When To Shoot Or When To Run Or Even Hide?

[Guest tracker]

Okay this could have been called fight or flee or crossing the line or something like that. Anyways I thought it would be an interesting thread for discussing being scared or startled as well as being threatened. Sure we all say usually the same things, "if it was attacking" or if we felt endangered etc.

But what about people just being very scared of something much larger and stronger than they are (smell factor as well). Or combine that with it being pitch dark and you can't see it well. So they panic without real cause or start shooting away at a dark shape making some noises? So how many encounter reports are just witnesses over reacting?

Do we each know our limits before heading into the woods and trying to come into contact with the sometimes scary big guys? Have you done anything else like this before? How do you know you won't panic unnecessarily even if your a deer hunter, policeman or scientist? When was the last time you tested yourself or have been tested so you know you won't have a cardiac arrest?

Running into them is not like anything else. What would be the closest experience that you have had that could prepare you for an encounter? Are you truly ready mind and body?

Realistically what do you think it would it take for you to open fire on them? Or to start running back to your vehicle, campsite or to try and find a safe place to hide? We all talk big on the trip up. But once it gets dark and you start hearing and smelling or maybe start seeing something strange and large watching you. Thats when courage has a way of dissappearing faster that jerky and beer and panic may take it's place.

Some encounters can leave a very bad after effect even the more timid ones. It depends on the person and what happens. So if your a faint of heart type, inexperienced, alone or maybe just unprepared. Maybe don't tree knock at night or go looking for them with courage backed up by a rifle or booze.

tracker.

Edited January 14, 2011 by tracker

[Guest]

NEVER RUN. EVER.

Always a bad move dude. No matter who or what. Just casual like is it. Just Caz.

I'm packing to protect myself from kitties mostly, and very strange men in the middle of no where wearing sheets for a hat.

I'm not going to fire on the big guy unless he's got my partner in a death grip and even then I plan on saying "put him down." Words like. You never know.

I got panic down pat.

I've been in enough real life panic inducing situations to know that I'm not a "freezer" or a "thrasher" or a "cardiac arrester".

One example is that a few years ago I was trapped in a working freezer trailer by a faulty roll up door and I remember wanting to panic and thinking "okay, you can always panic later, find a way out." The door fell so fast and hard the strap flipped under, and I found it, and I was out. It seems like a design flaw that those doors aren't operable from the inside...

I took pics in the middle of what I think was probably a biggie putting the panic in me. I talked about it a bit in the old forums. But the bottom line is...I may be afraid..but I seem to be able to function.

[Guest FuriousGeorge]

I definitely would never want to go hunting for one and I am a hunter. But if one of them chucks a pine cone at me, it's on.

[Guest Knuck]

If a person is so scared that they want to run, hide, or shoot blindly at "shapes" in the dark, first, they don't need to be in the woods to begin with. Second, they have no business with a firearm.

Running from most if not all apex predators will trigger their chase reaction. Just where the H would you hide? Unless there is a huge rock formation with many crevices and holes, I don't think foliage is going to conceal you(especially if sasses can see that well in the dark). But firing a weapon at vague shapes or movements in the dark, well, let's just say that's obviously a BIG firearms no-no. JMO-Knuck

[Guest squatchrider]

I'm with Knuck on this one. If your fear impulse is to shoot at large unknown things in the dark DO NOT go into the woods at night with a firearm. No joke, I have relatives that are in the Sasquatch range as far as height and though not as big as Sasquatch they are some REALLY big guys. I'd hate for you to shoot one of my cousins who was out doing a little late night recon just because he was a very large shape heading toward you in the dark.

I guess my question on this topic is how do you train yourself to stand your ground in the possible instance of meeting a Sasquatch in the woods? I'd like to think that my fascination and awe would override my fear but I've never run into something over 7 foot tall, massive and hairy while walking in the woods. I've had to calmly back away from some coyotes and the occasional bison in the Black Hills of South Dakota but my brain instantly recognized those creatures and didn't have to do as much processing. I guess in my defense the only time I was "stalked/shadowed" while walking at night in the Black Hills I did have the mental clarity to not run. I was walking down a road at night in Custer State Park, South Dakota and realize that something was walking just inside the trees off to my left. Every time I stopped it stopped and then when I started again it would start. I know this wasn't my mind playing tricks on me because I was walking on an asphault road and the steps I was hearing were clearly going thru dry grass and pine needles. I honestly do not know what was in the trees but it was a large animal cougar? Sasquatch? Anyway how it relates to this topic is that I didn't run. I really would like to know though if there any exercises people know of to prepare myself for standing my ground in the woods if I run into something large and hairy face to face?

