aware that I am a Relative newcomer to this and expect My response to be picked apart, and I apologise fully if I have trodden on any toes inadvertently. So thank you for listening to me.

[Guest HairyGreek]

I like it. Jump right in. If they are visible to the human eye, they are to cameras. We have enough video footage to at least argue that they are filmable (just see the 40 year argument on the PGF for that). I would also suggest the use of animals. Animals can sense things we cannot even begin to understand. Dogs and horses come to mine a animals who seem to know when these creatures are around and can act as a sort of "tuning fork", excuse the analogy. It should be noted that people have been actively trying to capture this creature in various fashions for over 40 years so you can count on this being a VERY long research experiment. I actually was only half joking in what I said to para ape. I still think the best way to prove this whole thing one way or another is an experienced militarily trained sniper team with video scopes shooting one of these things.

Edited August 30, 2011 by HairyGreek

[Guest para ape]

OK reading through all the responses, there doesn't seem to be many respondents coming up with a way to try and get Proof of Paranormal ("High-Strangeness") that the OP has suggested. I think this is basically because there is some confusion as to where to start on the scale of "Flesh-and-Blood-Everything-Normal" to "Multi-Dimensional-Hairy-Super-Being".

The Flesh and Blood Guys just seem to want to discredit anything where as the Paranormal Guys want to take everything. Though there are a few who have hinted to the fact that maybe its somewhere in between. Granted using the EMF detector from observation in other Paranormal fields would mean actually being in close contact with BF but how would you differentiate between BF and any other paranormal phenomenon? The same follows with thermal, is it a deer, a Bear or Old Joe in his Gilly suit setting out for his Hide?

I would suggest that instead of trying to use the tools of each others camp as a way to categorically prove that either is correct, but approach it in such a way as to test whether aspects of either have some validity. Since it is very hard to approach this from the Paranormal, because of its Ephemeral nature, we do not have the tools to point to and say "Here is my evidence" we can only approach it from the Flesh and Blood side and try to set parameters which, using our logical understanding of possibilities, might attempt to prove or disprove certain Paranormal claims.

With all that being said, how do we approach this?

From MY Standpoint the first thing I would try and determine is the question of BF's purported Telepathic ability. This seems to run the Gambit of Full Mind to Mind Communication, through to BF's ability to avoid any area an active investigation is currently in, only to have "civilians" out on a picnic run into one. For this I would approach it as an "Experiment" using 3 Groups. Within the "Peak Season" for a given area, though at differing times to avoid contamination, have a "test" Group with Camera's but no Foreknowledge that they are in a BF sighting area. The next group have a Group sent in to Document a species known to inhabit the area like Deer or whatever again without the BF area foreknowledge. The last group a standard BF Search/Investigation.

As to Equipment I would propose a multiple function Camera which records more than one type of image at the same time, my preference would be a HD Image(Broad spectrum)combined with FLIR that can be overlayed onto the HD Image directly to try and pinpoint irregularities. Ideally new 3D camera technology could be used in this way.

I am fully aware that I am a Relative newcomer to this and expect My response to be picked apart, and I apologise fully if I have trodden on any toes inadvertently. So thank you for listening to me.

You make some good points.If they can communicate telepathically and know when to avoid areas that researchers investigate,they are something beyond just an animal

[Guest HairyGreek]

@para ape - They can be beyond just an animal. They can even be something evil. They can be both and STILL be physical beings. PLEASE contact me by PM and let me send you something to look into.

Edited August 30, 2011 by HairyGreek

[Guest para ape]

Hairy,I disagree with you.

[Guest HairyGreek]

Para - do you have ANYTHING to go on but what you have read? ANYTHING at all?

[Guest]

Para- If you haven't already , you need to check your PM's, respond to let me know you got them.

[Guest Boolywooger]

HairyGreek has already touched on this, but the experiment has already been done.

If you accept the premise that:

A) Hairy Folk exist.

They are not extremely rare.

