norseman Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 https://www.themeateater.com/conservation/wildlife-management/biologists-unravel-the-mysterious-case-of-the-hanging-fawn?fbclid=IwAR2N8kkh3DtUfUIdbAZaAbMTbKgvO9PyicLblgQLcmUD-hBpoFicmlSpikI_aem_AVcrcSSFmAFKdO_yZ81mc6johp7uZrlXhCvEhKi8VH59WZa4kI4XBsI_6KqjmD3bNsU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7.62 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Sounds like bobcat claw marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieFoot Posted July 27, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 27, 2023 It's an interesting pic. Up a tree is one place you don't expect to see deer but I've seen a couple of articles with pics of this same thing. Mountain lions are usually the prime suspect. Here is one from New York. https://huntdrop.com/drop/a-deer-mystery-never-solved 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalWitness Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Mountain lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 8 hours ago, 7.62 said: Sounds like bobcat claw marks I would have to see it to believe it. I had hounds and Bobcats don’t really tree. They stay on the ground and use their small bodies to get into tight places the dogs cannot go. Rocks, hollow logs, dead fall, brush piles. It’s way more effective as well. The houndsmen cannot get a shot on em. Not saying a Bobcat won’t tree, but they are what 30 lbs? Hauling a fawn straight up a 15 foot perch is no small task. 8 hours ago, OkieFoot said: It's an interesting pic. Up a tree is one place you don't expect to see deer but I've seen a couple of articles with pics of this same thing. Mountain lions are usually the prime suspect. Here is one from New York. https://huntdrop.com/drop/a-deer-mystery-never-solved Mine was in Wisconsin. Not any cougars in Wisconsin is there? I don’t see fawns in trees here? But our trees here are not usually helpful unless it’s a school marm ( split top ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalWitness Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 I have absolutely NO CLUE why, but there is some concerted effort to dispel the FACT that cougars are pretty much all over the US. Its really insane, TBH. They are in all the great plains states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 27, 2023 Author Share Posted July 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said: I have absolutely NO CLUE why, but there is some concerted effort to dispel the FACT that cougars are pretty much all over the US. Its really insane, TBH. They are in all the great plains states. I remember there was a South Dakota Cougar that got hit by a car in New York. But that’s ONE animal. I’m not going to take hounds to Wisconsin or New York and run Cougar all winter…… I would be very very lucky to cut one set of tracks in 10 winters. Maybe in 100 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieFoot Posted July 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2023 16 hours ago, norseman said: I would have to see it to believe it. I had hounds and Bobcats don’t really tree. They stay on the ground and use their small bodies to get into tight places the dogs cannot go. Rocks, hollow logs, dead fall, brush piles. It’s way more effective as well. The houndsmen cannot get a shot on em. Not saying a Bobcat won’t tree, but they are what 30 lbs? Hauling a fawn straight up a 15 foot perch is no small task. Mine was in Wisconsin. Not any cougars in Wisconsin is there? I don’t see fawns in trees here? But our trees here are not usually helpful unless it’s a school marm ( split top ). That's the key question when a deer is found up a tree in an eastern state; Are there mountain lions in that particular state? I looked up mountain lions in New York when I first saw the photo from NY, and there wasn't a breeding population. The article said any sightings would very likely have been of a solitary individual wandering through. I'd bet that's how it is for all eastern states, except for Florida. No sustainable population, only some that wander around and maybe gets spotted on rare occasions. There was an article in the Tulsa paper a couple of years ago about mountain lions in OK; there had been about 15 or so sightings over the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyzonthropus Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I'd think that with the exploding deer populations back east and the predator vacuum that caused that, there are going to be predators moving back in. Look at the spread of coyotes. And when you "know" that cougars arent in a given a state, you're not looking for them, and probably dismissing any potential evidence simply because "they aren't there!" But cougar are pretty ninja and can have a fairly big range, so it's not like they're sitting in the same acre month in month out. One might even attribute kills to sasquatch before considering the " obviously absent" mountain lions. I bet they're a good deal more widespread than is usually acknowledged by fish and game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyzonthropus Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Did anyone else see that pic of a moose wedged up in a tree. Farther up than you'd think a moose could get on its own. I don't recall what happened with it, or if it was even still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 This is a few blocks from me. It's miles away from any non-suburban countryside. Omaha has a history of mountain lions within the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 28, 2023 Author Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 hours