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I don't think that's automatically a strange question. It is something we should be thinking about .. society-wise, not just bigfooters. I think the best answer is "it depends." There are some really bad assumptions built into the question, assumptions that should be examined. First thing .. what we consider "normal" is not historical normal. (1) Transpiration creates a downwind moisture plume which allows forest to grow in places it naturally could not. Fire destroys not just what it burns, but the downwind moisture plume which "artificially" supports forest in places that would naturally be desert if there were no forest upwind to provide the atmospheric moisture. (2) We have 100 years and more of fire fighting / fire prevention which has altered the natural landscape. Though it is familiar to us, it is not the long term norm and it is not "natural." Complicating things further, the Native Americans / First Nations people deliberately altered the environment / landscape with large scale fire. Because they seem to have arrived before deglaciation, there probably has not been a "natural" environment, one not altered by human activity, since before the last glacial maximum. Data suggest we are in a period of rapid climate change. Second thing .. forest regrowth is though a progression of stages. Once forest is lost, we get grasslands / brush, smaller trees, etc before big trees return. This can take centuries, not decades, not years, and given changing climate conditions, I'm not sure we will have periods between fires long enough for the cycle to complete, we seem to be looking at forest -> burn -> brush -> burn -> brush -> burn -> brush .. etc. We .. in my area .. are getting much more frequent dry lighting and large fires than we have ever had in recorded history. The opportunities for mature forest to re-form under these conditions seem nil. In fact it seems the only chance of restoration is via human intervention, not via natural processes. This situation seems likely to last for centuries, maybe tens of centuries, and the new equilibrium, if there is one, won't be the one we're used to. I suspect much of North America, if humans just vanished, would turn into a land of brush and grasses with very little "reclamation" by forest as we know it because of the increased rate of lightning fires driven by global warming. Once turned to brush and grasses, it is very difficult to return to forest because conditions don't last enough years in a row for that to happen. IMHO of course! MIB

Yep. I would probably eat it if I had to. It's legal to eat road-kill here although, I usually just go to the store. Although, with the cuts in food-safety (including a 19% reduction to the FDA work-force) a squished squirrel or, a drowned rat doesn't sound too bad right now.. "No doubt, but Norse is correct that Science as an industry will simply not play ball until somebody delivers a carcass and essentially rubs their noses in it." I agree that Universities, most private companies, governments, etc. are not going to really get involved until Joe six-pack, wife and kids are convinced that they exist. 'Science' is often done by people who are unencumbered by those institutions. I don't know the best way to prove Bigfoot. I think one (or two, if Norse insists ) could be captured alive. I mean if we can capture elephants and whale sharks?? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Regarding the Cerruti site mastadon bones purportedly dated to 130,000 years ago .. mainstream science has the ability to determine whether the scratches / notches in the bone were made 130K years ago when the bone was fresh vs recently when they were being dug up. This is the study of taphonomy. Those markings / scraping / etc are NOT recent effects of the earth moving machinery, those markings were made while the bones were still fresh. That does not settle the question of who / what did them but it does settle the question of when the markings were made. Maybe, or maybe lacking technology, they saw solutions that our reliance on technology trips over?

Wow, xspider1 and Norseman. What a debate that has been civil and neither party has backed down even during the most intense language at proving bigfoot is a real monster. It seems both of you have proved bigfoot is a monster. Seems like most of the audience has backed off while you two have carried on a debate that would heat metal to the bending point. One of the main points that is still not clear is does it take a deceased bigfoot male and female body to prove the existence of bigfoot? Do we agree bigfoot is a real living animal and a new species? Does DNA make the distinction between myth and real living monster? Presently what is the status of bigfoot ............................. myth or monster? Has enough evidence been brought forth for proof of the bigfoot with its own species name? What is the present status of bigfoot? Some claim bigfoot is a myth that can disappear and is abducted by aliens and delivered to Earth's forest.

I've never watched a bear drag anything away, but have run across lots of their buried treasures (I really don't like that.........). But one of the most impressive things I've seen (more than once) is a grizzly running for its life as I entered the valley or area (they heard or smelled me/us coming).........especially in the fall when they're fat and their fur is thickening for winter, and their hide moves like Patty's in the PGF. Bears can really cover territory!

I had to dig real deep for this bad boy, nearly 15 years deep in fact but i found it. I'm still adamant that he got his locations mixed up too, and i'm gonna send this to Aleks..

