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BFFers, I'd like to address the "tracks" reported to Cliff Barackman and the BFRO near Elbe, WA. I afforded the individual involved a lengthy period of time (five months) to do the right thing, and fully disclose his involvement with the event. That hasn't happened yet. Moreover, the individual involved has continued to insist (privately) that he had absolutely no involvement with the event in question. His denial of involvement has driven people to question my initial statements and assertions. Initially, I granted the person involved a chance to admit his involvement privately to the people who were the most affected by his actions; the people who invested personal time and resources to his claims. The guilty party never did so, and still continues to insinuate that I had no real evidence against him. Here's the deal, folks: The first report regarding the track line was submitted in email form to Cliff Barackman, which was forwarded to the BFRO six hours later by the same source. The email address was "davepmorrison@...", but curiously the name signed to the email was "David Morris"; a small (but interesting) discrepancy. I immediately started "sleuthing" this individual in an effort to find out more about them via their online presence. Essentially, the vast majority of the people who submit reports, emails, and phone calls to the organization have an online presence. Some people have left huge amounts of information online, and some very little; but in the vast majority of instances it's very easy to verify who a person is, where they live, their means of employment, etc. I quickly found that the email address provided wasn't linked to any social media or website whatsoever; no Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, MySpace, etc., etc. Moreover, there were no "Dave Morrison", "Dave P Morrison", "David Morrison", "Dave Morris", "David Morris" matches which in any way "fit the bill" (geographically and otherwise) for this individual. Hitting that dead end was fairly concerning, because I can almost always find corroborating information about a person in a short amount of time. When I couldn't locate any information about this person, a huge red flag was raised. A few days later, I logged into FLATS (the internal BFRO reports database) and saw that the individual had also submitted a report via the BFRO Report Form. He included that his name was "Dave Morrison" (as opposed to "Morris" and included the same email address. Luckily for us, FLATS records the IP address of every report submission. That gave me a new clue to go on, and I immediately cross-referenced it with the IP address that the original email to Cliff was sent from. It was a match, which means that the same person submitted the initial email and the report three days later. Cliff also sent me another email that the reporting party had sent him, and it came from the same IP address as well. Unfortunately, you can't just Google the owner of an IP address. Various places online will display user's IP addresses (like certain forums, online email lists, etc.), but you'd really have to know where to look, and who you're looking for. Luckily, one of the places that I looked into displayed the IP addresses of the posters. It provided me with the poster's real name and username, and gave me a whole new lead to follow. A few minutes on Google revealed that this person was very involved in the online bigfoot community, and was an ardent skeptic. I recognized his username immediately, and knew that if he was the one who submitted the first reports that something was VERY wrong with the track line. I immediately called Cliff and Scott to fill them in. Derek called within minutes, and I brought him up to speed as well. I enlisted the help of a BFRO member that I work with often with locating information online and asked him to help me find more instances online of this same IP connected to the same individual (username/real name, etc.). Within a few hours, we had collected multiple examples of this person's IP address from various locations on the web. I also contacted veteran researcher Daniel Perez, who had corresponded with this individual before, and asked him if he would forward me the raw source data from the emails that the individual had sent him. He did, and the source data of the two emails matched the IP address. Daniel helped me tremendously by sending me those emails, and I am very thankful that he did. In other words, we now had irrefutable proof that the original email and FLATS report were sent in by a guy who is a borderline fanatical skeptic, and who is a very active member of the online bigfoot community. That, and the guy only lives 47 miles from Elbe. An exhaustive reading of his online posts revealed more information. This guy has been working on creating a life-sized Patty replica in his workshop in an effort to demonstrate that the PGF is fake. He describes (in detail) multiple pairs of fake feet that he has fabricated as part of this experiment. Here are a few quotes from him: June 2012 - "By the way, footprints are easy to fake, require little commitment in time and materials and effort. Which might account for their continued popularity, who knows. Footprints are an easy hoax." August 2012 - "Why spend hours looking for online videos when any one of us can test it simply and easily. It does mean going outside for a while, but it's summer and not too hostile out doors right now. Make a set of fake feet, 14-15 inches long, strap them on so that the toes stick out a ways in the front, and then walk around a bit, walk fast, see how well you adapt and lift your feet. To match the challenge, I'll do the same thing here in a few minutes. Again. Reason I say "again" is because I have already done this experiment. I'm not just sitting here at the keyboard speculating about how people walk barefoot, or with big shoes on or any of that. I like to have fun, play a bit, and enjoy experimentation to test out various ideas. Which is why I say that people lift their feet higher with big shoes on, because that's just what they (we) (I) do." And the most incriminating quote of all: March 2012 - "So how would one explain spayed toes in some faked bigfoot prints? Non-wooden stompers. I'm not going to say right now that there are no bigfoots, or that all prints are fake. However, I will say that making pliable, naturally behaving fake feet is not some rocket science... I have a pair of bigfoot feet I made from dock flotation foam, a sort of shiny plastic closed cell foam that is flexible, firm, easily carved with a knife and shaped with a scraper. Paint them with latex or acrylic paint, and they do everything a real foot would do in terms of print making." Once I had all of that information, it was undeniable that this individual was responsible for the Elbe tracks. After numerous attempts to get the perpetrator to cooperate, I sent him this email on October 3rd: "Axxxx, I've tried to avoid writing you this email, but given your last few posts on the BFF and JREF, I suppose it's time that I contact you about your claims. Here's the bottom line: I have irrefutable proof that you sent the first email to Cliff Barackman, the secondary email to the BFRO, and also submitted a report to the BFRO database. Myself and others compiled this proof and shared it with several researchers (12 to be exact, including Derek) on September 26th. I know that you're very worried about people finding out that you were involved (in any capacity), and you'd prefer not to have your name associated with this. Truthfully, it was never my intention to publicly "out" you. If I had wanted to, I could've done that immediately on the BFRO website and the BFF. It would've looked something like this: 'The investigation of the initial report led us to irrefutable proof that Axxxx Sxxxxxxx AKA "Tontar" was responsible for using a pseudonym and submitting the initial reports regarding the trackway. That evidence has cast doubt over the entire event, and as such, we can't endorse its legitimacy." There would be nothing ethically wrong with releasing that statement either, as it is completely true (unlike the majority of the things you've been posting since the "tracks" were discovered). Obviously, I don't know if you were responsible for faking the tracks themselves, or if you had help from other individuals, etc. What I do know is that you were behind those emails and the BFRO report. Anyone who researches your public claims would also be convinced that you fabricated those tracks. Whether you faked those tracks, or merely reported them for someone else, people will see those statements and assume with certainty that you did it, and that you've been experimenting with fake tracks since March of this year. Many people will also interpret the act as malicious. Maybe you were conducting a legitimate experiment with stompers for your PG recreation. Perhaps you took those things out on a test drive and realized that they looked pretty good. Whatever the reason, things certainly changed when you created an email address and a pseudonym and sent reports and emails to Cliff and the BFRO. That's the part that people will undoubtedly get the most upset with; your desire to deceive others. You lied, plain and simple. You are continuing to lie. You are trying to insinuate that others are responsible, when you know exactly who is truly responsible. Derek Randles is a friend of mine, and I refrained from handing over information to others about your involvement because Derek thought that you would cooperate with him based on good faith. He told me that the two of you had communicated, and had intended to meet. Meanwhile, I continue to see the things that you post in public venues about the researchers' "inabilities" to identify who "did the deed". We've known who "did the deed" for over a week. Every day that we have kept your name confidential should be viewed as a gift. Every day that we haven't done our due diligence and released that information has been an opportunity for you to be honest with the people who deserve to know the truth about this. Derek thought you would. For a moment, I thought you would, too. Instead, you're continuing to lie about the incident, and constantly trying to shift the focus (and the blame) back on to the "researchers"; the very people whom you had hoped to fool. I gave you the chance to admit it on the BFF when I insinuated that you knew exactly where those tracks were before anyone else found them. Instead, you tried to divert attention away from you by concocting a sarcastic response, and then followed it up with a response implying that it was probably a bigfoot proponent who did it! I am tired of giving you opportunities to do the right thing. I am pretty sure the other researchers and investigators are, too. Matt Pruitt" After sending that email, I had a lengthy phone conversation with Tontar about "doing the right thing" and working directly with the people that were affected. It was a nice conversation, and one that left me feeling that Tontar would do the responsible thing and be honest. That still hasn't happened, and since then, many people have questioned my investigative integrity for pointing a finger at Tontar. I have many, many screenshots of all of this information. I can release all of that information if need be. I am hoping (once again) that Tontar will fully disclose the extent of his involvement with this event. His posts about Bill Munns' recent violation of trust related to a different event were what prompted me to finally post this. Tontar's words were the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It's pretty clear that he never intended to disclose the truth to anyone. Disclosing the truth was always my intention. I only delayed it because I truly felt that I was doing the right thing by allowing him to divulge his side of the story in a way that allowed him some sort of control over the way his story was presented. He sent the emails and the initial report. Do the math, folks. Tontar is responsible for the fabricated tracks at Elbe.

