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I'm 2 weeks late getting this posted but ive been swimming in busy work and follow ups. Below is the report as it was sent in to us at the West Virginia High Strangeness Collective. The gentlemen who has this encounter is a friend of mine from one of my other hobbies, field herpetology, and up until this point had joked on occasion about bigfoot. His words are in "--" and the investigation notes follow. I'll attach pictures of the findings velow as well, this was by far one of the most exciting days of my life. "I share this event completely aware of the backlash, and ridicule I will receive. The day of April 12, 2020 had weather conditions shaping up to be perfect for my favorite hobby, amateur herpetology. So like every spring night when the rain is falling heavy I decided it would be a great night to cruise the roads and document the species of reptiles and amphibians crawling on the floor of a local state forest, and like normal an unnamed passenger (at this time) opted to cruise the backroads with me on the search. We arrived at the state forest a little after 8pm, the sun not yet fallen, and the skies not quite dark enough for the animals I was searching for to be emerging from their hiding places yet. So, we took a drive through the park to kill time, look for other interesting animals and wait for the sun to fully set. Nothing unusual was happening. The frogs were starting to call as the sun fell behind the mountain and night began to fall. The birds chirping fell quiet with the sunset. The deer were retreating from the wet valley I was intending to search that night. Absolutely nothing unusual for the area I frequent on a regular basis. In an average week I visit this same location 5-6 times to document any new egg masses, the species I observe, or anything else I may find interesting at the given time. I have observed and heard coyotes and owls in this valley on several occasions, and have become familiar with their behavior and noises as a result. This average night was about to take a terrifying turn I never imagined. In this particular forest I have a handful of areas that host great habitats for documenting a wide variety of species. I made my way to the first vernal pool area I wanted to check in the flooded valley wetland that night. I exited my vehicle, the time now approaching 9pm, and I observed a toad on the gravel parking area. I decided to document the first species of the night. I stopped, got my phone out of my pocket and snapped the first picture of the adventure. That would end up being the only explainable thing I encountered in that valley that night… as I took two to three more steps, just passed the giant rocks that prevent vehicles from driving into the open area of the woods, towards the first vernal pool I was intending to shine with my flashlight, I heard a groan that I have never heard in these woods before. This groan was deep, almost sounding human or at least primate in nature, clearly agitated, and extremely too close to where I was currently standing. I had clearly interrupted something, and it was furious about it. Something was in this valley with me, and I had no identification for the sounds it was expressing towards my presence. The chills that shot down my spin and covered my body was like nothing I have experienced in my life. I looked back to see the unnamed person with me void of color with eyes as large as I have ever seen on anyone. My first reaction was get back in the vehicle and try to make sense of what we clearly both just witnessed. What was a short distance back to the vehicle felt like an eternity carrying the fear that had consumed my body at this point. Merely thinking about that groan is enough to spark those same chills through my body. As we sat in the vehicle for what in reality was likely only a few seconds, but felt like minutes, asking each other what that noise was, a second, now closer, groan rang through that valley and the fear struck every molecule of my body again. This thing, whatever it was, was literally on top of us. My only mission at this point was to get the hell out of that valley, and my unnamed passenger expressed the same mission aloud. People often ask why there was no video, or picture, or recording of some kind in the age of everyone having a phone in their pocket, but after experiencing that sound, in near complete darkness minus my own lights, I can definitely understand why people just bolt. I lost all the preconceived ideas we all have that we would be the one with the guts to stick around to find out what just made that sound. I drove over an hour to search a completely different forest and wetland area for species that night because I no longer wanted to be in that area and sleep was sure to elude me for days after this unexplainable experience. After returning home that night and the following day I attempted to make sense of the sounds we witnessed. I messaged friends avid in the outdoors to jokingly tell them I heard a murder or a bigfoot last night, hoping for identification suggestions from anyone close to me that could give me an answer more reasonable than either of those ideas. Nothing. I researched large cats that are not supposed to be here, and those that are, nothing resembling that groan in felines I listened to. I researched coyote and wolf chatter, again nothing in the Canine world. I researched owls, raptors, bears, and once more nothing matched that bone chilling sound. I honestly hoped and waited for the news to report a body, seriously, I was just seeking answers at this point. I was admittedly becoming desperate for answers. Someone has heard this noise in these woods before. I couldn’t possibly be the only one. So I desperately contacted a friend of mine (he will be making his own posts about this event) highly interested and invested in the fields of cryptozoology, and the paranormal. Admittedly I made this contact in hopes to get an answer something along the lines of “that’s not a sound I’m aware of” much to my surprise he wanted to know more. Where did this happen? When did this happen? Can you tell me what you recall? I gave him the details of what I recalled, the above event, with the location in more detail, and the investigation was on. The details of his investigation are heavily documented in photograph and video. What he found matches almost too unbelievably perfect to the experience I described to him. I don’t want to go into detail of his side of documenting this event since he will do that better than I can. However, the evidence I received after he visited the site of my experience literally made my heart drop, I could feel the color once again leave my face. I’m still not sure what we heard in that valley that night, but what he uncovered leaves me completely unsettled about where the evidence appears to point. The only thing I’m sure of is whatever it was didn’t want to share that valley with us and it still gives me chills when I think about it. You can be the judge of the evidence for yourself. I won’t tell you what to believe, because I’m still unsure what to make of this myself." - Jon Tinney Field notes : Weather conditions have been in perfect to preserve physical evidence between now and the the sighting. Once I arrived on site, I located the vernal pool and immediatly noticed 2 footprints that were very deep in the substrate on the edge of the pool. As I navigated the game trail that lead around the pool I noticed a sapling broken at chest height, and twisted with a second break 18 inches above the first. Moving along the game trail I located a smaller game trail that made its way toward the area where i saw the initial prints. On this trail i found another foot print in the mixed soil and leaf litter. I marked that print with a glove and continued to the original set of prints that i noticed off the bat. As I nelt by the first two prints I heard a series of tree knocks from above me higher up the mountian. The series was in this pattern ***----** i find this inconsequential yet noteworthy. The first two prints were full of water, I documentdd them with pictures and video and moved toward the secondary track. While I was moving debris from the print to verify that it was castable I noticed an accompanying print that was the other foot completing a left and right set. I prepared the area as per Dr. Jeff Meldrum instructions in his Sasquatch field guide and poured the plaster casts using creek water and plaster of Paris. While i waited for these to dry i discovered additional 2 prints but didnt have enough plaster to cast these, they were also very shallow and would not have yeilded much of a cast sample. I documented them in photographs. There is about 7 miniutes of video footage that accompanies the investigation. The casts are now cleaned and pictures will be included, midtarsle breaks are present in both casts, the heels and midtarsle break are the most impressive features to these casts as the ground is very hard and the toes were not clear but were disernable . I tried to leave impressions by jumping up and down but was unable to make impressions that were as deep as the footprints. No hair samples to be found. When I showed the results to the witness they could not believe that the evidence corroborated their encounter. The subject was actually much closer to him durring the encounter after I showed him pictures of the area and where I was finding the trace evidence. The footprints were pointed in such a way by a tree that it would have been watching him and was actually within 50-75ft most of the encounter. The recovered casts measured at 14 1/2 inches long. A follow up site walk through was preformed with Dr. Russ Jones, he reviewed the casts as well. The exact location of the site will not be exposed as it is an active investigation area. I'll post more pictures tomorrow as I've reached a post/response limit for today 😆

