Losing The Faith....

[Huntster]

Last item first Huntster, you've heard of the guy in Alaska who had the bears come to his place for some 25 years and would interact with them right?

Very well. I never went there, but had friends go there and get photographed petting the bears.

Dumb, I say.

I know a guy who visited there and have just as equal contact with both griz and blackies (at the same time). This guy has also seen a bf while hunting and he never wants to see one again. He feels more comfortable having a wild griz laying his head in his lap.

Sorry. I don't want a bear (black, brown, or polar) in my lap any more than a sasquatch. I'll give them room. But if they get aggressive, I'll blow them to Kingdom Come, and I've got the hardware to do it.

I don't care how big they are. Even elephants, rhinos, and hippos die after being shot. Whales, too.

I don't accept the "super-beast" claims. Not with today's firepower.

It's not merely their size, its their presence as what seems a giant human. They affect you more to your soul. You 'feel' they are not something you are not supposed to shoot. Granted, I was only deer hunting during my face to face 5 yrs ago and had a measly 30-30, but I don't think I'd feel much different if I had an 8 mm Mag. You're not just looking at an animal like a griz. Your looking at possibly your own evolutionary past.

I can understand that, but I know full well what my .450 Marlin, .338 WinMag, and/or .300 WinMag rifles are capable of. I likely would not assassinate a sasquatch, but if it is aggressive, it will end up dead.

I 'was' feeding them, didn't go up at all last Summer for a few reasons. Sometimes I would inadvertently feed the bears, coyotes, ravens, and squirrels instead.

I bait bears and am still amazed at how much dog food a red squirrel can steal.

Question: are sasquatches territorial? IOW, do they tend to stay in a locale for a lifetime, or are they nomadic and will move long distances away and never come back?

[Guest]

Question: are sasquatches territorial? IOW, do they tend to stay in a locale for a lifetime, or are they nomadic and will move long distances away and never come back?

Sheesh, how am I supposed to know? What do you think I am some bigfoot expert? lol

Again to bring my situation into perspective. My first visual encounter was 34 yrs ago in Yosemite Nat Park, the next one was almost 10 years later here in Oregon while deer hunting, the next one was 5 years ago again while deer hunting. There have been occasional non-visual encounters between. It is only in the last 4 years almost now that I've tried to understand them more and not see them as the proverbial Giganto. The last one I saw was while on a solo elk hunt 2 seasons ago as it was watching my camp before dawn. Took that one in stride but made the mistake of pulling out a spotlight to try and see it better. Anyway, my point is, I haven't spent the last 34 years studying them to know the answers. Ask me in 10 years will ya, maybe I'll know more? lol

But I do know that the ones I returned to were there 2 years later. While I 'believe' it's one of the same ones, I can't prove it. Just gut feeling based on their behavior. When I couldn't reach my site due to heavy snows, I found an area in lower elevations where I had interactions with some (rock clacking, wood knocking & some chatter), but can't say they were the same ones either. My gut feeling was that they would move to lower elevations in the Winter, but that's just a matter of a few miles in this country.

I personally don't feel they migrate long distances as a normal pattern. I suspect that those who have 'families' stick to an area they have come to know. I don't think they are territorial like other animals are. Of course the old dad will probably keep a close eye on the young beau from the next ridge who is eyeing his daughter. lol They probably unite to keep the aggressive rogues away too. But no, I don't think they are nomadic as a rule. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

As I am sure you know, there is plenty of food out in the woods for them if you know what to look for. Those who don't have a feel for the wild, don't think there is enough food out there to support a large species like sasquatch. There's plenty for an omnivore to find. That doesn't mean that in some regions where food sources are season dependent, that they wouldn't need to adapt to shortages by relocating each season. Some may even do it in the PNW for that matter. Maybe bachelors do move around? Maybe rogues do? Those are the ones I worry about. There are probably many variables to their behavior just like with anything.

[Huntster]

Question: are sasquatches territorial? IOW, do they tend to stay in a locale for a lifetime, or are they nomadic and will move long distances away and never come back?

