Why No Dead Bears?

[Guest]

No matter how old or how sick? What about "Patty?" Why did she just saunter out into the open to be surprised by two guys on horseback who'd apparently been camping in the area for a couple of weeks? Why didn't she know they were there? Looked like her guard was down.

This super-stealthy bigfoot is stuff and nonsense, and is directly contradicted by some of the stuff people consider to be great evidence of bigfoot.

Of all the things attributed to BF, I'd think it would be a no-brainer that they, as any wild animal, make humans no matter how well trained appear clumsy in the woods.

As for Patty, perhaps she did know they were there and just didn't care. She could have guessed she'd be, as we said in the Army: I'm up, they see me, I'm gone.

[norseman]

Those animals don't typically show up in trailer parks, rest areas, driveways of semi-rural America, however I can find confirmation that all 4 have been killed by cars/trucks.

Well, how much credence do we put on downtown Seattle dumpster stories? Or backyard BBQ stories?

And taking it a step further, how many thousands or 10's of thousands of those creatures have been killed by hunters or trappers over the last 150 years?

Very true, I certainly smell what you are cooking. But we do have accounts of hunters shooting Squatches as well. We just don't have a taxidermy mount to point to.

So it doesn't exist until we drag a body in feet first, and I'm good with that.

[Guest]

You are ascribing superhuman powers to a beast that doesn't use tools or fire?

How can I be giving them super "human" powers when they aren't exactly humans? Does a cougar have super human powers to be as stealthy as it is?

[Guest]

The mythification of bigfoot continues.

Would not any predatory animal put a Beret too shame?

[Guest]

Perhaps this will give some insight as well:

A story I read where a (I believe) a policeman was the witness. Basically what happened is the BF used him speeding in his vehicle as a ritual or right of passage into adulthood.

The officer says he was patrolling and came upon two BF on the side of the road. One was 11ft tall and the other only 8ft. It gave him the impression that the smaller BF was a teenager. At any rate, being alarmed he tried to speed off and away from the BF. He says the BF proceeded to run besides his vehicle (which was going 40 mph) and then tapped it on its hood before stopping some 100 yards later.

Activity such as this would give me a very different view of how BF view cars.

[Guest]

Sas, how do Salmon find their way home to the very stream they were spawned in? How do Geese find their nesting grounds every year despite flying thousands and thousands of miles?

I know of no species* that migrates for which migration isn't the most risky behavior they engage in. One awesome paper from a few years back determined that, of the annual mortality incurred by Black-throated Blue Warblers, 85% of it happens on migration.

*I guess salmon are a good exception, in that they die en masse after completing their migration. In that case, I suppose we could consider spawning to be the most dangerous thing they do!

[Guest]

Activity such as this would give me a very different view of how BF view cars.

Really? I think it should give you a different view of police officers.

[norseman]

I know of no species* that migrates for which migration isn't the most risky behavior they engage in. One awesome paper from a few years back determined that, of the annual mortality incurred by Black-throated Blue Warblers, 85% of it happens on migration.

*I guess salmon are a good exception, in that they die en masse after completing their migration. In that case, I suppose we could consider spawning to be the most dangerous thing they do!

My issue wasn't that it was dangerous........only that they found each other again after swimming around a giant ocean for a few years.

[norseman]

Would not any predatory animal put a Beret too shame?

I've never understood this mindset. HUMANS ARE THE KING OF PREDATORY ANIMALS.

Our strength is akin to the wolf.........a single wolf is not very impressive, he isn't as strong as a bear, and he isn't as cunning as a cougar. But what he lacks he makes up for in the fact that he belongs to a pack and that pack coordinates it's efforts for a common goal.

Could you imagine a group of primitive human hunters hot on your trail? Our resume includes almost every single species on the planet has fallen prey to us at some point and time. From Walrus to Whale to Lions to Elephants, it doesn't matter. We are capable of hunting down and killing whatever our hearts desire. And I'm not talking about modern hunting or fishing practices, but primitive ones.

[Incorrigible1]

Perhaps this will give some insight as well:

A story I read........

::sighs::

[Guest]

I've never understood this mindset. HUMANS ARE THE KING OF PREDATORY ANIMALS.

Our strength is akin to the wolf.........a single wolf is not very impressive, he isn't as strong as a bear, and he isn't as cunning as a cougar. But what he lacks he makes up for in the fact that he belongs to a pack and that pack coordinates it's efforts for a common goal.

Could you imagine a group of primitive human hunters hot on your trail? Our resume includes almost every single species on the planet has fallen prey to us at some point and time. From Walrus to Whale to Lions to Elephants, it doesn't matter. We are capable of hunting down and killing whatever our hearts desire. And I'm not talking about modern hunting or fishing practices, but primitive ones.

We are the apex predator on this planet thanks to our use of tools and our intelligence. Our tools have evolved to where NO other animal can withstand them, while our intelligence enables us to even without tools, form packs and hunt nearly anything down.

However, without our tools, we would be at the bottom of the totem pole. Why do you think predatory animals such as lions, tigers, leopards, bears, etc., turn to predation on people when they are injured or become old? It's because we are such a easy prey. A lion with a bum leg and broken teeth will easily kill a person.

Heck, we have people who are killed by DOGS, much less wolves! While a bear isn't as strong as a bear or as stealthy as a puma, their physical attributes put ours to shame.

I'm coming from a strictly physical explanation of humans. From that perspective bears see us as little more than ballons with goodies inside. We spill most of our goodies with one good swipe or bite.

So if from a predatory point of view we are low on the pole, we are the absolute bottom when it comes to us being a prey item. Again, all of this is adverted because of our use of tools and organization. We can't run like deer, we can't fight like a wild cat, we can't even use our senses to keep us out of danger.

I've served with soldiers who while in the Central American jungle decided to tangle with something as simple as monkeys. This Ranger in our mighty armed force got a good thrashing from a 45lb monkey! Afterwards he talking bout, "Man, dude, monkeys are stronger than you think!" Wearing the hand print from a slap froma 45lb monkey LOL.

We must also remember that whatever killed most of the megafauna did us a huge favor. I remember a special where they were discussing prehistoric North American predators and they included the Short-faced Bear. Basically a bear on steroids who saw us as food! They said there wasn't anything we could do if one set its sights on us. The reenactment they used for these documentaries always showed a predator spotting prehistoric man, charging, prehistoric clan yelling and scrambling for cover while the unlucky person was taken off for dinner.

[norseman]

Really? I think it should give you a different view of police officers.

(Nobody told him he wasn't suppose to SMOKE the jelly donut!)

[norseman]

We are the apex predator on this planet thanks to our use of tools and our intelligence. Our tools have evolved to where NO other animal can withstand them, while our intelligence enables us to even without tools, form packs and hunt nearly anything down.

Yes but I'm talking about a group of Neanderthals or Cro Magnon 50,000 years ago. And not modern man.

However, without our tools, we would be at the bottom of the totem pole. Why do you think predatory animals such as lions, tigers, leopards, bears, etc., turn to predation on people when they are injured or become old? It's because we are such a easy prey. A lion with a bum leg and broken teeth will easily kill a person.

Without our tools we would be down on the totem pole, but we haven't been without our tools for roughly about 2 million years now. And again it's not just our tools it's our cooperation with others of our kind that really tips the scales in our favor. And while we can be singled out and killed by other predators, the score is still millions to one in our favor.

For example, Lions have been reduced to a fraction of their former range, and this has been going on long before the advent of gun powder. They come into conflict with humans either over resources or predation of our sick and old and pay the ultimate price for it. They are hunted down and exterminated.

Heck, we have people who are killed by DOGS, much less wolves! While a bear isn't as strong as a bear or as stealthy as a puma, their physical attributes put ours to shame.

Well, we are also not our Cro Magnon ancestors either.......most of us are ho ho eating couch potatoes, that have never been in a fist fight with a bully let alone a fight for our lives. If you think a "beret" would succumb to a dog attack, why don't you ask the Spetsnaz about their training?

I'm coming from a strictly physical explanation of humans. From that perspective bears see us as little more than ballons with goodies inside. We spill most of our goodies with one good swipe or bite.

