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Migration


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Guest COGrizzly

Just want to clarify - I did not create that map - Keith Foster did in 2001 and has not been updated since.

CDOT started putting up these 8 foot tall fences in the 1980's to TRY and keep the elk away from the Interstate (I-70 in Colorado). Some elk ended up starving, just standing behind the fence not knowing what to do. Their migration corridor had been disrupted. Now that fence system is almost complete. You know what they are proposing now? These huge bridges across I-70 that mimic the natural landscape. Wish I could send a link from the Vail Daily.

I would venture a guess that any CDOW officer would define/classify the elk in Colorado as migrating ungulates.

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Just want to clarify - I did not create that map - Keith Foster did in 2001 and has not been updated since.

CDOT started putting up these 8 foot tall fences in the 1980's to TRY and keep the elk away from the Interstate (I-70 in Colorado). Some elk ended up starving, just standing behind the fence not knowing what to do. Their migration corridor had been disrupted. Now that fence system is almost complete. You know what they are proposing now? These huge bridges across I-70 that mimic the natural landscape. Wish I could send a link from the Vail Daily.

I would venture a guess that any CDOW officer would define/classify the elk in Colorado as migrating ungulates.

Are the bridges for the elk or for human traffic? I'm trying to visualize a natural looking rock bridge going over a highway for the elk.... It seems like it would make more sense just to elevate the interstate about 12 feet off the ground in certain sections so the elk could go under.

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Guest TooRisky

I am coming to the realization that the word "Migration" has a very broad definition and scope...

COGriz the Canadian Govt. has tried the same thing but with under the highway corridors... which sounded good on paper and seemed to solve the problem... That is till they saw dramatic drops in herds and figured out that all they made was easy kill routes for the predators by funneling the herds through choke points...

There is no easy fix for this problem but is is costing a lot of money, lives, and is hurting the natural environment of the migrating herds...

2R

PS: Did ya know here in WA. on a river that goes through my research area, the Fish and Game guys/gals have to capture the spawning Salmon, truck them around a Dam and re-introduce them up-stream to continue their spawn... Man has really dropped the ball when it comes to thinking about that world around us and the creatures that inhabit it...

Edited by TooRisky
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Hey TR, that very thing was on some show earlier this past week. I was amazed. Just another example of man's humongous need to control his environment, at the expense of everything else around him.-Knuck

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TR & everyone.. Q for you. How long do you think it would take a BF to cover ground if it was determined to hypothetically lets say.. go from a foraging and hunting area to a wintering area ? Let us just for a moment pull out a number like 100 miles. And time to go.. how long from what you know, would you reasonably expect them to cover ground and get from point a to b (100 mi or thereabouts for an idea of what they are capable of..providing they really exist of course :) ). I am not suggesting it is typical, as I certainly do not know. With their alledged and seemingly apparent physical capabilities, I wonder, especially if they had significant access to cover and a wilderness area(wide expanse with little to no human interference).. how fast they could do it. Gradual movement or you think ..whoops.. weather conditions .. time to go. (In other words variable depending on particular circumstances.. season..environmental factors..etc. Appreciate any comments.

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TR & everyone.. Q for you. How long do you think it would take a BF to cover ground if it was determined to hypothetically lets say.. go from a foraging and hunting area to a wintering area ? Let us just for a moment pull out a number like 100 miles. And time to go.. how long from what you know, would you reasonably expect them to cover ground and get from point a to b (100 mi or thereabouts for an idea of what they are capable of..providing they really exist of course :) ). I am not suggesting it is typical, as I certainly do not know. With their alledged and seemingly apparent physical capabilities, I wonder, especially if they had significant access to cover and a wilderness area(wide expanse with little to no human interference).. how fast they could do it. Gradual movement or you think ..whoops.. weather conditions .. time to go. (In other words variable depending on particular circumstances.. season..environmental factors..etc. Appreciate any comments.