I got my pics to load this morning. 1 - the 2 lakes 5000' below, 1 at the right edge and 1 at the left edge of the photo. 2 - still snow in the peaks above us 3 - salmonberry blooms 4 - skunk cabbage in the swamp 5 - my pic of CMKnight taking a pic of the lake

We got out yesterday to an area I've spent a good bit of time poking around and camping in. I had seen from sat imagery that it had a clearcut adjacent to the location where I had a rock thrown. Upon arriving I saw the imagery wasn't quite up to date, the cut extended right down to "my" spot and almost down to the stream I'd bushwhack along. This is just about where my truck was parked when i heard the rock go through the trees. It landed at what was once a poplar tree, now the stump visible dead ahead here: IMG_5259 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr And from further back up the old woods road: IMG_5258 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr Which we followed the remains of back to what has become a sizable pond, thanks to Castor Canadensis, finding tons of coyote and possibly cougar scat along with young moose tracks: IMG_5234 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr Passing the last remnants of Winter and some still intact 3rd or 4th growth: IMG_5251 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr At the beaver flowage, old road thoroughly flooded out by the dam: IMG_5237 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr Here we saw a partially submerged adult Bald Eagle, a soaring juvenile, a pair of Mallards, Belted Kingfisher, a troupe of Tree Swallows, a group of unidentified ducks, possibly Golden Eyes and heard Wood frogs, Spring Peepers and a lone Bullfrog: IMG_5238 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr From there down to the Lake where I've Winter camped and accessed the surrounding forest via the ice (which makes an amazing, deep groaning sound when cracking!) Nice old woods here: IMG_5270 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr IMG_5262 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr And further in along a narrow spur to a small pond that is a nice camp spot with decent habitat. With telltale signs of degenerate troglodyte activity in the form of wlmart buckets of human waste and TP tossed around. Man, I find that infuriating when people do that to places like this. walmarts are for shi***ng in, not here. #failed species. Anyway: IMG_5274 by LIght Pirate, on Flickr I hadn't been up there for a couple of years and wanted to check on things. We kept an eye out for tracks, saw a young moose, a porcupine and a muskrat but no signs of our quarry. There is a good sighting report from the mid 90's IIRC not far from any of these places. It's all good habitat and almost no one gets off the logging roads.

You can say that again!!!

OMG, I effing hate autocorrect. Gigantism. Big ass creatures. Fixed it. 😂 Thank you for making me laugh @hiflier and @BlackRockBigfoot ❤

Oops, sorry about the repeat, lol, I don't know what happened! Ah, geez. Well, it is true! 😂 Sorry for the repeat, I don't know what happened!

A most excellent initial report, Skinwalker13. Well written and appreciated. Plussed for your worthy contribution.