Hi folks sorry for your concern. As the big male BF told me once in a dream, rumors of my extinction are very much exaggerated. Or maybe that was Mark Twain. I lost access (password) to the yahoo account that I use for the forum and due to that and a fussy password here have been unable to sign in. Just now figuring out how to get back in although logging in here was confusing and it took me several trys to get in. I did have a bad case of COVID in 2020 that took me out of field work. Have not fully recovered yet. In the mean time I have had a lot of time to think about field work in general. My encounter experience progressed from playful interaction at first and got more and more ounfriendly as time went on. I was dealing with a family group in a fairly small area who were apparently not nomadic in that they were there year round. Then clear cut logging started at the North end of their area and worked south wiping out most lanes of travel cover for them. I was present in the daytime three or more times a week. I had to have been a major problem for their food gathering and hunting. As you may remeber I cornered one against a ridgeline and advanced on it as fast as I could move through difficult down wood, trying to get it to break cover. That got me growled at and a tree broken off behind me. The final contact resulted in an infrasound attack from a very close distance. I cannot understand how I did not see the administrator of that attack because it was less than 10 feet away as evidenced by a large depression in the veggetation. It was painful, frightening, and kept me out of the woods for a couple of months. As I recovered from Covid I had a lot of time to think. The combination of my frequent presence and the clear cutting process had to put a lot of stress on that family group. I did not see or understand that I was a big part of their problem. They may have even thought I was part of the clear cut crew. I stopped seeing any footprints after a few months and stopped having any contact. Anyway I feel a lot of guilt for my part in disrupting their life and being part of the forces that made them move. The final concern I have about continuing with field work in some form is that along with the infrasound event, I had several instances where I heard something moving close by and should have seen it because of lack of cover, but did not see a thing. In one case something ran past behind me and hit my pack. I was in the middle of a logging road with no cover with ten yards or so. I cannot help but shake the feeling that they are capable of masking or going invisible somehow. Are we dealing with some predator type creature? tha Anyway that is were I am with regard to field work. I do not plan on staying out of the woods but my primary purpose for being there will be for some other reason. Maybe that is the best route to take anyway?

I know that this has been discussed ad nauseam here, but I wanted to give my thoughts on the subject... For quite some time now I've been considering if I truly have a place here and whether I should end my participation on the BFF. My two main sticking points are the fanatical "Bigfoot exists", "No they don't", "Yuh-huh!", "Nuh-uh!" echo chamber and the insistence by both sides that the issue must be proven one way or another. There has been much debate recently about the participation of the skeptic/scofftic/denialist (referred to hereafter as SSD's) on the forum. Often quoted is this paragraph from the intro to the forum's Rules & Guidelines: None of this is given as a binding rule, but the principle that if one comes here with "preconceived and immovable notions about bigfoot" then there can be no expectation of "thought-provoking debate" is quite clear. The two viewpoints are mutually exclusive. Without conceding the possibility, no matter how small, that bigfoot might, might exist, then any "discussion" will inevitability devolve into a grade school ***-for-tat that stifles discussion and frustrates a significant portion of the membership who simply want to talk about bigfoot.What is also vital to the debate is the idea that the above principle applies not only to the SSD, but to the True Believer (TB), those who are 100% certain of bigfoot's existence without a sighting of their own. If the TB's cannot bring themselves to admit that someone might have a legitimate reason for not believing that bigfoot exists, we are at loggerheads again. That leaves us with the Knowers, those who claim clear, unambiguous, unmistakable sightings of an unknown large hairy biped. There is no respectable way to deny these claims, and not being present at the time of their encounter, I am happy to accept their claim barring other facts which come to light to contradict it. For the sake of argument, the Knowers exist as an entity unto themselves, and have no real bearing on the endless SSD/TB vicious circle. It seems to me that the FMT, the other administrators, and the Steering Committee here need to decide if we can allow those on both sides of the debate (who staunchly refuse to give any quarter to the other side) to continue their blind-arguing-the-blind antics. The fact we must all face (Knowers excluded. They have their personal proof) is that there is no proof either way. I am a proponent who tries to remain skeptical in the truest sense, and respect those who have thoughtfully reached a different conclusion. What I can't abide is the disrespectful and dismissive dogmatism of both the SSD and the TB, as well as their ongoing feud which serves only to derail many otherwise reasonable discussions, and poison the well here on the BFF. I understand that more rules here would further burden the good folks who volunteer their time as moderators, but unfortunately see no other alternative. Please understand that I am not advocating a stifling of debate. The behavior I am describing, and arguing for the banning of such, is not debate or discussion in any reasonable sense, but is instead merely a peeing contest between two immovable and closed-minded factions who refuse to give one inch to the other side. I am interested in any respectful discussion or views on the subject.

During the past few decades of investigating reports and conducting research concerning the presence of Bigfoot in the Southern and Southeastern states, I routinely receive information and see evidence that clearly indicates that the primates relish fruits, berries and vegetables from any source. A recent contact with an older gentleman who lives in Southern Missouri who is aware that a group of Bigfoot have foraged on his and a neighbor’s property for years, told me about Bigfoot taking his entire grape crop. The man was not as upset about the overnight theft of his crop of fruit as he was about the Bigfoot’s antics with his two-piece, concrete bird bath. During the hot weather the man filled the birdbath with cold water each afternoon. Every few mornings he would discover the concrete bowl had been removed from its pedestal and brought and set down on the ground near the home’s back door. The first time that occurred he was not sure that someone was not “playing a prank” on him. The man stated the act was not funny to him because he had to carry the heavy bowl and re-install on the pedestal. He complained the he was, “Too danged old to be lifting and carrying the thing and set it back in place every few days.” He had known a group of Bigfoot came onto to his property every few night because he had heard them “hollering, whooping and beating on trees after dark”. He had no problem with them doing that, and had left apples out for them in the back yard in the area of the bird bath. When he continued to find the birdbath bowl on the ground by the back door for a “refill” he became frustrated by the animals’ antics. He didn’t discuss the situation with anyone until his whole crop of grapes – he said a few bushel – disappeared overnight and he found wide, 18” long bare foot prints in the vineyard. At that time he decided to talk to a neighbor who lived about one-quarter mile away. He approached the man by asking him if he had heard any strange animals sound at night. The man told him he had not only heard them many times at night but at times they were close enough to his home that he had determined there were at least five in the group. He told the man that the animals were those called MO-Mo in that state and Bigfoot in other place. During their discussion the neighbor also told him that he had a peach tree that had such an abundance of fruit this season he cut small forked trees from his property to prop up the heavy loads of fruit on the peach tree limbs to keep the limbs from breaking. The neighbor stated that when the fruit ripened he discover that all of the peaches were picked or shaken loose from the tree and carried off during one night. There was no evidence that a human or wild animal had climbed the tree. Both men realized that typical wild animals would eat their fill at the site, and evidence of that would have been obvious on the ground under the tree. There have been numerous reports of Bigfoot sightings from that county in Missouri that have been submitted to well known Bigfoot research groups. The writer has conducted field work in that area, and recorded reports from several respected area residents. This man’s report is typical of many others that I have investigated in various states– except for the birdbath aspect - that is a new wrinkle for me. The other slight differences in the other reports were that the cultivated fruits stolen were usually apples, pears, plums and, in one instance, figs. The most well known case of a Bigfoot foraging on cultivated fruit occurred in a large peach orchard in Chilton near Clanton, Alabama in the 1960s. The orchard’s owner called the county sheriff’s office and reported the routine theft of peaches on the back side of the orchard near the wood line.. An investigator from that office went to the scene. He saw and photographed very large, human-like tracks in the sandy soil. He followed the tracks into the woods and was convinced it was not a human that stole the peaches and left the tracks. The investigator did not mince words. He told the local newspaper reporters what he saw and gave them his opinions. The story was widely covered by TV stations and other newspapers. There have been several cases that I’ve investigated that involve the theft of garden produce by one or more Bigfoot. During the summer months reports of Bigfoot swiping tomatoes, corn in the roasting ear stage, water melons and cantaloupes from gardens in rural areas of the S & SE are fairly common. During the winter they often take turnips and winter onions. In a majority of such cases, the evidence that it was Bigfoot that raided the gardens was their footprints left in the tilled ground. The primary reason for this post is to alert younger Bigfoot “hunters” that their quarry routinely forages on wild fruits and berries, and very often leaves distinctive evidence of the act. Many years ago I first heard one of the animals vocalize about eleven PM on a very cold night in December. For five years I devoted my spare time to try to determine for sure what made that sound. Although I had seen unusual sign and smelled odd and rank odors that I now know were Bigfoot related, it was not until I saw their huge tracks in the thick grass around the perimeter of an “island” of fruit laden blackberry vines that disclosed their identity. In closely examining that blackberry thicket it was obvious the thicket of vines were undisturbed and that for a distance of over three feet inside the perimeter of the thicket nearly all of the ripe berries had been picked. The tracks in the grass closely adjoining the perimeter showed the Bigfoot had taken steps of about four feet, stopped, brought both feet together and reached over the six to seven feet high vines to gather the ripest berries. His tracks showed that the animal approached the exposed blackberry patch from a nearby creek bottom, and returned to the creek bottom when he had eaten the berries within his reach around the edge of the patch. As a point of fact, had it been a black bear that found the berry thicket first, the thicket of vines would have looked as if an ATV had been driven through the entire patch. I have found many good blackberry patches and kept track of the berries’ growth with the intention of harvesting them to make jelly when they were ripe. The black bears beat me to them most of the time. One large patch I was watching was growing in an old clear-cut area near the top of a mountain. The road up the mountain was rough, rutted and in places covered with silt washed off the mountainside. When I knew the berries would be ripe I made rough drive up the mountain. Just before I reached the berry thicket I passed over a layer of red clay. I knew I was wasting my time. I stopped to look at the tracks of a sow bear and her two cubs that were headed toward the patch. I drove to the berry patch as that was the nearest place to turn around. The pristine berry patch looked as if a tornado had flattened it. Many times I have seen medium to large size black cherry trees with the limbs broken off when the fruit was ripe. I always stop to see for sure if it had been a bear, as is usually the case, did the damage. If so, the limbs will have been pulled across the ground to form somewhat of a circle, with the center of the circle showing a large impression of the bear’s butt. A bear will sit on the ground and gorge itself on the fruit. There always seems to be enough berries left for the coyotes. The cherries are a laxative of sorts because the animal trails, roads or open woods near the site are speckled with runny coyote and bear scat. A bear will always leave the marks of its claws on any tree it climbs; but a Bigfoot seldom leaves toe or fingernail marks when they do that. When a Bigfoot climbs a large wild fruit tree they will seat themselves and bend the fruit bearing limbs close enough to strip the fruit from the limbs and branches with their mouth. The evidence on the ground will be a sprinkling of mashed cherries, fruit stems and lacerated leaves. When smaller cherry trees are found with fruit, and they want it, they will break the tree several feet from the ground. Usually the tree top is drug to a more concealed spot if it was growing in an open area. Many animals forage on the several varieties of wild grapes that grow in this part of the country. Muscadine grapes will mature and bear fruit when the small vines grow along the ground without support. The fruit from such vines is easy pickings for all animals, including humans. (The fruit makes excellent jelly and wine.) Large muscadine vines that grow up alongside or wrapped around the sides of large trees may reach a height of a hundred feet or more, with multiple branches from the ground upwards. Coyote, fox, raccoon, opossum, black bear, and feral hogs forage heavily on the fruit. Bigfoot does as well, although because of the relatively small population of these animals and the vast and widespread growth of the vines it is rare to find compelling evidence of those animals foraging on muscadine fruit. It is not unusual to find a muscadine vine when the fruit is ripening and see that the vine has been manipulated to cause a lot of both the ripe and green fruit to fall to the ground. Several times I have noticed this situation and spent time determining the cause, Most of the time I could plainly see teeth marks on the lower parts of the vines. Tracks and scat in the area confirmed that a coyote had actually jumped off the ground to grasp the vines with its teeth, and no doubt shook its body to cause fruit to fall. The mature fruit was obviously eaten, but the green, hard fruit was left on the ground. Their teeth marks showed they had grasped the vine, shook it and simply turned loose of it; in other words the teeth did not slip down the vine. In other such cases it was obvious that bear had pulled and shook the vines with both their teeth and paws. In one case a bear had clawed, chewed and pulled on a huge vine for some time without dislodging much fruit because the vine was tightly wrapped around a huge pine tree. Only once have I seen a wild grape vine from which appeared a Bigfoot had removed the fruit, and the fruit was summer grapes. The vine was growing up a small maple tree (about six or eight inches in diameter) near the top of steep ridge which was capped by a sheer sandstone cliff. Below the face of the cliff was a small natural clearing covered by rocks and boulders with some grass and small brush. The tree had been near the center of the small clearing, and was covered by the vines of a summer grape. When I found it in September a few years ago, it had been broken off about five feet from the ground. The top part, with the vine and its roots attached, had been taken about twenty yards and placed against the base of the cliff. At that location there was a flat, protruding ledge that was about five or six feet above the cliff base. It was obvious the tree and vine had been moved fairly recently as there were still some dried leaves attached to both the tree and vine. There were a few dried grapes still attached to the vine, and some on the ground rocks below the ledge. Below the ledge was also a localized mixture of grape stems, leaves small broken limbs from both the maple tree and the summer grape vine. Along the base and sides of that cliff, which extends nearly one half mile, there are numerous ledges that are similar to the one described. All of those ledges are covered by the duff from northern red oak and pine trees that grow in broken gaps along the top of the cliff. It was noted that most of the accumulated duff on the ledge near which the tree top was placed was nearly gone, and what was left had been disturbed. The ironic thing to me was in this very area, nearly fifty years ago, I walked the length of the top of that cliff for the first time, at times having to walk on tree limbs to get across the gaps. It was only a few hundred yards from this natural clearing that I climbed down to the base of the cliff and on my way to the base of the ridge. When I reached the base of the cliff I immediately smelled the most disgusting and obnoxious odor I had ever encountered in the woods at that time. I thought the smell might have originated from a coyote den, but when I began looking around for one, the odor became fainter and fainter until it was gone. Just memories and observation I wanted to share while I still can. Kindest regards to all.

