Albert Ostman

[Guest]

I got to thinking that it might be nice to link to the classics for some of the newer members or those who may wish to refresh their memory of them.

This link includes The Ostman Story, William Roe, Elkanah Walker, Ruby Creek, Bauman, Muchalat Harry and Ape Canyon. Please enjoy...

http://www.bigfooten...cs/classics.htm

[Guest wudewasa]

Nicotene poisoning via snuff-

1984 doc- http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/vha21b00/pdf;jsessionid=5A5080A8CA090608B0500D295818DAAB.tobacco03

nicotine levels in snuff compared to cigarettes- http://quitsmoking.about.com/b/2003/12/15/snuff-gives-a-heavier-hit-of-nicotine-than-cigarettes.htm

interesting abstract- http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/115/8/600.extract

a case study- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20560789

[Guest BFSleuth]

I also think the photos in the other thread were doctored regarding Mt. Baker and Vancouver because I see Mt. Baker from my house every day and live within 40 miles of Vancouver and have been all around the mountains near Vancouver and even the highest buildings in Vancouver and have NEVER seen Mt. Baker look like that!

Which photo(s) are you talking about?

[BobbyO]

The one's in here BFS.

[Guest BFSleuth]

Thanks for posting the link, BobbyO. For some reason I couldn't find the thread when I searched last night.

I think transformer may be looking at the pictures, which were all taken with long telephoto lenses, and thinking to himself that Mt. Baker never looked that close. That's true, if you are comparing the pictures to looking at the mountain with your naked eye. However, if you look at some of the posts I made on the previous Ostman thread, the volcanoes up and down the Cascade range are very massive. If you use Google Earth and try to look at potential views from ridge tops where Ostman may have seen Mt. Baker it is evident that it is visible from a number of locations. As I noted, these mountains can be seen from well over 100 miles away easily. Once you know what a particular mountain looks like it is hard to mistake it for anything but that mountain. Mt. Baker is a distinctive shape and is visible from a number of ridge tops in the area Ostman indicated he came out.

[Guest vilnoori]

I agree with Tranformer, because I too live in the area (I live farther down the valley now but in the past lived in Langley, Coquitlam, New West, and Burnaby and worked in and around Vancouver, driving in every day). You can see Mt. Baker at a distance from certain places in the valley, including near my house, and it does not loom over the landscape. It peeks over the top of the southern mountain range in this area, depending on your position. Take a look at Google Earth and use the tilt function to get a ground view of it.

aj, sounds like you have a field trip in mind. If you climb to the top of a mountain at the head of Toba do take a look South and tell us if you can see Baker. Enquiring minds want to know.

I like the Ostman story, in fact I like it better than the PGF movie. It is very detailed and actually is much more what I would expect of an early homin encounter with modern humans.

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

I dip as well, and I agree that the majority of snuff at that time was probably dry, compared to what we have today. The one thing that I found about the snuff was that the animal licked the can, as if it liked the taste. I do not see how that's possible at all, especially considering that back then they probably didn't even add any scents to it...

I just cannot imagine it tasting too good, even though there was not much in the can he was supposedly given. Surely any animal would only eat something if it knew it could, or the item smelled good. Given that it saw Ostman put the snuff in his mouth, it may have thought it was edible...who knows.

Although the story may sound far-fetched, it is my opinion that since sasquatch exist, and no one can tell me any differently on that point, situations such as these, however outstanding, are bound to statistically occur throughout time. There are many things about the Ostman story that make it ring true imo, although I will concede that it could be entirely fabricated. But, if that is the case, he must have had extensive knowledge of sasquatch prior to fabricating the story. Did he gain anything from telling his story? He seems to me to have been a solitary man, someone who avoids much attention. But maybe he thought this story needed to be told, and the best time would have been the years that he came forward, when more people were starting to open up to the subject.

Either way, it is a good story. I have often wondered if there would be anything left of his camp, and the likelihood that anything would still be there, and whether any other humans have found it throughout the years, not knowing its significance. If his homemade pic was still stuck in that tree, the find would be incredible. Since I do not live anywhere near that area, I couldn't even thinking about attempting something of that magnitude. I have trouble in the bush here in Texas, and I wouldn't want to add snow and ice on top of that, lol.

My question to someone who is experienced in the area...Given Ostman's description, do you think tracing his initial route to his final campsite before abduction would be possible? From what he said about deer trails, etc, I do not think the area would be similar enough to find the same campsite, but I'm not sure. I would bet someone could easily put themselves in the vicinity, but that doesn't really help.

[Guest BFSleuth]

Some Native American tribes would give gifts of tobacco to BF. If you google "BFRO tobacco" there are a number of sighting reports on or near tobacco fields. I think BF likely crave the nicotine and taste just as humans do.

[BobbyO]

I agree with Tranformer, because...............