Not so sure. Many whistleblowers have been threatened. And some scientists have disappeared. Is this a grassroots movement to get the truth to the public? Or some red flag event where the government is purposely leaking stuff while acting tough? Dunno. 1) No it wouldn’t. You can point to the child sized pilot chairs but mainstream Science will still want proof. The military is using scientists too. But they are not allowed to publish findings to peer reviewed publications. Part of science is now dark. And has been since the bomb. What else are they hiding in there? 2) Any scientist that can get their work published and accepted in a peer reviewed publication. But if your work happens to pertain with above top secret research? We know who the real boss is. Dr. Gary Nolan has stated they are building a retrieval team to beat the military out to these crash sites. All I can say is? Good Luck! 👀 You and I both agree something funky is going on with Bigfoot as well. Someone doesn’t want them discovered for what ever the reason.

Talked to the last land owner we worked for in Nespelem. He is of the Moses clan. I had rodeo’d in Nespelem in 89, and was asking about a kid that beat me chute dogging. He was first and I was second. The conversation somehow got to him asking me if I believed in Bigfoot. I told him the snow track story at our ranch. He told me that they were afraid after dark. And that one time they had found a Colt that had been ripped in half. Something had grabbed the hind legs and had just wishbone it in half. He always got ansy hunting and shot something and while tracking it, it got dark. The Bigfoot cutout on top of Disautel pass survived the fire. Amazing to me how people there have Bigfoot at the fore front of their minds much more so than a cross section of the white population. Other than the tracks I observed? I was raised with both Colville and Spokane Indians and I am sure they have rubbed off on me.

That hits the nail on the head. (And, thank-you for summarizing the affects that your encounters have had for you. Much appreciated.) Something funny is going on! Of that, I am 99.9% sure. There is just no way that an otherwise 'normal' biological creature of the reported sizes can exist and, remain unclassified after all these years, without something(s) 'funny' going on. This is a good thread, in my opinion. We can be civil here and honestly explore what may be the cause(s) for the lack of Scientific acceptance/classification. When I joined the BFF, it was stated that the official stance of the BBF was basically that Bigfoot are a biological animal, similar to Gorillas, Humans, etc. except in perhaps their size and elusiveness. And, as time went by, I never really understood why so many people categorically reject the idea that there may be (and most likely are) characteristics of Bigfoot that are beyond the current Scientific paradigms. In fact, if you accept that many witnesses are seeing something(s) matching the criteria, it seems undeniable that they must defy our current understandings. As a side note: I live in the middle of a big city, on a busy road. Yet, my backyard is interesting because it becomes almost rural when you step out the back door. And (not to imply too much into how this may affect this current discussion), I have seen unusual wildlife out there. One night about 15 years ago when it was just about to get fully dark, I saw the silhouette of some kind of gigantic bird fly by. We have barred owls and some hawks and a few eagles, but this thing had like a 6-7 foot wing-span and it flew right by me! I imagine that any Ornithologist would probably say 'No, you must be mistaken, there are no birds of that size anywhere around there' but, I know what I saw. Point being: no one really knows anything, until they know.

We can't honestly, with any integrity, call it proof until mainstream science accepts existence of bigfoot. That is what PROOF means. There is no real proof but scientific proof, any lesser proof is not proof, "proof" is the wrong word for that whether it is used from ignorance, illiteracy, or just stubborn malice. There is no way around this. You seem to not understand what "proof" means. You're trying to change the definition / refusing to use the existing definition. Best of luck convincing anyone but yourself with that.

Ever hear of Bush Meat?

No doubt, but Norse is correct that Science as an industry will simply not play ball until somebody delivers a carcass and essentially rubs their noses in it. And I submit that is just one of the reasons why government has decided that the best thing for them as a species is to remain a myth. And frankly, it's my opinion that aliens are science fiction, and Science (as an industry) is playing ball on that field because every base hit equals Big Money, government is managing game for spinoff technology, and the taxpayer plays because they have no choice.

It seems pretty clear to me that the genetic evidence found in populations in the Amazon basin indicate the route to the populating of the Americas was both through Beringia and by seafaring Pacific Islanders who most likely made landfall on the western coast a long time before them. There is no reason to believe it had to be one or the other. Really, there may have been even more migrations we only speculate about now. This idea that a whole continent of land and resources was just laying open and unexploited until only 13k years ago is a quaint one. Anatomically modern humans at least 200,000 years ago were probably exploring the planet by any means available, and they had technologies we don’t give them credit for. We look at the vastness of the Pacific and we can’t wrap our head around people being able to make those jumps over the vast distances required. People do surprising and amazing things and we don’t give them the same credit we give ourselves.