Boys and Girls, here's first dibs on the soon to be released 'lite' version of the Nest Area analysis that i finished for 2021. This report prior to today, has only been viewed internally by Olympic Project members and a very selective few others. As mentioned, it's the 'lite' version that i just wanted to release due to time restrictions and going forward, i need to analyze both weather conditions and moon phase correlations among other things, when time is a little easier to come by for me. Anyway, it's important to me that BFF members get a first look at it and i hope this thread can ignite productive conversation among us. It's important to note that all Bird and Mammal recordings analyzed were clarified by multiple people using the MaCaulay Library of Sound. As and when i make edits due to people pointing out grammatical errors etc, i'll update the report and post the most recent edit here as we go along. The recording project is continuing and recording as i write and i can tell you that 2022 and the first Winter that has been recorded so far, has been extremely productive and Winter was the season that was most interesting to us due to the timing of both the original Nests found (February) and the 2020 new 'under construction' Nest find (February). If anybody has any questions at all on anything, please add to the thread and i'll try my best to answer them, checking in to the thread on a minimum of every Monday and Tuesday at least. I'd be really interested on peoples thoughts and/or experiences of the possible Coyote Warning/Locator call correlations that were found. Sharing is caring, enjoy ! Edit : If anyone wants this on PDF, just message me your email address and i'll send it across soonest.

Most of my field trips tend to be work related, but at least it takes me to some pretty cool and occasionally remote locations in northern BC. This is between Bob Quinn and Bell 2, BC, roughly 100 miles due east of Wrangell, AK. So many bears here, typically seeing 7-10 black bears a day and a handful of grizzlies over the shift. Closest reported sighting to here is this - from 2 years ago and about 100 miles south: https://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=65630 Very few people in this country and most places on the map aren't even towns, just gas stations/camps or lodges.

He was my mentor. He was one of my best friends. I will miss him. Thomas Steenburg

I was in the woods when I received a text telling me about Ray's hospitalization several days ago. I returned home last night, and today was the first opportunity I had to visit Ray. I just walked in the door from doing so. Ray is in good spirits, and for a dying man, he looks great. He is ready for the impending transition. We spent our hour and a half together talking about bigfoot, astronomy, interesting people, his rich and unique life, and other stuff. He told me about his books, some of which have yet to be published. He shared insights and stories. It was great. Back in 1997, I was road tripping with my soon-to-be (and now ex-) wife. I subscribed to the WBS newsletter, the Track Record, at the time, so I took a chance and called Ray Crowe when we were in Portland, OR. I was hoping to see the bookstore and some of his sasquatch artifacts kept in his bookstore's basement where the WBS met every month. Ray told me on the phone that all that stuff was over at Larry Lund's home because of a flood or something or other in the bookstore. Ray gave me Larry's number, which I called, and my ex and I spent four or five hours with Larry that night. The evening blew my mind. The thought that there were actually people into this stuff I guess hadn't really occurred to me at that point. I credit (or perhaps "blame" would be a better word) that night with accelerating me to wherever I find myself today. It started with that phone call. It started with Ray. Today, I thanked Ray for this. I'd be lying if I said I did this with dry eyes. I feel like we in the PNW all owe Ray a lot. He started the monthly meetings here in Portland, of which echoes can now be seen in HopsSquatch. He carried on the tradition of newsletters pioneered by the Bay Area Group and the Bigfoot Co-op (am I showing my age now?). He suggested to us that we always wear our "skepticals" while reading his newsletter, as it was raw data, no filters added, which is good advice for all bigfooters. He's not dead yet, but he is on his way to check out. He is/was not only a catalyst for my life path, I am happy to call him a friend. Think positive thoughts for friend of the 'squatch, Ray Crowe.

I'm happy to announce that we may be seeing some bold new PGF research, because Doug Hajicek (of MonsterQuest fame) is launching a new funding campaign for "Legend Meets Science 2" as seen here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hajicek/legend-meets-science-ii-film-sequel-a-bigfoot-documentary?ref=3icq5m&token=6ab15f4a Doug did an incredible job on LMS 1, providing researchers with some of the best frame scans and video renders of the PGF for many years, and he and I have been in talks for some time now about taking PGF research to the next level in this new LMS 2 project. So please support it, or share the info with friends, and if it is successful, we can look forward to some bold and exciting new research. Mods: I hope this notice is appropriately placed. If not, move at your discretion. Thank you.