Then, if you take the tens of millions of hours of Game Cam deployment, then they are apparently avoiding being photographed more than the 5 senses would allow for. Even if you allow that they scent or hear some of them, it isn't really explainable with simply the 5 senses. If they are really just flesh and blood, then it isn't easily explainable how they so quickly became alerted to them and how easily they avoided them.

I'm not firmly in the paranormal group. I've only had one personal experience that I would put in the paranormal box, well maybe two. However, I have read enough accounts that I have to leave the paranormal door open.

[Guest HairyGreek]

I will say this for para: he hasn't contributed to any of them, but he has started some really great discussions to keep everyone busy until something breaks in all this EP, OP, DNA project stuff.

Some interesting talk over in the "In the Field" section about the glowing red eyes phenomenon too. I STILL think they are physical, but we are not talking about your average bear here either. That was a Yogi reference. I am not saying Bigfoot is a bear...

[Guest]

You make some good points.If they can communicate telepathically and know when to avoid areas that researchers investigate,they are something beyond just an animal

Yes but the Little word with Big meaning in that is "If". That is why I put forward the idea as an experiment with the barest minimum of variables. Once you start bringing in greater levels of technology you run the risk of fowling your results. The Rat for example was thought to be Colour-blind 1990) but now it is shown that they can see into the Ultraviolet (see http://www.ratbehavior.org/RatVision.htm ). Such sensitivities must be taken into consideration since what is being conceived as Telepathy may be sensitivity to EMF fields. So by changing only the perceived focus of the groups put into the field we can get a benchmark that can Prove or disprove the Paranormal claims.

Remembering of course that it would take multiple outings for each group. An equal result ie Camera hits, Whooping and Knocking across all 3 groups would tend to indicate that Telepathy COULD be a possible answer, whereas Higher frequency of incidents within one group only may indicate that telepathy may be a factor.

Adding further variables such as Dogs, varying concentrations of electrical equipment, UV/Infra-red lights, Pheromones etc etc are all things which have the potential to skew results because they may introduce another factor that can alert BF to their presence/motivations just as easily as if they could be a benign addition and only help. Though I don't like to use the show as an example when "Monsterquest" went looking for the Giant Squid, when they attached the green laser pointers as a device to allow a more accurate measurement for anything they might have caught on camera. The only thing they succeeded in doing was announce their presence which made all the other squid avoid the camera.

So Ideally experiments using the differing methods of detecting Bigfoot would have to be conducted either separately (which would push this viability to non-existent) or use this initial set of experiments as a Kernel then as more results are collected and analysed under these conditions further experimental conditions set based on previous experiments to try and determine the ideally equipped Group, with the correct mindset (ie clueless/misdirected/knowing). This would ultimately have multiple results

1. Data Data Data

2. Parameters for ideal observation

3. Vindication that it is a Real Creature/Phenomenon

4. Limiting Factors induced by Equipment

5. the determination of Selected Paranormal factors

Please note that my Personal ideas of exactly what Bigfoot IS are not the focus, only the determination of whether the various attributes attached to Bigfoot are valid. That Bigfoot exists is the only given everything else should follow from evidence.

[Guest HairyGreek]

Please note that my Personal ideas of exactly what Bigfoot IS are not the focus, only the determination of whether the various attributes attached to Bigfoot are valid. That Bigfoot exists is the only given everything else should follow from evidence.

Brilliantly put. You have to discount with solid proof that Bigfoot is F&B before you can do much more than consider that the creature itself is paranormal.

[ThePhaige]

I have had what I classify a "High-Strangeness" paranormal encounter , that was every bit as real to me as anything I can describe to you otherwise. However having been on this forum for a very long time and knowing the purity of evidence and science demanded here I would be very hesitant to share it, let alone try to prove it. It was one of those things that I have have just chosen to consider a gift and leave it at that for now. For fear of being ridiculed I have limited the details in hopes that I might have more, and learn more or be able to correlate something concrete with something tangible and /or scientific at a later time. For me the Sasquatch "as we call them" has been a life long thing that began as a child for me and is a much longer story than what I can really share or prove. Its really like a double edged sword.I am a 43 year old man and could care less about starting a band wagon, or convincing anyone of anything. I just enjoy the fellowship here and the enthusiasm for mysterious things on earth. For the record though I have always believed Patty G and that film are the real deal and nothing about that capture negates anything I have experienced in any way.I do hold my opinions and personal beliefs based on my own research, but much of that doesn't really fit here at this particular forum.So I have always limited my sharing to what I think does.