[Guest]

No weapon no booze. Patience, quiet. Wait. Noises in the night. If you are sitting silently long term, hours, I think that decreases the sharp loud deafening exhilarated defensive vocalizations. I want that too, but perhaps better suited to get it from a vehicle. I just sit out in the open

(bait ? lol) and record. Alone. During times I had someone else with, it was always someone on the same page who I knew well who does not panic. Never had the inclination to run but sometimes if I feel like a cat may have come in I move to my vehicle. Usually I just sit that out though. Never had an incident such as a defensive growl or other voc that suggested defense or warning from the visitor(s).

[Guest]

Squatchrider, I had a friend who was just coming from Yellowstone with his family (the week of the grizzly attacks). He camped at Custer. In the night on the north end, he was outside his tent taking a whizz.. he told me no more than fifteen steps away fr tent. Immediately he got a woodknock.

His first reaction was, ****. Somebody is cutting wood and they are going to see me. Finally common sense set in. He realized almost immediately that he was in the dark so visual would not be likely. Then he thought, wait, that is a woodknock. He finished his job, zipped his pants (I presume he did lol) replied Damned sasquatches. Then went to bed. It was 3 AM. He did NOT tell his family until winter. At the time, they were still jumpy from the grizzly attack stories circulating from Ystone.

SR: Regarding prep for a one on one with a large sasquatch: I do not know of anything to prep with. Just know its not a great idea to stare into their eyes so look off to the side. Smiles with teeth showing on your part probably not the wisest choice either.. but others have done these things and nothing was done. For me, I hope I have an apple in my pocket, I would pop that out and make it look especially like I was enjoying it. I have friends that have had experiences and although ea account was different, it seems when they looked away it was often gone. Just stand your ground, if you turn and walk off, you may or may not be followed. If you are not threatening, I think its just a matter of curiousity. Chances are it will all be over so fast that you wont have that much time to deal with it. Regarding what your body does that is a hard one.. many people freak out and then later on spend a lot of time trying to repeat the experience. Others, never go into the woods again. Reviewing all the reports you can, looking at all the visuals you can might help. I have a friend who was really hoping for a good observation of one. Took five years in a special place, but that wish was granted. No expression, casual 30 sec observation and no movement. Never saw it again. So you never know.

Edited January 14, 2011 by treeknocker

[Guest tracker]

I'm with Knuck on this one. If your fear impulse is to shoot at large unknown things in the dark DO NOT go into the woods at night with a firearm. No joke, I have relatives that are in the Sasquatch range as far as height and though not as big as Sasquatch they are some REALLY big guys. I'd hate for you to shoot one of my cousins who was out doing a little late night recon just because he was a very large shape heading toward you in the dark.

I guess my question on this topic is how do you train yourself to stand your ground in the possible instance of meeting a Sasquatch in the woods? I'd like to think that my fascination and awe would override my fear but I've never run into something over 7 foot tall, massive and hairy while walking in the woods. I've had to calmly back away from some coyotes and the occasional bison in the Black Hills of South Dakota but my brain instantly recognized those creatures and didn't have to do as much processing. I guess in my defense the only time I was "stalked/shadowed" while walking at night in the Black Hills I did have the mental clarity to not run. I was walking down a road at night in Custer State Park, South Dakota and realize that something was walking just inside the trees off to my left. Every time I stopped it stopped and then when I started again it would start. I know this wasn't my mind playing tricks on me because I was walking on an asphault road and the steps I was hearing were clearly going thru dry grass and pine needles. I honestly do not know what was in the trees but it was a large animal cougar? Sasquatch? Anyway how it relates to this topic is that I didn't run. I really would like to know though if there any exercises people know of to prepare myself for standing my ground in the woods if I run into something large and hairy face to face?

Hey good questions, others can help me here?. Besides facing down a brown or a bull moose in rut. I suggest starting with night walks in your area. get use to the sounds and the pitch dark away from the lights in town. then start walking into the woods at night or alone during the day. It's hard to know everyones current threshold or experience level. so just build it up slowly with adventures where animals are located.