I for sure would include Florida. I have posted this before, but I had three experiences while I lived in Florida. We lived for a couple of years in Sarasota, maybe ten miles or so from Myakka River State Park, where the "Myakka Skunk Ape" photos were allegedly taken. Here's a copy: _____ Though I live in Oregon, all three of my "experiences" happened in Florida, less than ten miles from Myakka River State Park about fifteen years ago. I was living at a country club / older folks' community called Heritage Oaks while I was in Florida going to school for a couple of years. Whenever I could, I would get out into nature by hiking up at Myakka River State Park and surrounding areas. Beautiful place, but it can be dangerous. There’s a lot of wildlife and it seems everything out there is looking to hurt or kill you. Lots of gators, poisonous snakes, spiders, boars, panthers, and my wife and I even saw two jaguarundis once at Myakka River State Park. My experiences though, happened at the golf course, strangely enough. The first experience we had, I was with my wife and we were out sitting on our screened in porch on the second floor enjoying a cigar and a cold fermented malt beverage. It was very late at night, I would say maybe 2AM, and we had the lights out so I wouldn’t get busted for smoking a cigar. Just talking and relaxing. This second-floor porch overlooked maybe 20 feet of grass, then a retaining pond (lake), and the golf course itself. We could see none of it though, it was a very dark night. Well this night was very quiet. Suddenly, we heard bipedal footsteps sloshing through the water. Big. Deliberate. Not fast, but not slow. It was covering a lot of ground with those steps. Now it was too dark to see, but I knew at the time there are only two things in the water at night in Florida. Gators, and gator food. If you are not one, you are the other. But even though you could hear the sloshing of the steps, you could almost feel the ground thumping as whatever it was moved. It wouldn’t make sense that a person would be walking through the water at night after midnight with no flashlight (or even with one for that matter). But this was no gator. Whatever it was was walking on two legs. As it passed the “lanai”, we were both afraid to even look to see what it was. Not that we could have anyway. But we didn’t even want to get close to the screen. It passed right by us. I would say no more than 30 feet away, max. It never broke stride. We were both too afraid to even speak. And when we did, we whispered and didn’t pronounce our “s’s” because we didn’t want to be heard by whatever it was. We sat there a long while after this thing was gone, trying to figure out what it was. I joked “skunk ape” with her, but the truth was that I was pretty certain that’s what we heard. I have seen deer out there and tons of birds. But this was no deer. No wild pig. Not a bear. Not a panther. It was bigger than those for certain. I still don’t KNOW what it was But if I had to put money down on something, I would have to go with a skunk ape because nothing else fits. That was the first experience. The second and third ones are tied together. Let me set the stage a little. I had an old dog. He was awesome. Always quiet and mild mannered. Unless there was danger. Then he became 120 pounds of growling snarling canine badassery. Mix of black lab, German shepherd, chow, akita, and coyote. I had to walk him when I got home from school. Usually that was after midnight or so. Outside the gate of the community though, there was swamp land, and general native Florida wilderness. When I say “gate”, I mean there was a drop-down arm to block vehicles, but people could just walk around it. Boy, I miss the sounds of the gators and frogs at night! I would take Tucker out there to do his business next to the road. I always carried my pistol because it was scary out there with just a flashlight. This particular night, I was walking Tucker towards the gate to get out to the road to his happy pooping grounds, when he started walking slower. His head was lowered, and he was growling softly. Now we were still in the golf course community, mind you. But right next to a small pond that was completely blocked off with trees. You couldn’t even see this pond. Not even the landscapers went in there. I know, because I was curious and went in there one day. Very thick native Florida bush. Then swampy pond. Almost perfectly circular. Maybe fifty feet across is all. It’s own little nature preserve in miniature. It was right next to a man-made retaining pond that had gators and fish and frogs and snakes and the like in it. As we were passing this pond which you cannot see, Tucker’s hackles went up and he started growling loud, and baring his teeth. His eyes were fixed on the small trees next to us. These trees were maybe 20 to 25 feet tall. Almost like tall bushes, really. Just as I was really realizing that something was in there, that something growled from the cover of those trees. Loud as hell. I could feel it in my chest, even. I could feel my hair stand up. That had never happened to me before, and it was a really strange sensation. That growl was so low in pitch and loud! It was not a gator, as I have heard those sounds before many times. Then the trees began shaking VIOLENTLY. I thought whatever it was was either going to rip them down or come charging out, so I had my 1911 drawn. We backed away from those trees without turning around. I did not want to turn my back to them. My heart was pounding. I was scared crapless. We finally came home from a different route (we actually walked all the way around the community because I didn’t want to pass those bushes again. My wife asked where I had been and I explained everything. She thought it was funny. Well I was not amused. A few weeks went by, and my mother in law came to visit from Texas. We had an extra room, so it was no big deal. She always loved to go outside and see the nature there. She loved to walk the dog, too. I told her to stay away from the “growly bushes” as they had become to be known as. She teased me and I tried to explain I was NOT kidding and I was deadly serious. It piqued her curiousity. Well late one night maybe here or four weeks after the first “growly-bush” experience, we had been tipping a few drinks out on the lanai. It was late, and the dog needed to go out one last time. She volunteered, and asked me to go with her because she wanted to see the “growly-bushes”. I decided to show her where it happened. So foolishly, we headed down there. Tucker again started growling slow and low, with his head down as we approached the bushes. My mother in law started getting freaked out. Then as we got near them, the thing growled loud at us and shook the trees again, exactly as it had done before. My mother in law was terrified, and so was I. When we got back up to the safety of the condo, she swore that she would never doubt me again. Neither of us know for certain what growled at us. But whatever it was, had to be huge to shake the trees like that. I tried shaking them in the day time some time later, and could get them to move, but nothing like what we experienced. The good thing is that I had a witness this time. And she was able to relay what happened to my wife. Now my wife knows I was not joking about it. There are strange things out there. And now that I am in Oregon and my kids are grown, I want to find out. That’s why I go out to the woods when I can and search for these beings. I know they are out there. And I hope to be able to find enough proof to satisfy my own curiosity, which I think will never be satisfied. _____

Two weeks ago, I spent a week in the High Uinta Mountains of Utah, camping and hiking with some friends. It is a beautiful area with easy access to high alpine lakes from the Mirror Lake Scenic Byway (Hwy. 150). While the trip was not a BF focused trip, I was fully aware of several BF reports around several of the lakes we visited. I also was aware of the claim by some Utah BF researchers, that the Weber River drainage was a hot-spot. Thus, I decided to take one my hikes overlooking the Weber River drainage and to follow a similar path as one of the BFRO reports (see link below). http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=188 In this report, two men and their 5 boys, claimed to have hiked to the top of the ridge between Pass Lake and Cuberant Basin at the head of Weber River drainage. When they reached the top of the ridge they looked down upon a small alpine lake about one half mile below and saw the BF like creature standing on its edge. While I don't know exactly where they were, if they were at the ridge above Cuberant Lake, that was about 11,000 ft and Cuberant Lake was down at 10,400 ft. I did not climb the ridge. Instead I followed the trail from Pass Lake to the largest of the Cuberant Lakes in order to see the Weber River drainage to my west and check out one pond and 2 of the Cuberant Lakes. Below is a map extract showing were Pass Lake TH, Cuberant Lake, Fish Lake and Notch Mountain are located. That morning it was 48 F at 9:30 AM and had rained all morning. Thus the dark clouds on the photos. It did not rain anymore until after 2:30 PM. The first photo is of Notch Mountain and the 2nd photo is an unnamed mountain. Both of these were to the west of our position and you can see the Weber River drainage down below. The 3rd photo shows the hike down from the pass into the pond on the way to the Cuberant Lakes. Fourth photo is the first Cuberant Lake and the 5th photo is the largest of the Cuberant Lakes. Overall the whole area is beautiful and I will probably return (with a backpack and to go deeper).

