Why No Dead Bears?

[Guest Silver Fox]

Yes, as the amount of crossings increase, there is eventually going to be an incident.

Let's examine a few that might occur to a Bigfoot:

1. Bigfoot is chasing a deer, it runs across a two lane highway, Bigfoot thinks he can easily cross before the oncoming Petrbilt, he continues his pursuit, and as he starts crossing, he trips, the Petrbilt is close now, and plows into the Bigfoot as he gets up.

2. An old Bigfoot is running across the road, he has a coronary and is unable to move out of the way of the oncoming Freightliner.

3. A Bigfoot tries to cross a two-lane highway, it is icy out, the Bigfoot slips as it is crossing the road and hit's his head on the fall, the oncoming Mack cannot stop and runs over the stricken beast.

4. Same scenario, the bigfoot waits on the side of the road for the truck to pass, however the truck slips off the side of the road, and plows into the hidden bigfoot.

5. The bigfoot is just not paying attention, and walks infront of an oncoming vehicle.

Any of these can happen to us, why doesn't it ever happen to a Bigfoot?

This is the same issue as why does no one ever shoot a BF? Why does no one ever hit one with a car? We have a number of reports over the years of BF's getting hit by cars. Usually they just bounce off and run away to apparently live some more, but sometimes they have been roadkilled. The cases reported on indicated that the scene was sealed off by authorities, and then the body disappeared. We have a report from an Ohio policeman who found a roadkilled BF, radioed it in, reinforcements showed up, then state police, scene was sealed off, then National Guard, finally an hour later, a black van comes, two military guys get out and haul the BF away in the van never to be seen again.

The reports are more common in recent years for whatever reasons. Two separate reports from I-80 in the Colombia River Gorge.

So it's perfectly possible that BF's do get roadkilled from time to time.

[Guest]

Can you imagine a toddler having the capabilities of a U.S. Special Forces soldier? How about an 80 year old woman? There's a reason we sent a team after Bin Laden that didn't include anyone under 15 or over 70. It didn't include anyone with a chronic illness, parasite infestation, or life-threatening injury. It didn't include anyone with a developmental disability, etc.

Bigfoot lacks the "luxury" of the Special Forces to hand-pick and rigorously train a tiny percentage of the most gifted people in the population to operate at their physical peak performance for a certain period of time.

But any BF would put our best Beret to shame...and that's any BF.

[Guest]

I've also seen many, many road killed deer, one road killed Black Bear and never a road killed Timber Wolf.

I live in an area not too far, from where there are very healthy populations of Black Bear, Wolves and Deer.

IMO why one doesn't see road killed wolves or bears to any degree while a whole bunch of dead deer is due to:

White Tailed Deer have tremendous numbers...while Bear and Wolves...relatively small numbers.

Also the difference in the type of animal...predator vs prey....intelligence vs not so intelligent.

I have seen many White Tailed deer look at me in my vehicle then in their game of chance...either leap in front of the vehicle....leap back into the bush...or just stand there....unable to make a decision.

I saw one Timber (Gray) Wolf cross the highway....Trans Canada # 1 by the NW Ontario- Manitoba border....in Canadian Shield country.

It was about 7-7:30 AM....I was the only vehicle on that part of the road.

The Wolf came out of the bush...stopped by the side of the road....looked both ways...yes, looked both ways...saw my vehicle, which was proceeding slowly as I was watching the Wolf.

The Wolf kept it's place, with part of it's body in the woods...the other part (head, etc.) on the grass verge. It's eyes locked onto my eye's and watched carefully as I slowly drove past.

As soon as I was past a distance...it again looked both ways...ran across the road and melted into the thick forest.

The difference between a Deer, a bear and a wolf.

The bear and wolf are intelligent predators...they are always on the lookout for food...prey, like, for example a deer.

A Deer's big defense against a predator like a Wolf or a Bear is generally flight...run like the dickens in hopes that it can put some space between it and the predator.

While in the Scottish Highlands I noticed a similar difference between Border Collies and sheep, on roads. Sheep don't seem to have much of a clue....prey...they wander almost without discrimination on and off road. I've seen Border Collies..which if you go back far enough are descended from their fellow Canines...predators (Wolves) come onto roads to collect their charges...the sheep.

The collies invariably stop...look at traffic and don't move till they see a break or traffic stopped...as they round up the sheep, out of danger's way.

As far as BF being road kill....I have no answers...just theories.

I have one I wouldn't believe if I didn't see with my own eyes: I live in a pretty big city. I watched a stray dog cross a 4 lane road using what appeared to be the crossing signals. It walked up to the crossing point and had a seat there patiently. The light changed, traffic was stopped and the dog crossed the road on cue.

[Guest]

But any BF would put our best Beret to shame...and that's any BF.

