The St. Helens Pilot

[Guest rockinkt]

I can't for the life of me figure out why any dead animals were brought out for any reason - much less to be burned.

Anybody have an explanation for the basic premise of this whole story?

[TKD]

I would smell realy bad for a while with no scavengers to clean up the place?

[Guest rockinkt]

I would smell realy bad for a while with no scavengers to clean up the place?

Interesting idea - but I think a quick perusal of the basic facts would preclude it as being a consideration - much less a priority.

Damage Estimates: $1.1 billion for timber, civil works and agricultural losses. This does not include money for personal property losses, the cost of ash clean-up, or the loss of tourism in the area immediately after the eruption. Animals 7,000 big game animals, 12 million Chinook and Coho salmon, and millions of birds and small mammals are believed to have died in the eruption.

The largest landslide in recorded history swept down the mountain at speeds of 70 to 150 miles per hour and buried the North Fork of the Toutle River under an average of 150 feet of debris. Some areas are covered by as much as 600 feet. In all, approximately 23 square miles of material was removed from the mountain. The lateral blast swept out of the north side of MSH at 300 miles per hour creating a 230 square mile fan shaped area of devastation reaching a distance of 17 miles from the crater. With temperatures as high as 660 degrees F and the power of 24 megatons of thermal energy, it snapped 100 year old trees like toothpicks and stripped them of their bark.

The snow on MSH that was not instantly flashed to steam by the heat, melted and formed large mudflows that destroyed 27 bridges, 200 homes, 185 miles of roadway, and 15 miles of railway.

Pyroclastic flows rolled out of the crater for hours after the eruption. Covering 6 square miles, they sterilized the remaining soil with temperatures nearing 1,300 degrees F.

The massive ash cloud grew to 80,000 feet (18 kilometers) in 15 minutes and reached the east coast in 3 days. Although most of the ash fell within 300 miles of the mountain, finer ash circled the earth in 15 days and may continue to stay in the atmosphere for many years.

57 people were killed as a result of the eruption. Of these, 21 bodies were never recovered from the blast zone.

http://www.olywa.net...e/StHelens.html

[bipedalist]

....57 people were killed as a result of the eruption. Of these, 21 bodies were never recovered from the blast zone.

So if we use a similar ratio of obstinate BF's that refused to move quickly enough, we should maybe have a considerable number pushed around

by pyroclastic flows or buried in that 150-600 ft. of ash I would assume. Should have been a couple at the least decimated by the shockwave of thermal energy that would strip bark from trees too I would think. So where are they? (insert scratching top of head smilie here) (sorry about the bold, couldn't get it turned off for some reason)

[Guest nycBig]

"I can't for the life of me figure out why any dead animals were brought out for any reason - much less to be burned."

The Fish Game and Wildlife are under the delusional impression that they have to manage animals, as if they couldnt do it without us. They falsify claims of 'overpopulation' and disease to justify hunting animals, which puts money in their budget and their pockets.

[Guest]

I can't for the life of me figure out why any dead animals were brought out for any reason - much less to be burned.

Me either.

The Fish Game and Wildlife are under the delusional impression that they have to manage animals, as if they couldnt do it without us. They falsify claims of 'overpopulation' and disease to justify hunting animals, which puts money in their budget and their pockets.

That still doesn't answer the question. Who says the government, by default, spends the money to carry away carcasses in such a wilderness area as that? Who says by default that the government doesn't let nature take its course while advising people not to enter the area due to contaminates from decaying animals for a few months?

[Wheellug]

"I can't for the life of me figure out why any dead animals were brought out for any reason - much less to be burned."

The Fish Game and Wildlife are under the delusional impression that they have to manage animals, as if they couldnt do it without us. They falsify claims of 'overpopulation' and disease to justify hunting animals, which puts money in their budget and their pockets.

In regards to your later point regarding 'overpopulation'. I've seen it before and totally agree with managed hunting. There was a time down in Tx where deer hunting was virtually stopped. The deer began to overpopulate and when you think herds.. think in the hundreds to thousands. They were starving, they were dieing. It was heart wrenching to watch. This was quite few years back. Without predation they got really out of control.

[Guest nycBig]

but the only reason why things got out of control was because of humans, not because of animals. Ecosystems are designed perfectly and dont need to be managed unless humans beings begin destroying them. It is a fraud basicly. The work Fish Game should be doing is balancing ecosystems not supporting their destruction and then saying we need to hunt the overpopulated deer. If the ecosystmes were in balance there would be no need for hunting. Food supply and populations take care of themselves without human intervention.