I'm 2 weeks late getting this posted but ive been swimming in busy work and follow ups. Below is the report as it was sent in to us at the West Virginia High Strangeness Collective. The gentlemen who has this encounter is a friend of mine from one of my other hobbies, field herpetology, and up until this point had joked on occasion about bigfoot. His words are in "--" and the investigation notes follow. I'll attach pictures of the findings velow as well, this was by far one of the most exciting days of my life. "I share this event completely aware of the backlash, and ridicule I will receive. The day of April 12, 2020 had weather conditions shaping up to be perfect for my favorite hobby, amateur herpetology. So like every spring night when the rain is falling heavy I decided it would be a great night to cruise the roads and document the species of reptiles and amphibians crawling on the floor of a local state forest, and like normal an unnamed passenger (at this time) opted to cruise the backroads with me on the search. We arrived at the state forest a little after 8pm, the sun not yet fallen, and the skies not quite dark enough for the animals I was searching for to be emerging from their hiding places yet. So, we took a drive through the park to kill time, look for other interesting animals and wait for the sun to fully set. Nothing unusual was happening. The frogs were starting to call as the sun fell behind the mountain and night began to fall. The birds chirping fell quiet with the sunset. The deer were retreating from the wet valley I was intending to search that night. Absolutely nothing unusual for the area I frequent on a regular basis. In an average week I visit this same location 5-6 times to document any new egg masses, the species I observe, or anything else I may find interesting at the given time. I have observed and heard coyotes and owls in this valley on several occasions, and have become familiar with their behavior and noises as a result. This average night was about to take a terrifying turn I never imagined. In this particular forest I have a handful of areas that host great habitats for documenting a wide variety of species. I made my way to the first vernal pool area I wanted to check in the flooded valley wetland that night. I exited my vehicle, the time now approaching 9pm, and I observed a toad on the gravel parking area. I decided to document the first species of the night. I stopped, got my phone out of my pocket and snapped the first picture of the adventure. That would end up being the only explainable thing I encountered in that valley that night… as I took two to three more steps, just passed the giant rocks that prevent vehicles from driving into the open area of the woods, towards the first vernal pool I was intending to shine with my flashlight, I heard a groan that I have never heard in these woods before. This groan was deep, almost sounding human or at least primate in nature, clearly agitated, and extremely too close to where I was currently standing. I had clearly interrupted something, and it was furious about it. Something was in this valley with me, and I had no identification for the sounds it was expressing towards my presence. The chills that shot down my spin and covered my body was like nothing I have experienced in my life. I looked back to see the unnamed person with me void of color with eyes as large as I have ever seen on anyone. My first reaction was get back in the vehicle and try to make sense of what we clearly both just witnessed. What was a short distance back to the vehicle felt like an eternity carrying the fear that had consumed my body at this point. Merely thinking about that groan is enough to spark those same chills through my body. As we sat in the vehicle for what in reality was likely only a few seconds, but felt like minutes, asking each other what that noise was, a second, now closer, groan rang through that valley and the fear struck every molecule of my body again. This thing, whatever it was, was literally on top of us. My only mission at this point was to get the hell out of that valley, and my unnamed passenger expressed the same mission aloud. People often ask why there was no video, or picture, or recording of some kind in the age of everyone having a phone in their pocket, but after experiencing that sound, in near complete darkness minus my own lights, I can definitely understand why people just bolt. I lost all the preconceived ideas we all have that we would be the one with the guts to stick around to find out what just made that sound. I drove over an hour to search a completely different forest and wetland area for species that night because I no longer wanted to be in that area and sleep was sure to elude me for days after this unexplainable experience. After returning home that night and the following day I attempted to make sense of the sounds we witnessed. I messaged friends avid in the outdoors to jokingly tell them I heard a murder or a bigfoot last night, hoping for identification suggestions from anyone close to me that could give me an answer more reasonable than either of those ideas. Nothing. I researched large cats that are not supposed to be here, and those that are, nothing resembling that groan in felines I listened to. I researched coyote and wolf chatter, again nothing in the Canine world. I researched owls, raptors, bears, and once more nothing matched that bone chilling sound. I honestly hoped and waited for the news to report a body, seriously, I was just seeking answers at this point. I was admittedly becoming desperate for answers. Someone has heard this noise in these woods before. I couldn’t possibly be the only one. So I desperately contacted a friend of mine (he will be making his own posts about this event) highly interested and invested in the fields of cryptozoology, and the paranormal. Admittedly I made this contact in hopes to get an answer something along the lines of “that’s not a sound I’m aware of” much to my surprise he wanted to know more. Where did this happen? When did this happen? Can you tell me what you recall? I gave him the details of what I recalled, the above event, with the location in more detail, and the investigation was on. The details of his investigation are heavily documented in photograph and video. What he found matches almost too unbelievably perfect to the experience I described to him. I don’t want to go into detail of his side of documenting this event since he will do that better than I can. However, the evidence I received after he visited the site of my experience literally made my heart drop, I could feel the color once again leave my face. I’m still not sure what we heard in that valley that night, but what he uncovered leaves me completely unsettled about where the evidence appears to point. The only thing I’m sure of is whatever it was didn’t want to share that valley with us and it still gives me chills when I think about it. You can be the judge of the evidence for yourself. I won’t tell you what to believe, because I’m still unsure what to make of this myself." - Jon Tinney Field notes : Weather conditions have been in perfect to preserve physical evidence between now and the the sighting. Once I arrived on site, I located the vernal pool and immediatly noticed 2 footprints that were very deep in the substrate on the edge of the pool. As I navigated the game trail that lead around the pool I noticed a sapling broken at chest height, and twisted with a second break 18 inches above the first. Moving along the game trail I located a smaller game trail that made its way toward the area where i saw the initial prints. On this trail i found another foot print in the mixed soil and leaf litter. I marked that print with a glove and continued to the original set of prints that i noticed off the bat. As I nelt by the first two prints I heard a series of tree knocks from above me higher up the mountian. The series was in this pattern ***----** i find this inconsequential yet noteworthy. The first two prints were full of water, I documentdd them with pictures and video and moved toward the secondary track. While I was moving debris from the print to verify that it was castable I noticed an accompanying print that was the other foot completing a left and right set. I prepared the area as per Dr. Jeff Meldrum instructions in his Sasquatch field guide and poured the plaster casts using creek water and plaster of Paris. While i waited for these to dry i discovered additional 2 prints but didnt have enough plaster to cast these, they were also very shallow and would not have yeilded much of a cast sample. I documented them in photographs. There is about 7 miniutes of video footage that accompanies the investigation. The casts are now cleaned and pictures will be included, midtarsle breaks are present in both casts, the heels and midtarsle break are the most impressive features to these casts as the ground is very hard and the toes were not clear but were disernable . I tried to leave impressions by jumping up and down but was unable to make impressions that were as deep as the footprints. No hair samples to be found. When I showed the results to the witness they could not believe that the evidence corroborated their encounter. The subject was actually much closer to him durring the encounter after I showed him pictures of the area and where I was finding the trace evidence. The footprints were pointed in such a way by a tree that it would have been watching him and was actually within 50-75ft most of the encounter. The recovered casts measured at 14 1/2 inches long. A follow up site walk through was preformed with Dr. Russ Jones, he reviewed the casts as well. The exact location of the site will not be exposed as it is an active investigation area. I'll post more pictures tomorrow as I've reached a post/response limit for today 😆

I have three {3} of Rene Dahindan's Sasquatch brochures left. After these are gone, they are only in personal collections. And, these brochures, which are "Mad Magazine" humorous, rarely show for auction. I traded some things to Larry Lund, the owner of of Rene's last box, for the ones I have, maybe 10 years ago. So, if you donate $100 to the forum's fund raising, you will get a copy. Please note, I have attached these brochures to a copy of my book "The Oregon Bigfoot Highway" on an auction house for about $25 plus shipping. So, I guess I'll include a copy of the book But again, when this last one is gone, it is gone. Next, I will cancel the auction. And, if sold, I will keep the last two copies for my purposes. Joe here Oh, forgot: I'll add a signed copy of Dr. R. Jones book, Tracking the Stoneman, West Virginia's BF. Let's meet our goal. This is a great site, let's keep it that way. { In memory of Bobbie Short and her site, "Bigfoot Encounters."} Long live Dear Bobbie in the here after.

Technically, a scientist is anyone who applies the scientific method when investigating a hypothesis. There were scientists long before there were scientific organizations, degrees, and scientific awards. Is an amateur astronomer who discovers an asteroid barreling toward Earth any less an astronomer than someone with a PhD in the science? The amateur is probably using a better telescope than Galileo had. On the other hand, is Bill Nye, the "Science Guy", really a climate scientist? After all, he only has a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. The real question is: "What does society currently accept as reasonable qualifications for a "Scientist"? And the answer may vary from field to field, subject to subject, and political viewpoint to political viewpoint. Unfortunately; advanced degrees, experience, and resources are accompanied by a healthy portion of hubris.

Yowie as above stated several have been shot and a lot have been "drawn down" on and the people decided not to shoot. A hunter here in my state was in that position. He was a State trooper out hunting and never even pointed the gun at the Sasquatch and stated that it was to human looking. You have already figured out the gun ownership is a touchy subject. If you get your info from mainstream media in the US then there probably is nothing to talk about because you have fallen for the propaganda. They keep trying to ban what they call "assault" weapons. The semiautomatic "assault weapon" (fully auto is illegal without the right permit and very few are given) is classed as a rifle in the FBI tracking of shootings. Rifles are second up from the bottom (above shotguns) for number of people killed. On average there are almost 2 times the people killed with knives, 2 times the number of people killed with blunt objects (hammer, ballbat), almost 3 times the number of people killed each year using no weapon other than hands, feet, pushing. now the most people in at almost 30 times the number killed with rifles are killed with handguns! Why is the government trying to get rid of the "assault" weapon because if you had one of them it would not be near as easy to take you in a tactical assault type of situation. They should be going after what kills almost 16 times as many Americans every year than all murders combined and that is medical malpractice at 225,000 per year. I would feel less afraid of running into gun owner than I am going to the doctor.

I think this thread is just another opportunity for you to tell us what folly the subject matter is. Maybe you should save us all the trouble and answer your own questions. To stay on topic... The Giants are in New York and San Francisco

The BFF is open to anyone who can follow the rules and conduct themselves in a respectful manner. If you feel a member(s) is personally annoying, use the ignore feature. If you feel someone is violating a rule, use the report feature at the bottom of each post. The staff on this forum do an outstanding job but they are not mind readers. And let me say this- If you are an individual who believes that Bigfoot does not and cannot exist, you log on for the sole purpose of reading the content and mocking the membership here and elsewhere....I can tell you that there is a growing intolerance to that mindset on this forum.