No matter how old or how sick? What about "Patty?" Why did she just saunter out into the open to be surprised by two guys on horseback who'd apparently been camping in the area for a couple of weeks? Why didn't she know they were there? Looked like her guard was down.

This super-stealthy bigfoot is stuff and nonsense, and is directly contradicted by some of the stuff people consider to be great evidence of bigfoot.

[Drew]

But any BF would put our best Beret to shame...and that's any BF.

You are ascribing superhuman powers to a beast that doesn't use tools or fire?

[Guest Woodenbong]

We don't have bears in Australia, so misidentifying is out of the question

[Guest]

I do not agree. Bipedalism is a more efficient means of propulsion and therefore we could reasonably expect Sasquatch to have even greater ranges than that of a Grizzly bear. On top of that, great apes are not known to hibernate unlike bears, and therefore Sasquatch could be forced to migrate great distances from the north in summer to south in winter.

OK, but how much greater? You reach a point at which density is too low and the likelihood of individuals finding each other with enough frequency to keep a population going goes down considerably. A migratory bigfoot scenario sounds good on the surface, until you realize that it puts them at greater risk of discovery and/or accident through unfamiliarity with changing landscapes, more road crossings, etc.

Except as I stated earlier, a stellar nose on the bear is not a good defense against something traveling 65 mph. But trichromatic vision is a great defense against having unpleasant collisions with brightly colored and lit automobiles.

We need look no further than our own species for thousands of tragic examples of intelligent creatures with trichromatic vision who get struck and killed by automobiles each year. This includes plentiful examples in rural areas too - we pursued this on BFF 1.0 many years ago.

And of course there are stories of people hitting them and they run off, or having near misses.

As also occurs with other wildlife, and humans. Some percentage of those collisions, however, we would expect to be fatal, with the body recovered and revealed to the world before the "Men in Black" get there to erase everyone's memory of the event.

As for people drawing in their personal experience as relevance to questions like these, here's one from me: I've spent a lot of time driving around the great state of Maine, and I've never hit a moose. I guess that means we can all ignore those moose crossing signs.

[Guest mariner]

I have stumbled in on this discussion rather late.

I see that there is a general opinion that bears are never road kill.

I live midway between two towns in the British Columbia interior, on 150 acres with the highway going right past the property. Bears can and do get killed by traffic - as do moose, deer and other wild animals. I have had black bears run across thre road right in front of my pickup - scooting over barbed wire fences on both sides of the road. I have had black bears, deer, moose,lynx, coyote, foxes and all sorts of other wild animals visit and walk through my property - including one grizzly that I am aware of.

My point is, I guess, road kill of every species is possible and bears are amongst the numbers. We had a dead black bear lay at the side of the road in Hixon, BC for two or three days before the highways department came and collected it ( the bear was just a couple of hundred yards from the nearest residence). Bigfoot - well that is not so easy to comment on.

Thanks

mariner

[Incorrigible1]

But any BF would put our best Beret to shame...and that's any BF.

The mythification of bigfoot continues.

[Guest]

Regarding BF road kill. I think it should be considered what kind of injuries a BF would get if hit by a car. Even humans can run with broken bones in extreme shock conditions.

As we know today about road accidents with humans, it just needs some relatively small space under the hood to reduce fatal human vs. car accidents. A car accident could for a BF, because of his general build be much less harming than for a quadruped. Its also seems to be much more likely to knock off a bear with a car because of the general lower position of its head. If the animal is injured to only live some minutes longer it will not get far if knocked off, but if it keeps on running it might likely get some hundred yards into the bush. Not to interesting for the road crew.

All in all I can see an potential explanation why BF gets at least out of the street workers threshold after being hit by a car. What are your suggestions?

[Guest Lesmore]

I have stumbled in on this discussion rather late.

I see that there is a general opinion that bears are never road kill.

I live midway between two towns in the British Columbia interior, on 150 acres with the highway going right past the property. Bears can and do get killed by traffic - as do moose, deer and other wild animals. I have had black bears run across thre road right in front of my pickup - scooting over barbed wire fences on both sides of the road. I have had black bears, deer, moose,lynx, coyote, foxes and all sorts of other wild animals visit and walk through my property - including one grizzly that I am aware of.

My point is, I guess, road kill of every species is possible and bears are amongst the numbers. We had a dead black bear lay at the side of the road in Hixon, BC for two or three days before the highways department came and collected it ( the bear was just a couple of hundred yards from the nearest residence). Bigfoot - well that is not so easy to comment on.

Thanks

mariner

In fact...doesn't BC or Alberta have highway wildlife crossings to allow bear, moose, etc...to cross highways and train tracks, without the prospect of becoming road kill. If I recall this came about because of the concern of Grizzly Bears being killed.

The wildlife crossings are built over the highways and have been effective.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Lesmore

[Guest Lesmore]

Regarding BF road kill. I think it should be considered what kind of injuries a BF would get if hit by a car. Even humans can run with broken bones in extreme shock conditions.