Then all of these must be doctored too Vil ?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=vancouver+mount+baker&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=Xs-QT8TfMsHirAeB24GkBQ&biw=1366&bih=667&sei=YM-QT8akOMjyrQeNwej3BA

[Guest ajciani]

aj, sounds like you have a field trip in mind. If you climb to the top of a mountain at the head of Toba do take a look South and tell us if you can see Baker.

In Ostman's account, he was standing on a ridge that was above Salmon Inlet when he saw Mt. Baker. This is a lot closer to Vancouver than Toba Inlet. Baker should probably be visible from this ridge near Squamish.

I live in Illinois, and the closest I will be getting to Vancouver this year is Teton Village, WY.

My question to someone who is experienced in the area...Given Ostman's description, do you think tracing his initial route to his final campsite before abduction would be possible? From what he said about deer trails, etc, I do not think the area would be similar enough to find the same campsite, but I'm not sure. I would bet someone could easily put themselves in the vicinity, but that doesn't really help.

My experience with game trails is that they are generally static. Much of the area of Ostman's story has remained undeveloped, but possibly some of it has been logged, especially around Salmon Inlet and Clowhorn Lake.

Just using Google Maps, you can approximately follow where Ostman may have gone before his abduction. If you follow from the north side at the head of Toba Inlet, there is a pass in the ridge which goes up to a 'T' junction. Going west will take you to another inlet, and going north-east will take you deeper in, just as Ostman described. I think he went to the top of this valley, but did not turn east toward the Brem River. At least, there is no mention of him following a river.

The tail end of Ostman's journey can be backtracked. He came out at Salmon Inlet (or more likely Clowhorn Lake). On the north side there is a ridge, and on the other side of that ridge from Phantom Lake, there is a valley which runs mostly south, but takes a dog leg to the west. This is most likely the valley which Ostman found himself running down. For the location of his imprisonment, I think it could be near Rugged Lake or the coordinates I provided earlier. I think Rugged Lake would be too far though. About 4 miles up from the dog leg, there is a valley which runs east-west, and there are several ravines with run southeast-northwest, which might fit better with what Ostman said.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Why would the Sasquatch decide to take him though? Do you think it wanted to help?

[Guest BFSleuth]

I think Ostman was under the impression the male took him home as either a pet or perhaps to become "interested" in his daughter. Wasn't the female upset when he brought him home? "What in the world did you bring home now!!!????"

They aren't that different from us...

[BobbyO]

It's this subjective stuff where the possible exaggerations and inaccuracies probably are in my opinion.

I don't know as i wasn't there of course but from what i've read in the various accounts written, he didn't actually know why he was " taken ", he just gave us all his opinion as to why he was taken.

[Guest Transformer]

Thanks for posting the link, BobbyO. For some reason I couldn't find the thread when I searched last night.

I think transformer may be looking at the pictures, which were all taken with long telephoto lenses, and thinking to himself that Mt. Baker never looked that close. That's true, if you are comparing the pictures to looking at the mountain with your naked eye. However, if you look at some of the posts I made on the previous Ostman thread, the volcanoes up and down the Cascade range are very massive. If you use Google Earth and try to look at potential views from ridge tops where Ostman may have seen Mt. Baker it is evident that it is visible from a number of locations. As I noted, these mountains can be seen from well over 100 miles away easily. Once you know what a particular mountain looks like it is hard to mistake it for anything but that mountain. Mt. Baker is a distinctive shape and is visible from a number of ridge tops in the area Ostman indicated he came out.

Have you tried to look at a mountain through mountains in between while allowing for the curvature of the earth? Google earth does not show the effect of the curvature of the earth. What about my points about Ostman knowing the area intimately from his occupation and time spent in the area yet trying to excuse his errors by trying to figure out where he "could have been" instead of where he claims to have been?

[Guest BFSleuth]

If I understand your points, Transformer:

- Regarding trying to "look at a mountain through mountains in between while allowing for the curvature of the earth"... not sure exactly what you mean here, but frequently throughout the Cascades, for example, you will be able to get "peek-a-boo" views of prominent (tall) mountains that are easy to identify. Earth curvature doesn't really come to bear with these distances of about 125 miles or less. If you are high on a ridge or smaller mountain and have a gap between other mountains, yes it is easy to see and identify major peaks such as Mt. Baker from great distances.

- Regarding your second point, if I understand correctly, I think that trying to discount Ostman's story by saying it is impossible to see Mt. Baker from the possible area of his escape is not workable. Mt. Baker is visible from many areas within area of concern.

I've read through his story a few times trying to determine exactly where he was. In particular I'm trying to identify the hanging canyon with the narrow gap where he was held captive, and I've tried working it out going backwards from his point of exit. I can't say I've been successful in working it out, but if I do I would certainly like to go in there to see it in person.