Truth? In the time I've been here I haven't seen you add anything to a conversation, all I see is your snarky one line quips and comments taking away, distracting and derailing topics ... ending discussions I would like to see continue because I might learn something. Are you here for any reason other than to stroke your ego by intellectually bullying others? That's a serious question, not the insult it probably looks like. I'm trying to solve the puzzle, not just talk about it as a form of entertainment. I don't care about your faux-intellectual wrangling. I want to hear from the witnesses. Y' know what? Some are indeed full of crap. My ego is not wrapped up in abusing people just because I don't believe them. I listen, I judge, I move on. Nowhere on that list is pronouncing my judgment. Maybe I don't belong here. Folks here have chased most of the witnesses off and gagged the rest. If you think about it, without the witnesses, a bigfoot discussion is pretty much a mental masturbation exercise. That's not what I came here for. People wonder why BF hasn't been proven. The conduct right here on BFF illustrates the answer. Ego ahead of understanding. MIB

No issue with honest skeptics here. I have an issue with dishonest scoffers who call themselves skeptics and masquerade outright abuse of witnesses as "honest questions." MIB

Truer words were never spoken. Do I think that conventions and Bigfoot celebrities cause damage to the larger cause? No. Do I think that these strange people who try to become self appointed gatekeepers of the topic cause damage to the larger cause? Yes. If they had their way, only ‘serious researchers’ such as themselves would be permitted to speak about certain things, and free public discourse would be controlled or eliminated. Bitter, self-appointed experts who constantly demand that others be quiet and bow to their wisdom turn away more potential enthusiasts than Mountain Monsters. And one of those enthusiasts might just be the one to prove Bigfoot’s existence someday. I used to rail against BFRO paid expeditions on this forum, until a couple of members were kind enough to take the time to explain an opposing point of view to me. Just because I don’t find any personal value in those things doesn’t mean that other people shouldn’t have the opportunity to enjoy them if they so desire. At the end of the day, it exposes more people to the subject, many of whom are not able to do what we would define as field research themselves. Real field research is hot, dirty, expensive, time consuming, frustrating, and sometimes dangerous. Just because someone can’t or isn’t willing to endure all of that, doesn’t mean that they can’t have an interest in the subject…even if the version that they are interested in doesn’t necessarily reflect my own experiences. When the shut-in on Facebook starts to lecture you on Bigfoot behavior…just laugh and move on. There’s too many windmills out there to tilt with, so why bother? And if you do argue with them and successfully impose your own viewpoint…well, congratulations. There’s only a few million more out there, so you better get cracking if you want everyone to think the same way as you. At the end of the day, the person who wants to pay to go on a BFRO expedition has absolutely zero effect on me or my efforts. Nor does a little grandmother who collects Bigfoot memorabilia. Nor does a Bigfoot celebrity who brings out his own branded ‘Monster Hot Sauce’. I personally find it a bit cringe, but people might think the same way about me. And I don’t want those people to have the ability to limit or control my actions or speech concerning Sasquatch…so I will afford them the same courtesy. The idea of subjective control of the discussion seems to be appealing to a disturbing number of forum participants these days. I went to the Smokey Mountain conference, mainly because I enjoy watching Paulides give his presentation and I wanted to hear Ron Morehead speak. I approached it with a certain level of hesitancy given some of the participants. I ended up having a ball. A lot of it didn’t appeal to me, but I enjoyed being there and talking to some of the attendees…even the ones who I find to be polar opposite of me on the subject. Enjoyed the heck out of it, and even ended up buying some Cryptid related patches off of a kid who had a table there…just because I found his enthusiasm for the subject infectious. At the end of the day, if you think that Matt Moneymaker and someone’s grandma who collects Bigfoot tchotchkes is going to prevent the eventual proof of these creatures, or if you find yourself bitterly stewing over their very existence…maybe reflect a little upon why you are allowing others to affect you to such a degree. At the end of the day, this subject and it’s pursuit is supposed to be something that brings us joy. If you find yourself hating the subject and everything or anyone involved with it…yet are still involved because you feel that you and you alone can solve the mystery…then I don’t know what to tell you, other than maybe request that you don’t constantly attempt to poison the subject for the rest of us. No one person is ever going to completely control the narrative. This isn’t the day of the Four Horsemen, were only a comparative handful of people were conversant on the subject. There are more YouTube channels and podcasts than you could shake a stick at…. Most of them aren’t my cup of tea, but I don’t have an innate desire to control what others say, hear, or do…so I don’t care. And if you do care? More power to you. I only answered because you asked, and now I will continue my day free from the worry that Matt Moneymaker might be out there somewhere doing something that I disagree with.

Gosh, thank you. This is a great forum, one I've enjoyed immensely. I appreciate every member and poster. Keep on 'squatchin.'

The discussion seems to draw from the description (from the book "Other Origins" ) of how the giganto model was made, and the quotes are reasonably correct. The only error, which Dr. Ciochon made himself, was to say he sought me out, when it was I, looking for anthropologists to team with, found him and made the inquiry about a collaboration. But generally the material in the video is correct. The full scale model was indeed a hypothetical design, given we don't have any fossil material but jawbones and teeth. And it was assumed to be a quardaped, and only posed standing up to show off it's true body size, not to suggest it was bipedal. The one arm was raised to suggest it was standing to reach for some kind of fruit. For the record, I don't consider Giganto as a relative of sasquatch. Based on the PGF figure, I personally think she is a hominid, derived from some relic human form such as paranthapus boisei or early neanderthal. Bill

https://www.thewrap.com/finding-bigfoot-the-search-continues-discovery-plus-video/ Well, the guys from Finding Bigfoot are back to make BF TV great again lol. I know a lot of people have their issues with BF TV but this was one of the best times ive had in years. Getting to go out on the overnight, in my research area, with the crew was amazing. I dont know about the other 2 locations they visit on the show but i know mine was red hot that night. I never go in guns blazing, im a passive observer in this area, but having the crew doing their quick and dirty methods to initiate responses paid off that night. Go check it out on Discovery+ FEB 8th.

I managed to get out for a half day adventure today. I wasn't sure the trails would be passable after yesterday's strong winds, but I didn't encounter any downed trees, just tons of leaves and bits of evergreen boughs littered everywhere. I chose one of my favorite trails off the Harrison East FSR, a branch road that I managed to bag a nice fork horn buck on a few years ago. That luck didn't hold today, as all I saw was squirrels and small birds, plus one small member of the weasel family that played peekaboo with me in a pile of broken rock for a few minutes, from about 4 yards away. There have been at least 5 sightings in this area in the last decade, that I'm aware of, but I couldn't find any sign today. I spent the last hour of daylight glassing a fairly large clearcut that was logged about 5 years ago, then had a forest fire burn through 3 years ago. It was a pleasant way to spend the last bit of a nice day, but nothing at all came into sight before it got too dim to see well. During the 4 hours I was off the main FSR, I didn't see or hear another person or vehicle, which was a surprise, as the parking area at the end of pavement had more empty ATV trailers than I've ever seen there before.

Up a little ways N yesterday for some bog trotting in an area about centrally located between 2 sightings of very differently described creatures, tall, lanky reddish haired adult with shorter assumed juvenile crossing the road and a dark colored, stout individual sighted from a canoe as it stepped up onto a shoreline boulder. About 20 miles apart as the crow flies. Didn't see any BF sign but plenty of color and Northern Pitcher plant: walking old woods roads, giant lichen/moss covered glacial erratics back in here along with old bear tracks crossed a few streams on the way, this was the only misty one: Ran video a bit of the drive out for the hail mary road crossing...

I went backpacking into Emigrant Wilderness over labor day weekend. I read an old report of a daylight BF sighting on the southern end of the Relief Reservoir and wanted to explore that area. Went in at Kennedy Meadows trail-head and climbed up to Upper Relief Valley. Distance was about 9.6 miles and climb about 3,600 ft. Took me 2 days to climb. Unfortunately, the Creek Fire (NE of Fresno) dumped ash and soot on the whole area on Saturday afternoon and I decided to bail out on Sunday (instead of Monday). At 5 pm on Saturday, I could not see the sun and it was a dark as night. But the worst part was that my mesh tent and everything inside was covered with black soot and I was breathing that bad air. I was disappointed with this trip because: 1) Both lower and upper relief valley had cattle grazing (Don't like cows in wilderness areas because they change the wilderness and make non-local sounds). At least the cows did not have bells, like they have in other wilderness areas that I have been to! 2) Kennedy Meadows during labor day weekend is a ghetto - too many people crowded together (though not many people were climbing 3,600 ft to see Upper Relief Valley) I heard a bear at midnight and at 2 am on Sunday, but my Tascam DR-05 died on Friday (day 1). It was probably far away from my location because the granite walls of that area carry sound very well. My FLIR only captured rabbits, squirrels, and cows. Below are some photos of that beautiful area. Probably best to visit on a non-holiday weekend. There were lots of horse back riding into that area via that trail. So I took a photo of a group of horseback riding on the 2nd bridge from KM.

Want to see what I've accomplished sitting in my armchair? I long for your approval so that I can go back to being critical of others. Here is the result of YEARS of effort, classifying encounters into the SSR database. Notice that big open spot in Oregon? As of today there are 7190 classified reports in our database, and most (outside of Washington) were entered by me. Along with that, I've been putting John Green reports on this site since they no longer had a public web location. I did this while adding them to SSR. Feel free to read through the 1000 plus John Green reports that I've placed here, while sitting in my armchair. (Follow this link to see them all) Of course sometimes I need a break from all that time in the armchair, providing nothing, so I get out from time to time. Here is one of my encounters - 2018 Here is another: Oh, and then there is all that audio I've collected. Now if it's ok with you, I can get back to pointing out some of the problems I see with this tv program. I have already admitted its not all bad. I actually like Dr. Mayor and Russell Acord. Those are the kind of people I'd like to hang in the woods with. I'd just prefer to do it without fake drama and lies about how far they have to walk. Edit to add: If they need help trying to figure out how tall the eyes were, I made tool for that.