It does!! And it was actually about 10 liner miles from where I had my sighting in 2001. to set back and think that maybe, just maybe, that I my have cast one of the Sasquatch that I saw.... Its borderline emotional lol. In Kanawha County, near Boone County

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Trapper. There is a poster on another forum that I belong to that has mentioned his encounter in Utah several times over the past few years. While I do not know him personally, he does not seem to be interested in Bigfoot or the paranormal outside of his one encounter. His story has stayed consistent and never wavered for close to 15 years. His encounter took place near Midway, Utah...which I believe was is located in the Wasatch Mountain Range. I will cut and paste one of his posts detailing his encounter below. I have had several PMs asking me to give some additional details about our encounter so I'll post them here. I've posted them before but the get buried in the old posts. my wife, who was my fiance at the time, and I were driving around midway Utah (above Heber) late at night on a Friday looking for a cabin we had been invited to to spend the night with some friends. We got SUPER lost and were just driving around in the woods. I got kinda tired of driving around aimlessly and just decided to get out of there as fast as we could. I wend down a gully, came up the other side about 60 miles an hour and hit a sharp corner I didn't see coming, I slammed on the brakes and slid around the corner in the gravel, as soon as I cleared the corner, there was something HUGE standing in the middle of the road. I slammed on my brakes and slid to a stop. Standing right in front of us, in high beams, was the biggest humanoid I've ever seen. he had dropped into a crouch and half twisted to see us when we came flying around the corner. we'd clearly caught him off guard crossing the road. He was facing right to left and was sideways to us, slightly twisted back to face us. He was maybe 8-9 feet from my face in the high beams. I could clearly see his eyes, teeth, skin and hair. we locked gaze for a few seconds, and in those few seconds I can still remember the details I processed like it was yesterday. Long brown hair, fairly thick overall but very thin on and around the face. not a human face but not ape. the closest thing I can think of is the pictures of Neaderthal's in the National geographic. It looked a LOT more like us (humans) than an ape but the brow was heavy, very heavy jawline, flattened nose, high cheekbones, deep set eyes. The eyes were dark but hard to see the color because they were squinting in the light. the thing was frozen for a few seconds and then it slowly uncrouched just a little bit then took off across the road, three long bounds and then it leapt over this hedge of brush and scrub oak that was maybe seven feet high. It went over arms first, superman style, and never touched the bushes. the important parts of the encounter are: - this thing was 7 feet plus high. I would guess 7'2"-7'3". I can guarantee it's size within a couple of inches because at the time I was an offensive tackle at brigham young university. My best friend was (is) 6'8" and about 435. This thing was MUCH taller than Will. - it was physically enormous. The largest animal I've ever seen that wasn't a moose. it's biceps were literally the size of my thighs. At the time I was 6'5" and about 320. I have big thighs. It's biceps were that size. It's thighs were the size of my waist. I was about a 44" waist. - I have never seen anything move so fast in my life. After BYU, I went to the buffalo bills where I was the second team O tackle and I blocked Bruce Smith on a daily basis for the better part of a year. Bruce is the quickest human I have ever seen. It took me two weeks to even touch Bruce, let alone block him. This thing was easily 2x as fast/quick. I would guess this thing was pushing a 3.7 to 3.9 40 yard dash speed, maybe faster. It was hard to tell because it was so huge. It was so big it might have looked slower than it was moving. It covered an entire road and over some bushes in three steps. - I would guess it weighed 700+ lbs. It was simply massive. Still hard to believe even having seen it in very bright lights. as it ran off, I was terrified. There is something primal about looking at something so close to you that could *CLEARLY* destroy you in a thought. We were in a mazda 626, with an open sunroof, late at night, with a craptacular tanfoglio CZ75 9mm under the seat for protection. This thing could have ripped the roof off, and yanked us out and eaten us if it wanted to. I could not even talk. I was speechless. I finally decided I had hallucinated the entire episode and finally stammered out "did you see that?!" my wife, who had not breathed an iota in the brief time since we'd seen it could only reply "That was a BIGFOOT! Get us the he** out of here!" There was no thought of shooting it, it was too fast, too intelligent and frankly too scary. I floored the accelerator and didn't let up for a mile and a half until I almost wrapped around a tree on another blind corner. I still almost don't believe it sometimes, i have to check with the wife. I don't care if you or anyone else believes it. It simply doesn't matter to me. I can tell you that we were two newly wed, innocent mormon kids who have never had a drink, don't take drugs, and take honesty very seriously out for a drive and we saw a bigfoot. I have my theory as to who it was, and if I'm right, there IS only one of them. that would explain why there have never been bones. But I know what we saw that night, and it was a 7 foot plus, thousand pound animal who moved with the speed of an olympic runner, had a 45+ inch vert jump, a sub 4 second 40 time and moved like a ghost. I never heard a sound through the open window or sunroof over the ticking engine save the sound of the brush as he cleared it and a thump as he hit the ground on the other side. You may not believe in bigfoot, but there is at least one of them. Or there was in Midway Utah in the late summer of 1992. I am not sure why I tell people, as invariably people think you are insane, as I would if someone told me the same story, but it is the truth and I (an my wife) have incontrovertible proof for ourselves that there is at least one bigfoot.

