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It’s the Philip Morris - Bob H. Recreation from 20 years ago. It’s an abomination. Again, it’s not that Roger was a con man. He was. It’s not that Bob G. gets dates wrong or facts wrong from 60 years ago. He does. The 800 lbs Gorilla in the room is Patty walking across that creek bed. Which 20 years ago they failed spectacularly to recreate.🤷‍♂️

Depends on her mood I suppose lol. I'm currently typing this one handed after testing the theory with my wife 😂.

Getting my overlanding/exploring rig more capable. While not nearly as awesome or capable as Norseman's Ram, it can go on some roads that stock pickups might not be able to. Just a leveling kit with 37s, a 13.5k winch, and beefy bumper.

Here is the PGF section link: For newer members, Kit was a long time and strongly anti-PGF skeptic on here some time back. His postings can still be found in the PGF section if anyone is interested in his comments. I saw those comments a few days ago when all of this broke. I guess he is still around... Welcome back SW! Supposedly, Bill Munns has seen it, but I do not know that to be a fact. I am very interested in his opinion of this.

I don't know. I will likely gut the entire rear box and build it up from there. But that will take a ton of time. And I don't have a shop. First steps will be to do maintenance on the rig and do some minor corrosion repair on the aluminum. Going to buff and wax the exterior, detail the interior, and sell the Stryker system. Once I get the rig cleaned up and repair all the little things, then I will evaluate it's retail value vs. cost/time of converting it to a class C motorhome. I'm also planning on building an RV pad and snow shed, along with a smaller shop, on some property in Idaho. I may want to just focus on that project since this summer is going to be hell in the Idaho mountains due to the low snowpack and winter that never came. The camping season is going to be about a month or so before they shut down the woods and ban campfires due to extreme fire danger. But there are some amazing ambulance conversions out there!

I am not a huge fan of Money maker. But I think he is right, it comes down to the suit. And as I said before we shall see if it stacks up.

This is a really fascinating video, thanks so much for posting! It's kinda nitpicking, but I think it's an important point that it's not really a 'debate' as no one is trying to 'win' or score cheap points, it's very much a discourse and that is so much more productive. I feel like a lot of these discussions turn into debates where people compete against each other to try and 'win' the argument and at the end of the day everyone loses. For full disclosure, I am sceptical by nature. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in ghosts and I don't believe aliens have visited earth. On the topic of bigfoot or sasquatch I'm very much torn as when I see the 'Patty' film it just looks real and genuine to me. That looks like a massive, weighty, bipedal ape that is definitely not a human in a suit and moves with a real looking cadence. However, there are so many questions surrounding other evidence sources such as testimony, hair samples, lack of body, lack of better definition visual record etc. As I said, I'm actually really torn on this subject as it's a bit of a Occam's razor to me: Is it simpler for me to explain away the lack of a cadaver, lack of fossil record, lack of good visual record or is it easier for me to explain away the 'Patty' film which I think looks very much real. I just can't explain away the film, I've tried to rationalise it and have read Mr. Munn's fascinating book and I can see no way realistically in 1967 that a couple of Cowboys pulled that off as a hoax, I think they filmed a real live animal there but that brings up just so many questions....................

It’s 2026 and people are still desperately trying to discredit the film. So far all attempts have failed as none of them address the issues that exist with replicating the film subject with 1960’s costume technology.

Such surely brings into question any conclusions our new member draws.

I volunteer to perform a blindfolded feel test on any purported Patty "suit" and live female test subject.

Interesting, as even Kitakaze is suggesting it's the Ahtanum Valley footage, which is discussed I believe in Greg Long's book, so it seems Joshua is at odds with Marq Evans on this. Okay - the breast thing is a bit suspicious, but we can't tell until we see those boobs.

Lots of good channels. I particularly like Studying Sasquatch, Hellbent Holler, and Small Town Monsters.

Got the emergency lights hooked up. Neighbor kids love them, lol.

Moose stand 7 to 8 feet tall at the shoulder, are 9 to 10 feet long, weigh 1,200 to 1,800 pounds and where there is a high concentration of them, there are still large amounts of ripe growth available to them and other animals. They run up to 35 miles per hour. Brown bears are 4 to 5 feet tall at the shoulder and 8 to 10 feet tall when standing on their hind legs. They weigh up to 1,500 pounds and can run 35 miles per hour and can kill many moose, caribou, elk and deer in a year. So, I don't find those descriptions of sasquatches ridiculously far fetched, just somewhat exaggerated due to witness perception.

One of the questions regarding the PGF is how was it that Patty could leave a deeper impression in the sandbar than Roger's and Bob's horses. There was well-known poster here on BFF who did an experiment on a sandy beach and posted his results (and video or pictures I think). It turned out that his foot impression was deeper than a horse whose rider had it walk near his tracks. I was flummoxed how a heavy horse on small hooves would not be deeper that a much lighter person with larger feet. The moral of that story is that the mechanics of a foot's movement are far more important than the weight of the person/animal making the impression. I wish I could remember the BBF poster's name but cannot. It was a while ago.