Norse - that is a sweet setup. Just got back this week from the BWCA in northern MN. Fishing was spectacular for the first two day. Between my buddy and I we caught 80+ fish. Last 2 days were slow, 15-20 mph wind with gusts up to 30 out of the SE which really fouls up fishing from a canoe. Saw a family of otters one day. Highlight of the trip was actually seeing what I believe was a wolf. From about 100 yards, it came out of the woods to drink from the lake at dusk. Soon as it saw us it ran back into the woods. Looked too big and dark colored for a coyote. Wasn’t able to snap a pic. I’ve heard them howling many times but first I’ve actually laid eyes on one.

But you wouldnt say a word. Which is your right to do so. Most habituators love the lime light and notoriety of being "experts" right up until you ask for evidence and then they act like you punched them in the mouth.

I missed this earlier. And I will give credit where credit is due. Dmaker is speaking the truth. As for the rest of it? I dont play Dungeons and Dragons. I dont hang out on Dungeons and Dragons forums and tell them how dumb they are wasting their lives playing it. And I dont belong to a anti Dungeons and Dragons forum where we talk about Dungeons and Dragons players and how dumb they are to waste their time playing the game..... Why? Because its an even dumber waste of time....... And I will say this. Anytime your in the back country for any reason? Its not role play.... No matter if I’m scouting for Elk tracks or Bigfoot tracks? The trails are just as narrow, the cliffs are just as tall, and the rivers are just as wide. I dont care if your scouting for pink unicorns and leprachauns? One slip may be the end. No joke. Its no game. I’ve had horses roll over me and crack ribs, Mules upside down in creeks, bucked off, hypothermia at 10,000 feet in the Bighorns of Idaho in late October. This isnt a “game” for pot smoking, cheetos munching, kids rolling fantasy dice in their parents basement. Bgfoot may be a myth. I dont know for myself. But the rest of it? Is stark reality. I dont even know if you dont live in western north America? If you really even comprehend it. And no that one summer trip to Yellowstone doesnt count. And I guess thats why I bristle at the notion that this is just a role playing game. It may be for some? Sitting around the campfire at some state park campsite in Ohio and tell spooky Bigfoot stories while eating smores, do some wood knocks and whoops, listen to forest sounds and get freaked out together and convince each other that Coyote howl isnt really a Coyote at all...... yah I get the comparison. Thats not me. Try rolling out of your bed roll at 2am in the morning 50 miles from the trail head because the Stock are going ape shit on the highline. You know Griz are in the area as well as Blacks, Wolves, Cougars......because you have seen their tracks, or them. Your out there in your long johns with a rifle and a flashlight...... by yourself. I dont care how skeptical you are..... in the back of your mind? Bigfoot may just be a myth to you sleeping in your warm bed. But out there in the vast wilderness, in the pitch black, when you know something is out there? He haunts the recesses of your mind. He does mine. And I dont have any problem admitting it. When I crawl out of that tent I am ready to face anything with a metallic taste in my dry mouth. I can control my fear but I will not lie and tell you its not there. Its always there. Maybe its because of some ancient artifact in my DNA. Maybe its the experience I had as a child. Maybe its because I too ate smores and listened to stories around the campfire as a kid. Illogical or not? Its there. I would be lying otherwise. And I bet you my bottom dollar? That these scofftic JREFers? Deep down, way down inside, in the pitch black on that camping trip when a heavy branch snaps close to camp? Its there as well. Its visceral. And its probably why they hang around here..... Its like a morbid fascination that they just cannot tear themselves away from. Or maybe its just because they like to make fun of us weak minded folks that cannot 86 it like they can!

There seems to be a common theme among researchers that any circumstantial evidence they present will be "torn to shreds" by skeptics and made fun of. I think this is incorrect. It happens when people present their findings as a fact that it was BF related. I think the presentation has a lot to do with how it is received by the community. For example. When people say: "We got a recording of BF howling and we've eliminated every other possibility" and take it personally when somebody objects, it won't go well. On the other hand, if one presents the same recording as "we recorded something interesting, it could be a BF, but we're not sure", it will get a much better reception and respect. Objectivity in your own data is key. Frankly, you should be the harshest critic of your data, because you collected it and know more about it than anyone else. You should be looking to poke holes into it and look for holes other people identify instead of trying to defend it. You may end up dismissing the objections, but they are valuable feedback. You want the greatest number of eyeballs on it. If you're straight up about it, people will recognize you are just presenting what you got. Instead of making claims about it, just lay it out there, it is what it is. Everyone benefits by learning from it. It's certainly been the case in my experience.

Crow . What does the Manhattan project and the Germans have to do with the title of this thread other than you are doing your usual trolling and arguing about everything, even the off topic stuff?.

Where is the difference? We have hoaxers producing fake bigfoot which leave no real bigfoot in the wake of the hoax and we have said to be genuine bigfoot encounters that leave behind the same wake of no real bigfoot. The bottom line is no real bigfoot in the equation after the hoax has been outed and after the said to be genuine reportage has been made. If there is such a thing as a government shill, Crow, on this forum, I am convinced that you are not one. I perceive the government to be more competent.

Oh jeeeeez..........

I feel frustrated about the direction that the research aspect of the subject seems to have taken. People making outlandish claims, some researchers (term used loosely) presenting findings that cannot be substantiated, and the shows used to entertain do nothing for the seriously interested enthusiast. They all seem to discredit and make light of both the creature and the study of them. There's no shortage of serious research efforts, though. All you have to do is find that niche' among the muck and mire. Personally, I tend to shy away from outlandish claims like mind speak, telepathy, teleportation, association with orbs, and habituation claims with spiritual implications for the humans. It seems that if any of this stuff were true, these "knowers" would present proof of such claims, but, rather conveniently, they claim to choose not to do so because of their desire to protect the creature, or because they feel "special" to have been selected by the creature because of some purity or goodness that they themselves posses. To listen to some of these descriptions of the creature, you'd think they are bullet-proof and clad in a cape. Fortunately, there are more grounded claims and efforts to disseminate more logical and realistic information without all of the anthropomorphic and paranormal associations. These outlandish claims make the topic a target of ridicule and make anyone with a serious interest in the creature look like a lunatic to the majority of the populace. Personally, I think the warm, fuzzy, flute playing, supernatural, wise and benevolent forest hippy persona of the creature has done more to deflect from serious research by the scientific community than anything else.

typical word play in the original post. not blaming the OP, but I am blaming his sources for fear mongering. opening 112M acres for logging doesn't mean that 112M acres will be logged. Today, we log anywhere from 2M to 10M acres a year in the US. The directive from President Trump is to increase logging by 25% domestically. That means 500K to 2.5M acres will be logged out of the 112M acres. We are talking about .45% to 2.23% of the 112M acres being logged. We have 823M acres of forest in the US. When you look at the amount of total forest impact, we are talking about to .06% to .30% of the forest being logged annually under this new rule. Is this really a sky is falling moment? NOT EVEN CLOSE. It is more whipped up hysteria from the true enemy of the people, the media.

While this is "old" news, attached is the obituary and remembrance photograph. These can be copied and forwarded to responsible parties at will by Forum members. Joe here Peter Cyril Byrne WWII Veteran, Conservationist, Explorer, Author: 1925–2023 Peter was born August 22, 1925 in Dublin, Ireland. He was raised with three siblings on their family estate in Ireland. In 1943 he enlisted in the Royal Air Force and was stationed in the East Indian Ocean on the Coco’s Islands off of Australia where he served with distinction until the war ended. When the war ended Peter became a tea planter in northeast India. After a serendipitous encounter in Bombay, he became friends with the King of Nepal’s brother and was granted property in Nepal where Peter conducted hunting safaris in the White Grass Plains of western Nepal. More details of Peter’s early days can be viewed at www.peterCbyrne.com. In 1968, after 18 years of big game hunting, he turned to conservation in Nepal where he convinced the government to create a wildlife preserve, and eventually establish the Sukila Phanta National Park. He said, “I showed them that taking a photograph of a rhinoceros was worth 1,000 times more than shooting it once.” He also pioneered Nepal river rafting, and trekking expeditions on many of his trips to the country. During the Nepal years, Peter also established the non-profit International Wildlife Conservation Society. In the interests of the Society, he traveled globally and through his magnetic personality, established many friends and gained honors, among them a Fellow of the Royal Geographic Society and membership in the Explorers Club of New York. But, spiritually, he was forever drawn to Nepal and the Himalayas, with his last trip to Nepal thought to be in 2012. In Nepal, Peter was sought after by Texas oil man Tom Slick. Slick financed a two year Byrne Himalayan expedition to find the fabled yeti. After few results were found of the yeti, in 1960 Slick brought Peter to northern California and the Pacific Northwest USA to track Bigfoot. That search unfortunately ended with Slick’s sudden death in an airplane crash in 1962. Thereafter, Peter conducted two other, long and well-funded northern Oregon Bigfoot projects. Again, with no physical evidence of Bigfoot, those projects ended in the late 1990s. Peter then moved to Los Angeles, but after never really feeling at home in the overcrowded city, he retired to a home on the banks of the Nestucca River in Pacific City, Oregon. In Pacific City, Peter continued to write the remainder of his 20 books. He also wandered the mountains of the Coastal Range with friends in his continuing quest for sightings of Bigfoot. Peter Cyril Byrne passed away peacefully on July 28, 2023 in Tillamook, Oregon. He is survived by his daughter Rara Byrne now living in Perth, Australia, his sister Beryl Greene of Maidenhead, England, and his life partner of more than 25 years - Cathy Griffin is now living in Pacific City, Oregon in the cabin they shared. Remembrances: A journalism scholarship is being established in Peter’s honor. For information on the fund, and a celebration of life for Peter, please see the website at peterCbyrne.com.

