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Creature Suit Analysis - Part 8 - Neck Hackles


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Guest longtabber PE
Correct me if Im wrong - but isnt the current skeptical theory (courtesy of Bob H) that the fur was actually from a dead horse, that Mr. Patterson skinned?

So, what manufacturers are you talking about Longtabber? Just curious.

Oh, by the way.. As long as that dead horse theory is batted around, its still something that must be answered to.

Melissa- Bill and i are currently engaged in technical discourse but i can tell you this- NEITHER of us are discussing a "horsehair" suit.

I think it was soarwing ( but may be wrong)- the horsehair theory is completely absurd and should be deleted.

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Guest Killain

While the horsehair theory is absurd, the claimant is the posterboy for the scoftic crowd. Bob H couldn't possibly not recognize the pelt of a horse, given his experience and associates. Whatever claim he made, whether it was first hand or repeating something he was told, it flies in the face of reasonableness. There are three kinds of lies.

K

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Guest Crowlogic
Melissa- Bill and i are currently engaged in technical discourse but i can tell you this- NEITHER of us are discussing a "horsehair" suit.

I think it was soarwing ( but may be wrong)- the horsehair theory is completely absurd and should be deleted.

Soarwing didn't invent the horsehair threoy. Bob H. stated that to the effect "The suit stunk. Roger had skinned out a dead red horse." For my money it is the major stumbling block that Bob H. wore the suit, if a suit was worn by anyone. But one thing Bill has confirmed by his efforts is that a suit with the qualities of the PGF creature film image would have needed to have been not a well done professional effort but an exceptionally well done professional effort. It raised the bar over everything that came before it and it seems that the bar has yet to be raised to those heights since.

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:evillaugh:

Ah, it wasnt soarwing - it was Bob H. I agree, the horsehide idea is probably not the case. But - that is the leading theory to those who think Patterson created a suit. Bob H gave them that idea, and they are still running with it.

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Q: We all seem to assume that the figure has a certain hair length (e.g. longish), but can anyone convince me (or anyone feeling like the Devil's advocate) that the hair is actually any given length (approximately)?

For that matter, can anyone even show that the figure has hair? Sure the light/color/reflection/refraction changes, but could it be, say, a velvet suit? (Let's ignore the testimonials for the moment.)

Not trying to be stubborn, so much as keep the conventional wisdom in check.

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Guest soarwing
Q: We all seem to assume that the figure has a certain hair length (e.g. longish), but can anyone convince me (or anyone feeling like the Devil's advocate) that the hair is actually any given length (approximately)?

For that matter, can anyone even show that the figure has hair? Sure the light/color/reflection/refraction changes, but could it be, say, a velvet suit? (Let's ignore the testimonials for the moment.)

Not trying to be stubborn, so much as keep the conventional wisdom in check.

- - -

I've never really thought the figure's hair was that long. Maybe an inch or two at most.

Because as you hint, it's not like there are flowing locks or shaggy sections visible.

I think that if the hair was longer, it would obscure more than it does and would be visibly "bouncing" around more.

Some of the frames are pretty clear and seem to show actual hair. Especially the frames where the line down the back/buttocks is reasonably sharp.

Interestingly, the "balding" or rubbed areas along the thing's flank and thigh have the same color as the face and palm of the left hand. A somewhat light greyish color as compared to the brown "hair". I think this would mean that velvet is unlikely.

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- - -

Some of the frames are pretty clear and seem to show actual hair.

Really!?! I don't think so. There is no where's near the resolution in the film to see hairs. But I agree that certain areas (like the back of the armpits) seem to show clumping and variably tapering hair-like patterns that scream "HAIR!"

Especially the frames where the line down the back/buttocks is reasonably sharp.

Not seeing how that shows hair.

Interestingly, the "balding" or rubbed areas along the thing's flank and thigh have the same color as the face and palm of the left hand. A somewhat light greyish color as compared to the brown "hair".

Those would be assumptions. Reasonable ones maybe, but assumptions still (in my opinion). All we really see are different colored (or shaded) areas.

I think this would mean that velvet is unlikely.

I was of course joking but trying to make a point with a familiar material that shows similar variation.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that the figure doesn't have hair. I'm just wondering if/how any of us could "prove" it with the evidence at hand. That's all.

