bipedalist Posted January 12, 2019 BFF Patron Share Posted January 12, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 6:14 AM, NCBFr said: I was told by moderators on arrowheads.com that these two I found in Guilford county NC are called stem points and from the Savannas and are are roughly 3-5K years old. I cannot imagine finding something 10K years older. The one on top is missing the point and the one on the bottom is missing a shoulder. I'd like to see the points but it seems the graphic file is corrupted or did not load ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCBFr Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catmandoo Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 ^^^^^ Stem points. Did the moderators inform you that stem point design originated in Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted January 12, 2019 BFF Patron Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the pic, several of the attachment ends are similar to paleo-Cherokee items I have, meaning the asymmetrical flaking for hafting where one side is more of an acute angle chipped out than the other for attachment to a shaft is similar in many of mine and with your two examples above. I am wondering if the asymmetric nature of it was a survival design to leave more material so not as many discards/failures occurred? I do not know enough about the historiography/archaeology of the differing cultures and points to say much more. This has always been a curious element of many of the finds that I have. I have no ability to take pictures of them now but will post them up when able to show the similarities to what you have there. I only have one large spear point with the top third of the point missing from the site I described above in my earlier post, it is a beautiful yellow quartz one. and I believe it has the asymmetric haft aft (not to be confused with half assed 🤓 ) . Edited January 12, 2019 by bipedalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCBFr Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 12:27 AM, Catmandoo said: ^^^^^ Stem points. Did the moderators inform you that stem point design originated in Korea? No, Savannah is a far they went and it was not universal consensus but if you do the work you would agree with that sentiment. Cool if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCBFr Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 5:34 PM, bipedalist said: Thanks for the pic, several of the attachment ends are similar to paleo-Cherokee items I have, meaning the asymmetrical flaking for hafting where one side is more of an acute angle chipped out than the other for attachment to a shaft is similar in many of mine and with your two examples above. I am wondering if the asymmetric nature of it was a survival design to leave more material so not as many discards/failures occurred? I do not know enough about the historiography/archaeology of the differing cultures and points to say much more. This has always been a curious element of many of the finds that I have. I have no ability to take pictures of them now but will post them up when able to show the similarities to what you have there. I only have one large spear point with the top third of the point missing from the site I described above in my earlier post, it is a beautiful yellow quartz one. and I believe it has the asymmetric haft aft (not to be confused with half assed 🤓 ) . My moms side of the family is from outside Asheville and I am 1/16th Cherokee (suck it Warren). I live and found these (and a couple others lost in time) on the confluence of a couple of streams and rivers that would make sense as a focus point for a first generation population. The fact I found them 100 feet from each other tells me it is not a hunting accident. Beyond that who knows. Would love to see the pics of yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted January 17, 2019 BFF Patron Share Posted January 17, 2019 13 hours ago, NCBFr said: My moms side of the family is from outside Asheville and I am 1/16th Cherokee (suck it Warren). I live and found these (and a couple others lost in time) on the confluence of a couple of streams and rivers that would make sense as a focus point for a first generation population. The fact I found them 100 feet from each other tells me it is not a hunting accident. Beyond that who knows. Would love to see the pics of yours. I have thought it interesting that I am more Neanderthal than she is NA. Maybe should apply for some money from the French Government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtex Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 I am still having camera issues with my photos rotating strange directions no matter how I get them into my computer., need to drop by the apple store I guess....will just post the lopsided pics anyway, lol. Say hello to my new best woods friend......Mr. Silky. Bought this about a year ago, and WOW, what a cutting beast! Not cheap at around $150, but it's heavy duty and well made,. This will carry easy and make short work of your cutting needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtex Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Here are a few of the stone tools and weapons that I find......a buddy has my prettier flint stuff. I used to think the stone tools predated the pretty and finally crafted flint items, but not so sure anymore, at least in my specific area. Now I am thinking that the craftsmen and their skills were lost in some type of disaster, be it natural or warfare,. The skilled folks who made the good stuff weren't around anymore, and the survivors had to do their best with their skill level & available materials. I find most of the good flint stuff in certain areas in and around the old village. The stone tools are scattered around the hills, and they seem to be telling a more disparate story. Make no mistake though, the crude stone weapons I find will do the job no problem......check out the big Axe, you can see where the handle use to attach, it's really heavy, and would take a very strong person to swing that one......a real skull crusher. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTreeWalker Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Bigtex said: Say hello to my new best woods friend......Mr. Silky. Bought this about a year ago, and WOW, what a cutting beast! Not cheap at around $150, but it's heavy duty and well made,. This will carry easy and make short work of your cutting needs. I've got a slightly smaller Silky my son got me for Christmas a year ago. Nice saws. I carry mine in my vehicle for those trees across the roads after the wind storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted January 18, 2019 BFF Patron Share Posted January 18, 2019 23 hours ago, NCBFr said: My moms side of the family is from outside Asheville and I am 1/16th Cherokee (suck it Warren). I live and found these (and a couple others lost in time) on the confluence of a couple of streams and rivers that would make sense as a focus point for a first generation population. The fact I found them 100 feet from each other tells me it is not a hunting accident. Beyond that who knows. Would love to see the pics of yours. I have smaller projectile points, drills, knives, scrapers, the one spear point, some old decorated pottery shard. Materials were quartz, (rose, smoky, yellow and clear) slate, chert, etc. One of my favorites is a zebra colored (black/white striped) chert woodland point totally triangular, dropped it on a ceramic fireplace tile one day and had to reglue the sucker, taught me to find a new way to display such things. My maternal side is from the TN/NC border mtn counties and have some full blooded great grandparents but nothing close to a 16th for me (did have a Cherokee beloved woman greatgrandmother on that side); I believe the closest I could get to date is 3.12% or 1/32nd, might be a hair better than that with multiple lines of ancestors with Cherokee blood. For me it is educational only. It would be easy to see how the Neanderthal might overwhelm in some instances for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatFoot Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 23 hours ago, Bigtex said: Here are a few of the stone tools and weapons that I find......a buddy has my prettier flint stuff. I used to think the stone tools predated the pretty and finally crafted flint items, but not so sure anymore, at least in my specific area. Now I am thinking that the craftsmen and their skills were lost in some type of disaster, be it natural or warfare,. The skilled folks who made the good stuff weren't around anymore, and the survivors had to do their best with their skill level & available materials. I find most of the good flint stuff in certain areas in and around the old village. The stone tools are scattered around the hills, and they seem to be telling a more disparate story. Make no mistake though, the crude stone weapons I find will do the job no problem......check out the big Axe, you can see where the handle use to attach, it's really heavy, and would take a very strong person to swing that one......a real skull crusher. You sure those aren't just rocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtex Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 They've definitely been crudely worked IMO, I've seen enough of them to tell when they'e been worked. Not everyone in the village could make the finally crafted stuff, what did they do when those guys were gone, and they rest were on the run?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted January 18, 2019 BFF Patron Share Posted January 18, 2019 There is a lot of controversy in the archaeology / paleontology world about primitive stone tools and what constitutes a tool without working of the stone. The very question about what is a tool and a natural rock find often hinges on presence of fire circles and geology. If the rock is not natural for the area or is in close proximity to a fire circle it is presumed that the rock is a tool even without intentional working of the stone. That discrimination most often causes the timeline of early man to be adjusted or in question because early man used rocks as tools but did not work them. But put a rock next to a fire circle and the likelyhood it was a tool is much greater. Any rock of sufficient size can be used as a tool to break open bones to get marrow. Rocks are examined for microscopic chipping because of impact looking for signs of use. I would suspect that Texas has been inhabited far earlier than previously thought but not likely earlier than evidence of stone working. . And while the rocks in the pictures may not show much evidence of working, the other possibility is that they might not have been used by First Peoples but used by the resident BF. That could explain lack of working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtex Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 I think they were fashioned by the unskilled hand quickly, so not pretty, but make no mistake......they are all brutally effective, which is all that mattered for the maker. I like to handle them thoroughly with each hand, especially the tools, as some just fit better for a left or right hand. Get them in your hand, meditate, and sometimes they will talk to you.....no I'm not crazy (yet:) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts