Migration

[Guest tracker]

What's everyone opinion on this subject.

Sure we know they don't stick around after being sighted. But what about patterns of movement and survival instinct?

I believe they relocate to and from winter and summer denning areas or to seek safer locations after being discovered. Also to find other family units for bonding or for the young males and females to find mates. Then they either go off on their own or join one of the clans as a pair.

Not sure how organized this would be but tree knocking and certain types of screams is the key to them zeroing in on others units when they get close.

As far as pair bonding goes. There can't be much competition but if there were. Do you think the males would show off their strength in some kind of rut contest? tree breaking, roars, food providing ability?

Anyways from time to time we hear about more than usual aggressive encounters. Maybe some unfortunate hunter/hiker/fishermen have gotten too close to a den or a meeting place? It might explain the difference in behavior from passive to threatening until you leave the area. They follow you right back to your car shadowing you as you exit to make sure you leave.

I always think about finding a den location or getting too close to any young and shy females. They may be protected by aggressive males patrolling when entering undisturbed areas. Not that you could slip by them without them noticing and confronting you.

Hey you got to think of these things when cutting through a ravine with caves or cresting hill tops. I have surprized a few critters in my past that lead to me climbing trees or jumping off bluffs to get away. And not just the preds, buffalo, elk can make a mess of you in a hurry.

[Guest]

I think for something their size they would probably have to have a large territory. I think they migrate within that territory according to what is blooming and edible, what is quickly available in winter(primarily meat or human garbage). I think that territories overlap somewhat which would put different family groups together at certain times of the year and that may meet the need for finding a mate. As for mating and procreation, there is a lot of variation for social organization among primates. Assuming bigfoot is a primate, it would be hard to say for sure based on any kind of trend you might see in the sighting reports.

[Guest COGrizzly]

tracker - I would agree (if they exist, my confidence is waning bigtime) that they do migrate. They would almost have to. Here is a link from the BFRO. Scroll down after clicking on it. There is a map of Colorado with red and blue dots showing the seasonal sightings...seems to indicate migration correlating to the elk herds. Keith Foster did this work in 2001 and I dont think it has been updated on the BFRO since then.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=co

The other things you mention - pairing bonding, aggression, communicating...well, here is a sighting from near Walden Colorado (very remote) from way back.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5641

IF they exist, I believe they migrate...so they can eat. IF they exist, I believe they are omnivorous...but get their bulk food from PROTEIN, ie elk and deer. IF they exist, it's safe to assume they are curious, social, semi-intelligent, stealthy beyond our capabilities, etc etc. But I dont think they exist anymore. Maybe they did (well, they did =Gigantopithicus blacki) at some time in history.

[Guest Spazmo]

This is something I've looked into as well.

I used data for deer herds in California (migration patterns) and my own observations of when and where the deer were at specific times of the year. But because sightings in my area of research are sparse, even though there was a correlation, there was not enough data for me to make any kind of conclusion.

But I have always subscribed to the "follow the food" philosophy regarding increased probability of activity. As the weather cools and the snow levels drop, the deer move out of the mountains and onto the higher plains and down into the valleys (here in California). Based solely on my observations and my opinion, October seems to be a time of higher deer activity in my area, and would suggest higher BF activity if they do exist.

I have also become privy to some information that supports the theory, but it is still inconclusive. So I keep my eyes and ears open, especially at certain times of the year.

[Guest TooRisky]

Hmmm very interesting the defination of migration to each person.... To me I dont think they migrate, but like I said it could very well be my definition... Migration to me is the great herds moving accross the plains of the Serengeti or the great migrations of say the Caribou in Alaska... If a species stays in a area and moves up and down for food and shelter that is just simple survival like the Elk and Deer do, as the predators follow along also...

So in the end, really what constitutes a migration, and maybe we all get on the same page and find we agreed all along...

[Guest Lesmore]

Migration ?

If they exist, which is the 64 million dollar question, I would be further surprised if they migrate.

I think migration would significantly increase the chance of exposure to human observation.

