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  1. 3 points
    Bought a smittybuilt roof top tent. Could not find a Silverado bed rack anywhere so I had one built. Go to the cardiologist tomorrow. And then to Post Falls Idaho to 4 wheel drive parts to get the tent installed.... Driving down to New Mexico to see new grand baby and wanna spend some time in the Colorado Rockies along the way!
  2. 3 points
    I had a very closeup encounter in 1990 on the Dallas Divide in Colorado in good lighting. No mistaking what I saw. I was headed to Telluride at the time, when I got there I asked a friend of mine that lived there if there were any Bigfood sightings in the area. He gave me a funny look and I really got the feeling that I shouldn't talk about it and didn't for a good 15 years. People tend to think you're nuts.
  3. 3 points
    Truly I do not know what the knocks mean so I do not knock. There is no point in inadvertently knocking a declaration of war nor an offer of sexual favors "banned in 27 states and the District of Columbia" to the boss of the woods. I don't think all of those knocks are rocks or sticks, I think some may be hand clap, mouth pops, and tooth clacks. Given the lack of suitable materials in some locations, and the apparent instant availability of whatever is used, I suspect the BFs making the mouth sounds are very much closer than we realize thus accounting for otherwise unaccountable volume. Some people believe the number of knocks matches the number of humans. I've heard knocks 4-5 occasions ... it tracks. However, my then-partner in research said she heard a knock. I didn't hear it. There were 3 of us. So ... dunno. In at least one instance, I think the wood knock was intended for me, I'm not sure there were any other BFs around. MIB
  4. 3 points
    Date & Time: July 28, 2019 Location: Oregon Cascades, the Meadow and 10 miles around it, generally speaking Weather: Hot, between 80 and 90°F What Happened: NorthWind, his friend K. and I checked out the ridge where they got vocalizations last weekend. We vocalized and got nothing. We also couldn't find the prints they found, which was disappointing because i wanted to cast them. I enjoy casting. We left there, and drove down and across the valley. NorthWind thought there might be caves at the bottom of the valley ravine and we wanted to check it out. We drove my truck and K.'s car, but had eventually to leave his car and continue in my truck as the road turned into a long car-wide strip of meadow. Finally we had to ditch my truck also when we came to landslides, and we hiked the last mile in. Turns out that the rocks were too crumbly to climb down onto, as it was the gravelly, rocky end of a very old logging road. So, we could not get to the caves, though we could see that it would be cooler down there than where we were, and we could hear running water. If they live there, they chose a tactically smart home! We gave up and hiked back out to the vehicles. From there, we drove out to the Meadow to leave something at the gifting place. While we were sitting around resting, the guys smelled a fleeting bad odor. Knowing that bigfoots are reputed to stink, we were on alert. However when nothing happened after a half hour, K. went to leave a gift. I followed him half way, and NorthWind was back packing stuff into the vehicles. As i was watching K. disappear into the woods at the far end of the pond, I became aware of small, subtle crackling sounds off into the woods on my left. Sounded like walking, like foot steps. I was probably 10 feet from the forest, with heavy bushes and trees, and I couldn't see anything. I wondered if i was imagining it. Eventually i decided that it really was something, and began filming the pond and pointing the recorder end towards the woods trying to catch audio. I called NorthWind over and eventually he could hear sounds, too. We made plans - NorthWind would return to the road and walk in, I would go straight, and K. would walk in from his end. We followed this plan and appeared to have flushed something out, though I didn't see it (or hear it, i was making too much noise trying to get through brambles without being impaled on blackberry thorns). K. got to the Meadow first, and saw something dark duck into the woods. He tried to follow, but it was long gone by the time he got over there. NorthWind thought he daw a shaken tree in the same area. So, success? Between the three of us, we smelled something, heard something and saw something in an area that is highly suspected of being bigfoot country. Cool! The ridge and valley, the old logging road, the pond, the Meadow and pretty wildflowers.
  5. 2 points
    I watched the sequence trying to see more details of the baby. What has not been mentioned is that the first part of the video Mom does not seem to be carrying anything. She makes a beeline for some large rocks then raises up holding the baby after a few seconds staring at the person doing the video. Then the baby is visible most of the time. She does not withdraw away from the camera but at about 90 degrees to the camera holder. Most likely because of the huge boulders directly away from the camera. Which she could not navigate holding a baby. I have always contended that Patty was on a mission. She could have withdrawn directly away from Roger and Bob but proceeded along the creek in the direction Roger and Bob were traveling. That and her prominent breasts suggests to me Patty was lactating and had a baby stashed someplace. Her mission was to get to baby before Roger and Bob did. Just like this Mom single mindedly proceeded to her baby, and retrieved it, when it could have just gone into a crouch and not been seen at all. In both cases getting to baby first was priority.
  6. 2 points
    Good summary below on the scientific view of bigfoot research today and the unlikely presence of a conspiracy. The article has several good quotes from Dr. Sykes, Dr. Disotell, and Dr. McLeod. Although, for those who have followed the field for the last 10 years, there is nothing new in this article. https://hotalien.com/theres-no-sasquatch-conspiracy-afoot-scientists-say/
  7. 2 points
    They may have been nighthawks in the recording. Then again, who knows? I slept in the back of my pickup. It has a hard canopy. I also had a 10x10 pop-up over the back part of the truck, so I would have a dry place to get out in the middle of the night. I lost my entire colon fifteen years or so ago to ulcerative colitis and I have to get up several times a night to take care of business, so I need it to be as easy as possible. TMI, I know. The funny part is that the rain would collect on the roof part of the pop up. Of course, while I was lying in the back of the truck listening, and imagining a 9 foot tall creature outside, it decided to dump that water load on top of the canopy in one large whoosh! Scared the bejeepers out of me. LOL Then it would wait until I was almost asleep and do it again, and again. I have had better nights' sleep, believe me. Still, it was fun, and always nice to get out in the woods.
  8. 2 points
    I regret not having stuck around a bit longer. I knew at the time that I would also regret not at least trying to go for my camera. OTOH this experience also allows me to sound like a nutbag if I reveal it to someone and I really don't like that. I feel like I have enough issues being credible without that hanging over my head. So most of the time I keep silent about it. It would be a whole lot easier to have no opinion on the subject; ironically I still don't have an opinion; since I know for a fact they exist (or did) and there's nothing anyone (including myself) can say or do to change that.
  9. 2 points
    I do not think we are only separated by 30,000 years. That would make them modern human and I don’t see the evidence to support that. If our evidence is valid. Like track casts, the PGF, etc. I also do not think we are compatible sexually. If we were I think we would have found it in Native American populations by now. Just like we find Neanderthal and Denisovan genetics in certain populations of modern humans.
  10. 2 points
    Catmandoo... thanks for that. I didn’t know that was a thing with apes. I would just say to those who hypothesize how this could have been a tag on some other animal.....take the time to read this, in full. Many of the alternative explanations are discussed, in detail. No matter what your pet theory is about what the nature of BF might be, or how it will ultimately be confirmed or refuted, science needs to lead. This is field research in the best tradition...bold, clever, well documented and freely shared, and with a potential to move the needle just a little, or even a lot. If it can be done once, it is plausible it can be done again. Each time it is, if it is, it puts the confirmation bias explanation further off the table. We shall see, I guess. I for one give these folks huge props for dreaming this technique up, seeing it through and (especially) publishing it with this degree of thoroughness..
  11. 2 points
    Most of the renditions I've seen suggest artist bias. They start with something they know, some assumptions they've made, then adjust details to match the witness description, but the outcome still heavily reflects those original assumptions. With such contradictions in depiction obvious, I think all artist renditions are interesting but all must also be taken with a substantial grain of salt. MIB
  12. 2 points
    To touch on Airdales’s point. I do not believe that analysis on this film or the timeline will ever conclusively prove its origins one way or another. As I said earlier I do find it interesting to discuss and this is a discussion board after all. And let’s keep in mind that all the “grasping at straws” that is done on this subforum generates the majority of the content here, like it or not. Ive stated before only two things could really occur that would settle the debate IMO. 1) Roger admits it was all a hoax (unlikely) 2). BF is finally proven and documented and it’s plainly obvious it’s the same species we see on the film.
  13. 2 points
    Yeah, I guess they are. But most of the people that I know, that have experiences like mine don't report them (publicly), for obvious reasons.
  14. 2 points
    Heading out today for an overnight in an area that has produced in the past. Will retrieve (hopefully) the card from a trail cam there already and put up a 2nd trail cam. The weather forecast looks perfect. Will report back.
  15. 2 points
  16. 2 points
    Haven't heard of that variety, or at least by that name Huntster. When I spent five months at NAS Cubi Point in Subic Bay on detached duty from the air wing on Enterprise we frequently encountered Monitor Lizards. They could get up to five feet or so and sometimes blocked traffic when sunning themselves on the pavement. Our transient barracks were a bunch of Quonset huts with the road on one side and jungle on the other, next door to the JEST (Jungle Escape Survival Training) Camp. Just looked at Google Earth imagery from April of this year and it's all still there though the jungle has encroached a bit more and the JEST Camp has a little pine tree symbol that usually denotes a park. The plus side was the newest EM club on base was diagonally across the road about a hundred yards away. We had one guy with us for a couple of weeks that was a suit short of a full deck and a terrible bigot who managed to alienate a sizable portion of the African Americans on the Big "E"; they took him off the ship for his own safety and he was on his way Stateside for out processing, likely with a general discharge. He returned to the hut one night white as a sheet after taking a drunken "shortcut" through the jungle from the club across the street. We finally got out of him that an evidently large Monitor reared up on hind legs and hissed at him (probably stepped on its tail) and he was sure it was going to eat him. We all kind of pitied the guy and it was hard to imagine how he even made it into boot camp let alone graduated. The thought of him armed with anything more than a cap gun would have been sufficient to make your blood run cold.
  17. 2 points
    Joe, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only researcher to fall into a campfire. Fortunately, I was not alone when I slipped on a wet root in the dark and tumbled into the fire ring. My buddies reacted instantly, rolling me out of the hot coals and flames so quickly that I only hade a hole burned in my camo pants to show for it. Without them there to save my sorry butt, I could have been seriously burned, as I fell in such a way that I was having trouble getting my feet under me without putting my bare hands into the fire, and the stone fire ring was making it difficult to roll out. Yes, we were all sober, thank goodness. Now when we have a fire, I'm told to stay away and let others tend to it!! I also get out alone, which I shouldn't do at my age, but it's difficult to stay home when others are not available to join me. When I do go out alone, I am very conscious of my safety, and stick to mild trails. It's very tempting to check out the sandbar in the creek at the bottom of a steep, rocky incline, but I leave that for the days when my younger fellow researchers can join me.
  18. 2 points
    In my experience with BF in a handful of encounters, when I do something that upsets them, if I back off, give them space to withdraw etc. things are fine. The time when I tried to corner one and get it to break cover, it got ugly and dangerous. If they feel like they are controlling the situation things seem to be OK. When I have tried to gain control, and this can apply to a lot of things, it causes problems and angry reactions on their part. If they are chasing you out of an area leave. GIve them what they seem to want. Almost all of my experience has been solo. But quite honestly solo is not safe on several levels. Break a leg without a PLB and you are toast. However I think solo has allowed contact in situations where a BF would never approach more than one person. So I honestly presume that risk may be worth the reward. The temperament of BF may depend on the region. If your local BF have had bad interactions with humans, been shot at, shot, or whatever, then probably all interactions are going to be ugly and dangerous for you. If your locals have had good experience with humans then the opposite may be true. You never know until you have contact. Grizzly in Colorado are going to be much more of a risk than BF. As a matter of fact BF may keep grizzly away if you are in their area, so having BF close may be a big positive. I would bet a lot of money that BF and Grizzly are mortal enemies. Grizzly are so bad tempered I cannot imagine them getting along with any other species. And it both are predators then the problems really get bad because of competition for game. Bear spray at a minimum or both a gun and that for the bears. If you try either on a BF I don't think we would hear from you again unless you carry more than a hand gun.
  19. 1 point
    Care to go into detail? I have become fascinated with Bigfoot of late and would love to know if anyone has actually gone out searching for Bigfoot with success? I am in Mass which isnt the best BF sighting territory, but ive been hiking a lot lately hoping in the back of my mind something happens. I am excited to be apart of this community and reading all these posts have only help confirm what I already believe.
  20. 1 point
    I've been hiking, hunting, camping, prospecting, and just hangin' out in the mountains of B.C for more than 60 years, and had 3 experiences in that time. My teenage son had a sighting about 40 years ago on a camping trip, but I only got a fleeting glimpse of what he saw. I found a trackway in snow a year or so later, and then had a sighting the year after that. Nothing since, and I get out in the woods every chance I can, probably 30 days per year nowadays. I still go hunting and prospecting, and get out a few times each year with other local researchers specifically looking for Sasquatch, but our best efforts so far have been a rock throwing incident, and follow ups to a number of local reports, only one of which produced a castable track.
  21. 1 point
    My first encounter the two adult BF were whooping at each other as they moved through the woods. That whoop could be construed as a bark I suppose but it was more like what a human could produce by vocalizing "whooop". The "P" was definitely pronounced.
  22. 1 point
    Science states that BF does not exist. BF enthusiasts say that it does. The same enthusiasts point to report sightings throughout almost the entire US. There are ones that claim to have evidence but withhold it for various reasons. Some claim that in “inner circles” there are multiple clear and convincing photos. Maybe as a BF community we need to like within as to why this mystery is not solved. We can and should point fingers at the government on the issue but we also need to realize fingers need to be pointed at us as well. We keep yelling there is smoke that should lead to a fire but we can’t reliably produce said smoke and get upset that they won’t acknowledge the fire.
  23. 1 point
    It's a younger generation lass, like 80 or 90 years younger than you, different values, different angle, different everything.
  24. 1 point
    That parallel travel escort event is very commonly reported. It seems that they want you to hear them and are escorting you out of the woods. I have been followed a couple of times and never heard anything until right before something was thrown at me and hit my pack. It was the sound of something running to get close enough accurately throw the rock. So they may change their tactics on if they want a human to hear or not. You might be onto something in that killing and leaving something to rot that is on their menu might be some sort of crime in their world. The danger for us is that some human might blunder into doing one of their capitol crimes and end up missing. That is part of my reason for not making howls or vocalizations. I have no idea what anything means that might anger them.
  25. 1 point
    Welcome Charles! I remember you from the BFRO forum a long time ago. We reside in the same neck of the woods too. I understand you have spoke up at Republic at the BCH meeting. I have helped with packing into the snow peak cabin and we also replaced logs on the porch. I was a member but let my membership lapse of late. Be safe!
  26. 1 point
    If there is a version of frame 352 out there that has been “altered”? It’s still going to be more accurate than a artist sketch. Unless someone photoshopped bunny ears onto it or something like that. It’s pretty easy to tell...
  27. 1 point
    Crickets from me because I was ... sleeping. Priorities!! If there is a coverup .. well, it depends. How large, how organized, how well funded, and for what purpose? At what point does the damage from continuing the coverup outweigh the damage from discovery of bigfoot? I think that's the core of the question and each person's answer likely is rooted in what they think bigfoot is, thus the reason for the coverup. The best we could hope for is the reasons are not that important and, in the face of great effort coming, those in charge of the coverup just throw their hands in the air, say "forget" it, and let the discovery proceed .. maybe spend their time and effort concealing the coverup itself rather than trying to hide bigfoot. Worst case, though, if there is some serious reason for hiding bigfoot's existence, then the scientists are putting themselves in grave danger. I do not think gov't has any delusion of being able to find and kill every last bigfoot. If they try that and even one escapes, they've guaranteed that proving existence will happen and all the consequences stemming from proof will happen. If there is a conspiracy, I don't believe they'll risk it. Alternately, the scientists involved might be presented with an ultimatum: stand down or you and your family die. It wouldn't be hard to concoct a story that they were all working on some dangerous new contagion, there was an "incident", and all contracted it and perished. It seems more feasible for conspirators to do that successfully than to kill the bigfoots. Alternately, they tell us WHY the bigfoots are a danger that must be ended, and then go ahead trying to kill them openly. That might be the most likely. I don't believe there's a cover up, though. I think I'd have been told to stand down or face consequences. Hasn't happened. MIB
  28. 1 point
    I find that odd and almost unacceptable. Especially in light that suspected BF DNA comes back Human. It doesn't surprise me. I don't think they want discovery to happen otherwise they would stop at nothing to make it happen. Sure, that's a purist viewpoint But I weigh a lot of people and things on that viewpoint. Why? Because I think folks are too laid back on the biggest discovery science/zoology will ever have. EVER. So people's and academia's approach and attitude is something I just don't understand. I STILL wouldn't hand it over to Dr. Meldrum. And after what you just summarized? I DEFINITELY wouldn't hand a specimen over to him. What are they even DOING at a conference when time and money is so much is at stake? I don't get that. I don't need their tin badges- I want someone with a Silver Star! Thank you, Wyllystyle, for bring in your take on things.
  29. 1 point
    Gimlin’s judgement that Patty posed no threat has no bearing here. Patty had no idea that Gimlin posed no threat to her. He pulled a rifle on her. More often than not this is the last thing an animal sees before death. Horses? It depends. They have a better sense of smell than we do. Better hearing too. But way worse eyesight. I’ve had horses jump over a bush being blown by the wind. Or a deer that I saw a long time ago cross in front of us. Horses are a prey species. Humans are predators. Our senses are different. How we percieve our surroundings are different. And how we react to threats is different. It’s really a apples vs oranges comparison. Its my understanding that the film site was close to a road. I’m sure Patty May have gotten used to the sound of engines equaling the presence of man. She may have heard the horses approach and thought it was Elk or Deer or some other natural quadruped. But I think she pooped herself when two humans appeared seemingly out of nowhere. Not a lot of cowboys riding horses in Bluff creek historically. I’m sure she was pretty scared by the encounter because she hightailed it out of there. Ive had Bear stand their ground with me. Knowing full well what I was. It’s not a warm and fuzzy feeling.
  30. 1 point
    Well they intimidate the heck out me that's for sure . I do not see them as scary creatures but they do have that crazy feeling about them whether I come back alive or dead when I am around them. It does not matter if they are flesh and blood I still get this feeling around them that maybe I might be their meal. But then at other times I feel like they are teaching me some thing that we have lost as man once used in our past. The only thing or maybe I wish I could unsee what I saw is because it has brought me so much grief in my life. I have always wished that I have kept silent to the things that I have experienced since I have no way to explain . It is the unbelief of others that brings this grief. But now I just do not give a Sh^t of what others think since I know the truth of what I have experience. I cannot undo what I have seen or experience . I have put it out there for all to read . It is up to the reader whether they choose to believe or not . I have done my part .