Oops, wrong spot. Preview, lol.

I'm partial to Cabin in the Woods. And a close second is Hellbent Holler.

The beauty of the PGF is that, it doesn’t provide any proof that Sasquatch is real, but it can’t be disproven either. The film is inconclusive. And that’s what makes it great. Both sides can only make claims. Nothing so far has been definitive

Yeah, I’m still confused how the image above is supposed to disprove the PGF?

So allegedly Patterson burnt the patty suit in a barrel which took 30 minutes but didn’t burn the rehearsal footage.. how convenient!

So I am able to collect hairs from them on a pretty repeatable basis over time, and am interested in starting a routine of getting these hairs I collect collected in the best way possible and also getting them tested(of course). I can likely fund the effort myself. I work a lot, this is a very busy time for me, but would like to get this effort rolling. Anyone that has some pointers on how to proceed can PM me or preferably just reply here.

The only thing that's been proven in this thread is that you are a fool.

It’s over for Patty but there was Bigfoot before and after so Bigfoot is not dead.

Hairymanroad, a YouTuber, went to SXSW to watch the second screening. Based off of his, and one other individual who went to a screening from the BF community the 40sec of 1966 film, in the words of Jeff Meldrum, "looked like a test run". Then goes on to describe how "it was "patty" but slightly different, a different guy in the suit. The lines were all the same." It's not looking great guys. Steenberg, and small handful of others, seem to have been told the same message from Meldrum starting in April of 25. "Something big is coming in relation to the PG-film". I want to see the film too, they are shopping around for a market release but according to the director they have two more film festivals to attend before anything like that will happen.

Pre-Clovis? Not so fast. Interesting discussion regarding whether the Monte Verde site, in Chile, is truly Pre-Clovis. Monte Verde is a linchpin site in the Pre-Clovis theory debate. The video author interviews a paleoarchaeologist who has submitted new research disputing the accepted age of the human artifacts found at Monte Verde.

Appreciate that! Thanks, man The Half Inch Wrench guys are good. I always enjoy Small Town Monsters stuff.

Seeing is believing I guess, I will withhold judgement til I see it.

I am not killing the messenger. You were cherry picking some “gotcha moment” Rogan video short against Meldrum. Which is a crock. It doesn’t even remotely represent what Meldrum said in the full interview let alone years of conferences and his BOOK!? Really? Have you read it? So hence forth I will be scrutinizing you based on this slanderous event you perpetrated on this forum. Sorry.

Kind of like Meldrum’s “confession”??? Give me a break.

No. We have no body. Therefore we cannot rule out option A. No film includes a body for science to poke. You’re taking Meldrum out of context there. It’s cheap. A three second gotcha doesn’t erase his years of research on the subject. Or Bill Munns for that matter….. This might work on Reddit or some Facebook page. But it won’t work here. 🙄

Also apparently Bob is interviewed in the documentary. another quote from the director. "Yes, Bob saw the new footage and gives a very compelling answer to it. People will need to use their own judgment on what and when he knew."

from the *EDIT* Director of the film.

I don't know who Bart is, nor do I care, but his YT video revelation is a complete swing and miss. ::eye roll::

Allegedly in the film there is a "rehearsal" of sorts. those who have seen the footage cant tell if it was part of the original movie Roger was going to make or actually a rehearsal for bluff creek. It is supposed to start streaming this Thursday, time will tell.

If they have located footage that Roger took of a person in a suit walking through woods - then aside from it being a valuable find for the archives: a) we already knew a drama documentary was being made - this has always been known since the PGF was released - no change b) it would be entirely expected that there would need to be such footage to put in the drama documentary. It would be pretty difficult to do it without - no change c) if it is indeed the Ahtanum footage, as Kitakaze states in my comment above - it appears to match the timelines of the drame documentary footage, not the PGF - no change d) if it is the Harry Kemble memo footage (whether or not that is the same as the Ahtanum footage), then Harry's memo makes clear that this has no similarity with the PGF in terms of filming timeline, camera, lens, filmstock, style or processing - no change If there is no direct link to the PGF then they are merely selling us something we already have in a new shiny sensationalist wrapper. Given the rumours of the film maker and/or Clint Patterson pursuing people in their 80's and 90's - Pat Patterson and Bob Gimlin for confessions, it suggests no link and more than a hint of desperation to me.

