Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 OP, am I correct when I take the intent of this topic was: If BF is misidentification, and the real culprits are bears...how come when people who have fired shots, there aren't any bear corpses recovered? For instance, the family in NJ who were terrorized by something for a few weeks. The third day the entire family were armed with everything from rifles to shotguns and let off at least 30 shots at the intruder...if it was a bear...where was the body? Yes, thats right. If they shoot at anything usually there should be a body, blood-trail, or something. Specially as in such reports mostly multiple shots are fired at short range. But as it turned out there arent even much stories about just thinking of seeing a BF and than it turned out to be something else. Skeptics tell stories of friends faking footprints and so on, but nobody comes with the argument I also thought that I see one but than .... Why not if BF is misidentification. Its the same with class B stuff. If its just misidentification, why nobody knows the animal that makes that sound. Why nobody has a clue what might "wood-knock" and so on.
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Yes, as the amount of crossings increase, there is eventually going to be an incident. Let's examine a few that might occur to a Bigfoot: 1. Bigfoot is chasing a deer, it runs across a two lane highway, Bigfoot thinks he can easily cross before the oncoming Petrbilt, he continues his pursuit, and as he starts crossing, he trips, the Petrbilt is close now, and plows into the Bigfoot as he gets up. 2. An old Bigfoot is running across the road, he has a coronary and is unable to move out of the way of the oncoming Freightliner. 3. A Bigfoot tries to cross a two-lane highway, it is icy out, the Bigfoot slips as it is crossing the road and hit's his head on the fall, the oncoming Mack cannot stop and runs over the stricken beast. 4. Same scenario, the bigfoot waits on the side of the road for the truck to pass, however the truck slips off the side of the road, and plows into the hidden bigfoot. 5. The bigfoot is just not paying attention, and walks infront of an oncoming vehicle. Any of these can happen to us, why doesn't it ever happen to a Bigfoot? All the scenarios you present are good! The objection I take with them is that those things happen to us people because we are physically domesticated. Can you imagine any of that happening to a U.S. Army Special Forces soldier? I've been on FTX's as a soldier where there were roads intersecting our patrol or recon areas and....I can't imagine one of us getting ran over! Really, not to offend anyone, but I can't understand how any able bodied person gets ran over. I've been crossing highways since I was 4 years old (without moms permission and got a whippin for it). Also I attribute most animals getting ran over to not understanding vehicles, they often freeze in the middle of the road and become an easy target.
norseman Posted June 21, 2011 Admin Posted June 21, 2011 I know they are rare, and my point is, even if Bigfoot is as rare as a lower 48 Grizzly bear, the lower 48 grizzly bears have accidents, and get hit by cars. It's kinda hard to "smell" a car traveling 65 mph (Grizzlies have a insane sense of smell and poor vision) compared to that of a great ape with trichromatic vision (if they do indeed fall within the higher primate order). I understand your logic Drew I do, but there are some differences between Grizzlies and this proposed species that isn't just knee jerk excuses. And people do see them on roads and freeways occasionally. In fact one account in Yakima had one stranded in the divider of a freeway freaking out. The Washington State Patrol got a bunch of phone calls over it. Who knows, maybe one day what your proposing WILL happen. The problem is.......there isn't that many large 6-8 lane freeways in the Pacific NW.
Drew Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Even if one got shot years ago, you could theoretically take a cadaver dog to the spot and still locate the body.
norseman Posted June 21, 2011 Admin Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Even if one got shot years ago, you could theoretically take a cadaver dog to the spot and still locate the body. Or parts of it maybe, depending on how bad the varmints made a mess of things. The problem is? Finding somebody to guide you to the approximate location. Some Yahoos cannot find their elk they shot ever again......."All these trees look the **** same! I swear!" If I shoot one, some part of it is coming out with me, come hell or high water. Momma Squatch can just fight me for it...... Edited June 21, 2011 by norseman
Guest Lesmore Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 In the right conditions of light, brush cover, distance...a bear standing up on two feet...coupled with possible anxiety and big excitement from an observer....yes I can see mis-identification. I've spent many a time...since the '50's in Boreal Forests...Canadian Shield....saw a few things that I was convinced were something else and in some cases have had the opportunity to get a second...good...look. Yes my first view was mis-identification on my part, due to many of the conditions I've mentioned. I think that some who dismiss the possibility of mis-identification in the bush may not have had a lot of experience in thick forested areas. I'm not saying all BF sightings are due to mis-identification...I don't know that to be a fact and no one else does either for that matter.
