The Ramifications Of Species Verification

[Guest]

Just about everyone who is involved in this endeavor goes through the thought process of wanting to see the sasquatch receive protection, I am not excluded from this group. However, having had the encounters I've had, I try to look at unanticipated outcomes here too. I have given much thought to this, thus I seriously wonder if we are encouraging the opening of a Pandora's Box in this race to prove their existence to the world? Before I took off on my elk hunt I was able to complete another new post on my blog page. But people have to see it in order for the topic to be considered. The subject I raise is one which I feel is very important for everyone to consider, and so I wanted to point to it here and maybe give BFF something more to talk about during the slow holiday period.

And for those of you who were following the Skookum Cast thread, well, we got our first elk on the first day and the second on the third day, and so we headed home early after dealing with the animals. So I don't have anything more to offer right now in that thread as the elk hunt was over so quickly and successfully, I didn't even get to locate any animals bedded down as hoped given the short time there. It was a good trip however.

Anyway, the topic I address is not an easy one to discuss but the reality of poaching and other activities is a reality that cannot be ignored. And while even poachers will not just be able to go out and find a bigfoot, it doesn't mean they won't be trying and thus leading to increased harassment of the species. Plus, protection in North America provides zero protection in other third world countries. For once they know the species actually exists, they will see opportunity where there never was before. Simply providing ESA Protection in the US and Canada will only have limited impact in a time of a new paradigm world wide. And even if other countries also offer protection, well legal protection under the law is only as powerful as the enforcement that is available. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for the authorities to be everywhere in the wilds. That is a reality even here in the Pacific Northwest. Black Markets are also a reality.

So there is the Link to my blog's latest entry. I feel its an important topic and that it deserves discussion given all the chat going on with the DNA Analysis and other ongoing proof claims. I fear that those who are on those trains only have one goal in mind and that is proving these species exist. Well, they need to understand that their actions have potential ramifications too. Those potential ramifications can be a very dark thing.

[Guest StankApe]

I highly doubt that IF Ketchum's report becomes fact that the entire world will suddenly discover the methodology to capture and exploit Bigfoot... New animals are discovered all the time and we aren't a particularly poaching society in the USA relative to other areas... It'll be a blurb on the news. Will some yahoos try? Yes... Will said yahoos all of a sudden gain the ability to stealthily kill one? I doubt it...

If Bigfoot is real, he has stayed out of the spotlight for eons, I doubt all of a sudden that he's going to go from cryptid to prey.

[Guest BuzzardEater]

I struggle to imagine any positives for the subjects of this "affirmation".

Before court actions declare them citizens they will be open to any sort of abuse. I think the DNA will have immediate applications and become quite valuable. Any venture with confirmed samples will have the opportunity to mess about with them, unregulated. This will always be a rare commodity and therefore it can be assumed demand will exceed supply, causing competition for what is available.

Drug companies are huge research machines that must produce advancements to survive. What would a short-cut be worth to them? A similar to human test subject would be a dream come true for some companies. Who knows what immunities they might have? These things can be explored using existing technology.

The lack of existing precedent points to a lack of ethical study. Never before have we as a species faced questions about Cloning and genetic manipulation. These are uncharted waters, so to speak. There is no governing body with direct jurisdiction overseeing the laboratories of the world, anyway.

Edited November 25, 2011 by BuzzardEater

[BobbyO]

I'm not sure i'm understanding it right PT..

Having lived in the third world now for nearly 8 Years, in a Country where Poaching is as much an issue as it is for lots of other third world Countries, i have learned that there are genuine reasons for why people poach as they do, & that invariably is $$ in order to be able to provide food for their families.

Now, granted, in the US you will have the same bottom line, & add to that materialism i'd guess & greed & you may have the same problem.

But where would the demand be ??

The demand for Bush Meat in Africa for example is simple, hunger.

People need to eat & they simply do not care about conservation when their Kids have no food & i can understand that.

In Asia, with the Reptiles & other things, there is generally a market driven by the Chinese for Medicinal purposes & to a lower scale personal collectors, which i despise.

Where would BF fit in though ??

Above JR Ewing's Fire Place ??

Edit : After reading Buzzards post ^^ which makes perfect sense. But the thing is, we simply just don't know what will happen.