-A

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Guest longtabber PE

I must say this- Bill and I have had a long telephone conversation tonight

I Freely admit- I stand in total awe at this mans knowledge and experience. Bill is a master at his craft and let no one fool you.

I have "enlightened" Bill on a few things and he has "sent me to school" on some other things.

This mans knowledge and experience cannot be denied by any sane human.

He will post his commentary as will I.

This is my take from this on out ( Bill himself can fill in the gaps)

The materials were factually available ( he has asked me offline for specifics and I will do my best to comply with 40 yr old records)

Bill also acknowledged that Hollywood wasnt aware of the full capability of the textile industry

( make no mistake- Bill and i traded punches- he stood his ground as did I)

Bill clued me into Hollywood and what it takes to be an FX guy.

Bill made it crystal clear that this goes well beyond "availibility" of raw materials but ends with the capability of the one making the suit..

Bill "sent me to school" on suits tonight- this master of his craft not only educated me but enlightened me.

Here are our mutual take aways:

The materials were available- thats a fact

IF Patterson made this suit- he was the luckiest SOB on earth

There is nothing in the PGF that "screams" fake

Bills evaluation ( as well as mine) is subjective and pending new info.

Bill is the man

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Guest soarwing
Really!?! I don't think so. There is no where's near the resolution in the film to see hairs. But I agree that certain areas (like the back of the armpits) seem to show clumping and variably tapering hair-like patterns that scream "HAIR!"

Not seeing how that shows hair.

Those would be assumptions. Reasonable ones maybe, but assumptions still (in my opinion). All we really see are different colored (or shaded) areas.

I was of course joking but trying to make a point with a familiar material that shows similar variation.

Again, I'm not trying to argue that the figure doesn't have hair. I'm just wondering if/how any of us could "prove" it with the evidence at hand. That's all.

-A

I'm not arguing that you can see individual hairs on the PGF subject. I can't see individual hairs on a dog from 20 feet away.

Just that it SEEMS to show actual hair.

And of course, I can't prove that it didn't have feathers, let alone hair.

With the evidence at hand.

I must say this- Bill and I have had a long telephone conversation tonight

I Freely admit- I stand in total awe at this mans knowledge and experience. Bill is a master at his craft and let no one fool you.

I have "enlightened" Bill on a few things and he has "sent me to school" on some other things.

This mans knowledge and experience cannot be denied by any sane human.

He will post his commentary as will I.

This is my take from this on out ( Bill himself can fill in the gaps)

The materials were factually available ( he has asked me offline for specifics and I will do my best to comply with 40 yr old records)

Bill also acknowledged that Hollywood wasnt aware of the full capability of the textile industry

( make no mistake- Bill and i traded punches- he stood his ground as did I)

Bill clued me into Hollywood and what it takes to be an FX guy.

Bill made it crystal clear that this goes well beyond "availibility" of raw materials but ends with the capability of the one making the suit..

Bill "sent me to school" on suits tonight- this master of his craft not only educated me but enlightened me.

Here are our mutual take aways:

The materials were available- thats a fact

IF Patterson made this suit- he was the luckiest SOB on earth

There is nothing in the PGF that "screams" fake

Bills evaluation ( as well as mine) is subjective and pending new info.

Bill is the man

- - -

Great info!

Hopefully there will be more updates on your communications/knowledge?

I'm insanely interested in what you guys have to say.

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Soarwing:

I just sent longtabber my draft of my notes on the phone conference for his review, so we can check that I didn't misintrepret anything he said (a professional courtesy). The notes will be posted after I hear back from him.

But actually, we spent most of the time gossiping about what a "Hottie" Melissa is.

I think Patty was mentioned too, somewhere along the way.

:evillaugh:

Bill

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Guest OklahomaSquatch
Soarwing:

I just sent longtabber my draft of my notes on the phone conference for his review, so we can check that I didn't misintrepret anything he said (a professional courtesy). The notes will be posted after I hear back from him.

But actually, we spent most of the time gossiping about what a "Hottie" Melissa is.

I think Patty was mentioned too, somewhere along the way.

;)

Bill

And thus begins another 40 year old debate. :evillaugh:

Oh come on, it was there! I had to. I'll go back to my corner now.

Matt K.

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