Right I'm just pointing out what a narrow focus that is.......especially when your a bear surrounded by a large group of ballon goodies all sticking razor sharp obsidian spear points into your body while wearing the hides of your fallen brethren.

So if from a predatory point of view we are low on the pole, we are the absolute bottom when it comes to us being a prey item. Again, all of this is adverted because of our use of tools and organization. We can't run like deer, we can't fight like a wild cat, we can't even use our senses to keep us out of danger.

Horse manure. We can do all of those things.........we just choose not to as modern humans. In other words, our champion title has softened us at the top and made us lazy. As all animals are.......why fight like a wild cat and run like a deer when you can plant your butt on the couch and buy pre packaged highly fattening food.

I bet a modern human being transported back in time and getting to observe our ancestors would be a humbling experience. It truly was survival of the fittest.

I've served with soldiers who while in the Central American jungle decided to tangle with something as simple as monkeys. This Ranger in our mighty armed force got a good thrashing from a 45lb monkey! Afterwards he talking bout, "Man, dude, monkeys are stronger than you think!" Wearing the hand print from a slap froma 45lb monkey LOL.

And I concur that most animals are stronger than humans. But yanno, I can still wrestle a 500 lbs steer to the ground.

We must also remember that whatever killed most of the megafauna did us a huge favor.

Many theories state that WE killed the mega fauna........lol.

I remember a special where they were discussing prehistoric North American predators and they included the Short-faced Bear. Basically a bear on steroids who saw us as food! They said there wasn't anything we could do if one set its sights on us. The reenactment they used for these documentaries always showed a predator spotting prehistoric man, charging, prehistoric clan yelling and scrambling for cover while the unlucky person was taken off for dinner.

*sigh*

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100824082230.htm

According to the research study, published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution, radiocarbon dating of the fossil remains shows that the cave bear ceased to be abundant in Central Europe around 35,000 years ago.

"This can be attributed to increasing human expansion and the resulting competition between humans and bears for land and shelter," explains the scientist, who links this with the scarce fossil representation of the bear's prey in the abundant fossil record of this species.

I guess chalk another win up to the chewy balloon goody side?

[Guest]

We are the apex predator on this planet thanks to our use of tools and our intelligence.

Right, and that's what makes us human. It's irrelevant in these discussions to pit humans without our tools and intelligence against other animals. Of course we'd no longer be apex predators without those things. But the corollary would be to imagine a lion or bear (even the dreaded short-faced) robbed of its advantages of strength, teeth, and claws. We humans have successfully hunted anything and everything we've set our minds to, even with their full faculties. The fact that individual humans occasionally fall prey to other animals is also immaterial, no different than the odd lion that dies from an angry buffalo charge. It happens.

There are more than 6 billion of us. We are in charge (at least for as long as the bacteria and viruses allow).

[norseman]

Don't believe me? Let's let the buffalo decide.

http://www.royalalbertamuseum.ca/human/archaeo/aspects/buffalo.htm

Buffalo hunting techniques can be divided into two basic categories; stalking by a few individuals and communal hunting by large groups. Stalking required a careful approach from downwind to avoid being scented by the buffalo. In summer, a wolf skin might be worn as a disguise since the buffalo would allow wolves to approach closely; in winter, a white blanket hid the hunter as he stalked the herd. Animals trapped in deep snow were easily killed by hunters on snowshoes. All individual hunting, however, was forbidden during the communal hunt for fear of alarming the herds.

Communal hunting techniques include both ancient methods which did not require horses, and systems which arose after the Spanish brought horses to the New World. Most ancient methods required special topographic locales and were essentially immobile; the buffalo had to be driven the killing ground. In contrast, the mounted hunting techniques could generally be practiced whenever a buffalo herd was encountered. The two systems were somewhat incompatible; it has been suggested that the mounted techniques tended to disrupt the buffalo herds and thereby reduced the effectiveness of the older methods. Thus, the ancient communal hunting techniques survived primarily in regions where mounted techniques were less useful; that is, in wooded areas, in regions with severe winters, or where few horses were available. The Alberta plains were among the last to receive horses (around A.D. 1730) and ancient communal hunting techniques were still practised here when Euro-Canadians arrived.

Human? Run for the hills! Wolf? We will keep an eye on the situation....