Treeknocker, IMO, I speculate, since average human walking pace is approx. 3-4 mph, that Sas's would be 10-12 mph. Depending on obstacles such as major highways, rivers,etc. and time spent foraging for groceries and sleep during the trip, that it would take approx. 4 days to a week for a sas or group of sas to do 100 miles. Nothing scientific, just my opinion, however unpopular that may be.-Knuck

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I had given it some thought before. I figured that man could walk about 20 miles in a day at a leisurely pace if they used the highway. The pioneers covered on average about 12 miles in a day, multiply that figure by 3 since bigfoot's stride is about 3 X greater than the average man and you come up with 35-40 miles in a day. I think it would be a little less than 4 days based on that scenario. If he was in a hurry and trotting, probably faster than that.

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Guest tracker

I am sure they would slow down during the day to eat, rest or be more cautious. But think of how much ground they could cover in the late fall/winter months with the extended night hours. After a few days with extended night marches they could be anywhere and easily cross into another clans territory or state.

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Guest tracker

Speed comparison, you can't use a humans footspeed were too slow.

The best way to compare their speed is to use an Elk's trot and sprint speed in the bush or over rough terrain. They barely slow down even while cresting a steep ridge or threw thick bush. We can't even sprint to keep up to them walking in those conditions let alone their faster paced walk or run. So maybe use what a horse could cover in a day on a trail at trot speed. 50-70 miles unsure?

Hey anyone ever try to catch or keep up with an Elk on horseback? it's impossible. dry.gif

Edited by tracker
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Guest uprightchimp

well, I'd say that 100 miles is really "no sweat" for bigfoot since I do live down on southern calif, there havebeen sightings up in the Bigbear area in the San bernardino Mountains I would figure that bigfoot will travel x amount of miles during the night (mostly) & @ the speed that they can travel, well it could take only a couple of days-just short of a week let's say for BF to get from Mamouth mountains to down here. :)

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Guest tracker

When ever there's reports 50-100 mi apart, I usually consider its the same snoopy BF. Walking a 50 miles in a night would be no big effort for them. They are very strong, they wouldn't get tired and they are not hindered by weather or terrain. They could sack out under some trees or scrub and all you would see is the usual dark area beneath.

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Ok, well i've done some Homework & have found something interesting, i think, maybe..

Just to add to the Map, here is some info on the Cluster of Sightings at the central/bottom portion of the Map & the area where the Cluster is of Sightings between May to September.

The elevation is around the 11,500ft – 12,000ft level.

Bear in mind the Map is updated last in 2001 so we could add some more of the below to it.

Deputy Sheriff in June in 2009 - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=27057

A Hunter in September 2005 - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=19804

Hikers in July 1997 - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=1352

Report submitted by Keith Foster in June - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=1351

More Keith Foster in August - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=1350

I believe the above 2 Reports would make up the cluster of Sightings that we see on the Map in the area we’re looking at, or at least a biggish part of it. Mangani’s Google Earth Programme only shows individual BFRO Reports even if they consist of multiple Encounters within, like Keith’s do in the above 2 Reports.

Fisherman in June 2008 - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=24068

Bowhunter in September 2001 - http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=23065

So that’s :

June = 3, July = 1, August = 1, September = 2 for that Cluster & 4 of which from the 7 Sightings could be added to the Map within the same Time Frame of the Cluster too.

I can’t seem to find any public Reports on the area of Winter ( October to April ) Sightings & the Cluster a little to the South East of the Summer Cluster that we just read about, & on the CO/NM Border that we can see on the Map.

Then there’s the Cluster in & around Colorado Springs.

This is the good bit ..;)

This is just weird initially as there doesn’t seem to be anything for nearly 10 Years now since the Map was last updated & the Cluster was allowed to form prior to that, except for not really the greatest Sighting Report I’ve ever read, from OB.com, that is prime candidate for a fabricated Story in my opinion.

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=01498

Colorado Springs before 2000 - Colorado Springs between 2000 - 2010

post-136-006645500 1291815354_thumb.jpg post-136-098672700 1291815384_thumb.jpg

So maybe we should look at an area that would see possibly more Reports between 2000 & the present day, if there is/was one ??

Well there is a pattern of movement, clearly..

When i looked carefully I could see a route that headed West from Colorado Springs in 2000, just 1 Year prior to the last updating of the Map, that seems to suggest that “ boom “ in a Triangle area in Lake, Pitkin & Eagle Counties & an area that prior to 2000, Sightings that were publically Reported were down something like 80% compared to between 2000 & the present day..