Sheesh, how am I supposed to know? What do you think I am some bigfoot expert? lol

No, but if you're feeding/baiting them, you're that much more ahead than I am, and that might give you a clue on their presence over the long term as well as seasonally.

Again to bring my situation into perspective. My first visual encounter was 34 yrs ago in Yosemite Nat Park, the next one was almost 10 years later here in Oregon while deer hunting, the next one was 5 years ago again while deer hunting. There have been occasional non-visual encounters between. It is only in the last 4 years almost now that I've tried to understand them more and not see them as the proverbial Giganto. The last one I saw was while on a solo elk hunt 2 seasons ago as it was watching my camp before dawn. Took that one in stride but made the mistake of pulling out a spotlight to try and see it better. Anyway, my point is, I haven't spent the last 34 years studying them to know the answers. Ask me in 10 years will ya, maybe I'll know more? lol

My one and only experience was with a good quality footprint track way just south of Sequoia National Park, northeast of Porterville, in 1972, near Soda Springs. We had an animal in camp that night, but I can't say it was a sasquatch. The footprints were unmistakable to me.

We stopped going to Yosemite after 1967. The hippies took the place over during the Summer of Love. Dad was furious. I've never been back.

But I do know that the ones I returned to were there 2 years later. While I 'believe' it's one of the same ones, I can't prove it. Just gut feeling based on their behavior. When I couldn't reach my site due to heavy snows, I found an area in lower elevations where I had interactions with some (rock clacking, wood knocking & some chatter), but can't say they were the same ones either. My gut feeling was that they would move to lower elevations in the Winter, but that's just a matter of a few miles in this country.

Bears pop their teeth when nervous, upset, or excited. Do you thing rock clacking, wood knocking, and the chatter was a nervous reaction to your presence?

I heard what may have been wood knocking on the Huslia River in 2001, but at the time I thought it was a bull moose popping his antler on a tree. I'd never heard a moose do that before. Usually they rake the tree, not "smack" it repeatedly with one antler. Simultaneously, a pack of wolves were just howling away near the top of Billy Hawk Hill. Those wolves never did shut up. We downed a huge bull moose, and opened it's gut before it got dark, but had to leave it there until morning. I was worried that the wolves would get into it, but they didn't. We got there at dawn (cause the birds damned sure would get into it) and found it the way we left it, but the wolves were still howling.

I personally don't feel they migrate long distances as a normal pattern. I suspect that those who have 'families' stick to an area they have come to know. I don't think they are territorial like other animals are. Of course the old dad will probably keep a close eye on the young beau from the next ridge who is eyeing his daughter. lol They probably unite to keep the aggressive rogues away too. But no, I don't think they are nomadic as a rule. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

I suspect young males have to range out to find their own territory. I believe this is what the majority of sightings near towns and roads are about.

As I am sure you know, there is plenty of food out in the woods for them if you know what to look for. Those who don't have a feel for the wild, don't think there is enough food out there to support a large species like sasquatch. There's plenty for an omnivore to find. That doesn't mean that in some regions where food sources are season dependent, that they wouldn't need to adapt to shortages by relocating each season.

I agree. Even here in Alaska during a very dry summer/fall when the berry crop doesn't do well, the bears still manage. Sometimes, in especially bad berry years, bear attacks on humans occur more often, especially from black bears.

[Guest Spazmo]

My one and only experience was with a good quality footprint track way just south of Sequoia National Park, northeast of Porterville, in 1972, near Soda Springs. We had an animal in camp that night, but I can't say it was a sasquatch. The footprints were unmistakable to me.

I used to live very close to this area. Our community was surrounded on three sides by the Sequoia National Park.

And I also do a lot of camping just outside of Yosemite....the hippies are gone now.

[Guest]

Bears pop their teeth when nervous, upset, or excited. Do you thing rock clacking, wood knocking, and the chatter was a nervous reaction to your presence?