  31. 1 point
    Your going to notice if a troupe of 800 lbs primates are living next to you. I had a thread of Caloric intake you can do a search on. Things can hide that are externally supported in 20 acres of woods. A sniper with a months worth of rations and a water supply could easily hide from you. But that is not the same thing as a breeding population of very large primates. You can look at Grizzly Bears (a large omnivore) as a comparison. A male Grizzly Bears home range is 600 square miles. A female? 150 square miles. 600 square miles equals 384000 acres. And this animal hibernates half the year. Apes do not hibernate.
  32. 1 point
    I find that bonkers... They knew that their quarry is bipedal, with a foot that lacks a divergent big toe. We do not have the Gigantopethicus genome cracked. So have no real idea of our relation with it. Ape camp? Non ape camp? These are just words.... Patty’s limb proportions are some where between an Ape and a Human. So logically it’s between a Ape and a Human. Add to that confusion that science considers Humans as Apes? We are really really splitting hairs here. Its all a dang crap shoot. Run the damn test. If what your saying is true? That tells me just how confident these guys were in their own DNA samples. Not much!
  33. 1 point
    That's actually a pretty good idea. Why haven't any of the "primate" labs so far done their work? Degraded samples seems to be a common excuse even though Human DNA can be obtained along with just about everything else. Yes, I understand about "markers" and all but I also think more samples can be obtained from the nesting site at any time until next May 2020. In truth I think that ha already been done because it's inconceivable to me that anyone would simply close the door on any additional chances to get a good sample. I mean, what? Five samples and that's it? No revisits? Makes no sense. I'm pretty serious when I say that the process is still ongoing.
  34. 1 point
    Because that's what they wanted to find, a north american version of african / asian apes, definitely not an almost human. Reflects the mindset of the time. And because of that "certainty", they threw out a very great deal of evidence that contradicted their assumptions without giving it a serious look. Imagine if we had the raw samples they had in the past, like the blood at Snelgrove Lake or the hairs Henner Fahrenbach cataloged still uncontaminated to process with today's DNA technology. I think we'd have answers, instead we squandered the evidence. It's important today to test what we have but try to preserve some of it as well for testing in the future when technology has progressed even further. MIB
  35. 1 point
    Actually she was a veterinarian who dabbled in pedigrees and breed selection process heritability of various animals commercially to boot. The scientific process and chain of methodology short-circuited everything besides manufactured data as far as I could tell; including manufacturing fake journals and pretending to buy them to simulate legitimacy. The scientist in question did not produce a final product instilling confidence in either the scientific method or the chief investigator.
  36. 1 point
    The wood knocks we (my hunting partner and I) were hearing when bow hunting the central coast range of Oregon in the time between 1990 and 1994 occurred differently at different times. Some times it was two to five when we first got into the area and then it was quite. Other times it would continue sporadicly over the course of the evening. Just one or two at a time with long spaces between. Maybe 8 or so over the course of several hours. One time, it was continuous (at least an hour or more, with about 5 to 10 min between) as we walked up an old cat road that was just a game trail by then. That's at least twenty knocks. The road also had trees about 12 to 15 feet tall along it that had the tops twisted and hanging down about 10 feet or so high on the trees. I also have begun to think that some knocks or even all of them are vocalizations.
  37. 1 point
    Total for North America. I'm confident there are many more than that; probably close to 1 million in North America. There are an estimated 200,000 in Alaska alone. I agree strongly, and add that sasquatches are likely susceptible to human diseases, so very well may have suffered catastrophic losses in the 16th Century along with aboriginal Homo sapiens in the New World that they never fully recovered from.
  38. 1 point
    My one experience with tree knocks that I can assign any meaning was my encounter with two adult and one juvenile BF. They were traveling up a creek, one on each side of the creek. The first I became aware of them was a whoop on one side of the creek answered by a similar whoop from the other side. My immediate reaction was that it was two owls whooping back and forth to each other. Then the azimuth of the whoops began to change, indicating they were moving, and giving the impression they were flying up the creek. My thoughts to this point was that this was really strange owl behavior. I dug out and thought I turned on my audio recorder, setting it on a post. I stood and just waited for the two owls to come flying up the creek past me. They continued to whoop back and forth to each other as they progressed towards me. Then I heard the brush crashing and heavy footsteps on my side of the creek headed right towards me. Obviously not owls flying. This crashing and footstep thuds were loud and very similar to the T Rex night encounter portrayed in the original Jurassic Park movie. Something large and very heavy crashing through the brush. I stepped off the trail, attempting to hide, and waited for what I now suspected was a BF headed right towards me. Suddenly I heard and felt a huge thud in my feet as the BF apparently saw or smelled me, and went into a crouch just a few yards away in the brush. 15 seconds after the thud, there were 4 rapid tree knocks. That was the last thing I heard from either. It seems fairly obvious to me that the knocks were to warn the other BF on the other side of the creek, that I was present. The brush at that location would prevent them from seeing each other. Those knocks had to have been a warning to the second BF, because the one that made them had to have known I known I was there, and the second BF did not know I was present. For those that do not recall, or have not heard about my encounter, I did not see the nearby adult but got a picture of the juvenile peeking at me over some sword ferns, before they both silently withdrew. Other knocks I have heard seemed to be a response to me slamming my truck door when I parked it near an active area. These were single knocks that happened twice in response to my slamming truck door. Perhaps some kind of response to my door slam. EIther in response to an assumed knock or warning to other BF in the area, who may not have heard the door slam, that I was present. I can easily assume from my experience in this context that knocks are a warning, not at me, but for other BF in the area. Other knocks in other context may have different meaning. If I am correct, those that think making knocks will attract BF, might actually be warning them that you are present so other BF can avoid you. I also do not make knocks for that reason.
  39. 1 point
    http://texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com/2015/01/drumming-chimps-and-wood-knocking.html
  40. 1 point
    PG....I don't know about you, but I would predict if I were on a combat patrol in hostile country, saw something on two legs toss something heavy towards me, which landed with a "thud", the last thing I'm thinking is "Oh, that's just a Rock Ape , it's harmless". Umm no. The first thing I'm likely to think is "GRENADE!!!", which is what I will likely scream as I hit the dirt, possibly as I squeeze off a burst in its general direction. As a general rule, I'm guessing it is not advisable to toss heavy objects randomly at armed and jittery young men who are expecting trouble at any minute. This is why I'm just conducting this little thought experiment....not sure how, if true, we avoided killing a Rock Ape for a VC or an NVA .
  41. 1 point
    From a truly neutral standpoint I’d form the conclusion that the stories are false.