ago, guyzonthropus said: I'd think that with the exploding deer populations back east and the predator vacuum that caused that, there are going to be predators moving back in. Look at the spread of coyotes. And when you "know" that cougars arent in a given a state, you're not looking for them, and probably dismissing any potential evidence simply because "they aren't there!" But cougar are pretty ninja and can have a fairly big range, so it's not like they're sitting in the same acre month in month out. One might even attribute kills to sasquatch before considering the " obviously absent" mountain lions. I bet they're a good deal more widespread than is usually acknowledged by fish and game. There is no breeding population of Cougars in Wisconsin. Could there be a few Cougars on a long trek there? Of course. As I stated before I read where a South Dakota cat ended getting hit by a car in New York State…… https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/cougar I find it hard to believe a 30 lbs Bobcat drug the fawn up into the tree. A Cougar could easily do it. If there is one around to do it. NE Washington is thick with Cougar, but you rarely see them. And the only reliable way to hunt them is with hounds in winter. You drive roads for miles and miles and miles looking for cat tracks, sometimes we used a snowmobile too. And when you find a decent sized cat you turn your dogs loose on it and prepare for the hike of your life. Compare that to black bear hunting with hounds? You cannot drive a 100 yards on any logging road without your strike dog going nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalWitness Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 10 hours ago, OkieFoot said: That's the key question when a deer is found up a tree in an eastern state; Are there mountain lions in that particular state? I looked up mountain lions in New York when I first saw the photo from NY, and there wasn't a breeding population. The article said any sightings would very likely have been of a solitary individual wandering through. I'd bet that's how it is for all eastern states, except for Florida. No sustainable population, only some that wander around and maybe gets spotted on rare occasions. There was an article in the Tulsa paper a couple of years ago about mountain lions in OK; there had been about 15 or so sightings over the last 20 years. https://www.ksnt.com/news/kansas/mountain-lion-sightings-increasing-in-kansas-heres-where/ 50 sightings in KS in the last 15 years. This is a state with NO mountain lions, allegedly. Someone should tell these cats they aren't allowed to be there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalWitness Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 2:09 PM, norseman said: I remember there was a South Dakota Cougar that got hit by a car in New York. But that’s ONE animal. I’m not going to take hounds to Wisconsin or New York and run Cougar all winter…… I would be very very lucky to cut one set of tracks in 10 winters. Maybe in 100 years? Norseman, where do you live? I want to go lion hunting with you, no joke. Scientists say no breeding population - if a cat in heat meets a male, I hope they know the no breeding rules These cats are no doubt in these areas. In very low numbers, but they are there. Why do you think some states claim they aren't there when they are? Did you know that there are wild jaguars in the United States? This is a documented fact: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2022/08/05/rare-jaguar-el-jefe-roamed-arizona-spotted-across-border/10251057002/ What about alligators in Kansas, Illinois and Missouri? Its also happened, and not all of them are "released pets that got too big" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted July 29, 2023 Author Share Posted July 29, 2023 32 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said: Norseman, where do you live? I want to go lion hunting with you, no joke. Scientists say no breeding population - if a cat in heat meets a male, I hope they know the no breeding rules These cats are no doubt in these areas. In very low numbers, but they are there. Why do you think some states claim they aren't there when they are? Did you know that there are wild jaguars in the United States? This is a documented fact: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2022/08/05/rare-jaguar-el-jefe-roamed-arizona-spotted-across-border/10251057002/ What about alligators in Kansas, Illinois and Missouri? Its also happened, and not all of them are "released pets that got too big" NE Washington. My blue state in its infinite wisdom banned hound hunting years ago. I gave my hounds to two Indian kids across the river. My female outstruck everyone of his dogs on top of the box. And her brother literally latched onto a bears rump while it was climbing a tree and was attempting to rip it off the tree. He used to hang from raccoon drags I would tie into a tree. Great great fun. Those dogs were as dedicated as my mules were! Your preaching to the choir on everything else. I know that animals are reclaiming their range. And I know we have Jags in the southwest. Yes. But a large cougar needs to be killing about a deer a week. Your gonna notice if he is around. And the other thing is Ive never seen a Cougar hang a fawn in a tree. They will eat 20 lbs of meat in just one feeding. That Fawn should have been a quick snack. Yes a Cougar has the power to haul it up there. Easy. It should also have the power to go back and get it whenever. So why not? I promise one thing? Coyotes did NOT scare it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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