Brief synopsis: I show that the film subject's upper leg length / height ratio is wildly outside the range of human proportions. This ratio is uniquely impossible to alter using prosthetics due to the upper leg being located between joints. Hence the ratio must be intrinsic to the film subject and the film subject cannot be a human in a suit. Full paper in the attached PDF. Unalterable Body Segment Dimensions in the Patterson-Gimlin Film.pdf

What I find interesting and may have bearing on the question of BF is that both horses and camels originated on North America and migrated to Eurasia. There was a huge camel whose fossils have been found very near the artic circle in Canada that apparently was very adapted to the cold arctic. The last native NA horse disappeared from the fossil record only 8000 to 10,000 years ago only to be reintroduced back into NA in the 1600s by the Spanish. Could it be that BF had unknown origins in the Americas? There are certainly monkeys in South America who came from someplace and that could have evolved. It just seems to me that the origin and ancestral record of BF is so hard to imagine that it might be even stranger than we have imagined.

I finally broke down and got myself my first ESEE. I have not had it out in the field yet, but I LOVE the way it feels in my hand, and the sheath can be configured for a lefty like me. I really love the handle scales, they feel just right, and textured to make them grippy. Hope to take it out this coming weekend if all goes well.

We're dealing with a linear ratio, so even if the subject was actually shorter than 87", the ratio I obtained would be the same regardless of height. For instance, if the height of the subject was actually only 80% of the height estimate I used, the upper leg length would likewise be decreased to 80% of the value I used, and the ratio of the two values would remain the same. Basically, we've multiplied the numerator and denominator by the same constant, which cancels and doesn't affect the value of the ratio. (For the record, I disagree with the "short Patty" height estimates, but that's outside the scope of my paper.) Regarding the arm length (and ratios including the arm length): While the arm length of the subject is outside the range of human proportions, the total arm length can be altered by a prosthetic worn over the hand. Whether that can be done convincingly is another question that's been debated ad nauseum. The motivation for zeroing in on the upper leg length is specifically because it allowed me to dispense with that can of worms entirely--no prosthetic can make your upper leg longer. You can't make that claim about any other limb segment, except for the upper arm, for which I couldn't find suitable corresponding human data. Hence the "unlike previously considered proportions" line in my conclusion.

Pot. I don't think there is equal evidence for all of those things you mentioned nor is the sheer volume of accounts equal among those subjects. However if you are going to bring up gnomes and pixies (fairies) then yes there is a ton of that kind of phenomenon and I think there is something to it. I like to read old folk tails from that part of the world. The accounts from another age and a different culture are often astoundingly similar to what we experience over on this continent in nature and description. If anything reading those kinds of accounts from the past and comparing them to today's paranormal phenomenon only further confirms for me the reality of the phenomenon rather than suggesting its non existence. But you are really failing to understand or respond to my point for bringing up different forms for a phenomenon I am suggesting could all be related and really the same thing. If Jung is correct, and I think he is to some extent for sure, it does not matter if it is a fairy, a bigfoot, an orb or a UFO. They would all be manifestations of the one numinous force drawing from the collective unconscious of humanity. From this perspective you make the mistake of thinking of these phenomenon as separate rather than related or even the same. It is really humorous though to have you try to mock this idea when this is exactly the kind of mocking the close minded and ignorant use on people who think bigfoot is real..... Pot meet kettle......

I downvoted you as a joke.

Hello. Im new to the forum and am just a casual interested layperson on the topic of Bigfoot. I have two freinds who have had direct sightings of bigfoot and have known both of them for long enough and well enough to really trust them and what they saw. Over the years I have become convinced that Bigfoot do exist. I am not really on the fence about that anymore due to hearing too many credible accounts of people having interactions with them. I wanted to share something that happened to me twice years ago in the Wasatch Mountains in Utah and hear any perspectives on the chances it was a bigfoot encounter. I'm not looking for definite answers as obviously these cannot be given for my experience but any insight and/or knowledge about activity in this area would be appreciated. I used to live in a pretty rundown neighborhood and there were a few boys whose parents were not doing basically any supervision at all with them. No curfew or bedtime, they could run around all day and night and even didn't go to school often and these boys were only 9 or 10 years old. Anyway I took these boys under my wing and we are all freinds to this day. My wife and I used to take them camping and hiking all the time. I used to love going hiking at night (I know now that is not very smart) and so one night I went hiking around 10 at night with a friend of mine. We were at the top of Big Cottonwood canyon and the hike started at a lake called silver lake right off the main road. It was around 10 or 11 at night and we hiked up from that lake to another smaller lake about a mile and a half up into the mountains from there. That whole area is a famous ski resort area and there are even houses at the base where the hike began. There is no camping allowed up these trails and no road that goes to the lake we hiked up too. When we got to the top we sat at the side of the lake, its more like a very big pond actually. Anyway while sitting there enjoying the evening and solitude we heard the sound of a large boulder being thrown into the water and this spooked us because there are no cliffs or steep hills a boulder might be thrown from. It was dark but there was moonlight and we could not see anyone standing near the lake all around. It was not a fish jumping and it was not a beaver slapping its tail. The sound had that bass to it from something big being thrown. I yelled out that I had a gun and then we decided to leave because it was weird that someone was messing with us so late at night out in the woods. I did not think much of that after leaving. About a month later I decided to take three of those boys with me on the same hike again around 10 or 11 at night. We got to the lake and were sitting by the waters edge and the same thing happened. A boulder was thrown into the water judging by the sound of it and this time I was more spooked because it just seemed so strange for it to happen again to me a month apart from the other experience. Another one was thrown and I yelled out that I had a gun and something about not messing with us. I decided we better leave and so we started hiking out of there. This time though something followed us out off trail and behind us a ways. It was breaking sticks and branches loudly. The kids were terrified and one of them "Little Chris" was shaking so badly he could barely walk. Whatever it was was getting closer as we walked down the trail. It finally got close enough that I thought we were in real trouble. This part lasted about 5 minutes with the breaking of the branches and the following and getting closer. I had made sure to be behind the boys and so put myself in danger. At this point I picked up a softball sized rock and prepared to face whatever this thing was. I really thought "it" was about to happen and prepared for the worst. I started yelling loudly to try and intimidate whatever it was and waited for it to happen. I was very scared and kicking myself terribly for taking these boys out into the woods so recklessly. But nothing beyond that happened and the breaking sounds stopped happening too and we made the hike all the way back to the car without incident. Back then I did not have internet and so it was puzzling and scary and we never could figure out what that whole situation was but a few years later when I got on the net I happened across a Bigfoot forum or blog or something and danged if what happened to us did sound like a typical Bigfoot situation. Anyway any thoughts on this would be appreciated and especially any thoughts on if they are thought to exists in the Wasatch Mountain range in Utah or not would be welcomed. Thanks.