It is so uncertain on lots of levels currently that we just don't know how it will be received..

The good thing however is that whatever price would be put on one's head, the likelihood of Billy Bob getting anywhere near one remains as slim as ever thankfully..

Just one last thing, this type of possibility ( that Buzz mentioned ) is one of the big reasons that there's part of me that hopes all this DNA stuff fails & why i'm not that bothered if it actually does, as it won't make one iota of difference in my stance on thd subject if it does or doesn't..

Edited November 25, 2011 by BobbyO

[Guest Strick]

Is the Sasquatch were to become a verified species in North America this would by no means prove that ALL the undocumented hominids worldwide actually existed. It would just make the proposition more likely.

As Bobby O rightly states, poaching is generally driven by financial motives or a more basic need to eat. If I were a poacher in Sumatra it would not occur to me to redouble my efforts to serve up roast Orang Pendek just because a Sasquatch had been discovered in the PNW.

We know that, if these creatures exist, they are about as elusive and cryptic as can be. Just because one animal might eventually come to the attention of science, it does not mean that they are going to be any easier for the average person, using average hunting or poaching techniques, to locate.

[Guest Jodie]

I think too much has been made of the DNA study. The most that might come from this first study is that there is indeed something unidentified living in the North American woods. I have no idea if anyone else in the world is doing something similar with their version of the wild man. If they are they aren't talking about it on the BFF. At worst, the study results will be refuted.

Assuming that we do identify something exists out there, it's like Stankape pointed out, you have to catch it first. We have gone 50 years so far and no one has done that yet even though Justin had the opportunity. Does that mean that if something is acknowledged as existing in our woods that hunters who happen up on one may be less hesitant to bring a bigfoot body in? I seriously doubt any average person would bring one in alive unless it is a small child that is captured.

Use during medical testing is a possibility, but you are assuming that these creatures are closer to us genetically than chimpanzees. That may or may not be the case. As for cloning and other experimentation, if Justin and his friend have what they say they have there would be no need to kill another bigfoot. The cells from that sample can be used for ever for cloning and genetic experiments.

There are laws that govern labs and genetic testing,human cloning is illegal in most countries, but there is still much that needs to be thought out as we advance in the genetics field. I would think that instead of pushing to protect a species that may or may not exist, and if it does, may not need our protection, that the efforts be focused in this direction. You will get more results that are positive for human existence and indirectly for the bigfoot species that you are concerned about.

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/human-genetic-engineering.htm

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/genetic+engineering

[Guest Thepattywagon]

For every overzealous person who will use the verification of this species as an excuse to 'go bag one', I can imagine there being many more who would now choose to stick to the paved roads and populated campgrounds, instead of venturing into the back country where the 'monster' lurks.

At least I HOPE this would be the case.

[Guest]

So if the issue of genetic manipulation becomes a standard measure here, well such a safeguard can't be further from the truth. Yes there are many countries that have bans in place, but look at this list that shows all the countries that don't have bans. Decisions that have been signed into law. This is where drug companies and even the 'mad scientist' type go in order to carry out their work. There are safe havens for such research.

LINK

And yeah, this has the potential to become a threat too. Look at the abilities which these beings have. Then look at some of the countries and how they each want power of some sort on the national stage. Many dictators also lack ethics boundaries, so who is to stop them from what some might consider groundbreaking research?

As far as I am concerned, there is no question whatsoever as to the existence of these beings. Some here obviously have never had any such affirmation of their own as to their existence, but those individuals might need to accept that there are people who are more apt to having encounters. Not everyone who has encounters will be so ethically bound either. Such individuals may even become more easily apt to sell out to those who will pay for a chance to harvest one. This is how the poaching market often works, by finding those who need money and know the wilderness in their area. And as for 'poaching', well we aren't really talking about bush meat either, but more the medicines and similar archaic uses for parts, the same as Rhino horn or Bear gall bladder is used. Bear gall bladders harvested from the PNW are sold to Asian markets all the time. LINK To improve ones health by ingesting rare parts from a more powerful animal has been going on for thousands of years. It won't stop anytime soon either, and to think that bigfoot won't find its place in this lucrative illegal market is frankly shortsighted, especially given the unusual abilities that sasquatch are believed to have. There IS a reason why the Native Americans haven't shared all their knowledge about Sasquatch. Just yesterday for Thanksgiving I spent time with some NA friends, and of course we talked about sasquatch too. They have good reason to not share everything they know with modern society.