But if your affraid to approach big dogs or raccoons on the back deck then maybe be satisfied with staying in camp. until you over come your fears. There are worse creatures out there than running into the big guys but not many of us experience them or want to.

As far as health goes make sure you can handle a good scare or are fit enough to save your self in different situations. I know of a lot of big and small people that can't run from the parking lot into the store with out pausing for breath. So if your in that kind of condition don't wander too far from camp. And don't be a handycap for you fellow hikers, expecting them to be able to carry you to safety.

Edited January 14, 2011 by tracker

[Huntster]

Do we each know our limits before heading into the woods and trying to come into contact with the sometimes scary big guys? Have you done anything else like this before? How do you know you won't panic unnecessarily even if your a deer hunter, policeman or scientist? When was the last time you tested yourself or have been tested so you know you won't have a cardiac arrest?

Last September when I went out on a solo caribou hunt in the Watana Hills.

Running into them is not like anything else. What would be the closest experience that you have had that could prepare you for an encounter? Are you truly ready mind and body?

The last time I was actually stalked by a bear was quite a while ago. I think it was in the early 1990's. It went well. I ended up fine, the bear was not shot, and my dog was fine as well.

Realistically what do you think it would it take for you to open fire on them?

Aggression.

Or to start running back to your vehicle, campsite or to try and find a safe place to hide?

There is no "hiding". Retreating to a good defensive position is always wise.

We all talk big on the trip up. But once it gets dark and you start hearing and smelling or maybe start seeing something strange and large watching you. Thats when courage has a way of dissappearing faster that jerky and beer and panic may take it's place.

"Courage" is simply overcoming fear, which we all have. My greatest fear in the wilds is not even related to aggressive animals. It's the weather or elements. In Alaska, that's what kills the vast majority of outdoor enthusiasts.

But my ultimate wildlife fear is an aggressive brown bear at night when I'm zipped up in my sleeping bag. Thankfully, it has never happened to me.

[Guest tracker]

Even a black bear dragging you out of your tent is bad enough but a big brown. In NA hunting brown bear on the ground without dogs might be the closest experience you can have to a Sasq encounter?

[Huntster]

Even a black bear dragging you out of your tent is bad enough but a big brown.

Any decent handgun trumps a black bear. Even a big one.

But you have to have the attitude.

Brown bears differ. They're tough. You have to have the handgun and the attitude.

In NA hunting brown bear on the ground without dogs might be the closest experience you can have to a Sasq encounter?

Not really. Actually hunting a brown bear is a whole lot different than being stalked by a brown bear. As far as I'm concerned, once you have the first clue that he's stalking you, you should start stalking him.

That makes the difference.

Ditto other humans, hominids, higher primates, etc..............

[WV FOOTER]

I agree that running is a bad decision. I am always packing a glock 10mm, which will stop a lot of game, even bears. Also, It's hard to shoot anything if you are running from it. I'm not looking to shoot anything, just being prepared. The witness I talked to who seen a bigfoot told me that I better have a big gun, cause what he saw, it would take more than 1 shot to bring it down. Statements like that brings the intimidation factor into play. But,to see a bigfoot would be worth any risk. I always have some Jack Links with me for a close encounter.

[Guest]

I can certainly relate to this topic Tracker. Note my sig line.

As I've stated in other threads, I had to face one down over 5 years ago. I had been deer hunting and had my German Shepherd dog with me. I had been hunting for the whole day and this was the last hunt. We had walked into a clearcut to just sit and watch the edges. Its right when I stood up to begin walking back to my truck with what light remained, that he began his crash through the timber from about 300 yds off. He was on a beeline for my exit and hearing how fast he was moving, there was no way I could beat him. Talk about being seriously scared, the reality of having few options is what got me focused on what I had to do. Actually I had two other options, one would be to begin shooting at him as soon as I could, and the other would be to stay in the clearcut until he left. But I knew it would be completely dark soon. The reality of that hit me fast, I'd probably have a heart attack from panic attack if he didn't leave. Being there after dark and have others show up, was not a proposition I wanted to consider any further. All I had was a measly mini-mag flashlight too, so staying in the clearcut just wasn't going to happen. It wasn't an option. I also abandoned the idea of shooting him regardless of how threatening he sounded in his approach. A 30-30 shot in his direction would seal my fate too. I've had several encounters before this one so I had a good idea of what I was dealing with, none quite as in-your-face as this one however. But I knew of their intelligence level plus I saw them more as a 'people' with self control instead of just an animal that lives by instinct.