I believe 90%-95%+ of the Bigfoot eyewitness reports are seeing something real with only about 1-5% being outright liars and hoaxers. What I struggle with is not being sure what they saw. Is it a bear? Is it some other misidentification? That part of my brain I will call the BAD COP Then the GOOD COP part of my brain tells me, "Do you really think ALL of these people- every single one is wrong? Are they all mistaken?!" The GOOD COP part of me understands there only needs to be one of these reports to be real for Bigfoot to be real. Just one single report. For those who have had an encounter please forgive my struggle between the GOOD COP and BAD COP. I have never had such an encounter and honestly would never want to until Bigfoot in the public is a well-establish universal fact.

Thanks, georgerm. I do try to be civil and Norse has a great deal of pertinent, real life experience and knowledge regarding Science and primate biology. We just have a fundamental difference: kill vs no-kill. (That's been going on for decades. lol) I never meant to hi-jack your thread and I think it's a really good one! I will only add that Monsters, by definition, are imaginary or mythical. I don't really agree with that definition because I think there are definitely Monsters on Earth, but we do need a standard of Semantics (as Norse pointed out) that we can either agree on, or that we are forced to accept either way. Bigfoot are scary, no doubt about that. Humans are very scary too, we are The Alpha predator. We can (and probably should) kill anything that threatens us without cause. But, given a choice not to kill Bigfoot just in order to convince Science (and to convince people who know everything already anyway) seems like the best approach to me.

Stay safe!

Just got called out to the little giant fire over by Chelan. Take care family!👍🔥

You have suggested many times that they are prone to ripping people's arms off and then beating people to death with their own arms? In one sentence you equate them as just another animal, with the same habits, diet, etc. as other non-human apes and then in the next sentence you say we are not dealing with 'just another animal'. You know their temperament, their diet, the way they hunt and basically seem to consider them to be almost just like a giant chimp. You really don't know if they hibernate, or not, right? Science tends to avoid assumptions, Norse. It does matter to some of us how they die, just not to you. Many type specimens are parts of animals, definitely not complete skeletons of both male and female. Your mileage obviously varies, but invoking 'Science' as if those who disagree just don't get it, doesn't work.

BTW the Disautel pass Sasquatch survived the fire! https://okanogancountry.com/poi/sasquatch-disautel-pass

If Sasquatch can pack a full grown man and his gear up and down the Cascade brambles at 15 mph? I guess that would explain a lot. Because we can never catch up to the hide and seek champion! My mules fully loaded averaged 3 mph in the mountains on a trail. Average load with pack saddle was 250-350 lbs depending on what was taking place. We often were heavier on the way out if we had scored an Elk. To avoid making several trips. 30 miles was a very very long day. 15 mph with a 300 lbs ”pack” off trail is absolutely smoking fast…. And Bigfoot is allegedly 800 lbs and my mules were between 1200 and 1400 lbs. So very fast and very very strong for its size. 800 lbs is the size of a large Pony. Or a Bull Elk. But if your whole life is about killing something and packing it back to a cave or hidden canyon? They gotta get it done somehow. And Grizzly are gonna come sniffing around. The best defense would be distance.

If the Washington DOT has caught it on FLIR cameras? The Feds have certainly caught it on all their surveillance.

What isn't so obvious to me is this: Why let their incalcitrant demands dictate my beliefs and activities? Why must I drag them kicking and screaming into what I believe is true? Why not let them rest smugly in their offices and classrooms in proud denial? I'm not responsible to update biology or anthropology. My hope is simply to see a sasquatch in the wild before I die (which is becoming pretty unlikely to occur now).

No, but the original "discovery" of lowland gorillas (a process during the years 1847-1859) came (part and parcel) with a world ideology/struggle that continues to this day: Darwinism.

Until they fall into one category or the other, they don't fall into either. And, if they are never classified, they will never fall into either category. So, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. I read your post (and certainly not trying to call you out, especially since you graciously run the show here and participate intelligently, probably more than anyone else.) But, I still have not seen any indication that a full skeleton of both a male and a female Bigfoot would be required by Science.

I'm fascinated by Homo floresiensis, the "Hobbit" prehistoric human species discovered recently. I believe there's a strong possibility that reports of Orang pendak could have an association with perhaps a remnant population of "Hobbits." What we currently know about Homo floresiensis is that they have a really strange conglomerates of physical characteristics. Could they have been a dwarf species of Homo erectus? or could they be something even more strange? Gutsick Gibbon, her real name Erika, has the 2nd most popular paleo-anthropology channel on YouTube. Here, she digs deeper into the question of just what the Hobbit really was.

Hey y’all, new member here from the Southeast US. Never had an encounter myself but I want to believe.