Not a chance on the nervous reaction aspect. Heck, you can communicate back and forth with them with the clacking & wood knocking. It's a very deliberate action on their part. I just wish we could figure out the whole knocking language. The only commonality that many people seem to pick up is that 3 knocks has something to do with meaning 'human!'. This may have been confirmed for me as well a few times, once more so then others as I was approaching a backup Winter site in the lightest quietest 8" of powder snow ever idling in my vehicle with my window open. And I heard it just as I arrived. Three clean loud wood knocks. I'll bet there have been dozens of others like that I didn't hear when I approached on the noisy aggregate logging roads.

I heard what may have been wood knocking on the Huslia River in 2001, but at the time I thought it was a bull moose popping his antler on a tree. I'd never heard a moose do that before. Usually they rake the tree, not "smack" it repeatedly with one antler. Simultaneously, a pack of wolves were just howling away near the top of Billy Hawk Hill. Those wolves never did shut up. We downed a huge bull moose, and opened it's gut before it got dark, but had to leave it there until morning. I was worried that the wolves would get into it, but they didn't. We got there at dawn (cause the birds damned sure would get into it) and found it the way we left it, but the wolves were still howling.

Could be you did hear knocking?! At least nowadays you know what to listen for.

Get this, about 4 years ago I was in 'The Hole' where I elk hunt. Every hunt area has one. I was actually trying to push some animals out towards my partner that year. I was making sinister growling and mountain lion sounds but doing so VERY slow and somewhat muffled. Basically just trying to make the elk nervous so they would just have to move from their hiding spots. Well, as I'm making this slow movement through the ravine, in just a matter of about 3 seconds, I hear what I swear were 5 bull elk that simultaneously raked their antlers on a branch. I was in the bottom of the ravine, and they were evenly spread on all sides around me. I really don't think they were bigfoot because I could hear the slight resonance of their antlers too. I've seen some uncanny smart behavior from elk, but what was that about? Letting me know that they 'united', will make shish kebab out of me and toss me around like a rag doll? lol Or just them giving one another their locations? If so, since when have elk cared? You could hear that they were big bulls too based on the raking of multiple tines. You know what I mean.

I tried approaching one of the rakings but there was so much fresh elk sign around and it was so thick, I couldn't locate an animal. So go figure, elk may communicate other then their vocalizations. And was that considered a more sophisticated form of 'tool use'?

There must have also been a banshee in that hole too. For the second time in the many years I've hunted in there, I had a large 4' + diameter tree fall right after I passed it. I'm talking being only 30' past it. It's not like I touched it. lol Talk about some weird stuff. When you first hear the creaking begin, you can't quite tell where its coming from but desperately looking just in case its aimed at you. Luckily neither have been in my direction. So those are just some weird events that I keep in the back of my mind to always be alert.

Edited November 25, 2010 by PragmaticTheorist

[Huntster]

I used to live very close to this area. Our community was surrounded on three sides by the Sequoia National Park.

And I also do a lot of camping just outside of Yosemite....the hippies are gone now.

Yeah, most of them finally learned what a shower was for, grew up, and utilized their basket weaving college degrees (earned while trying to avoid military service) by moving into our political and corporate board rooms and dirtying them up with their ridiculous ideology.

IOW, they transformed from hippies into yuppies.............

Edited November 25, 2010 by Huntster

[Huntster]

Bears pop their teeth when nervous, upset, or excited. Do you thing rock clacking, wood knocking, and the chatter was a nervous reaction to your presence?

Not a chance on the nervous reaction aspect. Heck, you can communicate back and forth with them with the clacking & wood knocking. It's a very deliberate action on their part. I just wish we could figure out the whole knocking language. The only commonality that many people seem to pick up is that 3 knocks has something to do with meaning 'human!'. This may have been confirmed for me as well a few times, once more so then others as I was approaching a backup Winter site in the lightest quietest 8" of powder snow ever idling in my vehicle with my window open. And I heard it just as I arrived. Three clean loud wood knocks. I'll bet there have been dozens of others like that I didn't hear when I approached on the noisy aggregate logging roads.