But then there are also the arrogant rich big game hunters who want every animal in existence mounted on their walls. They do exist, and while the majority here may not be familiar with this part of society either, they are out there and many of them will pay lots of money for the opportunity.

Stankape, I never said or implied that the Ketchum Report will be any kind of 'methodology' for capturing bigfoot. It is also just one effort under way now too. Such verifications however will provide affirmation that these creatures do indeed exist. Some here are also aware of the various 'hunts' that have already occurred to harvest a specimen. There are a few people on this board even that have been involved in such hunts. Sadly they are from groups who see sasquatch as just an ape too. I imagine they have also ramped up their efforts given the present studies because obviously and undeniably, competition exists in this field. In these situations, it is often the unfortunate alleged outcome that one has been maimed. Unfortunately most of these activities are not announced or promoted either, but once again, there are others here who know they exist. Jodie, I don't believe that the alleged parts from the Sierra Shooting (if that actually occurred), will prevent the oncoming demand by scientists for a body. Its hard to assume this. And when the debate begins whether to provide ESA Protection for the species, well we've seen nothing yet with respect to the opposition. One example WILL BE the timber industry lobbyists who will demand absolute proof of the species before offering such protection. This will become just another driving force in the big picture of getting proof.

Nobody can say how things will pan out, I am just offering a perspective from my experiences and research. It is often difficult to predict the future of events but if you compare similar issues, they can offer a hint of things to come. Black market poaching for various reasons is a reality with every rare species, the ramifications of such shouldn't be disregarded with sasquatch.

[BobbyO]

But then there are also the arrogant rich big game hunters who want every animal in existence mounted on their walls. They do exist, and while the majority here may not be familiar with this part of society either, they are out there and many of them will pay lots of money for the opportunity.

Absolutely, the same Guys that go to Africa & kill Male Lions & Bull Elephants..

We're dealing with a very different Beast here though, clearly.

[Guest Jodie]

You are correct PT, hence the reason I said this is where we need to focus our efforts, to prevent genetic manipulation of any creature for the purpose of creating an unnatural/altered, viable, and mature entity. Genetic engineering and research is progressing in leaps and bounds, and that is a great and wonderful thing for medical research, but we need to make sure legislation and enforcement stays ahead of the potential abuses of the technology. Unfortunately, I don't see that realistically happening once nations realize it is cheaper to grow super soldiers, once we are capable of doing such a thing, than it is to invest in the development of more high tech machine weaponry. That will happen with or without a bigfoot, but may happen faster if we have a sasquatch genome for a model.

[Guest]

It's not going to be proven to exist until we can lay our eyes on one. Just as it is today, seeing is believing. We need a clear pic, one in a cage, or a dead one in the back of a pickup truck before it is proven and accepted. DNA will open alot of eyes though.

DNA and possibly Erickson's footage may do it.

[Guest Strick]

I'm glad the evidence is leading us down the 'homo' rather than the 'pongid' road. In the long run, it means that the species is far less likely to be considered 'big game'. I'm not naive and realise that a few individual sickos might want a trophy Homo Sapien Hirsuitis, but it seems clear to me that this would soon be seen by the majority as morally repugnant . We do not consider it acceptable to display the heads of Zulus or Apaches on the walls of executive offices or hunting lodges and, with time, Saquatches could be thought of the same way.

Jodie, your vision of genetically modified Sasquatch-Soldiers reminds me of the super breed of Orcs cultivated in the Lord of the Rings. I hope your prediction is a long time coming!

[Guest vilnoori]

Well, the first place potential sasquatch hunters go is to people who have said they have seen one. In other words, they come here, and they would peruse the BFRO reports. It therefore would be a good policy for a time if they are verified to pull all reports that provide a location, until the furor dies down, at least. Are we prepared? That also means being prepared to get the word out to researchers who know a good location or have a habituation going on, to stay mum for a time.

[indiefoot]

Wouldn't it depend on whether Dr. Kethchums' paper causes enough interest for some universities to quietly put out the word that they would be willing to pay for a specimen?

[Guest]

I think Villnori we're already seeing less reports made public this year pending the outcome of the DNA Study.