I don't understand your concern about someone "gutting" the PGF. It stood the test of time here on BFF under an electron-microscope type analysis and it is entirely irrelevant who Patterson and Gimlin were personally. Go ahead and try to destroy their reputation. It doesn't change the fact that a video is out there every aspect of which has been analyzed here at BFF over the many years. In my opinion, anyone who wishes to claim the PGF was a hoax has to specifically disprove Gigantofootecus' ASH ratio calculations and Patty's forearm ratio. Not knowing those two issues intimately, much less at all, tells me everything I need to know about someone's ability to intelligently discuss the PGF. Moreover, have they read Bill's Munn's works, which, in my opinion, are a veritable treatise on the PGF, or even know who he is? There are many people who have opinions about a lot of things they possess little or no knowledge. Let them come here and debate both critical, and tangential, issues of the PGF itself.

I just came across this BFRO report: https://www.bfro.net/gdb/show_report.asp?id=79845 Short story shorter: 3 witnesses reported seeing a Bigfoot in Oklahoma walking off a powerline easement from more than 1,500 feet away. I'm not a field researcher but 1,500 feet away, across a river, windy conditions, late afternoon, and down a powerline cut area do not seem like good conditions for clear observation. Any researchers on here who are comfortable with BFRO referring to this as a "Triple A" sighting? If so, why? I'm not challenging what the witnesses reported seeing. I just think from an evidence perspective that a Class A designation is a bit ambitious.

Okay, I was wondering why you were bidding on an old ambulance!! Thank you for explaining that right up front. Your conversion sounds amazing; hope to see pictures of it.

Just got back from a 3200-mile road trip from Washington to the AZ/Mexico border and back. I won an auction for a 2009 IH ambulance in Marysville, WA so had to take a sidetrack to there and pick it up. Plan is to convert it into an RV for exploring the Idaho woods. I would have loved to find one in 4x4, but realized most of my weekend trips didn't really need 4wd. The new rig is very beefy and not in too bad of shape. Going to strip the interior and build a log cabin-themed interior complete with little wood stove.

Thanks for the info. I haven't delved into it, but I have one question, if anyone knows an answer: Is Kitikaze (old BFF skeptic) involved with the latest attempt to disprove PGF?

Hi Skinwalker13, Yes, indeed. I was following the discussion on Reddit last night, and contributing to it. See my post from a while ago. This seems like the debunking doc. There is or was a 3 hour one in the pipeline that was staking the claim for authenticity too. I eagerly await that, and hope it has not been halted by the sad passing of Dr Meldrum. It may not be quite the death blow to the PGF that it's being talked up to be though. Being here in the UK, I haven't seen this yet - but from the descriptions that have been posted on Reddit, I believe the ''footage reveal' they are talking about sounds a lot like the footage mentioned in the Harry Kemble memo, which if true would be kind of neat as this has never seen the light of day probably since Harry reported seeing it. I wrote a comment saying as much on Reddit yesterday. They are calling the footage a 'woodsey dress rehearsal' for the PGF. The film makers and hardened sceptics will no doubt puff this up for all it's worth as some kind of smoking gun, which if it is the Kemble footage, it most certainly won't be. As far as I know there is no connection between the Kemble footage and the PGF, apart from Roger - but they were filmed in different locations months apart using different cameras, filmstock and techniques and in wildly different circumstances.

In my opinion, the gears have shifted, the VAST majority of folks in the "community" are no longer interested in finding answers, they are here for the pop culture phenomena that is "bigfoot". For that reason, forums full of information and data points are of little interest when youtube other social platforms are spoon feeding them. these kinds of spaces are for the dedicated at this point. what they are dedicated to is another question lol. finding answers? their skepticism ? their belief? I've dropped back over the last 2 years myself due to other projects and other research opportunities that yield quantifiable data. Those other fields feel far more rewarding because i can actually "bring it home" so to speak. as mentioned by @Scratchy pushing it on a subreddit may help boost registration and activity over here.

Sasquatch Theory and Half Inch Wrecking Crew. Oh, and Outlaw Country.

We are working on that currently.

This interesting TV special aired in Sacramento, California in 1975; I found it on YouTube at

Looks really capable. Are those running boards, or rock sliders under the door sills? My H3 came with what looked like sliders, but were really only cosmetic, as I managed to crush one on the first trail I drove the day after I bought it.

That poster was my friend Bill Miller, who unfortunately passed away 6 or 7 years ago. That test was done on the shore of Harrison Lake, here in BC. He is sorely missed in our local research circle.

Honorable mention for Creek Devil, he's a great voice with consistently solid historical data.

I watch your reservoir videos on YouTube!

Interest in many things comes in waves, ebbs and flows. Is it possible your time of joining the forum coincided with one of the peaks? I know this to be true of my own. Thinking of a parallel .. no athlete runs 4 minute miles 7 days a week. It is true of our interest here. I think the period we are in now with less interest, less bright shiny things to draw our attention, is more representative of bigfootery over the long haul. There is also a change of medium when it comes to information exchange. There are TONS of small bigfoot groups on facebook. Lot of people trying to monetize their interest which I think distracts from the larger communities like this one. There is not much to do but get out there and do your own thing in the woods.