Cameras and Guns may just be the one reason we can't see more of them

[Marty]

So, I was discussing animal cognition with a friend of mine who works at a Zoo, Dallas zoo to be precise and while on the topic of mirror tests and self-awareness, he mentioned the fact that some of the staff there will go down and draw in a sketchbook with them and the Gorillas love it, they'll come up to her and socialize and get excited to see the drawings. 

 

However, when a phone is pulled out they instinctively turn their backs to everyone, as if in protest. It's pretty deliberate. So my thing is, I wonder if this is a common occurrence and how often do BFs see a camera and associate it with a gun or something, because you're aiming something at them while they don't have a clue what it is.

 

I dunno, food for thought but I found the whole thing very interesting. 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Marty

[norseman]

I am sure there is a real distrust of technology. In primitive human tribes it can get you killed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

[monitorman]

Absolutely !! "they" know what guns are and what they can do....to the wildlife (and maybe to them too) but a camera, maybe the new one with all electronics they get (like the trailcam)...but an old 16mm...not sure. FWIW

[Marty]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

I am sure there is a real distrust of technology. In primitive human tribes it can get you killed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese

I've heard this once before, I remember there are some tribes that think taking photos is akin to stealing your soul. 

[norseman]

41 minutes ago, Marty said:

I've heard this once before, I remember there are some tribes that think taking photos is akin to stealing your soul. 

Or your running around with bic lighters, digital cameras and hydrogen peroxide like some sort of witch doctor and their crops fail. So they immediately connect you to some random event you had no part of. And not in a good way.

 

Look at the Salem witch hunts! This is fairly recent western civilization. 
 

If we are being watched from the shadows by cryptic hominids? Undoubtedly we are part of their mythos. Just like a Bear or Cougar would be. Just like Native American myths about Sasquatch and even the different types.

[7.62]

There must be more to it because they also avoid trail cams that can be out for months at a time . I have had black bears knock a couple of trail cams off a tree but it was more like curiosity of them seeing something attached  on the tree .  I know for a fact crows can scatter if they are in a field when you drive in if they see you pull out anything that looks like a long gun.

Edited February 10, 2023 by 7.62

[Marty]

There's gotta be something to it, it would not surprise me if the entirety of the species in NA has some kind of PTSD from early settlers decimating the wildlife populations, and ofc getting shot at and killed. So with anything "aiming" at them, triggers this kind of avoidance response, cameras included, for all they know it might be some fancy new weapon. 

[Twist]

We are so many years removed from when settlers would have been decimating the species.  We would be talking about more culture than an animal would have if they still have oral history of this happening. So how close would they be to us then on the tree of life?    

[norseman]

4 hours ago, Twist said:

We are so many years removed from when settlers would have been decimating the species.  We would be talking about more culture than an animal would have if they still have oral history of this happening. So how close would they be to us then on the tree of life?    

Much closer to us than a Chimp. Which is 98.9% the same? (I think)

[Doodler]

Then having generational trauma caused by humans is an interesting concept. I might even call it genetic memory.

 

Any of them that buddied up to us, or even ignores us, died of disease or violence at a rate sufficient to cut off that line of DNA so much so that the only survivors are those who avoided us like the plague instinctually.

 

I feel like we have those same instincts about them. And I feel we are just as genetically encoded against them as they are genetically encoded against us.

 

Don't believe me? The rumble from a big cat can set your hair on end for a reason.

 

[norseman]

2 minutes ago, Doodler said:

Then having generational trauma caused by humans is an interesting concept. I might even call it genetic memory.

 

Any of them that buddied up to us, or even ignores us, died of disease or violence at a rate sufficient to cut off that line of DNA so much so that the only survivors are those who avoided us like the plague instinctually.

 

I feel like we have those same instincts about them. And I feel we are just as genetically encoded against them as they are genetically encoded against us.

 

Don't believe me? The rumble from a big cat can set your hair on end for a reason.

 

I certainly believe there is something in the human psyche that fears ape men.

[Marty]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

I certainly believe there is something in the human psyche that fears ape men.

I suppose it's this, does the fear of ape men stem from those "others" or are we such a small and vulnerable species, that we view anything superior to us, physically, as a threat and decided to exterminate our ancestors unanimously based upon pure survival instincts.

[Marty]

2 hours ago, Doodler said:

Then having generational trauma caused by humans is an interesting concept. I might even call it genetic memory.

 

Any of them that buddied up to us, or even ignores us, died of disease or violence at a rate sufficient to cut off that line of DNA so much so that the only survivors are those who avoided us like the plague instinctually.

 

I feel like we have those same instincts about them. And I feel we are just as genetically encoded against them as they are genetically encoded against us.

 

Don't believe me? The rumble from a big cat can set your hair on end for a reason.

 

Morphic resonance comes to mind, genetic memories/habits passed down from generations before. It would explain their unique shyness. But I could be entirely wrong about it who knows.

 

About your big cat comment, I agree, even a milisecond big blur triggers a predatory fear response because yeah historically we were major prey items for those animals, which is why we still have such  huge fear for those animals, same goes for Sasquatch presumably.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Marty

[norseman]

8 minutes ago, Marty said:

I suppose it's this, does the fear of ape men stem from those "others" or are we such a small and vulnerable species, that we view anything superior to us, physically, as a threat and decided to exterminate our ancestors unanimously based upon pure survival instincts.

I think we were anything but small and vulnerable. We were smart, cunning and organized in large groups. We won. But battling cousins was a deadly game. There were casualties. 

[Marty]

8 minutes ago, norseman said:

I think we were anything but small and vulnerable. We were smart, cunning and organized in large groups. We won. But battling cousins was a deadly game. There were casualties. 

Very much so, ain't doubting our intelligence we were smart as Hell and there's a reason we came out as top dog. My thing is that, because we are the victors the survivors of those wars must've carried a deep sense of sorrow and fear of us and thus continues to this day.

This sounds silly, because there are connations attached to it, but I really am beginning to think they are a kind of peoples that we left in the past. Not saying they're humans, they're not...I mean we often think how close the known Apes are to us, speech really is the only barrier that seperates us from them....food for thought I guess.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Marty