Seasonal migration?

[BobbyO]

10 hours ago, BobbyO said:

 

I found some pretty interesting data on the Ozarks in MO with some real interesting spring > summer numbers if my memory serves me right.

 

It's real late here right now so i'll dig it out and post (my) tomorrow.

 

In hindsight here i should have overlayed the swings, apologies. I'm swamped with work right now so don't have the time i'm afraid but you should get the jist here. Not the biggest of dataset by any stretch but just about big enough to give a possible insight in to the seasonality of reports in the Ozarks, from East to West.

 

For clarity of East/West, see below.

 

=====

 

'Eastern Ozarks' are all reports within the counties of :

Crawford
Laclede
Maries
Miller
Washington
Carter
Dent
Douglas
Howell
Oregon
Ozark
Phelps
Pulaski
Ripley
Shannon
Texas
Wright
Butler
Iron
Madison
Reynolds
St. Francois
Ste. Genevieve
Wayne

 

=====

 

'Western Ozarks' are all reports within the counties of :

 

Barry
Barton
Camden
Cedar
Christian
Dade
Dallas
Greene
Hickory
Jasper
Lawrence
McDonald
Newton
Polk
St. Clair
Stone
Taney
Vernon
Webster

 

=====

 

There is a singular chart/graphic here and hopefully two animated gifs with the east > west seasonal overlays.

 

I created this for a research group down there that were working the area, good people.

 

 

 

 

 

[JKH]

11 hours ago, BobbyO said:

 

I found some pretty interesting data on the Ozarks in MO with some real interesting spring > summer numbers if my memory serves me right.

 

It's real late here right now so i'll dig it out and post (my) tomorrow.

 

The original post wanted info about Ohio, not MO.

Edited February 1, 2023 by JKH

[BobbyO]

3 hours ago, JKH said:

 

The original post wanted info about Ohio, not MO.

 

We do all that work, put in all that time, then as a member and core member of this forums SSR team, i share it in a thread titled 'seasonal migration?' and you reply with that AFTER editing (i'd pay to see what you posted before editing) ? 

 

Seriously ? 

 

Beyond this, you're not even worthy of a reply.

[bipedalist]

Interesting how those pesky Missouri squatch stay on the edges more than the interior in the spring in the east.  Definitely prefer those woody edges that are heavily forested.  This in itself is very instructive no matter where your squatchermetric vicinity is state-boundary wise.  Keep up the great work @BobbyO  Very unique perspective to be gained.  I was wondering about waterways within those Missouri perimeters even ponds, lakes and reservoirs.  I suppose you could drill down on Google Earth and access that info too with known sighting points retained.  I am remembering some of the earliest Missouri researchers I read about that used old mailboxes as dropboxes and had interactions within.  Edited to add:  Thanks for your huge input on the SSR database @BobbyO as it is obtainable data for all that can remember the password, lol!

Edited February 1, 2023 by bipedalist

[Backdoc]

15 hours ago, hiflier said:

I have a friend who has argued in favor of a hibernation hypothesis. Maybe, since we are in chronic speculation mode, we should look a bit closer at that concept. This creature is different in nearly every respect when it comes to pigeon-holing it into the Ape or Human camp. That is to say, what would be so bad about adding on one more out-of-the-normal-primate characteristic? Hibernation. Could answer more than one question about winter survival in brutal temperatures and snow conditions, food supply, lack of tracks in snow, or only rare tracks in snow, and a bunch of other problems concerning the current (and past) winter discussions.

 

Hibernation. with an occasional rousing for whatever reason. So. Why not hibernation? Just because it's likened to a primate doesn't rule it out. It would just be one more odd thing about the Sasquatch should it exist. I mean, it's broken so many "rules" already, right? So why not that rule as well.

 

It's on the table.....

 

 

 

Personal opinion here from a city slicker:  I do not think Bigfoot -should it exist- would be any different in most aspects to some ape in a zoo.   That is, Bigfoot doesn't hibernate.  I could be completely wrong.  But, when we need to add more and more unlikely things on the scale to make our theory work, then it probably doesn't work.  The truth should generally fall into place as I see it pretty easily.

 

Places that have real winter have the cold to deal with and everything that means.  There are not any berries growing.  Outdoor food sources are harder to come by.  Snow falls.  There are tracks of many other animals out there but somehow there are not many or any of Bigfoot.  What are the options:  1) Bigfoot does not live in these areas (for the reasons I just listed) or 2) Bigfoot would be one of the only primates who happens to hibernate.

 

Maybe we could even say for Bigfoot to exist in these winter spots Bigfoot would need to defy all expectations of other ape-like known animals and be able to hibernate.  How likely should that expectation be?

 

 

 

 

[hiflier]

That's why determining existence is, or should be, job #1. How that gets done would seem to be a very narrow path but the path is there for the taking for anyone serious about discovery. After discovery- hand everything over to science to do. What they do is far and away much more, and better, than any of us could accomplish- beyond say, an opportunity to conduct long term observation. And even then, private documentation, more than not, won't be believed. We all know HOW to do this discovery thing. All that's left is to simply do it.