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 In the lower 48 it's pretty **** rare. . . . And if you compare the grizzly distribution in the Lower 48 to the suspected bigfoot distribution . . .
norseman Posted June 21, 2011 Admin Posted June 21, 2011 . . . And if you compare the grizzly distribution in the Lower 48 to the suspected bigfoot distribution . . . Define "suspected bigfoot distribution". We have everything from 500 animals to basically every suburban American having one live in their back yard out of the garbage cans.
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Can you imagine any of that happening to a U.S. Army Special Forces soldier? Can you imagine a toddler having the capabilities of a U.S. Special Forces soldier? How about an 80 year old woman? There's a reason we sent a team after Bin Laden that didn't include anyone under 15 or over 70. It didn't include anyone with a chronic illness, parasite infestation, or life-threatening injury. It didn't include anyone with a developmental disability, etc. Bigfoot lacks the "luxury" of the Special Forces to hand-pick and rigorously train a tiny percentage of the most gifted people in the population to operate at their physical peak performance for a certain period of time.
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Define "suspected bigfoot distribution". Even if you restrict attention to the western U.S. (ignoring all the eastern bigfoot reports), bigfoot enjoys a far larger distribution than grizzly bear. As grizzlies are the standard bearer for a low-density population with enormous home ranges, it is logical to conclude that the much wider distribution of bigfoot translates into a larger population in the Lower 48 than that of grizzly bear. Also, bigfoot distribution includes areas with much higher road densities and human populations than habitats that support grizzlies. Thus, road-killed bigfoots should be more common than road-killed grizzlies. Lozier et al 2009.pdf
georgerm Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Even if you restrict attention to the western U.S. (ignoring all the eastern bigfoot reports), bigfoot enjoys a far larger distribution than grizzly bear. As grizzlies are the standard bearer for a low-density population with enormous home ranges, it is logical to conclude that the much wider distribution of bigfoot translates into a larger population in the Lower 48 than that of grizzly bear. Also, bigfoot distribution includes areas with much higher road densities and human populations than habitats that support grizzlies. Thus, road-killed bigfoots should be more common than road-killed grizzlies. We seem to be drifting around and off to nowhere. I've lived in Oregon for more than 60 years and have never seen a road killed bear. I've seen 100's of road killed deer. In fact, I've only seen 1 bear run across the road. So are bears more understanding of how to cross roads than deer? Are BFs more rare than bears? Are BFs smarter than bears and understand traffic can hurt if you run into the lights? Are BFs just really rare, and take chances on night roads like deer? By the way, I've read a few reports of BFs being injured on roads. One BF was hit by a train and some farmer kept it in a barn until it was better around Powers, Oregon. A BF was hit and was on the side of the road by Portland, Oregon. So it does happen, so keep your eye on road kills. You might just find the holy grail in a ditch. Just imagine packing a dead road killed BF into the car with the wife and kids on a summer trip. Just explain its worth a fortune, and we will take an ocean cruise when we get home with this stinky beast! It might be better to wrap it in plastic and tie it to the top of the car. Travel prepared! Edited June 21, 2011 by georgerm
Guest Binky Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 Can you imagine a toddler having the capabilities of a U.S. Special Forces soldier? How about an 80 year old woman? There's a reason we sent a team after Bin Laden that didn't include anyone under 15 or over 70. It didn't include anyone with a chronic illness, parasite infestation, or life-threatening injury. It didn't include anyone with a developmental disability, etc. Bigfoot lacks the "luxury" of the Special Forces to hand-pick and rigorously train a tiny percentage of the most gifted people in the population to operate at their physical peak performance for a certain period of time. My older brother is a Para pathfinder, and I recently watched him trip over a pavement and drop his mobile - which he then stood on. Clumsy sod..