Ok, how do we know they are extant? I don't really get what Science requires I guess.. A pinky bone for one, a male and a female type specimen for the other? That doesn't seem reasonable but, you will probably tell me that Science doesn't care what is reasonable, they just demand what they must have before they go out on a limb. It's public opinion, their tenure, potential ridicule, problems at home, etc. that hold most of them back, in my opinion. When our Government released the 'UFO files' did that prove the existence of extra-terrestrial space craft to Science? Too many people just don't care about anything that they perceive as not directly affecting them, especially if it requires them to think.

Those are totally valid points/questions. I think we can only speak for ourselves and, as for me: Success at looking for Bigfoot would be seeing one or more in a situation that provided undeniable confidence that I was seeing the creature(s) that have already been described thousands of times. The sighting would need to be unambiguous and, it would be great if there was at least one other person present so that, if nothing else, we could talk about it. (I had such an experience with a 'UFO' decades ago, but I was alone in my truck. I have always been grateful for that experience because it broadened my horizons, even though I can't say if it was an Alien spacecraft, or not. It was definitely an unidentifiable flying object, beyond the scope of anything that I can imagine to be man-made.) For others, perhaps the majority of the BFF membership, success only means one thing: Scientific Acceptance and Classification. I get that, but if a Bigfoot body on a slab is required and one cannot be obtained without deliberately killing one then, it would not be worth it, in my opinion. And, if I see a Thylacine, I'm not going to shoot that either. I would tell my story, just as I did with the UFO and as I would with Bigfoot then, whoever didn't believe me or, thought I was crazy, could take a long walk off a short bridge. lol

I think of Anna Nikaris discovery of an unknown animal. The interest isn’t that it looked like bigfoot. The issue is the animal existed but was undiscovered until recently. To me the animal doesn’t have to be impressive. The principal of discovery makes it impressive. Dr Nikaris even had a lecture with the possibility of Bigfoot existing.

Hi, i'm exited to join.

I think the answer almost has to be a hybrid version of what MIB asked above: "Are there a) lots of bigfoots but they are super sneaky or b) only a few bigfoots but they are fairly clumsy, inept at hiding, so those few are seen fairly frequently?" I propose a possibility c) There are only a few hundred (or, maybe a few thousand) Bigfoot left AND they are super sneaky. How that plays into the sad possibility that they may be on the verge of extinction I don't know. But, I think it's either that, or we are dealing with critters far beyond our current Scientific paradigms. I'm currently about 50-50 between those two options. The only thing I'm 99.9% sure of is that Bigfoot exist and that they have, and probably still do, walk on planet Earth.

I want to throw out a random thought, a question I ponder now and then. Are there a) lots of bigfoots but they are super sneaky or b) only a few bigfoots but they are fairly clumsy, inept at hiding, so those few are seen fairly frequently? I mean, pretty simple logic .. either option produces a similar number of reports. Since many reports occur in clusters / flurries, then there's nothing in that area again for years, maybe bigfoot is not so uncatchable after all, they're just even more rare than we give them credit for? If they are traveling pretty fast that might account for the "report chasers" always being late, never finding a bigfoot when they arrive. Dunno, just one of those mental tin cans I kick around when I have nothing useful to think about.

Could be. I’d say the older I get the longer I go without seeing a debunking of the PGF. Could be a hoax. But the longer I go without seeing a strong hoax case being made the more it suggests Roger and Bob may have really “got the sucker” One can be real but the Government involvement is not required.

Stellar thought the lights were off and the party over

That is an insightful question. I saw what I saw, I know what I know. Though convincing to me, because I was there observing, not merely hearing the account afterwards, I would be disappointed if anyone looked at my sighting accounts as anything other than "just another anecdote" so far as "proof" goes. I don't even have a picture to back them up with. That makes them, frankly, pretty weak sauce so far as proving anything at all. I hope that for someone already convinced by some other body of evidence, they are interesting and maybe educational, maybe fill in some gaps. At least for a couple of the tracks I do have pictures. They are open to interpretation. For interested individuals, they might well be interesting / educational, but I have no delusions that those constitute proof either. They'd barely make the grade as serious evidence. Same for the audio. All are most useful as interesting data points for those who are interested. They should never be thought of as proof or even as strong evidence. Does this make sense? I hope so, hope it gives some context for how I see my own meager "offerings."

You make some very good points in regard to Jacko and if correct the story was repeated in some newspaper. I will do some research to find out what newspaper. If it was written about, there is a chance that the author created a fantastical story about a supposed ape. There is also a 50% chance that the story is true and some unidentified primate was found on the railroad tracks and captured. I will do some research to find more information on Jacko. Let's not throw the report in the trash can yet. Let's allow a chance that the story is true. By the way your post is very informative, well written, and an interesting read.