As we know today about road accidents with humans, it just needs some relatively small space under the hood to reduce fatal human vs. car accidents. A car accident could for a BF, because of his general build be much less harming than for a quadruped. Its also seems to be much more likely to knock off a bear with a car because of the general lower position of its head. If the animal is injured to only live some minutes longer it will not get far if knocked off, but if it keeps on running it might likely get some hundred yards into the bush. Not to interesting for the road crew.

All in all I can see an potential explanation why BF gets at least out of the street workers threshold after being hit by a car. What are your suggestions?

Chances are if a BF was hit by a Mack or a Peterbilt truck..towing a transport trailer or two... with a cowcatcher on front...it wouldn't be walking...or crawling away...it would be a very dead BF....by the side of the road.

80,000 lbs + @ 70 mph will do that....think it's one of those irrefutable laws of physics.

These highway tractors seem to hit everything but....BF. Hmmmnnn.

Les

Edited June 22, 2011 by Lesmore

[Guest mariner]

In fact...doesn't BC or Alberta have highway wildlife crossings to allow bear, moose, etc...to cross highways and train tracks, without the prospect of becoming road kill. If I recall this came about because of the concern of Grizzly Bears being killed.

The wildlife crossings are built over the highways and have been effective.

They have highway crossings but the ones (just a few) I am aware of are underground. There might be the odd overpass, but I certainly am not aware of them for wildlife.

There are thousands of miles of main highway in BC and Alberta, let alone the smaller roads. Up here once outside of the towns (the largest central BC town has a pop. of around 80,000) there are vast distances with nothing more than barbed wire fences along property lines - often there are no fences at all especially in areas of forested lands and the like.

I live 45 miles south of Prince George and am 4 miles south of the village Hixon on highway 97. Between Hixon and Prince George there are two culverts about 5ft or 6 ft diameter, that cross under the highway for local livestock use. I would not doubt for one minute, that all forms of wild life use these crossings. Generally speaking, there are no wild life crossings as such - just the few that seem to be well publicized in two or three areas only. BC and Alberta areas are huge and most of both provinces are wild and built up only in specific areas. Most wildlife crosses the highway - not under or over but across the tarmac.

Thanks

[norseman]

OK, but how much greater? You reach a point at which density is too low and the likelihood of individuals finding each other with enough frequency to keep a population going goes down considerably. A migratory bigfoot scenario sounds good on the surface, until you realize that it puts them at greater risk of discovery and/or accident through unfamiliarity with changing landscapes, more road crossings, etc.

Sas, how do Salmon find their way home to the very stream they were spawned in? How do Geese find their nesting grounds every year despite flying thousands and thousands of miles? The migration theory makes sense to me, because living in a evergreen forest during winter...........sucks. At least with a eastern forest, you can dig for acorns or walnuts or something.

We need look no further than our own species for thousands of tragic examples of intelligent creatures with trichromatic vision who get struck and killed by automobiles each year. This includes plentiful examples in rural areas too - we pursued this on BFF 1.0 many years ago.

Correct, but there are 300 million of us.......

And it has happened before, I cannot give specific links, but the Yakima story comes to mind in which the creature was very close to being road kill and another example down south in which the man thought he had hit a person in a fur suit and he got up and ran off, the police were called, blood hounds were brought in, etc. So there are reports of it happening.......we just don't have a body yet.

The law of probability is that it's going to happen at some point, but it doesn't bother me that it's a very very rare occurance.

As also occurs with other wildlife, and humans. Some percentage of those collisions, however, we would expect to be fatal, with the body recovered and revealed to the world before the "Men in Black" get there to erase everyone's memory of the event.

You know that I don't subscribe to the MIB stories.

As for people drawing in their personal experience as relevance to questions like these, here's one from me: I've spent a lot of time driving around the great state of Maine, and I've never hit a moose. I guess that means we can all ignore those moose crossing signs.

Not at all. But it should give you some sort pause to consider just how rare it is to even see a rare species, let alone a common one. And then add to that hitting one with your automobile.

Chances are I'm never hitting a:

1)Wolverine

2)Lynx

3)Woodland Caribou

4)Grizzly bear

with my automobile. Chances are that I'm never going to SEE any of those creatures in the wild. The best I can hope for is cutting some of their sign.

[Drew]

Chances are I'm never hitting a:

1)Wolverine

2)Lynx

3)Woodland Caribou

4)Grizzly bear

with my automobile. Chances are that I'm never going to SEE any of those creatures in the wild. The best I can hope for is cutting some of their sign.

Those animals don't typically show up in trailer parks, rest areas, driveways of semi-rural America, however I can find confirmation that all 4 have been killed by cars/trucks.

And taking it a step further, how many thousands or 10's of thousands of those creatures have been killed by hunters or trappers over the last 150 years?