  42. 1 point
    I have a British friend who is open to most Fortean subjects, loves the idea of ghosts etc. (and says she has seen some herself). Then she absolutely howls at the idea of BF being real, and "it's all guys in suits". I don't know if she can really conceive of the wilderness over here, and how vast and untapped much of it is; I grew up on the edge of a boreal forest that is larger than western Europe. I think she simply can't conceive of the environment, or how that kind of isolation is possible, because it's so far from what she knows. I think pop culture doesn't help. In the sixties and seventies there was a surge of interest in "weird" subjects: astrology, meditation, UFOs, reincarnation, and so on, and Bigfoot kind of got swept up in that, so it's always seemed a little bit "out there". A lot of those counterculture interests became very mainstream but in the absence of another blockbuster like the PGF, it was easy to sweep the whole Biggie subject into the kookoo bin and dismiss it. I think the [Not] Finding Bigfoot show didn't help. Full disclosure, I have only ever seen a couple of episodes, but quickly grew tired of the reality-show editing and all the other cliches, like the gang going "Sshh! Hear that?!" while the producers add big booming drum music to add drama (and drown out whatever they thought they heard). Hard pass. It wasn't the handling the subject needed or deserved. Finally, I think the elephant in the room is the paranormal/high strangeness angle. Even as a kid in the, let's call it a distant decade, I remember reading a BF book that my dad or someone had lying around and even then, they were mentioning UFO sightings in BF hotspots and linking the two. We are all familiar with the paranormal vs biological paradigms so I won't plant any flags, but I will point out that the paranormal or spiritual angle has been there for a long time, and we don't see that too often with other cryptids. Maybe it's because the critter is so humanlike, that some want to give it spiritual or extradimensional attributes, I don't know. I can't imagine anyone claiming a psychic link with Ogopogo, can you? Edited to add: for myself, I have always seen the creature as a real, biological entity that eats and poops and walks around, and which has been known to native people for hundreds of years. No more, no less. However, I'm also fascinated by how the phenomenon of Bigfoot is a big enough tent to seat everyone: biologists, pro- and anti-kill, those who believe in it as a psychic or transdimensional being, etc.
  43. 1 point
    I would rather carry a Glock 10mm and a spare mag, a belt knife and ditch everything else..... I can whack grouse over the head and spit them on a fire. And use pine duff and fir boughs to crawl under at night to sleep. That stubbornness can get you killed.
  44. 1 point
    You have a good point. Prior to the last two decades there was a lot of logging in National Forests. Now it is a fraction of that. I think logging is perhaps the most disruptive thing we do to BF habitat. If could be that the tree huggers are inadvertently improving habitat for BF. Certainly deer and elk populations are a factor. If bear numbers are increasing it is a good indicator than another omnivore might be benefiting also. Wolf increases may be a problem factor for that. Deer populations plummet when wolves increase.
  45. 1 point
    If you have a real body and your goal is public acceptance and whatever else comes with (which I do not), I would not rely on Dr. Meldrum or any current BF expert. Nothing personal, but I am more of a control freak and just don't trust the current BF establishment. I think your best choice is to book an interview with GMA or something similar for the reveal. You will need to make a very public, big splash before the authorities can react and get way ahead of the bad PR that is sure to follow. Make sure Drudge has deatiled pics to be released during the GMA interview, Your second is the most important and would need to be thought out way in advance. I would have an Asian lab do a DNA sequence, blood analysis, and other medical tests in advance and release them after the GMA interview in a drip drip like fashion over the next few weeks. I would also have a good, private lawyer retain the data outside the US. As a courtesy I would send detailed foot pics and measurements to Meldrum as part of Phase 2. And then I would go in to hiding for a year or two. I would also make sure my taxes were paid and bullet proof.
  46. 1 point
    Hi, ShadowBorn! Not sure what you are suggesting. I don't understand how "woo" fits in with barks. Yes, we heard over a dozen "barks" from three directions. Yes, we found prints up there with a 42" stride. But how this fits in with the metaphysical, I don't follow. I am a flesh and blood kind of guy for the most part, at least when it comes to Bigfootery. An "agnostic" when it comes to woo. Not an "atheist" though. That said, I am also open minded enough to try something else. What did you have in mind? we're headed back up there this weekend to go check out the possible "caves" that seem to be indicated on Google Earth. They may be too hard to get to, I don't know. But that is one of the three directions that we heard the sounds coming from. We also want to see if there are any new prints up there that can be cast, as it sounds like one of those "barks" was getting closer to us before we had to boogie.
  47. 1 point
    Back to the Book Cliffs, near the Reservation, escaping 100+ degrees by getting up to 9700 feet. Cool nights to low 50s. Only saw one Muley. Beginning to think there isn't enough water up there to keep a Sas happy. A very quiet night, not even insect sounds, sleeping in the Rover with rear door and windows open. Camp was perched with a panoramic view and again, spent time with binocs watching clearings in the forest below and walking along old trail and forest rd after dusk. Lots of open sagebrush out there too. Camp, facing S : Just below the sagebrush "rim" in font of the truck: Some of the acres sagebrush: Scanning the forest below: And to the N: On the way down:
  48. 1 point
    I apologize for my tardy response Hiflier. I have been thinking about how I might answer your questions (and whether or not I could). 1st a disclaimer: I was educated as a paleobiologist. I have studied fossil invertebrate populations with regard to their specific variations (variations within a species due to ontogeny - that is growth from infant to adolescent to adult), parasitism by competing organisms, and evolutionary considerations as they impact our understanding of the genus, family, and order classifications in a particular class of invertebrates. I have taken graduate level courses in genetics and evolution (but a long time ago - invertebrate zoology was one of my two minor subjects), BUT I AM NOT A GENETICIST! So take what I might say with some healthy skepticism - and I welcome discussion from real geneticists (and I am guessing from your questions that you already know most, if not all, of what I am going to say). Some good news: With regard to DNA, hair is amazingly stable in a variety of environments that would be considered risky in other respects. That is mainly due to the presence of cuticle, the outermost hard layer of a three-layered hair shaft (inner medulla, medial cortex, outer cuticle). The cuticle protects the medulla, and the medulla contains a lot of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Some bad news: Nuclear DNA (nDNA or nuDNA) is lost in the process of cornification - in which protein cells become hair. Although many people think that a follicle needs to be attached to a hair shaft for extraction of nDNA, nDNA has occasionally been extracted from the medulla of a hair shaft - sometimes months or even years after the hair has been pulled/shed from a human body - I guess this should be included under the "good news". In most cases the best that one can expect from hair in terms of DNA is mtDNA. mtDNA is not pertinent for ID'ing individuals, but works for ID'ing species (if that species' genome is included in an existing gene bank - and it should be useful as a match for higher classifications as well, such as genus, subfamily, and family). According to at least two hair experts, Sasquatch hair commonly lacks a medulla, and, when present, the Sasquatch medulla is discontinuous and not prominent. A number of mtDNA studies of purported Sasquatch hair have suggested Homo sapiens, and the natural conclusion is human contamination. There are a variety of methods for decontaminating DNA samples, and actually hair, again because of the protective cuticle, is especially prone to successful decontamination. As I have said in other threads, there exist in all know human DNA (ALL HUMAN DNA) genetic markers that are unique to Homo sapiens, so any DNA researcher looking to verify human contamination or to suggest the existence of other than human DNA, must look for one, or a few, of those markers, else he/she is falling short of performing adequate study (trying to be kind here to past researchers - I would rather say #*&@&%$*!). I think study of suspected Sasquatch hair is worth study, without regard to external environmental challenges and without regard to time in environment. I am not like the body of posters on this site (mainly inductive reasoners - some brilliant, some notsomuch) that can run through a myriad of explanations and possibilities addressing a single data point. I am admittedly not brilliant - I am a plodder. I try to gather a lot of data and methodically work through that data to try to understand it (that's a tough thing in this Sasquatch world containing a fair bit of purely anecdotal data). If I were confronted with testing old hair for DNA or making the determination no to do so because conclusive results might be unlikely, I would say do the analysis - one never knows what might turn up (my experience has been the more one learns, the more one realizes there is more to learn). I had planned to address your questions more directly, but I am running out of gas. The subject does interest me, however, and I look forward to more communication with you.