Triangle before 2000 - Triangle between 2000 - 2010

post-136-098487800 1291815467_thumb.jpg post-136-098420400 1291815496_thumb.jpg

The “ route “ even had Reports within it’s area, in virtually a straight line & within the time frame we’re talking about & guess what the Reports were ?? They were Vocalizations with the last one being people being spooked out of an area and Vocalizations too..

post-136-036483900 1291815578_thumb.jpg

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=2493 – May 2000 was the furthest East, 20 Miles or so outside of Colorado Springs.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=1237 – September 2000 was the second furthest East 5 Miles or so from the previous one

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=3112 – October on the edge of the Triangle, 40 Miles or so on from the previous Report.

Of course we could say that there would bound to be less Sightings from prior to 2000 due to lack of Internet etc, or alternatively we could assume that there was a possible movement of Animals between the Colorado Springs area & the Triangle Area within Lake, Pitkin & Eagle Counties, an area where the Sighting Reports have gone up between 80% - 90% from 2000 – Present day.

& the distance ?? Approximately 100 Miles, as the Crow flies AND ALL THREE REPORTS are, as the Crow Flies, right on top of the South Platte River, which runs right up to the location of the Final Report above…;)

I guess that wouldn’t be classed as Migration in the very sense of the word but it’s interesting if nothing else & why would it not be classed as a pattern of movement, like the OP was looking for ??

100 Miles for an Animal of this size could be a Clan’s ( or whatever the word is for a group of them ) Home Range & isn’t very far at all, but we simply don’t know, we can only summise..

It could be a number of things, a new Leader wanting a new Territory or Home Base, the Animal’s being spooked enough by something to relocate over a hundred Miles away, the growth of Colorado Springs as a Town/City, it could be anything..

But it does honestly look to me to be a movement of Animals though,, from one area to another & given the figures, i think that's what it could be..

& i'm not talking about the same Animal's either, i'm talking about a Group of Animal's, a Clan, a Gang, a Pod whatever you want to call it & it would make sense for them to travel, as they look to me, like they did do along the River who knows how many times over 5 Months..

But maybe i'm reading too much into it, then again i might not be.. B)

Edited by BobbyO
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Nice work Bobby!

Ok, for the sake of this discussion let's assume your pattern is correct. Now we may be able to correlate it to other environmental factors.

You've already mentioned the possible growth of Colorado Springs as a motivating factor for the movement, and that sounds good. But let's take it a step or two further:

What are the prey animals doing in these periods of time? If there is a significant sized herd of deer or elk that favors the area, then there will certainly be USFW census data on them, along with their seasonal movements over time. If this population of prey has grown or diminished in the time period you are using, it might correspond to the number and location of sightings. Could the development of Colorado Springs have interfered in some way with these prey animals, and if so, could that also effect the number of BF sightings reported? I have a hunch there will be a direct correlation if we can find all of the necessary data.

One other thing to consider: the seasonal differences in sighting numbers and location may also be a product of where people are likely to be at certain times of the year. This is much more prevalent, for example, in my area where there is little or no human activity in winter (too much snow, and the nearest ski area is an hour away). But in Colorado Springs, this might not be as much of a factor because of a lively winter recreation industry. The local board of tourism would be able to tell you if there is a significant increase or decrease in transient populations at certain times of the year. (by "transient", I mean folks who are vacationing, not bums! :lol:)

Once these factors are taken into consideration, a possible pattern can be established. If a pattern becomes apparent, then you've just given any local researchers a great head start on where to be, and when. And we keep coming back to the "river as a highway" theory, which IMO has plenty of merit.

I've identified similar patterns in my area, but unfortunately there isn't enough data to be reliable. The number of sightings is so low that any pattern could easily be simple coincidence. But on the plus side, I've got a LOT of data on the local prey animals. And so far, the sightings follow the food.

Bobby, please allow me this brief moment of conceit when I say, "great minds think alike"...:lol:

And if you get more info and crunch more numbers, I'll be looking forward to seeing what you came up with.

Thanks!

S.

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