Migration can be singly or in groups, but generally I think animals/birds etc....tend to migrate in groups.

Very large animals migrating in groups, even if small groups would again significantly increase the possibility of observation.

Given the fact that BF cannot fly under cover of darkness (night)....and must travel by foot...I think there would be areas along the migration route that wouldn't be able to provide enough cover (forests, etc.), to consistently 'hide' BF during it's migration.

Migration is often done to find food, warmer climes and this entails long distances...with short distance travel it's unlikely that there would be much change in food or weather to make it worth the creature's expenditure of energy.

I'm sure there's more......but in conclusion....I think it's unlikely that BF...even if it exists....would migrate.

Les

Edited December 3, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest TooRisky]

Hmmm it truly must be difficult to continue on without faith and have your faith waning in a subject sure as this... I have often thought of people in this position and what motivates them to continue, to spend time in the field and working really hard in all kinds of weather, and to take flack for their belief or lack of it in this case...

Then actually going into a discussion where you don't have faith the subject you are describing exists, heck how can one even debate something they don't believe in... wow...

well it is easy for me for I have seen them, know they exist and no they do not migrate, but do follow herds in their fairly large gathering / hunting area...

Or I am full of it...

Edited December 3, 2010 by TooRisky

[Guest tracker]

A creature of their reported size would be forced to constantly move because they would exhaust the resources in their area. Plus the human factor or if they have trouble with the local pack of timber wolves or something? However besides returning home in time for Christmas dinner to be with family, I believe they move about quite freqently in small groups as well as solo. And that's when we do get reports of them crossing roads, fields etc. Or hear call responses from different locations near by but only one is seen.

Hey I know seeing is believing but were not all BS'ing about our experiences with the big smelly buggers.

[Guest Lesmore]

A creature of their reported size would be forced to constantly move because they would exhaust the resources in their area. Plus the human factor or if they have trouble with the local pack of timber wolves or something? However besides returning home in time for Christmas dinner to be with family, I believe they move about quite freqently in small groups as well as solo. And that's when we do get reports of them crossing roads, fields etc. Or hear call responses from different locations near by but only one is seen.

Hey I know seeing is believing but were not all BS'ing about our experiences with the big smelly buggers.

When you talk about migrating...do you mean they eat and exhaust, the resources in one area and then move to another area, that is close by to start the cycle once again ?

Edited December 3, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest Spazmo]

I can see the issue with what we are calling "migration".

In my context, I would say that hey follow other migrations of their food source. But in other areas of the continent, their food source may not migrate at all, and in this case I doubt the BF do either.

That's why I like the phrase "follow the food". In the California Sierras, the mule deer migrate. Not far, mind you. Only down from higher elevations. So there is no massive movement of the food source or the predator. But these movements do cover hundreds of miles in some cases. I think it would also be safe to say that a smart predator would not necessarily need to follow the prey completely. They may also know when and where the prey animals will travel, and may simply get there first and await ambush opportunities. As those opportunities diminish, they may then follow as far as is safe or necessary, or they may turn to other food sources. If this movement is to warmer climes, then it is also possible that once there, there are other food sources to keep them fed during the winter. And afterwards they may return to locations where they know the prey will travel on their way back up to higher elevations.

I guess what I am saying is that I would expect them to go wherever there is sufficient food. In some parts of the continent, this could mean never moving at all. In others, it could mean traveling hundreds of miles. I do not think it is as simple as "they do or they don't".

[Guest COGrizzly]

Spazmo - Bingo! Here's that map. They don't migrate, they tend to follow the migration patterns.

TooRisky - I did see some 19 inch tracks in 2004. I really got into it and followed everything. I am still mildly intrigued by it because its possible.

[Guest tracker]

Yea I am not sure that migration is the best word either? I wasn't sure how to describe their movements from what I've seen and mapped. They stay a little while in area then move on even when there's still food resources left. They just casually keep grazzing further away from a den and then make a new den. They remind me of moose sort of with out the den part. Sometimes they return to the same area the next season or after a few.