Reading the last dozen or more posts of lively discussion, one point I think deserves to be brought out. Simply put, all evidence is not equal. Evidence has a hierarchy of weight in shaping a conclusion, and any proper analysis needs to factor in those weights. The stronger (or weightier) the primary evidence is, the less peripheral issues and evidence impact on a conclusion. If empirical evidence is sufficient, anecdotal evidence ceases to have enough weight to be factored into a conclusion. Backdoc's notes about "Direct issues" and "Indirect issues" is (in essence) a similar way of giving weight to the empirical evidence. Most sightings are sorely lacking in solid empirical evidence. The PGF stands out as uniquely situated with a wealth of empirical evidence to work with. The empirical evidence is simply so powerful, so weighty, that the anecdotal evidence can be dismissed as irrelevant. But there are really two separate issues which interested people want to explore. One if the factual conclusion about the authenticity of the film and its subject, and another is to know the full human story of how that film came to exist. And it is in the second matter that the anecdotal evidence is worth researching or seeking out. Example, Al DeAtley wasn't holding the camera, so he is irrelevant to the authenticity of the PGF. But he was a powerful element of the human story, and so research into him is of merit in that respect. Whereas the issue of the film's authenticity is overwhelmingly supported by the empirical evidence, the human story is still clouded and (as human stories inevitably are) is messy and erratic. Some people are honest. Some are not. Some people are predictably rational and methodical. Others may be impulsive and spontaneously erratic. Some people are singularly focused on an action and event, while others let personal matters intrude and cloud decisions. Some people hold truth as a goal to preserve. Others prefer situational ethics and self-serving rationalizations to bend the truth to their needs. The larger PGF story abounds with these human frailties and foibles. And there is merit in exploring these issues, with faint hope we might one day know the true story of what really happened to bring this film into existence. But the bottom line is that however the human story resolves (if indeed it ever does resolve to some truthful narrative), one fact remains constant. The film was the result of an unplanned and spontaneous filming of a real encounter with an entity as yet unrecognized by the biological sciences.

I think that the digging into the details of this film production has gone well below the water table, and people are drowning in the excavation. Radical skeptics remind me of desperate lawyers representing clients who are obviously guilty and have no alibi. This film has exposed every psychological side of mankind I can imagine. The film itself and its story has become the phenomenon. The creature in the film is just the facilitation of the main event. Bill Munns took the best approach to all of this by examining the film itself to the maximum extent possible, and I consider his results golden. There are questions which will always remain, so one must decide whether or not the subject is a sasquatch or a man in a suit. I long ago decided that it was a sasquatch, and Bill (among several others) strengthened that decision. More debate on the production is just another Bonanza episode of cowboy/lawyer drama, or Matlock/Columbo/Perry Mason lawyer mystery. Those murder/lawyer shows are more bland than situation comedies.

Spent the day putting out some trail cams and generally scouting out one of our areas that we have not been to since Covid 19 hit. We were planning on staying out through most of the night, but we were pretty wiped out by 9 PM. Not hiking around with a 40 lb pack every weekend has made us soft. Lol. As we were getting ready to leave out of the area, we thought that we saw something in a small clearing next to us... A turtle must have gotten sick, climbed on top of a stump, and died. Ask we were standing there we noticed another turtle shell a few yards away at the foot of a game trail that we had not yet seen. We found what might have been some old prints along the trail, but only one partisl that was somewhat fresh.