As scared as I was, I found that place inside to bring me needed focus and thus to just bury the fear. Absolutely, the fear had to just be put away as a non-factor. I knew what I had to do. I knew he was standing along the only trail I could take. So with a short prayer and a few promises, assessing my weapons status, prepping my dog's lead, I began approaching him from a few hundred feet. I had a small 9mm as well that I just made sure was accessible. I cocked my rifle and positioned it for a single hand shot with my finger on the trigger. At about 60', I could begin to hear him breathing but at 40' I could see him. At that point I began speaking calmly to him. My dog begins to growl as well, but she listened to me when I told her no. Instead of walking on the far left side of the trail from him, I instead walked down the middle, which brought me about 6' closer to him. I did this because I didn't know if a second one was waiting there in the brush on the left. As I got closer, I'm kinda walking sideways because I have my rifle held up with one arm and my finger on the trigger pointed at body mass. And as I've stated many times, that rifle felt like it was about 6 inches long. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to have to shoot, because I know it would have been the last thing I ever did.

But he just stood there, listening to me, turning his body with us as we passed. He didn't follow but once we passed, my dog sure let me know she wanted to go home. She was just as scared as I was but she trusted me and we made our way past. I remember looking back a few times as we passed just to make sure he wasn't moving in on top of us, but the coast was clear. When you get that close to a potential confrontation situation, it puts things in a whole different perspective. You truly find out what your made of too. Frankly, anyone who would claim to shoot under those circumstances, really don't know what they are talking about. You can't imagine the thoughts being processed.

After we passed and my dog fought for who would make it to the truck first, yeah I just wanted to get out of there too. I don't think I've ever been so scared in my life. Once I got home an hour away, it really hit me and I didn't want to ever go outside again. Nor did I ever want to go hunting again. The fear of going outside diminished in a day or two. I was able to deal with the situation of hunting in about a week and just decided I would never go back there again. I couldn't not hunt again so that seemed to be the easy solution. Just avoid the place right? Never mind that there are bigfoot everywhere, I didn't need to think about that. lol

After a few years I had to deal with this situation of mine however. Why do I have these encounters? Well I'm still trying to figure that out. You guys who don't think it happens to some people, well you don't know but it does. I think many an opportunity to learn from those who have had more encounters then I, has been squandered just for the sake of making fun of these people. As for me, its not like I can go find one any time I want, its very random and rare, but obviously its more then most people experience.

Anyway, I eventually returned to that spot to try and figure it out. As I've relayed before as well, they were there when I returned as I was honored with some major howls from one and whistles from a second. I do think the one that howled is the same one I faced a few years before. I do wonder if he knew it was me? I don't know, I think so based on that interaction and other visits afterwards, but I haven't seen him in good light either.

My story aside, my advice is, remain calm. Don't intend to harm them, they can pick up on your intentions easily. Don't be afraid to talk to them. Not that they necessarily understand everything, but minimally I do think they pick up on your intentions from your tone. I am very open to the idea that they do understand however. I truly wish I didn't have my dog with me that time and that there was a little more light remaining, because I would have taken the next step in trying to show friendship. That wasn't in the cards however. In a way I hope that the experience is meant to provide me with what I need for the next time. If that ever happens of course. I just hope its a friendly one.

[Guest]

Pragmatic Theorist,

I agree with you. I also had a 30-30 rifle during my encounter and I was also deer hunting. It would not have made a dent in that creature and like you said, I would have been dead if I fired.

[Guest tracker]

PT I had one kinda like that except I didn't get cut off. I don't carry a firearm if you shoot at one your just asking for trouble. I believe they are as affraid of us as we are of them. So they strut around to show dominence because it's maybe how they handle fear?

They can do a good psych job on witnesses for sure, Your scared, perplexed, and maybe nauseated all at the same time, It's unlike meeting any other wild creature. So maybe running into a grizzly one at a hundred feet with only pepper spray then. You can never really be prepared for the first encounter. All you can do is build up your courage and train your self body and mind to be steady when scared.