The things I could say about my experiences ... into the realms of what I refer to as "the meat and potato "reports of others in general

or might I say corroborate with what others have shared and seem to be pretty commonly held testimony are as follow.

1. The odor reported by so many others, that old dumpster like methane.. with a hint of reclaimed water(sulfur dioxide)

2. An unnaturally overwhelming fear response, or how would I say .. what seemed like manipulated fear invocation. A sense of paralytic fear.

3. An ease at which to render themselves invisible, or stealth capability beyond what we consider just ducking behind a tree.

to describe in further they displayed the uncanny ability to manage angular movement and visual physics trickery to stay unseen.

4. I wonder if anyone can corroborate a sense of humor in their encounters. Just out of curiosity

[Guest]

Hi all. Listen, I know I'm not a Bigfoot researcher or anything, but I'd like to share something that I have noticed. First off, I've known about Bigfoot since I saw the Patterson film years ago. I've never seen one, but I do believe they exist. Ok, that out of the way. Here is what I noticed. I've watched alot of the video's on here and on the internet. I have noticed that a lot of noise is made while setting up camps, and microphones and things. I also noticed that some of the camera's are loud when operating. One thing that you may want to check on is this. As some of you all know, I've been scuba diving a long time. I've taken alot of underwater photos and movies. Lots. When I'm underwater, I can hear from a very far distance. A camera shutter clicking noise, I'm a human, and can easily hear from maybe 80 to 150 feet away from another camera man when they take a photo. (Depending on what kind of sea life is around making noises) I can also hear a video camera underwater about the same distance and can hear it running. It's very loud actually. Water can make sound waves go a great distance. So, what I"m saying is this. Maybe this creature has very good hearing, and when the camera's start or begin, they can hear it. I'm not sure, but, it might be something to investigate. Also, if the camera lens looks or appears out of character to their environment, maybe they have extremely good vision to see that. All I can relate this to you is this way. I've treasure hunted for many years on shipwrecks. What we look for are man made shapes. A couple being, straight lines, and circles. Maybe these creatures, living in the woods notice something like that more readily than an average person. It would seem unnatural to them and cause them to be more alert or wary.

As an example, I remember going with a few people to a target range from WWI near town here. It is a park. I went into the woods with them, and I found at least 60 spent bullets in like five minutes. The people with me could not see them at all. I even put my finger on one on the ground and said, here... can you see it now? And they couldn't. I have trained my vision to see manmade objects underwater and in clear water, can see them far away. I may be way off base here talking about underwater stuff. But, if I were taking photos on land, and with what I know and what I have read about not getting photos of a Bigfoot in the woods. I would make my camera look more natural. Especially the lens and make it so it was not a circle and black, and I wouldn't have any straight lines on it and remove the cables holding it on a tree. I'd use maybe one of those tiny cameras and put it in a rock or a stump or something. I would also find one that is silent when taking a picture or movie. But, I'm not sure they make one that does that. I'm guessing here on the sound aspect, and I"m not sure what kind of noises or electrical impulses emit from the newer kind of movie cameras. I use a digital camera now, and I checked mine, and it is loud on land. I can also hear it humming inside while it is on. Maybe it is emiting a loud noise we can't hear. Just a thought....

[Guest ChrisBFRPKY]

Excellent post Gail. That's exactly the kind of thinking that will let you get close to these creatures. Too many researchers overlook or fail to consider the small things. I think you are right on the money.

It seems very likely to me that these creatures can process alot more visually than we can, and also likely that they have very good hearing IMO.

Chris B.

[Sasfooty]

Maybe it is emiting a loud noise we can't hear. Just a thought....

That is a very good idea, Gail! I think they have been trying to make game cams quieter, but they may not have thought about noises they may be making that are out of our range of hearing.

Bigfoot may hear frequencies that we don't.