I had a similar-enough experience back in '88 at Babyfoot Lake in SW Oregon. My now ex and I left our 18 month old daughter with my ex's dad and step mom so we could celebrate our anniversary in the woods. We arrived mid afternoon after a 1.5 mile hike, set up camp, ate, then I took a few minutes to fish a little. The lake sits in a small glacial cirque. We were back near the headwall on a slightly brushy, timbered flat a couple acres in size. We heard rocks rolling far above us to the right. It was intermittent like something picking its way diagonally down and left across the headwall which was out of sight behind trees from us. We started to get weirded out, just felt .. "off", and after a big of discussion we thought we had enough time to get back to the truck before it was dark so we broke camp and hauled butt. The trail out crossed the ridge to our left from the perspective of facing the headwall, in other words, it crossed the ridge "it" seemed to be moving towards. Bit of concern whatever nameless "it" that it was would cut us off crossing the ridge. Now, I was packing a single action .44 and had a double action .357 my then wife was packing, but those didn't create any false confidence. We got to the ridge and it was already dusk-ish and dimming quickly. "It" wasn't waiting, though, so we headed up the trail toward the truck. A short ways up the trail there's a ledge the trail crosses which is a little snotty thing to get up especially in the dark. It's only waist high or so, just .. awkward. Once we were both up, took a couple steps, then the noises began. In those days, before the Silver Fire, the trail was a narrow slice through a sea of rhododendron and saddler's oak 10-15 feet high with douglas fir overhead. Pretty darn dark in there and a lot of cover within arm's reach of the trail so it was ... tense. Whatever it was, it stayed just above and behind us herding us like I've herded cows .. all about angles. At times we could see the rhodys and saddlers oaks being pushed aside and pushed down as something very large plowed through them. The cadence was of two feet. It was going through them like you or I would go through shoulder-tall grass .. seemingly little resistance to "it" though I do not think I could wade through it. Sometimes "it" seemed to stop making sounds. The first time or two, we thought maybe it left, but as soon as we would pass a small, more open spot, it would start up again, so it was leap-frogging ahead of us, then waiting 'til we passed it to begin "pushing" us again. It never got closer than 25-30 feet and was sometimes as much as 50 yards away. Once we got within a few hundred yards of the parking lot and truck, the cover thinned and it apparently stopped following. My ex wife does not "believe in" bigfoot but now and then when that comes up in conversation her eyes get real big. She remembers that night .. well .. and has no explanation for what we experienced. A year or so ago I talked to a local researcher just swapping stories and told him 'bout that hike. All he said was "Oh, you ran into HIM, yeah, he's a GRUMPY bastard." Wish I had it to do over again but with someone else to share camp with, wouldn't wish that on my ex wife. I'd stay and see what happened. Nothin' ventured, nothin' gained. 30-odd years will change your perspective on things. MIB

She's a preschool teacher so habitually repeats thing in order to get the message through.

Of course none of this will matter to science. What it only matters is to the witness . That what they encountered was not some thing they imagine . That there was proof of what they heard and had encountered and that they do not have to go through time thinking if it was all real. Now they can clear their thoughts and know that what they experience did happen. Is this not what happens to most of us who have encountered these creatures .We want to go look for answers to the things that we experience. We need that proof for our selves. It does not matter to anyone else. It only matters to the person who witnessed the experience. This is why there are people who go out to investigate these sightings. These are the people who vet these sightings out. It is up to science whether they want to investigate these creatures further. If science refuses to investigate these creatures with the evidence at hand . Then science is not science by the mere definition.

Trapper: A large portion of my research work in 2012 (funded by a research grant) included creating breast prosthetics of the three materials available in 1967 for costume fabrication, and these prosthetic breasts were tested as to their capability of producing any kind of realistic motion resembling the motion of natural breast masses when a subject is walking. All three prosthetic options failed completely to replicate natural breast motions. So you are correct in your remark that the breast motion is completely realistic, and cannot be replicated by a costume. Bill

I took care of that for you. Good job Skinwalker13!

I suggest you learn to dismiss it, Backdoc....because the information relating to it is long gone...and will most likely never be found. Roger and Al took that secret to their graves. There is no point in speculatin' on it, anymore....(unless you want to waste your time). Not to worry, though.....when all else fails, there is still a film subject to study/analyze.

I had a similar situation happen to me in my research area. I had come out nearly to the trailhead after spending the day. I had not seen anyone all day. A guy on a mountain bike came off the mountain behind me and hailed me down. That surprised me because the trail is pretty difficult on foot and I had never seen anyone on a mountain bike traverse it. He asked me where he was and how far away the trailhead was that he had left his car at. It was 7.5 miles back over the mountain on the trail and was about 12 miles on roads. He did not want to ride over the mountain again. On the roads, his route would start out on a forest road, transition to three different county roads, and take several turns towards the parking lot. I asked him how he managed to get where he had no idea where he was. He was supposed to meet some friends to ride with and they did not show up. He struck out on his own without a map or any clue where the trail would take him. He must have thought it was a loop. . I tried to explain the road route back and got a look that told me he would never remember it. He then asked if I had anything to eat or drink. He had brought none. I gave him a power bar and what water I had left and he left me on the bike. I got back to my truck loaded up, and passed him grinding away down the forest road looking very tired. . I went past him and just knew he would get more lost than he was. I stopped and offered him a ride to where his car was parked since I had to go past there anyway. I have no idea if he had any clue how lost he was and learned anything from it. I hope so.