  49. 1 point
    It just blows me away every time I watch it- and always has. The whole idea that she was real is so incredible to think about. I have looked and studied that film clip nine ways to Sunday and my conclusions are always the same. I was a 51% for- 49% against Patty's existence (a real fence sitter) until I began to focus on her shoulder movements. Once I realized how natural her arm locations and arm swings were the thought crossed my mind to see if I could determine her shoulder span- following in Dr. Grover Krantz' footsteps without even knowing it. Once I saw the ratio of her shoulder width to her height her reality became cemented in my thinking. And let me tell you, that realization was a real shock.
  50. 1 point
    Hello Georgerm, I'll save you the trouble: At Watson Bay, two men in fishboat saw a small ape on beach. One shot at it and they think wounded it. There was blood on the snow. They were afraid to follow the tracks in the snow, which are not described in the report. They were running a trap line at the time. Informant was camping with others (nothing specified, but uses "we") when they were awakened by the sound and feel of something running nearby. They shone a flashlight and saw something grey, 8 feet high and heavily built standing erect near a tree. Its eyes appeared large and wide-set. Someone shot in its general direction and it was heard going into the bush. They had been camped about three days, near the South Fork of the Trinity River, and there was buried garbage and food around. Jim Kunkle and a friend were spotlighting for deer in the vicinity of Triangle Lake. They saw several deer running down a hillside "like bats outa hell". They had never seen deer act like that, especially at night, so they flashed the light around the hillside and saw what they said was a "Bigfoot", no description. They fired 30 or 40 rounds from .22's at it, and it turned and fled over the hill flailing its arms as if to repel a swarm of flies. A thorough search of the area next morning turned up nothing. John Gates, George Robinson, Gregg Proctor and Pat Condon were hiking into the mountains for a week. At the top of a crevasse at the end of a canyon they heard a crashing in the brush, then saw something massive staring at them from about 20 feet above. Thought it was a bear until it took a four inch branch and lifted it about 3 feet with one hand to get a better look. Shouted to scare it off without effect, then fired .22's over its head and it took off. So did they. They were headed for Crater Lake (small lake not on map) and thought they were close to it. Incident 1000854, same witnesses, same trip, indicates they were South of Skykomish. A sheriff's officer from Bellingham recorded over his police radio a scream heard by Sgt. Ken Cooper at close range. When the tape of this scream was played in the gravel pit, Sam Cooper saw a sasquatch appear and walk towards the car. He shot and it took off. The scream was heard at 8 p.m. Nov 1, at Chief Martin Road. In other incidents, three dogs were reported killed by bites in the throat, and a horse received a mysterious, serious, tear in its neck while in the barn. A woman and her son at their home near Weston, by the city's water treatment plant, sitting on the front porch at night when the woman noted a strong odour, and noticed a huge shape just beyond the porch light. The son got a shotgun, thinking it was a bear, and fired at point blank range. Only effect was that the creature ran off on two legs. Later they found their St. Bernard cowering in its doghouse. Informant and his nephew fishing the Collowash River, camped for the night on a gravel bank, nephew asleep, informant heard something crunching through the gravel, and a very large form came into the firelight, apparently indifferent to his presence. It was about 8 feet tall, very heavy, covered with red brown hair. He got a good look at it by firelight and then by flashlight. He then fired three shots with a .22 pistol, the creature screamed and went over a huge log into the timber. Next day could find no suitable ground to show footprints. Log was waist high and hard to climb over. Creature had a nauseating smell, and made a wheasing sound as it breathed. An old story on the B.C. coast, heard by William Freeman from his father. Billy Hall, hunting with another man, saw two animals in an opening in the mountainside and shot, killing one. The other one took it by the shoulders and tried to revive it. Hall fled and the animal came after him. He reached the beach, where his partner had fallen asleep in their canoe, and launched the canoe, partner and all, all by himself. No description of animals given, but Freeman was talking about apes. There are other versions of this story. William Freeman's father lived at Kemano at the time. Out varmint hunting, Lyle Bingaman shot at what they thought was a bear that had just come out of the trees and it dropped on the spot. They struggled to get to it in about 4 feet of snow, reached it as it started to get dark. It had a monkey-like face, no claws, hands hairy but not palms, eyes open, no pronounced muzzle, nose flat like gorilla, face bare around mouth, brownish hair with light tips, very long. Doesn't remember ears or neck. They got worried that it was something valuable that belonged to someone, and they left. Bingaman told Roger Patterson in a phone call that it was 7 feet tall. Bruce McKelvie, an journalist and historian who had a file of sasquatch reports, was interviewed by John Green and Rene Dahinden about 1957. He said that a friend of his had shot and killed a sasquatch, but he was not free to give further information. See 1000761 George Tallio on his trap line on the mountainside east of South Bentinck Arm, saw a huge creature stand up from behind the trunk of a fallen tree. He shot at it with a small calibre rifle, it fell back and he fled. He had gone that way out of curiosity after noticing a lot of moss having been stripped off a rock face. He found that the moss had been used to cover a great pile of fecal matter. Several boys returned to scene of earlier sighting (Incident 1000293) more than once. David Churchill dates this incident the first night after. Dennis Taylor tape indicates it was the second night. Taylor says the creatures, (three seen one night) came through a cut from the higher ground to the south each night and went down to the river. They could be heard walking on the loose rocks. The youths, once as many as 13, would try to ambush them on the way back, with whatever hunting rifles, etc. they could bring. On this occasion, (combining two accounts that don't mesh exactly) two creatures had come down, and Taylor and Churchill found one crouched under the low limbs of a large tree. Churchill shot it twice, with a 12-guage shotgun from about 10 feet away, and it rolled over twice, got up and ran through a 4-strand wire fence, taking out three posts. Next