Hello there, I’m a long time believer since my uncle told me stories of the forest people and extra terrestrial life when I was growing up. Recently, I moved from San Francisco to Salem, Oregon and now have locations close enough to visit. Oh, my name is Brianne and I have an awesome K9-American that I bring on all my adventures with me. Can’t wait to chat!

Excellent interview, Daniel!

Agreed this is a great interview. Very timely considering the upcoming supposed release of the Capturing Bigfoot piece. Mr Perez’ book, Bigfoot at Bluff Creek, is excellent. I consider it a must read for those of us who want a complete breakdown of the Patterson Gimlin Film and all its history. Mr Perez was able to tie all the loosely connected dangling threads (people, places, things) into a cohesive explanation of the timeline of events and evidence surrounding the film.

Excellent interview with Daniel. I'll be sending off payment for his newsletter forthwith. The comments are gold, the folks buying the caca that the PGF has been "debunked," and disproven are (to me) hilarious.

For a concrete example, the area near Hobson's Horn, a mountain in SW Oregon, burned in 2002. Prior to that, part was still old growth forest. I hunted it in 2014 and got a deer. It had regrown to clumps of brush about chest height with gaps between. There were many fire-hardened snags fallen into the brush. It was easy to see the ground in the gaps and watch animals walk through them. It's 2026 now. I was back there in 2025. The brush has not grown significantly taller since 2014. The clear spaces have closed in some. Another part of the same ridge which connects Hobson's Horn and Silver Peak "hosts" the Silver Peak trail. This burned in 1987's "Silver Fire". It has grown back a little more but from a distance it is still fairly bare with clumpy brush because there is not much water for most of the year and, being in designated federal wilderness, there is no reforestation activity at all. I don't see any natural re-growth of pre-fire species .. douglas fir .. yet. I wouldn't expect to see much improvement for the next 150-200 years. USFS / contractors have done some replanting. These are monoculture "super trees" meant to put on the most cellulose in the least amount of time to prepare for logging and they are not doing well because it is truly too dry for them. They're stunted, some are dying because they are too weak from lack of water to out-run disease and pests. I think something will come back, some portion of them, in maybe 100-125 years, if there is no fire forcing a restart, but they will not be the original trees with the original genetics. Another location, across the main divide toward the Rogue, burned in .. I think it was 1970 or 1971. It has grown back to alder (not the original species there) and heavy brush. The alder is 30-50 feet high in places. There are some cedar / spruce and a very tiny smattering of douglas fir returning but they are 20 feet tall or less. It will be another 25 years, minimum, and more likely 50+, before they are tall enough to begin to choke out the alder and return to pre-burn forest conditions. As long as there isn't another fire, it'll be roughly 100 years between the last fire there and a return to similar-ish conditions. It doesn't mean those areas won't support wildlife. As Norseman points out, that early/middle age forest supports animals .. in fact, it may provide more edibles per acre than mature forest. Much of the old growth left where I grew up .. well, there are 2 kinds. The increase in humidity has allowed some younger trees to reach proportions you'd expect only of pretty ancient forest. Cores of those trees sometimes show growth rings approaching 1 inch across. THen there are the truly old trees, mostly found in sheltered canyons which were surrounded by very dry ridges in older times, and some of those can run 400 - 500 years old or more. If you think about it, even under the most ideal conditions .. no intervening "resets" from fire, etc .. if the original trees took 400-500 years to grow, then their replacements are also going to take 400-500 years to grow.

Hi, My name is Jack and I'm from Massachusetts, I'm new(ish) to the subject and look forward to learning more. Thank you for having me. Can't wait to dive right in!

Hello everyone. My name is Hope. I live in the middle of Michigan's thumb. I've been intrigued by Bigfoot since I was very young.

Buy a compass that has an adjustable declination indicator. I use my Silva Ranger that I kept from the army. It is also graduated in mils, as oppossed to degrees. The NCEI Geomagnetic Calculator (https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml ) can calculate your declination. Adjust the declination indicator on your compass. As long as you orient your map to north when taking your bearing, you're good to go. The declination itself will not noticeably change for a couple hundred miles (kms) in any direction, so the chances of you accidently walkiing off a cliff are slim ... unless you're in the habit of hiking with your eyes closed.

My favorite interview it was so genuine Meldrum. RIP!

Hello I'm Jim from Illinois. I've taken an interest in big foot after listening to the sasquatch chronicles podcast. My goal is to learn more and pass the time at work. Thanks to the community