The amount of people who go out into the woods without the slightest preparation or knowledge of the basics of survival is shockingly high. If anything, Paulides' advice on going hiking (not going alone, carry a firearm, have a PLB) will hopefully resonate with some of the people who read his work. He has fleshed this advice out lately to include survival blankets, matches, energy bars, etc. We were in the Chattahoochee/Nantahala area (I think) one time, several miles in, when we started hearing something big moving through the deep brush. We started hearing what sounded like mumbling, so we obviously go on alert and stop. Out of the brush stumbles a couple, scratched all up and arguing with each other. The woman was wearing some sort of Lycra workout clothing and at least had tennis shoes. No pack or anything. The guy had some sort of man purse with him, but no visible water and was wearing some sort of flip flop type of footwear. We kind of all just looked at each other for a second, and then the guy kind of rudely asked where a particular trailhead parking lot was at. My girlfriend was more familiar with the general area than I was, so she told them that it was about 12.5 miles away. There were a few turns that they would have to make on the trails, but as she tried to explain the directions to the guy he rudely said something like "FINE! I GOT IT!" and started to walk away. I tried to ask if they needed help...food or water or something...but he turned around and goes "I SAID THAT I GOT IT GOD#@&$#!!!". Off they went down the trail arguing the whole way. The impression that I got was that the guy took his girlfriend out for a day hike that turned into more than he bargained for, they started arguing about it, and he wouldn't admit that he was in over his head. As the walked away I told my girlfriend to remind me to check the news to see if there was a story about missing hikers when we got home. We marked the location that we saw them on our GPS and went on our way. Near the parking area at the main trailhead there is a box to drop hiking information cards into detailing the time of your hike etc. We stopped by there the next day and filled out an index card detailing the interaction, description of the couple, location/time etc. Put our numbers on there in case anyone needed to talk with is if there was a couple reported missing. Never heard anything so I guess they eventually made it out. Maybe certain people need a little fear if not respect for the woods drilled into them.

I dont understand the argument for Paulides NEEDING to have a theory as to what it is that is responsible. I cant follow the logic of him not being credible for not offering an explanation. Why is he not credible? I see him as not jumping to conclusions without evidence. If evidence does not lead to an straightforward conclusion it is wrong to offer one. I think that is respectable. Being an author who reports on strange disappearances does not require having a theory about what it is. Why should it?

I haven’t given a downvote in this thread but if we are going to get upvotes for giving downvoted I can start!

Hiflier, I'm convinced you're on to something with the e-DNA. The problem with people like us that go out in the field is we have no idea how to extract evidence, where to send it, and what it will cost. The latter two are critical. If it costs $3,000, I'm not about to send anything out unless I am unfailingly convinced I've got the goods. My concern is that we'd get the classic "contaminated" letter in the mail and now we're out a fair amount of money. The way I look at it, for my purposes alone, the $3,000 (just an example) would be better spent getting better equipment. I've got a good thermal imager. Maybe I can spend the $3,000 on a drone and add a killer camera setup. If the e-DNA could be done at a relatively inexpensive price and done so anonymously, so I don't find men in black standing at my door one day, I'd be all over it. I applaud the work you're doing on this because this path will be the best hope we have. I just don't want to burn through cash in the process because the only person I'm proving things to is me. I don't want sasquatch to be proven to the outside world.

I have set it aside to pursue more productive endeavors. There is an error that I have not been able to work out. I think something needs to be adjusted in the TC1, TC2, TC4 triangle, and it takes days to work this kind of stuff out doing trial and error. I think the 12 foot distance is the most reliable measurement, but it also depends on how high up the tree they measured. Since there is tree lean, measuring at the base vs waist high might be 6" difference, and that difference gets multiplied if you use it as the reference, as you start to place the far trees. It's an exercise in frustration...

I actually think your Indirect Issues are more important and certainly more interesting than your direct issues. The film is what it is. I don't think I'll ever get anything more out of watching the film again. The camera details, the creature's size, the path...these aren't important to me. You could argue the creature's size is important if you have someone claiming they were the creature and you could compare the size of both subjects but other than that the creature doesn't look any smaller or bigger than the average size man to me. The creature certainly doesn't look 7 feet tall to me. I'm not sure there is much more to learn about the actual film footage. I think we'll only learn something new if people come forward to address your indirect issues. Of course any new news would have to be questioned and analyzed but I find that stuff, the human drama, if you will, to be more interesting after having viewed the film footage a few hundred times.

5.3.20 - Went for a long drive with the windows down and the music up, followed by a short hike through a meadow full of camas.

I personally wouldn't get a group of people together to go 2 miles off trail through pretty thick brush up a steep hill, pack in equipment (because that couldn't have been done without mechanical assistance), and hoaxed something that someone would probably never see. But, people are weird and it can't be ruled out. Also, just because we couldn't figure out how it couldn't have occurred naturally doesn't mean that it didn't occur naturally. Right now the only real connection that structure has to Sasquatch is that it was found in a forest where we have found prints in the past. We didn't see who made it or how it occurred, so I am not going to immediately leap to the conclusion that Bigfoot made it. I thought that it was interesting though. First time I have seen a "structure" that honestly didn't look natural. This area is interesting once you get deep in and off the path. The turtle shell could have been picked up by someone else stupid enough to push their way through the holly trees for what seemed like forever to get in there and placed on a stump after looking at it. It was strange finding two like that, one at the beginning of a game trail that we wouldn't have noticed otherwise. Could be a Turtles' Graveyard type of situation.. where old turtles are compelled to travel to when they begin to die. Lol. Strange, but I try not to read too much into this sort of stuff. Nothing that is connected to Bigfoot on the face of it, but pretty neat.

How? Most witnesses are "missing".