morning took pictures of the tree and the broken fence. Tried to follow tracks and blood droppings, but managed only 100 yards. Location is given as Trates Point, gravel pit area. Churchill filled out another computer form for another sighting the same night, about 4.30 a.m. Taylor tells of later sightings, stopping only when one of the creatures came up close behind a group of youths who were not aware of it until it made a noise leaving. After that they stayed away. Clifford Heronemus, Robert Davis, Carl Martinez and David Chiaramonte driving at 45 miles an hour, had a five foot, seven inch hairy creature running on two legs keeping pace. One of them shot it and it fell down, but got up and ran off. No blood. Couldn't be a person, Heronemus said, they can't move that fast. Phil Snow and Ray Rhodes were duck hunting in the marshland and tidal flats between Highway 101 and San Francisco Bay, walking on wooden catwalks raised about 3 feet over the marsh to provide access to power lines etc. Rhodes told Snow that a big dark hairy thing ran out from under a catwalk and down a muddy slough. In panic he shot it in the back with his 12-guage shotgun. It screamed but kept going at a fast pace, high-stepping on two legs, more of a fast walk than a run. He fled. Ridley (first name forgotten) and another young Indian saw an ape on an island near Hartley Bay and shot at it. It screamed like a woman and fled. Next day they found blood, but no tracks. Two boys, Brian Lebreton and Leonard Hall, camping out at the Trates Point gravel quarry, planning to hunt rabbits in the morning, claim that a huge, heavy, dark-haired creature noved around on top of the bank above them, watching them. They shot it repeatedly with a 12-guage shotgun but with no result except that it went "ump". Tom Brown was present as a child at Kwakwa, where Klemtu people once lived on the west side of Swindle Island (Indian Reserve 7) when the adults heard a noise of something walking in the shallow water, and saw and shot at a sasquatch, using rifles, shotguns and a revolver. He did not see it but heard it scream. They thought it fell in the water but nothing was there in the morning. A few days after sighting by boy (1001233) an elderly man living on Engleville Hill went out with gun and flashlight to see why his dog was barking, saw an 8-foot monster standing in his garden, shot at it and ran. The creature screamed and started after him, putting a hairy paw through his door window. The man was found unconscious on the floor, and his German Shepherd had been ripped apart. Large 3-toed footprints were found in the area. Captain Owens, steamboat pilot from Nanaimo, told by John Fraser at Union Bay that local Indians in a canoe had seen what they thought was a bear on the beach between Union Bay and Comox. One man fired at it and it straightened up, yelled, and ran upright into the woods. It was covered with hair. Had been digging clams when they fired. Informant told Bob Titmus that he and two other Indians were trapping in Khutze Inlet when they saw an ape on the south shore of the inlet. They were travelling by boat at the time. Nyce shot at it with a shotgun and it ran into the woods, screaming. Credibility problem, see 1000309 Joe Bayless told Bob Betts that when he was staying at the home of a prospecting partner, Jack Riffe, 2.5 miles out of Creswell, he went outside with a 30-30 to see why there was a commotion in the horse corral about 11 p.m. on a moonless hight. At about 50 feet he noticed an 8-foot object in the corral and dropped down to try to silhouette it, seeing a stocky human form. He fired a shot to scare it, but it screamed and jumped the 6-foot corral fence. He fired again as it disappeared in the trees. Next morning Bayless, Riffe and some other men found manlike tracks estimated 20 inches long, and quite a bit of blood. They followed a blood trail a half mile. See 1001411 Prospectors Robbins and Benson were developing a "gold ledge" above a spring beyond the head of Star Gulch on the South Fork of the Sixes River. Returning from lunch by the spring they looked back and saw a creature, big, powerful, erect, and covered with yellow fuzz, throwing their camp stuff over a cliff. They fired at it, but without effect and it bounded out of sight. The article refers to "Indian devils" called Swalahists seen by miners, over 6.5 feet tall, heavy jaws, powerful shoulders and torsos, covered with yellowish fur, catlike in action, running and bounding with the swiftness of a deer. A man named 'Doc' Elgin (?) said to have seen one and measured its footprints. (Measurements and part of name illegible.) Story quotes the Myrtle Point Enterprise saying that the "Wild Man" of the Sixes mining district (this time in Coos County, not Curry County) has been seen three times since March 10. On this occasion "a few days ago", it shook the door of "the Harrison cabin" about 5 a.m. and William Ward and one of the Harrison boys grabbed their guns. Ward fired at it, and it threw a four pound rock at him before disappearing in the brush. Its aim was high. "Thompson Flat" occupied by William Ward and a young man named Burlison. They heard it walking around the cabin, and at on corner it gave the building a vigorous shake--all the time making a frightful noise. Ward went to the door, saw it walking away and shot at it, but missed. No description in this incident, but story gives a general description of what miners have been reporting for past 10 years, something like a gorilla, 7 feet high, broad hands and feet, body covered with a prolific growth of hair, can outrun and outjump anything else, and throw rocks with great force and accuracy. Story quotes the Myrtle Point Enterprise saying that the "Wild Man" of the Sixes mining district (this time in Coos County, not Curry County) has been seen three times since March 10, when it appeared at night at a cabin on "Thompson Flat" occupied by William Ward and a young man named Burlison. They heard it walking around the cabin, and at on corner it gave the building a vigorous shake--all the time making a frightful noise. Ward went to the door, saw it walking away and shot at it, but missed. No description in this incident, but story gives a general description of what miners have been reporting for past 10 years, something like a gorilla, 7 feet high, broad hands and feet, body covered with a prolific growth of hair, can outrun and outjump anything else, and throw rocks with great force and accuracy. Five men were working on a prospect in a canyon on the headwaters of the Muddy River, ever since known as Ape Canyon. They were Marion Smith, his son Roy, his son-in-law Fred Beck, Gabe Lefever and John Peterson. They had occasionally seen large barefoot prints by creek beds and springs while prospecting in the Mount St. Helens area, the largest 19 inches long. Prior to the first sighting they had been hearing shrill whistles in the evening for about a week, with