What is unsavory is Hiflier's longstanding "I know best" attitude, and his feeling that he is justified in demanding things from the community as a whole. The bigfoot "enthusiast" community, for lack of a better term, isn't monolithic, nor do all its members share motivations and desires. Many of us don't care a bit about proving anything. Not to science, to friends or family, or to society at large. We want to learn and to experience, not be scolded and dictated to.

“Honey….. I wanna go to America and hang out in the woods with rednecks with guns and search for a mythic man ape”. 🫣🤣

Last weekend, I decided to mix 3 of my favourite activities together, camping, bigfooting, and astronomy. My wife and I headed up a relatively popular FSR (Forest Service Road) that is gated (only members of the local 4WD club have the code). We were hoping to get back to a camping spot we were at 3 years ago, but fell many kilometres short. I put out a recorder (Zoom H4n), but the only sounds we had were a bear that decided to snoop around after I had gone to bed at 2 AM. The weekend wasn't a total loss. I did manage to get some nice photos ...

I've decided my old Ford F150 squatch-mobile is tired and wants to find a new home. We've had a lot of adventures together. It's time to put 'er out to pasture. But I've found something that I think will suit me well in my mid-life crisis. It's being built as we speak. A few tweaks here and there perhaps, but who knows, maybe we'll have some fun together!

zeebob889 is really vinchyfoot, I hate trolls.

This past weekend my "brother from another mother" Bill and I did our annual backpacking trip. Usually we go into a particular basin and do bigfooting things. This year that whole area was smoked out by wildfires upwind so we stirred things up a bit. We hiked into Blue Canyon Basin in the Sky Lakes Wilderness. It is a broad, shallow glacial cirque in the head of the South Fork of Rogue River in the Cascade Range between Crater Lake to the north and Mt McLoughlin in the south. There was fairly heavy haze as we left town but it got better as we neared Blue Canyon trailhead. The trailhead is on top of a ridge. From the TH the trail drops steadily but gradually to valley floor passing one lake on the canyon wall and meeting at several at the canyon bottom. To that point the trail is heavily traveled but gets less traffic depending on which direction you choose. We headed east past some lakes under the back rim of the cirque. We passed the turnoff to Blue Canyon Lake which hangs high on the back wall of the cirque. (We came back to this trail and used it getting out of the basin .. more of that later.) On the way in we passed Horseshoe and Pear Lakes, climbed a low ridge, and dropped past Dee Lake to Island Lake. My intent was to camp at Dee Lake but we missed it ... out of sight of the trail. Though I had never been there I recognized Island Lake when we arrived. We set up camp at Island Lake, filtered some water, ate dinner, and went to bed not long after dark. Sometime not much later the wind blew what was left of the smoke out of the basin and we had a great view of stars, Jupiter, and later the moon. Saturday AM we woke up to this at Island Lake: ... no smoke!! NONE!! We got up fairly early but it was after 9:00 a by the time we had breakfast and broke camp. The day stayed clear, at least up high, but heated up a bit. We reversed course and headed back with intent to take a different trail up out of the basin. We stopped at Pear Lake for a while, then after a short walk, we stopped for lunch and a nap beside Horseshoe Lake: After a break we hiked the last half mile to the junction with the Blue Canyon Lake trail. At that junction, the fun ended and the work began. Trails within the basin were fairly level and more or less maintained. The Blue Canyon Lake trail was neither. The lake is about 2/3 of the way up the trail to the ridge but off a few hundred yards through some gnarly brush. There had been some maintenance attempted as far as the lake. It ended there. Also the yellowjackets, which had been noticeably absent, began there. We stopped about where we figured lake level should be and I bushwhacked to the lake. It was not a fun bushwhack. The lake was pretty gross. The water looked clear but the lake bottom seemed coated with a bright yellow-green plant layer. There were no obvious camping spots. I decided we should move on. The last 1/3 of the trail to the ridge, along with the Cat Hill Way trail which ran along the ridge 2.5 miles or so back to my truck, was littered with fallen logs and had a lot of impinging brush .. mostly huckleberry. That whole section was overrun with yellowjackets as well. I almost stepped in one ground nest. No stings, but .. close. From the trailhead, we drove back to where we had cell service, phoned home / checked in with Bill's wife and my GF, then drove to where he usually parks his trailer in hunting season and camped one more night to finish off the mountain house, etc. Good trip. No bigfoot. No tracks. No vocalizations (though I have not reviewed the audio recording from the night yet). No heavy "vibe" as the research area gets when they are around. Time to start figuring out something for next year ...

You could have saved me a lot of typing by just stating you are a JREFer. I thought I was having a legitimate conversation.

Last Saturday, I finally got out in the H3 to an area I hadn't visited in about 20 years. It involves a steep climb up one creek drainage, a traverse along a very rough ridgeline trail, and an even steeper descent down the next creek drainage to the north. Total distance is not much more than 10km (6.2mi), but it took from 11AM to 4Pm to drive that distance, with stops to check for tracks and scat. It was overcast and showery all day, with a smattering of snow along the 6,000 ft. ridge, but even the limited views were great, looking down on the Chilliwack River valley on one side of the ridge, and the Fraser Valley and the town of Chilliwack on the other side. A couple of washed out bear tracks were the the only signs of wildlife for the day.

I’m just back from 2 months or so out West. A month of that spent on Cedar Mesa in SE Utah, wandering down rarely traveled side canyons and up over mesas. It’s not exactly prime Sasquatch habitat but it was a trip afield and my eyes were always out for the anomalous. I saw no signs of our big footed quarry, not surprisingly, nor much sign of less cryptid critters, no rattlers, no cougar tracks, though I did see bobcat and coyote prints, and heard the latter sometimes at night. Bighorn sheep were seen a few times down those seldom visited canyons and Pronghorn and Mule deer up top but pleasantly, no indication of human presence. None of the ubiquitous bud lite cans and no trails, not even footprints, just wilderness **** near the way it was a thousand years ago. On setting out from coastal Maine, my intention was to camp somewhere each night along the way as travelers used to—finding a spot that looked good where one wouldn’t be harassed or attacked by marauding bands of any sort of law, out or otherwise and that was not atop asphalt or concrete. I knew this would be easier once I crossed the Mississippi but I didn't suspect Iowa and Nebraska would be so difficult to hide in. it sure is along the I-80 corridor. With the exception of being awoken one morning by tribal police down a heavily rutted and water-holed two-track just South of Lake Erie on the border of the Cattaraugus reservation (They were concerned I was dumping tires or some such.) and the asphalt that 2 of my tires were parked on outside of Moab, Ut, I managed that for 45 nights or so. It was a trip filled with amazing vistas and long eye stretches not to be had in the thickly forested geography of home. Many nights spent perched along canyon rims looking 1000’ down to the wash or river below and not another soul incarnate for miles around, just the ghosts of the ancestors and the mute yet intelligent silence of stone. Segments of that stone had interesting glyphs pecked into it, somewhat representative of a familiar figure. At the end of my journey, after a sojourn in SLC, UT and along with a fellow conspirator we made the trip out to Skinwalker Ranch, a place I’d heard of but not really known much about. After a wee bit of research we decided to check it out. It is still gated and surveilled by cameras with large no trespassing signs at the entrance to the property. It is also guarded by savage skinwalkers in the form of Owls ( we watched a Great Horned for 10 minutes as it hunted the pasture from telephone pole tops) and dogs, one of which attacked the front tire of the vehicle we were in then assumed such a friendly demeanor so as to lure us out of the car and most assuredly claw our hearts out. We weren’t fooled, though later that night we did return to feed him a blueberry muffin:) Skinwalker ridge, above the ranch was our chosen vantage point and is probably accessible had we been in the Rover but we weren’t at the time so we settled for walking across the sagebrush pasture to the South under cover of darkness. After covering maybe a third of the way, my companion began feeling a sense of dread over not what was ahead but what was behind and suggested we leave. I know to trust that intuition and put up no resistance, so back we headed through the scrub and over the barbed wire into town and a somewhat less dangerous venue--Taco Time for fried empenadas…And that’s about all folks.

Well, comments like that will help to ensure a one sided conversation. I can't believe you actually just said to the entire membership here that if you don't agree with me, your opinion does not count. Your arrogance has reached a new height. I'd say congratulations, but you're probably already patting your own back.

Link to the paper: http://1drv.ms/1BnR9hm I am away from WiFi access until Saturday. I do hope you enjoy the research! Original thread. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/50970-what-about-the-bones/

Inability to respond? No, it was a refusal to respond, and he admittedly refused to read the questions about what he'd presented.