I can't remember the pattern of knocking I heard on the Huslia River. I wish I had been paying more attention. I just remember it as strange for a moose. At the time another huge moose was up on the side of Billy Hawk Hill that my brother and brother-in-law were calling at. That one eventually came out into the open and my brother shot it at about 300 yards. It turned out to be the largest moose our various parties had ever taken out of the region; a 67" wide rack. So, with the continual wolf howling (itself a rather strange event), there was a lot going on..........

I heard what may have been wood knocking on the Huslia River in 2001, but at the time I thought it was a bull moose popping his antler on a tree. I'd never heard a moose do that before. Usually they rake the tree, not "smack" it repeatedly with one antler. Simultaneously, a pack of wolves were just howling away near the top of Billy Hawk Hill. Those wolves never did shut up. We downed a huge bull moose, and opened it's gut before it got dark, but had to leave it there until morning. I was worried that the wolves would get into it, but they didn't. We got there at dawn (cause the birds damned sure would get into it) and found it the way we left it, but the wolves were still howling.

Could be you did hear knocking?! At least nowadays you know what to listen for.

Indeed. I'll be paying attention to such sounds in the future.

An Alaskan report that I found very credible was the Eric Muench nest find on Prince of Wales Island, and as he was at the site pondering the nest, he claimed to hear wood knocking.

Have you ever tried just wandering up toward the source of the sound?

Get this, about 4 years ago I was in 'The Hole' where I elk hunt. Every hunt area has one. I was actually trying to push some animals out towards my partner that year. I was making sinister growling and mountain lion sounds but doing so VERY slow and somewhat muffled. Basically just trying to make the elk nervous so they would just have to move from their hiding spots. Well, as I'm making this slow movement through the ravine, in just a matter of about 3 seconds, I hear what I swear were 5 bull elk that simultaneously raked their antlers on a branch. I was in the bottom of the ravine, and they were evenly spread on all sides around me. I really don't think they were bigfoot because I could hear the slight resonance of their antlers too. I've seen some uncanny smart behavior from elk, but what was that about? Letting me know that they 'united', will make shish kebab out of me and toss me around like a rag doll? lol Or just them giving one another their locations? If so, since when have elk cared? You could hear that they were big bulls too based on the raking of multiple tines. You know what I mean.

I have zero experience with elk, but lots with moose. I've never seen moose do this. Bulls can be extremely shy until the rut, then they fear nothing and will attack you just as aggressively as a mad bear. That is why, in most of the state, the rut is closed season (it is open to some folks in various parts of the state, usually just the local villagers in the most remote areas).

I tried approaching one of the rakings but there was so much fresh elk sign around and it was so thick, I couldn't locate an animal. So go figure, elk may communicate other then their vocalizations. And was that considered a more sophisticated form of 'tool use'?

Antlers are clearly weapons, which can be considered tools. And, clearly, raking trees communicates aggression (as well as scraping velvet off), so communicating danger might also be possible.

There must have also been a banshee in that hole too. For the second time in the many years I've hunted in there, I had a large 4' + diameter tree fall right after I passed it. I'm talking being only 30' past it. It's not like I touched it. lol Talk about some weird stuff. When you first hear the creaking begin, you can't quite tell where its coming from but desperately looking just in case its aimed at you. Luckily neither have been in my direction. So those are just some weird events that I keep in the back of my mind to always be alert.

I came upon an ancient Native Alaskan village that I read about years later while snowmobiling. Under the snow, I didn't realize where I was, but I had a very strange feeling come over me as I worked on my machine (the engine simply died there; fuel pickup tube in the fuel tank came off). I actually looked around at the site while the feeling came over me. It was a lagoon off of one of the largest lakes in Southcentral Alaska, and very remote. Years later, while reading of the Lieutenant Castner expedition up the Matanuska River and over Tahneta Pass (1898; the first recorded white man to do so), I realized that was where the Ahtna warrior they met took them. I want to make my way to that lagoon in the summer or fall one year to see the ground without the snow.

[Guest]

Have you ever tried just wandering up toward the source of the sound?