Also Rutgers University has done a lot of research using birth control to control deer populations around human developments, which would be the most humane alternative...but problem is there is no money to continue research because the gun lobby is so powerful.

[Incorrigible1]

Also Rutgers University has done a lot of research using birth control to control deer populations around human developments, which would be the most humane alternative...but problem is there is no money to continue research because the gun lobby is so powerful.

I don't imagine you have any iota of proof regarding this assertion. This is delusional.

[Guest Fanofsquatch]

Flight logs would be a good place to start. All pilots (or all reliable pilots) keep detailed logs of each and every flight made. The sticky point, however, is that those log books are commonly the private property of the pilot and may not be subject to an FOI request. However, there is a very strong chance that his logbooks are stored in his personal effects somewhere, and that there is a separate set of logbooks on file with the Nat'l Guard (which may be obtainable via FOI). Logbooks are not something that would be disposed of or lost while he was alive, and hopefully the relatives knew their importance and still have them. His personal logbooks could also include details not in the NG versions (if these versions exist).

But, the logbooks likely won't say anything about the contents of the payload. They show the details of the flight (usually), including time, date, duration, weather, purpose of flight, etc. They may be able to provide evidence that flights were made on the dates and times described, and in the location described. It's not proof of the story, but it will go a long way towards validating the account of the flight(s).

FYI, this is an area where I have direct experience, I'm not talking out of anything but my mouth here...

This is exactly what I was trying to get across. My Father was sort of a pioneer in early Marine Corps helicopter aviation during Vietnam as they began to transition from the H19/34 into the CH-46 or as he called it "the widow maker". He also worked for the CIA during the Air America years and was ordered not to disclose anything but as years went by the importance was lessened and he would speak freely of his missions and cargo which often included drugs, the source of funding for the operation. He says that the sworn to secrecy bit is often overrated and there is little that can be done to an individual who talks, it comes down to honor.

What we hear a lot is where are the other stories? Like mentioned there is a minimum crew of three on a NG copter, not to mention the ground personnel. I can't imagine the National Guard mobilizing only a handful of men, had to be several hundred. As far as pictures I think any soldier would be stripped of his camera not due to secrecy but more of it not being part of his issued equipment. I am curious about how many BF bodies were found and how and where they were located. If true that info could go along way towards discovery such as they were located all in one area in a group on high ground or in a valley. Clues to their way of life.

[Guest Blackdog]

but the only reason why things got out of control was because of humans, not because of animals. Ecosystems are designed perfectly and dont need to be managed unless humans beings begin destroying them. It is a fraud basicly. The work Fish Game should be doing is balancing ecosystems not supporting their destruction and then saying we need to hunt the overpopulated deer. If the ecosystmes were in balance there would be no need for hunting. Food supply and populations take care of themselves without human intervention.

Also Rutgers University has done a lot of research using birth control to control deer populations around human developments, which would be the most humane alternative...but problem is there is no money to continue research because the gun lobby is so powerful.

Aw, it's the old "human beings are parasites" argument.

I suppose you believe we should just eliminate the human race?

An argument could be made for that but who would be around to monitor the results?

How is providing birth control to animals not interfering in the natural order? Hunting is much more natural, animals even do it, and some kill just for the sake of killing.

[Guest cryptidon]

Important whether the witness believed in Bigfoot prior to the report. Also, in his story no one actual tells him they are creatures he just makes that assumption upon seaing what he thought were arms. Could the arms have been bear forelegs with the fir burnt off?

Was my thought. There have been a few previous instances where bear remains were misidentified as 'humanoid'. There was a story a few years ago about a skinless appendage found at a gas station. It was presumed human, then identified as ursine.

[Guest nycBig]

Aw, it's the old "human beings are parasites" argument.

I suppose you believe we should just eliminate the human race?

An argument could be made for that but who would be around to monitor the results?

How is providing birth control to animals not interfering in the natural order? Hunting is much more natural, animals even do it, and some kill just for the sake of killing.

no not anti human at all but definitly just dont like govt fraud and waste like in 'managing' wildlife. I am not against hunting all together, just at the mismanagment of wildlife to promote hunting. Birth control is an unatural solution to an unatural problem, over development, but certainly one alternative that should be considered along with hunting.

[Guest]

Starving from over-population is a natural solution too. It's just that deer taste good enough to eat. So? Why not? And by the way, hunting deer and eating them is natural too.

[Guest nycBig]

Hunting these days is anything but natural: thermal cams, trail cams, remote cams, nightvision glasses, gps tracking, scent masking, baiting, decoys, electronic calls, ghillie suits , tree stands, exploding bullets, laser targets, spray bullets ...should i go on?