[Huntster]

The hibernation question brings up the extremes of their reported habitat. The farther north and away from tidewater you go, the more hibernation is required. Even if we accept meat caching for winter like modern man (circa 4500 years ago to today), that would mean a semi-hibernation existence in the far north interiors.

 

Not so the coastline. The sea provides year round sustenance. 

[TGB]

So has any work been done with regards to reported sightings and descriptions given and whether the hair length or thickness changes depending on the seasons or environment. 

Most of this relies on witness observation of course and investorgator questions but has there not been hair samples collected?

And with regard to the hibernation theory or hypothesis perhaps we should always consider subterranean dwellings in general.

 

[hiflier]

Welcome to the Forum, TGB, and good thinking. If you had the tools, i.e. a dataset, meager as the reports may be that might be in it, would you be willing to assume the task? And yes, subterranean structures like lava tubes (lahars) in the PacNW and limestone tunnels and caves carved out by water, like in the Kiamichi hills and mountains in Oklahoma, composed of karst as well, have been discussed. But if the creature has not been proved to exist yet except for in stories and reports then its dwelling places in whatever season, along with proposed hair length variables according to season, while an interesting subject, it so far hasn't led to much. A member here, SWWASAS, has done quite a bit of research on lahars so he may have more to add on the subject.

[hiflier]

Good points Huntster

Edited February 2, 2023 by hiflier

[hiflier]

Okay, TGB, I was kinda joking there. Not about the geology but about the idea of seasonal hair length. While we see that characteristic on many animals both domestic and non-domestic we can actually observe animals going through changes in hair/fur length with many having what are called guard hair undercoats. What we don't know about Sasquatch sightings is whether or not sighting reports are coming in from the same animal through the different seasons of the year., although a couple of these things have had some historical nicknames, like "Yellow Top" over in the eastern Upstate NY/VT region.

 

Knowing whether or not the same creature was being observed throughout the year in a location that had wide seasonal swings of temperature and maybe snowfall amounts could answer the variability in hair length question. And while the conclusion that Sasquatch hair grows longer/thicker seems logical, I think we're pretty far away from being able to know for sure. Other than that, witness reports sometimes say hair is longer on the head, some say shorter.

Edited February 2, 2023 by hiflier

[TGB]

I am sure there are many that would be better at that task then myself. 

In regards to the BF phenomenon 

Where are the datasets?

Reports are filed every day across this country are they not?

Trigger alert here....

How has walking in the woods in the dark -  banging on trees and hooting

Just to hear a twig snap become the go to scientific method that has countless TV personalities exclaiming "welp that is proof enough for me". 

Seems to me there is plenty of reason for the ever growing distrust of the bfro.

[hiflier]

38 minutes ago, TGB said:

I am sure there are many that would be better at that task then myself.

 

Maybe. And maybe not

 

38 minutes ago, TGB said:

In regards to the BF phenomenon 

Where are the datasets?

 

The SSR here on the Forum has nearly all of the past and current BFRO report data including John Green's, free for the researcher in you
 

38 minutes ago, TGB said:

Reports are filed every day across this country are they not?

 

Yes, nearly every day.

 

38 minutes ago, TGB said:

Trigger alert here....

How has walking in the woods in the dark -  banging on trees and hooting

Just to hear a twig snap become the go to scientific method that has countless TV personalities exclaiming "welp that is proof enough for me".

 

It's not the go to scientific method. Until this creature scientifically steps out of the mist of myth then those methods are no better than calling out, "Here Bigfoot, Bigfoot, Bigfoot." TV shows are about public entertainment. And even though those types of shows have raised awareness of the subject they have done serious researchers more harm than good.  Personally? in ten years of my own research I have never howled or tree knocked. My thoughts about it are that IF this creature is out there as a predator at whatever level then it has preyed on animals for centuries. It goes to the idea that if prey know the creature is in the area because it howls and tree knocks, then they will be stressed out.

 

But, if it doesn't exist, and we STILL go out and do those things, it would only stress animals out for no good reason. It just doesn't seem like the right thing for us to be doing IMHO.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by hiflier

[TGB]

I do need to dig in to the SSR here.

Any tips or tricks you care to share to get me started.

[hiflier]

Not really. To tell you the truth I have rarely used it. My reasons for that are varied but the main one is that it doesn't have the information I'm looking for that will get me to the level I've been trying to reach in this Sasquatch business. And while this won't sit well with some, the only real road for me is outside the scope of this Forum. Mainly because the BFF lacks active US or state forestry personnel, people from F&W, Park Service, Department of Agriculture, or any other entity that knows the truth of what's going on.

 

So does the creature exist....or not exist? Someone has the official answer to that and they are not here. Why AREN'T they here? It seems strange, but if the Sasquatch exists then we aren't allowed to officially know about them. But if they DON'T exist? Well, it would seem we aren't allowed to know that either. It's risky but my aim to get a definitive answer on that. What I DO know right now, though, is that the answer isn't found in the SSR, the books, the footprint casts, the documentaries, conferences and the speakers at those conference, or anywhere else believers normally tread. In all honesty, what's left to pursue leaves little to the imagination. That kind of pursuit can also have a tendency to be isolating. But it's okay, living in Maine in winter I've gotten used to it.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by hiflier