I am not usually one to give much credence to tree structures, but we came across one that we couldn't quite explain...

This is the area that BC Witness and I were in, yesterday. The altitude was almost 1 mile. Approximately 5000 feet elevation. Of course, I did have to include a picture of the Sasquatch my wife and I encountered. Who knew they drove Mitsubishi's?

Great pictures and writeup, Kiwakwe. I managed to get out today, with another member from this forum. We convoyed in 2 vehicles, to maintain social distancing, but got to share some time in the high country together. Campfire was a failure, as it had bucketed rain just a couple of hours before we got there, and even logs that he split were still too wet to light. He had heard a report from a relative who had recently camped in the target area, of some deep sounding howls, so he felt a recce was in order. The road in was 10 km of good gravel, then 10 km of bone jarring potholes and washboard, followed with another 5km of broken rock on steep grades, that required real concentration to avoid shredding a tire or two. The reward at the end was a high ridge a mile above 2 large lakes that could both be seen from the same spot, one to the east and the other to the west. The rain held off, with some brief sunny periods, and enough breeze to keep the mosquitoes off until it died down about 3:45, then the bugs became a real annoyance, and I chose to head out, while he and his wife finished lunch and cleanup. There were some bear tracks that he spotted in the moss where we lunched, but no other sign of any kind was found. The snow was gone from that height a little early this year, as we had a very warm and dry first 3 weeks of April. The salmon berries were already flowering, as well as the skunk cabbage in the damp hollows. My pics are being stubborn about downloading from the phone again. When I get that sorted, I'll put them up here.

One thing I've learned from using my phone to video things, is to hold it horizontally for the best picture. Nice research and follow up! One thing I've learned from using my phone to video things, is to hold it horizontally for the best picture. Nice research and follow up! One thing I've learned from using my phone to video things, is to hold it horizontally for the best picture. Nice research and follow up! One thing I've learned from using my phone to video things, is to hold it horizontally for the best picture. Nice research and follow up!

Stan Courtney implies Sasquatch can imitate a weedeater like a lyre bird, if that is the case, and I believe based on my own sound recording research that they are expert emulators, then I believe what researchers report in this realm.

My likes are -- That he is telling peoples stories with the intent to help people not be ashamed and afraid to share the stores publicly and that people are following that lead and choosing to stand up for themselves and not fear ridicule. (this has its limits but I like the general trend). I also like that he is a professional hunter and knows what he is talking about being deep in the woods. He is often 9 days travel off trail out in the woods for days and days at a time. I respect the level of knowledge and abilities doing that requires and IMO it makes any encounters he claims to have more trustworthy. I like that he is bullying the bullies (provided he is right about who and what these people are as Ive already stated). I like that he speaks about not needing any official agency or the public at large or any scientist to recognize the existence of Bigfoot in order for us to know it exists because thousands of good people (along with some hoaxers, liars and crazy people) have seen them and say so. I agree with the sentiment here completely and it comes as a relief to hear more people speaking about it. I like his point about not needing to focus so much on IF they exist but to get to the point of finding out why (if there is a cover up type reason) we don't already know as a society. Dislikes are-- He seems to judge everyone who doesn't think exactly the way he does about the overview of the topic. He picks on Jeff Meldrum and others for wanting to do "research" and try to prove their existence when we already know they exist. I really dislike this take of his as it is self centered and immature. Scientists and researchers provide an essential service to humanity and it is hard to see how he could think otherwise when it comes to this topic. I dislike him picking on everyone who takes money to take people out to and have an experience with bigfoot. Admittedly I don't know much about these groups and who they are but I am assuming some are legit. I find this especially hypocritical seeing as how he takes money to bring people out into the woods to give them an experience with hunting...... His general overall bravado about his opinions on the whole topic and quickness ot have disdain for those who think otherwise.

Funny how it is that in a team of 2 the lady can always manage to outvote...

For what it's worth, I have 100% heard him say this also and I too am sure it was on a C2C interview.

4/26/20 - NorthWind and I went out today, but didn't find anything worth mentioning. It was a very pretty day, though!

what makes you say that about it being a cover story for bigfoot? he has specifically addressed this so many times and given good reasons why he does not think its bigfoot. i dont understand the thinking here. one can simultaneously believe bigfoot is out there and sometimes caused problems and at the same time not think bigfoot is the only thing out there causing problems. also he did a whole book showing that these strange disappearances happen in the middle of cities everywhere too. how could Paulides thing bigfoot are responsible for disappearances in the middle of New York City?

@trapper Just laid down to go to sleep and put the latest Sasquatch Chronicles on to drift off to. The guest had an encounter during a night hike with his kids in...Utah. Crazy synchronicity.

I have looked at the various wilderness areas in Washington State from the air and quite frankly cannot figure out why some were designated Wilderness in the first place. Sometimes chunks of land near them are far more interesting. Indian Heaven is one of those. I have wondered if they are simply BF hotspots and by the wilderness designation, logging is avoided, road travel does not happen, and only a few backpackers make it in there every year. Back packers are easily avoided by resident BF and even if seen, the backpacker probably would just think it cool that they saw one. I have even wondered if the prohibition of low flights over the wilderness area is more to keep something from being seen from the air than bother a few backpackers who probably are bored with the trail anyway.