norseman Posted June 21, 2011 Admin Posted June 21, 2011 Even if you restrict attention to the western U.S. (ignoring all the eastern bigfoot reports), bigfoot enjoys a far larger distribution than grizzly bear. As grizzlies are the standard bearer for a low-density population with enormous home ranges, it is logical to conclude that the much wider distribution of bigfoot translates into a larger population in the Lower 48 than that of grizzly bear. I do not agree. Bipedalism is a more efficient means of propulsion and therefore we could reasonably expect Sasquatch to have even greater ranges than that of a Grizzly bear. On top of that, great apes are not known to hibernate unlike bears, and therefore Sasquatch could be forced to migrate great distances from the north in summer to south in winter. Also, bigfoot distribution includes areas with much higher road densities and human populations than habitats that support grizzlies. Thus, road-killed bigfoots should be more common than road-killed grizzlies. Except as I stated earlier, a stellar nose on the bear is not a good defense against something traveling 65 mph. But trichromatic vision is a great defense against having unpleasant collisions with brightly colored and lit automobiles. And of course there are stories of people hitting them and they run off, or having near misses. Or in the case of the one outside of Yakima caught in the median on I 82, a plethora of calls to the local Washington State Patrol office. I think your right, some day, some how it's going to happen if they are out there. But from my own personal experience? I've hit more deer than I can count, literally dozens over the course of my life time. I've never once hit a black bear, nor have I had a close call with one. And I've never even seen a Grizzly bear in the woods around my house despite them being there.....not ever. If they exist they must be very very rare IMHO.......
Guest Lesmore Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) We seem to be drifting around and off to nowhere. I've lived in Oregon for more than 60 years and have never seen a road killed bear. I've seen 100's of road killed deer. In fact, I've only seen 1 bear run across the road. So are bears more understanding of how to cross roads than deer? Are BFs more rare than bears? Are BFs smarter than bears and understand traffic can hurt if you run into the lights? Are BFs just really rare, and take chances on night roads like deer? I've also seen many, many road killed deer, one road killed Black Bear and never a road killed Timber Wolf. I live in an area not too far, from where there are very healthy populations of Black Bear, Wolves and Deer. IMO why one doesn't see road killed wolves or bears to any degree while a whole bunch of dead deer is due to: White Tailed Deer have tremendous numbers...while Bear and Wolves...relatively small numbers. Also the difference in the type of animal...predator vs prey....intelligence vs not so intelligent. I have seen many White Tailed deer look at me in my vehicle then in their game of chance...either leap in front of the vehicle....leap back into the bush...or just stand there....unable to make a decision. I saw one Timber (Gray) Wolf cross the highway....Trans Canada # 1 by the NW Ontario- Manitoba border....in Canadian Shield country. It was about 7-7:30 AM....I was the only vehicle on that part of the road. The Wolf came out of the bush...stopped by the side of the road....looked both ways...yes, looked both ways...saw my vehicle, which was proceeding slowly as I was watching the Wolf. The Wolf kept it's place, with part of it's body in the woods...the other part (head, etc.) on the grass verge. It's eyes locked onto my eye's and watched carefully as I slowly drove past. As soon as I was past a distance...it again looked both ways...ran across the road and melted into the thick forest. The difference between a Deer, a bear and a wolf. The bear and wolf are intelligent predators...they are always on the lookout for food...prey, like, for example a deer. A Deer's big defense against a predator like a Wolf or a Bear is generally flight...run like the dickens in hopes that it can put some space between it and the predator. While in the Scottish Highlands I noticed a similar difference between Border Collies and sheep, on roads. Sheep don't seem to have much of a clue....prey...they wander almost without discrimination on and off road. I've seen Border Collies..which if you go back far enough are descended from their fellow Canines...predators (Wolves) come onto roads to collect their charges...the sheep. The collies invariably stop...look at traffic and don't move till they see a break or traffic stopped...as they round up the sheep, out of danger's way. As far as BF being road kill....I have no answers...just theories. Edited June 21, 2011 by Lesmore
Guest Silver Fox Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 In the past couple years in Washington, two people have been shot, after being mistaken for bears. In both instances the people were wearing black clothing while in deep berry patches. Yes all hunters are told to be sure of their target before pulling the trigger, but sadly this isn't always the case. If someone shot a bear out of season, or without a tag, I'd bet they would just walk away to avoid the legal ramifications. What happens to someone who shoots a human out of season like this? What are the legal ramifications, if any?
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