Never walked toward the wood knocks but have with chattering. Now that is some strange sounding stuff. At least in a few instances I've had, picture a few coyotes or raccoons arguing with one another in a very structured tonal way. I mean you can make out the different individuals, you can hear frustration, points being made, anger, you know, inflection. But like I say, more like coyotes or raccoons. Then to have heard other's describe or even record such audio as coming from bigfoot in the past, well just provides corroboration for myself.

Anyway, it was with one of these chattering events that I got up the guts to walk towards it. It was at the same place where the snow was quiet when I drove in. There was snow on the ground then too, but when I reached the approximate location of the sounds, I found zero prints of anything, no coyotes, no raccoons, no bigfoot. So unfortunately nothing confirmed one way or the other. But ain't that just the nature of bigfoot! Must have been invisible at the time of the exchange. lol

Re the raking I heard, its not like it was a coincidence of elk raking at approx the same time. Each one immediately followed the previous rake, and there was no overlap. It was at a speed where I could just turn my head to follow each one as it occurred around me. That in itself was interesting. Each were also just ONE SINGLE rake, not like when such species move their head back and forth. More like offering a single signal to one another if you will. Of course its also possible that the bigfoot in the area carry elk antlers as their method of defense/weaponry? They'd be very effective weapons and there are plenty of antlers to be found for them. As previously mentioned, I have seen one Sas here and have had two other non-visual encounters in the same area. Guess I never really considered the possibility that they'd carry antlers. I have found what appeared to be clubs resting against a tree closer to home up in the mountains and wondered if they were stashed there, but another option was that the tree was going to be protected during adjacent logging while it was cabled, so the loggers had stickers ready to protect the bark. Problem with that was that they were on the wrong side of the tree and said tree wasn't used for that purpose. Another mystery... Still the raking was very strange I will admit.

[Huntster]

Never walked toward the wood knocks but have with chattering. Now that is some strange sounding stuff. At least in a few instances I've had, picture a few coyotes or raccoons arguing with one another in a very structured tonal way. I mean you can make out the different individuals, you can hear frustration, points being made, anger, you know, inflection. But like I say, more like coyotes or raccoons. Then to have heard other's describe or even record such audio as coming from bigfoot in the past, well just provides corroboration for myself.

I was impressed with the Sierra sounds recordings.

[Guest]

I can honestly say I just about ran out of faith regarding bigfoot. Didnt really care anymore for the longest time.

Just very recently something came up and reminded me of the subject. Doubt I will have a passion for the subject like I used too. Too many wasted hours in the field, listening to too many stories , reading too many reports. It just wore me out and pretty much assumed 99% of what I was hearing was pure BS.

Some might remember me from the old board from years ago. I guess I was always pretty skeptical.

[Guest Bigfoot Proof]

In my opinion the first and foremost mistake made is the assumption or belief this is some type of animal.

[Guest]

In my opinion the first and foremost mistake made is the assumption or belief this is some type of animal.

You think bigfoot is some type of plant?

[Huntster]

You think bigfoot is some type of plant?

Actually, I wouldn't be too surprised if a denialist actually proposed such a thing. We've already seen one wish that sasquatch was a marine mammal just so the current evidence could be "officially" discounted. We've also seen no shortage of real delusional believers discuss sasquatches being extraterrestrials.

Plants? Why not? What truly are the limits of human foolishness?

[Guest]

While my question was of course in jest, I did realize as I hit "post" that we've had multiple examples of people claiming tree stumps and leafy shadows as bigfoots in their blobsquatch photos, so we probably should include misidentified plants in our laundry list of things people can convince themselves are bigfoots.

[Huntster]

While my question was of course in jest, I did realize as I hit "post" that we've had multiple examples of people claiming tree stumps and leafy shadows as bigfoots in their blobsquatch photos, so we probably should include misidentified plants in our laundry list of things people can convince themselves are bigfoots.

Yeah, that happened to me once. I saw a sasquatch standing in the brush looking at me, so I plugged him with a .338 round - dead center of mass. He didn't move! I plugged him again.....and again........ He still didn't move.

So I moved in with my Kershaw switch blade, only to find it was a tree stump.

I shoulda' just started with the grenades.