answering whistles from ridge to ridge. On July 10 Marion Smith and Fred Beck went to a spring for water and Smith spotted an ape about 100 yards away on the other side of a little canyon, standing by a pine tree. It dodged behind the tree and poked its head out. Smith fired three times, grazing the bark. The creature ran off down the canyon, seen again 200 yards away, where Beck fired at it three times. That night the cabin was attacked from outside. It had no windows, so the attackers were not seen. Many rocks were apparenty thrown at the cabin during the night, some coming down the chimney into the fireplace. At the start a wooden strip used for chinking was knocked out. At one point a hairy arm reached through the gap left between the logs and grabbed an axe, but the head jammed and Smith shot along the handle. The axe was retrieved. The following morning the men planned to get out, leaving all their supplies and equipment. Beck saw an ape standing about 80 yards away near the edge of the canyon and shot at it three times. It fell into the gorge, about 400 feet down. At the Spirit Lake ranger station Marion Smith told the story to the ranger, and at home in Kelso he told some friends. Many people went to the site, and large four-toed prints were found. (Two incident entries, for July 10 and July 11.) Eldon Siepert phoned to tell of experiences logging and road building near Paskenta, Cal., in the summers of 1965 and 66, with (I think) Marvin Coleman Construction, working out of Proberta, and going 30 to 50 miles back in the Coast Range. Their road ran through a canyon between two mountains. Tracks 13 to 17 inches long were seen on the road every few days. He saw some himself. Prints were about three walking steps apart. There was a missing toe or deformity on the left foot. The tracks ended at the creek bank. Several men told of seeing a large, dark, hairy creature that always ran erect. The water wagon driver saw it in the twilight or early morning. One man took a shot at it and a lot carried guns in their trucks. Animals were found torn apart and partly eaten, and feces were found containing remains of berries or nuts. When Seipert phoned, date not recorded, he was no longer logging, but in the real estate business. (Since many incidents were involved this report will be entered twice, to cover the different months, years and times of day, and to give different credibility ratings for the tracks and the sightings.) ran. Eldon Siepert phoned to tell of experiences logging and road building near Paskenta, Cal., in the summers of 1965 and 66, with (I think) Marvin Coleman Construction, working out of Proberta, and going 30 to 50 miles back in the Coast Range. Their road ran through a canyon between two mountains. Tracks 13 to 17 inches long were seen on the road every few days. He saw some himself. Prints were about three walking steps apart. There was a missing toe or deformity on the left foot. The tracks ended at the creek bank. Several men told of seeing a large, dark, hairy creature that always ran erect. The water wagon driver saw it in the twilight or early morning. One man took a shot at it and a lot carried guns in their trucks. Animals were found torn apart and partly eaten, and feces were found containing remains of berries or nuts. When Seipert phoned, date not recorded, he was no longer logging, but in the real estate business. (Since many incidents were involved this report will be entered twice, to cover the different months, years and times of day, and to give different credibility ratings for the tracks and the sightings.) ran. Roger True, Greg Pointer and other youths from Richland went repeatedly at night to look for the "white demon", a biped covered with dirty white hair, about 8 feet tall, very heavily built, that frequented a disused gravel pit near West Richland, dug into the side of "old flattop". It was shot at close range several times with deer rifles and at least once with a shotgun without apparent effect. Weight estimates 600 or 700 pounds. Seen repeatedly by groups of youths. Never on all fours. Greg Pointer told of seeing it walking across a field at 10 to 15 miles an hour, not running at all. He also said others had timed it at 40 miles an hour as it chased their cars. Carl Franklin's brother from Seattle (Jim?) had it scratch the door of his car. Eyes shone red in the dark with no light on them. High pitched scream was described by others. Tracks were left 16 to 18 inches long, like a wide human foot. Roger True said that he hit it at least twice with a .270 rifle and that his friend Tom Thompson shot it at 10 yards with a 12-guage shotgun and "didn't faze it at all." Another group of youths had seen it earlier in the summer at Sawyer, near Yakima, where they were picking fruit. Spending night in remote cabin in Taneum Creek canyon, heard something walk up and try locked door. Out window as lights of friend's approaching car lit area saw a dark form running off through the trees on two legs, and emptied clip of rifle at it without effect. Strong stench left behind. Had friend drive them to Idaho for the night. Two boys playing outside at their ranch, located between the Yakima Indian Reservation and the Columbia River, not far from The Dalles, towards Mount Adams. Older boy, Mike, thought he saw a bear among the scrub oaks on the hillside, ran in house for .22 rifle. When he got back the creature had moved closer. It was upright, 8 or 9 feet tall, no neck and a flat face. It turned to run and he fired one shot, which he believes hit shoulder. Mother went out later and saw three sets of large, round, yellow-green eyes some distance from the house, and saw something large moving in the shadows. Creatures seen occasionally in the yard in following months. Horses injuring themselves running into barbed wire fences. Doberman dogs acting panicky. Typical 5-toed sasquatch prints occasionally found in the yard. Eventually people and domestic animals all lost their fear. Mother says the creatures are mimics, and will answer whistle with whistle, and imitate birds and animals. No screams or growls. Strong sulphur smell at times. Thumps on house and scratching on screens followed by sound of heavy running feet. Once a big black face peering in the window--leaning down from above into the upper edge of a window seven feet high at the top. Food left out for them not taken. A spring in the back yard of the ranch is the only water source within a mile during dry periods. No adult males at the ranch in this period. A group of young people hanging around a swimming hole, informant playing a guitar. Looked up and saw a huge creature standing on a small **** back of the swimming hole, watching them. It was slightly stooped, hair-covered, had light-coloured, apelike face. Someone shot at it repeatedly with a .22 rifle, with no effect, then they all ran. Of course, there's more.....
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