Some may say, tracker what the heck are you talking about? there's no such thing etc etc, blaa, blaa. So why talk about stuff like migration? I usually mention that many reports are never made public, Some people want to keep their privacy but need some answers or help dealing with a snoopy Sasq around cabins and hunting camps.

Not all of us are in it for the $ or the fame. In fact i get some great tips and info sent to me because I am discrete. Anyways there's some logic to their movements, so I started this thread.

[Guest Lesmore]

Hmmm it truly must be difficult to continue on without faith and have your faith waning in a subject sure as this... I have often thought of people in this position and what motivates them to continue, to spend time in the field and working really hard in all kinds of weather, and to take flack for their belief or lack of it in this case...

Then actually going into a discussion where you don't have faith the subject you are describing exists, heck how can one even debate something they don't believe in... wow...Good observation about the dilemma those who find their faith waning...if so, how can they continue to debate.

In my case and I suspect in some other's ....the fact that I look for solid proof, evidence, something concrete to convince me...wholly...that BF exists...is only because after 40 odd years and nothing substantial, in my view coming to the surface...well...it caused absolute faith, that BF exists to wane...somewhat.

But....having said that....I have not closed the door completely, on BF. I still hope that something develops, that concrete evidence finally appears.

I never say never.....because in the end, I just don't know. Given this inability to colour the BF issue as a black / white question....I find that this lingering doubt about the existence...still allows me to keep a 'somewhat' open mind and one who is certainly more than ready to entertain any new information that appears.

well it is easy for me for I have seen them, know they exist and no they do not migrate, but do follow herds in their fairly large gathering / hunting area...

Or I am full of it...

I don't think your full of it. It's hard to question another, in terms of what they have seen or felt they have seen and I have not.

I wasn't there.

I didn't observe.

I don't know.

I can and do question things such as what were the conditions, the lighting, the forest shadows, amount of forest cover, etc.

But then I would hope that those who believe they saw BF...question themselves using the same critical analysis.

[Guest Spazmo]

Spazmo - Bingo! Here's that map. They don't migrate, they tend to follow the migration patterns.

TooRisky - I did see some 19 inch tracks in 2004. I really got into it and followed everything. I am still mildly intrigued by it because its possible.

Bingo is right COG! Your map is far more comprehensive than any I had ever put together.

And "mildly intrigued"? You can admit it, you're massively intrigued! HAHA! I'm just messin' with ya...

Tracker, this is the kind of discussion I hope there is much more of on this forum. These correlations are important. If these creatures exist, then this kind of information will certainly help increase the odds of studying them. And these correlations are also interesting in that they lend credence towards legitimacy. IMO, it would take a concerted effort of hoaxers to manipulate the data to correspond to seasonal sightings. Plus, this kind of discussion is immune to the "show me the monkey" argument. It's simply data analysis and hypothesis in an effort to better understand.

However, I am willing to admit that the correlations could be a product of where humans are likely to be at those times of year. This could point towards a real animal, or a slew of misidentifications and hoaxes. But I think the mis-ID's and hoaxes are more far-fetched as a theory than people actually seeing something walking on two feet.

I also looked into a database made by a member of another forum. He put together many sightings in spreadsheet format, and one thing that jumped out at me was that there are differentiations in predominant color in different regions. Again, to me this lends a hand to a legitimate animal because the alternative would have to involve an awful lot of fabricated reports made by the same person or group of people working together.

So, looking at this from an objective perspective, we can say that there is definitely something worth looking into regarding the seasonal sightings that are happening in areas that appear to follow the same migratory paths as prey animals. We can't say it's proof of Bigfoot, but that's not what we're after in this thread, right?

GOOD WORK EVERYBODY! Let's keep this going and see if we can make some more correlations that will help us next season.

This is a nice, positive thread about research techniques, and I'm enjoying it immensely.

S.

[TKD]

To give an idea of the home range they may need I would go with the wolverine:

The density of wolverines ranges from one individual per 40 km2 to one per 800 km2

Wolverine